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Thread: New Sunbeam Torino triple thermoblock

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    New Sunbeam Torino triple thermoblock

    I've been looking for an alternative to the Breville Dual Boiler for some time and was hoping that Sunbeam was going to come out with something and it looks like I've not been disappointed.

    It's called the Torino and on the face of it, it certainly looks to be an excellent machine.

    Heavy on the Italian styling with a manual E61 styled group head. It's not actually an E61 as in the photo you can see the standard Sunbeam collar poking out from underneath but it looks the part and the lever appears to be functional.
    How the lever integrates with the standard 1 and 2 cup programmable buttons I'm not sure. Perhaps the lever is for manual control and the buttons override it.
    This would indicate that the lever is not operating any kind of cam or valves but is most likely just moving a spring and a switch.
    Still a cool feature.

    Sunbeam are sticking with thermoblock technology as it has served them well over the years. This machine has 3 thermoblocks. One for brew, one for steam and one for hot water I assume. Hopefully the hot water thermoblock can be utilised in the steam circuit to provide more powerful steam which has always been a downside of the thermoblock system.

    Also inside is PID temperature control, an LCD display with a shot clock and a proper brew pressure gauge, a definite improvement over the electronic gauges in the EM7000.

    The grinder, whilst lacking on specification at this time, looks impressive.
    The only specs I have are that it is belt driven and has LED lighting. I assume it utilises the same burrs and burr carriers as the EM0500 however if they've upgraded them to something a bit more solid and reliable that can only be an improvement.

    RRP is $2000 and they're due in stores late October/early November. I will probably get one and do a tear down to answer some questions.

    20151008_090808.jpg20151008_092919.jpg

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    Senior Member LeroyC's Avatar
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    Hmmmm. Interesting.

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    Thanks Noidle - interesting.

    I assume the $2k RRP is without the grinder? I'm sure it will be available for much less than $2k but you would think even a $1.5k thermoblock machine is going to struggle to get much market share?
    I'm not knocking thermoblock technology per se but you know what 'snobs are like.
    Maybe they're not meant to sell in big volumes but to give some referred further credibility to the EM7000?

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    Looks interesting and nicer than the Breville. I will be interested how the thermoblocks perform against the breville and similar priced Italian machines.

    A few styling features, mainly the gauge and digital display (lcd replicating pressure dial for symmetry) remind me of my Faema Carisma S1.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WantRancilio10 View Post
    I assume the $2k RRP is without the grinder? I'm sure it will be available for much less than $2k but you would think even a $1.5k thermoblock machine is going to struggle to get much market share?
    $2000 is for the bundle. The bundle model number is PU8000, the machine will most likely be model no. EM8000. There isn't a retail price listed for just the machine at this time.
    The pricing that I have been given, as a service agent, is around the $1.5k mark which puts it right with the Dual Boiler.

    The EM7000 went down in price rapidly at retailers, much faster than the EM6910 did, so the same thing may happen with this machine. The reputation of the Dual Boiler is good so Sunbeam may have to drop prices to get sales over it.
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    I would hope that one of those 3 Thermoblocks is "embedded" in that group head and controlled by the PID

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    From the looks of it, the grinder might be just a slimmed down version of their precision coffee grinder - or maybe between the Cafe Series and the Precision?

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    Not sure, it's more or less the same as the Precision except with a different colour scheme.
    That may well be the only significant difference.

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    This machine is now out in the wild, has anyone got their hands on one yet?

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    New Sunbeam Torino triple thermoblock

    I just had a read of the manual. Looks like it's doing timed volumetric via control buttons, or manual via an e61esque lever. Odd but strangely nice. 11 bar being labelled as ideal brewing pressure though isn't all that nice to see in their diagrams... Curious cleaning cycle too. Fully automatic. Once every 3 months..

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    They must teach bad habits to create break downs which lead to nasty surprises when out of warranty, which lead to more sales.

    Or they just don't know any better?

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    I'm either buying one of these or a postie bike, at the moment i'm going for the bike.
    Might wait a bit until the price comes down and see what Sunbeam can do for me.

    I have asked to be sent the technical detail once the design and engineer side of Sunbeam release it to the Sunbeam service side. This should answer some questions about how much has really changed internally from the EM7000.

    Edit: Just perused the manual, I particularly liked the quote:

    "Brass collar is durable and ideal for frequent use."

    Yeah i bet........
    Last edited by noidle22; 9th November 2015 at 02:59 PM. Reason: more info
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    Anyone seen the machine for sale without grinder? If so how much $ was it?

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    I'm curious where they've put the 3rd thermoblock, whether it's for the steam or the brew, or if it's in line with both.

    Also it says 'stainless steel and cast metal' so I reckon it's still mostly aluminium.

