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Thread: Profitec Pro 500

  1. #51
    Senior Member matth3wh's Avatar
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    Much happy drinking there Listen4Life. Enjoy!
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  2. #52
    Junior Member Umpqua's Avatar
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    I purchased a Pro500 (serious kitchen bling) from Paul of b. Firstly I'd like to thank Paul for his infinite patience, help and hospitality, he was excellent to deal with. I've been using the machine since day one and recently we had 18 guest for lunch this Easter. At the end of lunch everyone wanted a coffee. I was a little nervous hoping the machine would cope. Well it did cope pumping out 18 flat whites in short time. The only trouble, when there's free coffee to be had every one wants another one. 12 more cups latter I ran out of beans( I thought I had enough). The Pro500 purred along like a well oiled machine only slowing down when the water tank needed filling or the hopper on my Quamar Q50p emptied. In the end the only thing that let me down was the barista (moi) he lacked technique and speed, none of the guest complained though. There are a number of items I love about this machine, one in particularly part that stands out is the commercial spring loaded taps, they turn on and off with little effort. And there's the four hole steam wand (OK two items) it's fast and furious heating a 330ml jug in seconds, at the start I wasn't prepared for the speed as I've only used machines with slower steamers. All in all the Pro500 has a lot of high end parts, and imo anyone prepared to part with the money will not be disappointed with the 500. Another thing/tool I'd like to recommend which helped me cope with preparing a lot of coffees for the Easter lunch was the use of a Pullman Chisel distribution tool, my Stockfleth method is slow, the Chisel took care of my fumblings and distributed the coffee beautifully, and quickly before tamping. Back to the Pro500 I'm extremely happy with it, the trouble is I want to play with my machine all the time. The only way I can avoid a serious caffein addiction, is to go Decafe. Thanks again Paul

  3. #53
    Junior Member Umpqua's Avatar
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    That's a great looking set up Paul. Seriously black op's. I can see some under the radar stealthy night extractions happening..
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  4. #54
    Senior Member Magic_Matt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Umpqua View Post
    That's a great looking set up Paul. Seriously black op's. I can see some under the radar stealthy night extractions happening..
    Must say I quite like the blacked-out pro500 next to that grinder.

    Still more a fan of the chrome faceplate though

  5. #55
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    How well will the powder coated drip tray stand up to scratches long term? That'd be my main worry.

  6. #56
    Senior Member trentski's Avatar
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    Not very. You can sharpen a knife on the ceramic on the bottom of a coffee cup. Powdercoat has no channce long term. Easy touch up though.
    Last edited by trentski; 25th April 2017 at 09:16 PM. Reason: Speling mistook

  7. #57
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    You could get the drip tray coated in black rubber or taking it to the next level, you could get all the high wear surfaces enamelled like the old stoves.
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    I have some rubber spray that are normally used to coat rims of the car tyre rims. Wonder if that will work on the drip tray/warming tray to reduce vibrations/wear and tear?
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  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Umpqua View Post
    I purchased a Pro500 (serious kitchen bling) from Paul of b. Firstly I'd like to thank Paul for his infinite patience, help and hospitality, he was excellent to deal with. I've been using the machine since day one and recently we had 18 guest for lunch this Easter. At the end of lunch everyone wanted a coffee. I was a little nervous hoping the machine would cope. Well it did cope pumping out 18 flat whites in short time. The only trouble, when there's free coffee to be had every one wants another one. 12 more cups latter I ran out of beans( I thought I had enough). The Pro500 purred along like a well oiled machine only slowing down when the water tank needed filling or the hopper on my Quamar Q50p emptied. In the end the only thing that let me down was the barista (moi) he lacked technique and speed, none of the guest complained though. There are a number of items I love about this machine, one in particularly part that stands out is the commercial spring loaded taps, they turn on and off with little effort. And there's the four hole steam wand (OK two items) it's fast and furious heating a 330ml jug in seconds, at the start I wasn't prepared for the speed as I've only used machines with slower steamers. All in all the Pro500 has a lot of high end parts, and imo anyone prepared to part with the money will not be disappointed with the 500. Another thing/tool I'd like to recommend which helped me cope with preparing a lot of coffees for the Easter lunch was the use of a Pullman Chisel distribution tool, my Stockfleth method is slow, the Chisel took care of my fumblings and distributed the coffee beautifully, and quickly before tamping. Back to the Pro500 I'm extremely happy with it, the trouble is I want to play with my machine all the time. The only way I can avoid a serious caffein addiction, is to go Decafe. Thanks again Paul
    Congrats on your purchase! Good to read that you pumped out 18 FWs with your Profitec / Quamar combo. I don't obviously know about your speed and workflow, but in my book that is serious load on both gear AND barista. From what I read on prosumer HX machines with a thermosyphon loop like yours, they need some recovery time after pulling so many shots, but apparently that wasn't a problem during your Easter dinner.