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    Quote Originally Posted by noidle22 View Post
    I'm either buying one of these or a postie bike
    Where does the portafilter go on a postie bike? Dual boiler or HX postie?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Talk_Coffee View Post
    Where does the portafilter go on a postie bike? Dual boiler or HX postie?
    Triple thermoblock postie. It's the most stable postie.

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    Quote Originally Posted by blend52 View Post
    I would hope that one of those 3 Thermoblocks is "embedded" in that group head and controlled by the PID
    I think this is the most likely option. No real advantage to two thermoblocks in the steam or coffee circuit unless one of them is used as some sort of preheat circuit.

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    With the postie bike, the steam comes out of your ears while peddling up hill.

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    I used a Torino today for the first time

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    Quote Originally Posted by Melbroaster View Post
    I used a Torino today for the first time
    Impressions?

    Also, this happened so my Torino is a ways off yet.

    Dimal, saroadie, KizZ84 and 1 others like this.

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    They have gone to quite a bit of trouble to make it look like an e61 without actually installing a real e61 group. Cant imagine the pricing is going to stay at the $2,000 level. To use it, it feels like a 6910 that has been dressed up in a shiny metal case.

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    $2000 - ouch! Even if grinder included.

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    Quote Originally Posted by readeral View Post
    $2000 - ouch! Even if grinder included.
    $2k for a thermoblock appliance? Dreamin' regardless of how they make it look. It will still be worth nothing once it's walked out of Hardly Normals...
    Gavisconi007 and KizZ84 like this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Talk_Coffee View Post
    $2k for a thermoblock appliance? Dreamin' regardless of how they make it look. It will still be worth nothing once it's walked out of Hardly Normals...

    Is is it worth anything even before it leaves Hardly Normals????��
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    Shame they were greedy re pricing, at that price point it just looks silly. For someone that wanted an appliance style espresso machine it would be quite a decent option, but given its overall architecture really cant justify a RRP above around $1,000

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    I am playing the devil here. But has anyone measured the intra/intershot temp of a well-executed thermoblock? I know there're plenty of black sheep thermoblocks out there (even Sunbeam themselves), but maybe it'll function properly with a good design? If the internal is well built using more commercial-grade components (than plastics etc), it might worth a shot...

    The only thing - I would prefer a conventional boiler for steaming, rather than the 'thump thump thump' thermoblock steamer..

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    I would love to see breville do a bdb with a real polished metal exterior. If they could just include a 3.5L steam boiler as well........😀

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    The coloured breville machines have polished areas, look hugely different. If the stainless version was all polished it would look much more blingy, a bit like the traditional machines.

    Cheers

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    Quote Originally Posted by samuellaw178 View Post
    I am playing the devil here. But has anyone measured the intra/intershot temp of a well-executed thermoblock? I know there're plenty of black sheep thermoblocks out there (even Sunbeam themselves), but maybe it'll function properly with a good design? If the internal is well built using more commercial-grade components (than plastics etc), it might worth a shot...

    The only thing - I would prefer a conventional boiler for steaming, rather than the 'thump thump thump' thermoblock steamer..
    They called it the GEE and it was about $700 over here. Went down like a lead balloon. If you scored a good one, they were actually pretty good value.

    A good thermoblock with great temp control could certainly do brew and do it well. They're great at low volumes.

    For mine, the design of the LM Linea mini group (tiny boiler over group with brilliant temp control almost at the puck) has a whole lot more smart in it and there are plenty who reckon it's a window into the future.
    Last edited by TC; 15th November 2015 at 07:57 PM. Reason: tpyo
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    Off topic sorry but is the LM Linea mini group design like the breville dual boiler design Chris (in theory if nothing else)? Or vastly different?

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    Has anyone bought one of these things yet or even seen any reviews of them?

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    Haven't seen one live, but noticed this video:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifdv7H6MxgY
    Bit surprised they'd put that up.... Not sure it's the best looking extraction?

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    Is that a comedy video without a laugh track?

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    It would be funny if it wasn't so sad. I get better extractions out of my EM4820 with a single wall basket.

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    I watched it again with a blindfold and earplugs and the Torino reminded me of a Strada...

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    I'm very convinced that he's an actor. Except for the good micro foam, but you only see hands pouring it.

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    The bloke used to work for Single O and is starting his own cafe in Surry Hills (under that Neighbourhood name - not much online about it). He's got a reputation, but I wonder whether the win for him was trying to get exposure for his new business..? Made me google it at least.

    In any case, you can tell he doesn't believe in the product.

    They have some very sneaky ways of claiming what the machine can do - e.g. "inspired by the classic italian e61 group handle that I use all day inside my cafe delivering great quality coffee and great quality extractions" - which doesn't mean the Torino does.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kyeba View Post
    I'm very convinced that he's an actor. Except for the good micro foam, but you only see hands pouring it.
    I'm not. Googled him. He's on LinkedIn, Instagram (both on his own and on Single O's instagram feeds). Interestingly they spell his surname wrong in the video. McMannus, rather than McManus. Either that or he can't spell his own surname for his own LinkedIn account.. could be the case. He misspells 'roasters' as 'roatsers'.