  10. #60
    Senior Member 2muchcoffeeman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by K_Bean_Coffee View Post
    HX machines with SS boilers struggle...
    Some data/research to support that statement Paul?

    I cannot see any thermodynamic reason that a satisfactory SS HX (and boiler around it) cannot be manufactured.
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  11. #61
    Senior Member readeral's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by K_Bean_Coffee View Post
    ....and that's why the Aus Spec Pro 500 has been "upgraded" to a brass boiler. It has no problem keeping up.
    HX machines with SS boilers struggle.
    Cheers, Paul
    K Bean Coffee
    Absolutely no struggles with my Technika's SS boiler, Paul. And trust me, I've put it through its paces at conferences. Even if there are material-level conversations to be had, this particular point of rationale for brass is hot air I'm afraid.
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  12. #62
    Senior Member 2muchcoffeeman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by K_Bean_Coffee View Post
    Hi Al,
    The rationale comes straight from the Aus importer. The standard machine overseas has a SS boiler. The importer wasn't happy with the thermal performance so specified a brass boiler for the Aus version.
    Cheers, Paul
    Ok-so that explains it then.

    Would appear that it's just that Profitec has submitted their assignment without completing their homework on how to manufacture a satisfactory stainless HX boiler which performs well.

    I would have thought the boiler would be copper rather than brass for reasons of health and safety.

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    Paul, I would hope that the Profitec 500 boiler is lead free

  14. #64
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    Yes the boiler on the Aus spec Pro 500 is Copper - so no need to worry about lead Listen4Life. And while the SS boiler performs fine, the Copper boiler was our preference which is why we specced it. Similar to the Mater/Sirai pressure stat decision we took - in favour of the Sirai.

    charlie

  15. #65
    Site Sponsor Casa Espresso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by K_Bean_Coffee View Post
    Hi Al,
    The rationale comes straight from the Aus importer. The standard machine overseas has a SS boiler. The importer wasn't happy with the thermal performance so specified a brass boiler for the Aus version.
    Cheers, Paul
    I think Paul means Copper not Brass.

    I don't think the reason for a copper boiler here in Australia is to do with thermal stability.

    Issues with Copper V Stainless are: cost and easy of manufacturer and repair, perceived health issues, tolerance to different water quality and overall longevity.

    The EU is rightly or wrongly seeing a move towards stainless boilers.

    Cheers

    Antony
    Casa Espresso - Home

  16. #66
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Interesting post from this site
    Why Brass Or Copper Boilers In The Coffee Espresso Machines Are Considered To Be The ?Best Choice?? - CoffeeForums Coffee Facts

    This from Why Brass Or Copper Boilers In The Coffee Espresso Machines Are Considered To Be The “Best Choice”?


    Q: Why brass or copper boilers are considered to be the “best choice”?

    A: 1. Heat efficiency. Due to its EXTRAORDINARY THERMAL CONDUCTIVITY and THERMAL CAPACITY, brass gets hot much faster and keeps heat much longer than aluminum and stainless steel. 2. Anti-corrosion resistance. Even though brass getting the thin film of the oxidized layer on the outside surface it doesn't get corroded inside. Aluminum oxidizes very fast, corrodes internally and doesn't keep the right temperature that the Espresso extraction requires. 3. Health benefits. Copper is considered to be one of the most effective antibacterial metals. In ancient times, people used surgical instruments produced from the copper because of its bactericidal properties. The scientific research shows that some life treating bacteria like E.coli survives on the copper surface only for the few hours when it takes 34 days to die on stainless steel. In Italy it is prohibited to use aluminum in the food processed industry. You can find aluminum and stainless steel boilers on cheap espresso machines produced mostly in Asian countries where the health regulations are not strict. All commercial machines are equipped with brass or copper boilers. There are some Espresso machines for home use like Lelit, Brugnetti, Daltio, Expobar, La Scala, Rancilio, Isomac, LaPavoni that have brass boiler inherited from their commercial cousins.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yelta View Post
    Interesting post from this site
    Why Brass Or Copper Boilers In The Coffee Espresso Machines Are Considered To Be The ?Best Choice?? - CoffeeForums Coffee Facts

    This from Why Brass Or Copper Boilers In The Coffee Espresso Machines Are Considered To Be The “Best Choice”?


    Q: Why brass or copper boilers are considered to be the “best choice”?

    A: 1. Heat efficiency. Due to its EXTRAORDINARY THERMAL CONDUCTIVITY and THERMAL CAPACITY, brass gets hot much faster and keeps heat much longer than aluminum and stainless steel. 2. Anti-corrosion resistance. Even though brass getting the thin film of the oxidized layer on the outside surface it doesn't get corroded inside. Aluminum oxidizes very fast, corrodes internally and doesn't keep the right temperature that the Espresso extraction requires. 3. Health benefits. Copper is considered to be one of the most effective antibacterial metals. In ancient times, people used surgical instruments produced from the copper because of its bactericidal properties. The scientific research shows that some life treating bacteria like E.coli survives on the copper surface only for the few hours when it takes 34 days to die on stainless steel. In Italy it is prohibited to use aluminum in the food processed industry. You can find aluminum and stainless steel boilers on cheap espresso machines produced mostly in Asian countries where the health regulations are not strict. All commercial machines are equipped with brass or copper boilers. There are some Espresso machines for home use like Lelit, Brugnetti, Daltio, Expobar, La Scala, Rancilio, Isomac, LaPavoni that have brass boiler inherited from their commercial cousins.
    I wouldn't view the above paragraph as authoritative because of plain silly sounding assertions like - "All commercial machines are equipped with brass or copper boilers." -

    REALLY???????
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  18. #68
    Senior Member level3ninja's Avatar
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    And I find the assertion that ancient peoples used surgical tools made of copper because of anti bacterial properties a bit odd. Did they even know what bactiera were? I think it's more likely that it was because copper was the sharpest metal they had available.
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    Quote Originally Posted by level3ninja View Post
    And I find the assertion that ancient peoples used surgical tools made of copper because of anti bacterial properties a bit odd. Did they even know what bactiera were? I think it's more likely that it was because copper was the sharpest metal they had available.
    Ninja I think you would be right. I am reasonably sure the oligodynamic effect (pretty sure that is what this is called) was first discovered with silver with copper sometime after, you would have thought the scalpels would be silver? I know there was recent suggestion to make hospital doorknobs out of brass (in the last few years) for this reason (assume because people would knock off silver doorknobs!).