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    I doubt they will establish the kind of reputation the bdv has, however I also wouldn't be surprised if these sell a few units.

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    That is the question
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    Ha. Indeed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by robsal View Post
    Haven't seen one live, but noticed this video:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifdv7H6MxgY
    Bit surprised they'd put that up.... Not sure it's the best looking extraction?
    G'day robsal

    Yep, instant sink shot in my book (I have thrown out much better pours than that).

    FWIW, It would have to be able to do a lot better than that to be more than a toy - and I am pretty sure it could do a lot better than that...

    TampIt

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    Quote Originally Posted by readeral View Post
    I'm curious where they've put the 3rd thermoblock, whether it's for the steam or the brew, or if it's in line with both.

    Also it says 'stainless steel and cast metal' so I reckon it's still mostly aluminium.
    From the Sunbeam website. Sounds like two thermoblocks in the brew circuit.

    Two of the thermoblocks are dedicated to ensure optimum temperature stability. . . . . .The third thermoblock provides simultaneous, powerful steam performance for professional silky milk texturing.

  45. #45
    Senior Member readeral's Avatar
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    I'm really not sure you could compare this to an ECM...

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by readeral View Post
    I'm really not sure you could compare this to an ECM...
    I'm really sure that you can't compare it to anything other than another appliance machine.

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    The only comparison that I admit to being curious about is the shot quality of the Torino vs the BDB considering the Torino claims re: temp stability.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tobeanornottobean View Post
    I doubt they will establish the kind of reputation the bdv has
    Morning tbnb, wonder if you would mind telling us a little about your perception of the reputation of the BDV [sic]

    Re the Torino, loved the line quoted by rederal "inspired by the classic italian e61 group handle that I use all day inside my cafe delivering great quality coffee and great quality extractions" meaningless.

    $2000 price tag! as Chris commented "dreamin" at least they didn't call it the Gran Torino.

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    New Sunbeam Torino

    I have tested this machine at Harvey Norman Bondi few days back. It's very cool looking machine, similar to those made by ECM (Professional German Brand, double price); and it is the look that pulled me in for a trial. The machine functions exactly what its supposed to, but does not have a Wow impression to me.

    Have owned number of coffee machine before including Sunbeam, I think Sunbeam has outdone themselves in designing, it've got style and well built. The machine worth the money on the look, every cent.
    While making my double short exp there, the gauge clicked at 12 to 13 bar (in the red area) from the coffee grinded by the grinder comes with it. The coffee comes out, however not as thick as expected; does have beautiful caramel colour though. The reason can be various, but to me the result was OK but not fantastic. It does have program to soak the coffee for few second before really pumping the water through (similar to the first 8 second from Breville BES920).

    The steamer on this Torino machine can be adjust in term of dryness....but it use the same mechanical part in most of Sunbeam coffee machine. It may look like a dial switch where people think they can adjust the how strong the steam is by turning it more/less. Well, it is appeared to me just purely switch ON/OFF. This is disappointment to me, my old Sunbeam 10 years before did just exactly that. Giving circumstance that this machine is out to compete with Bellevue top of the line, this is a step back; the steam level in Breville does adjust the current of the steam stream.

    The grinder again, does look really cool too; and it has design of professional grinder that you may find in normal coffee shop. If you want to compare with LCD featured Breville grinder, its really up to your choice as to me functional wise, they are the same. Some will find the LCD may be more intuitive....

    The quality of coffee wise, ECM is better (quite gap there); Breville BES 920 will be the next in line. (I have included the ECM here as the look of Sunbeam new machine is exactly look like ECM, they may try to simulate here). I have opened Sunbeam, Breville and ECM machine, the inside part of Sunbeam and Breville have nothing comparing to ECM but they do last long enough. Again, sadly, the quality of parts used in Sumbean are not that great. Thus, I do have reluctance to favour the new Sunbeam; as haven't open it yet.

    Conclusion, the new Sunbeam Torino is balanced combination of the look and the quality. For 1900, this coffee baby does pretty good job, will mostly satisfy everyone. It's just unsure that how will it compete well with some alternative like BES920 from Breville, which you can grab at $1200 or $1400 included grinder (I bought one as gift from David Jone last Xmas for 1200 included grinder, same offer from Binglee for 1350 last year); and it does make slightly better coffee (thicker, drier).

    Hope it help you guy to choose.

  50. #50
    Senior Member readeral's Avatar
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    Wow.. So many words, so little information. I think what I took away is that the look of a machine is very important to you.
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