  20. #70
    Junior Member Umpqua's Avatar
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    Copper and brass are highly conductive transfering heat effeciently, SS conducts poorly.repair wise Copper and brass only need brazing where as SS needs tig/arc very-costly. Copper is getting more and more expensive.
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  21. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by coffe4me2 View Post
    Also, copper does cost more that stainless...
    You'd think that, but that's not the reality. SS is much more difficult to fabricate and as a result, copper is the less expensive option ex. manufacturer.
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  22. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Melbroaster View Post
    I wouldn't view the above paragraph as authoritative because of plain silly sounding assertions like - "All commercial machines are equipped with brass or copper boilers." -

    REALLY???????
    Yeah, I took the quoted post to be about 20% factual, 75% ranting, 5% casual racism. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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    Enjoying the discussion about copper vs stainless. While copper in trace amount is a nutrient, in larger amounts over longer periods can accumulate and eventually be harmful to health. Since acidic water will react with to release more copper in your coffee, perhaps it is best to avoid acidic water and optimal to use alkaline water - ph strips are cheap and widely available.

  24. #74
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    Personally I think the sponsor with the solid gold tamper and portafilter handle should offer silver boilers, great thermal conductivity, purifying and relatively easy to work with

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    Yes silver had antibacterial and immune boosting properties. Royalty were called blue bloods because they used silver cultlery.

  26. #76
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Listen4Life View Post
    Yes silver had antibacterial and immune boosting properties. Royalty were called blue bloods because they used silver cultlery.
    Cant let this one go (the Sat morning pedant in me is straining at the leash)

    "This term refers to European Royal nobility and is a metaphor that describes the profound blue appearance of the veins and skin. The term Blue Blood (aka sangre azul) has origins that may predate recorded history. It is very certain a number of factors may have created this term."

    Interestingly the site also explains how using silver drinking vessels etc caused blue skin and veins, (I had no idea)
    "High consumption of Silver actually allowed for very high resistance to bacterial infections. However, the very high levels of Silver also caused Argyria . The condition of Argyria literally caused Blue skin and rather pronounced blue veins and arteries." Learning all the time! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cokngZwEwrw

    https://www.quora.com/How-did-the-te...ood-come-about
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  27. #77
    Senior Member Barry O'Speedwagon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yelta View Post
    Cant let this one go (the Sat morning pedant in me is straining at the leash)
    [/URL]
    Didn't think you had it in you Is he wearing a gimp suit?
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  28. #78
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry O'Speedwagon View Post
    Didn't think you had it in you Is he wearing a gimp suit?
    Yep.
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  29. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yelta View Post
    Yep.
    Yelta, that's just wrong
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  30. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by K_Bean_Coffee View Post
    ...ummm. I'm thinking that I should just go back to a SS machine. Caaan't shake that image from my head Yelta.

    Yes its official now Paul. The black Profitec 500 is now known as "The Gimp"
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  31. #81
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Casa Espresso View Post
    Yes its official now Paul. The black Profitec 500 is now known as "The Gimp"
    Don't blame me, Barry O started it.
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  32. #82
    Senior Member readeral's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by herzog View Post
    Looks like it's wearing a gimp suit.
    Actually, Herzog started it.
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  33. #83
    Site Sponsor Casa Espresso's Avatar
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    It's too late now, what's been seen can't be unseen

  34. #84
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    At least now if I come to your house I won't need to worry when you say "let's bring out the gimp"
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  35. #85
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by readeral View Post
    Actually, Herzog started it.
    Your right.

  36. #86
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Casa Espresso View Post
    Yelta, that's just wrong
    Your right! it is strangely disturbing.

  37. #87
    Senior Member Barry O'Speedwagon's Avatar
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    Well, that escalated quickly
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    Pity there isn't an option for clear side panels so you could see the sexy internals...
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  39. #89
    Senior Member Magic_Matt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toad View Post
    Pity there isn't an option for clear side panels so you could see the sexy internals...
    Clear perspex is pretty cheap and very easy to work with... 🤔

  40. #90
    Junior Member Umpqua's Avatar
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    What about a clear boiler. At you'd know how good your water is.😕
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  41. #91
    Senior Member Thirteen13's Avatar
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    Hey folks

    Im thinking about taking the plunge and getting pro 500. I sent jet-black an email but he hasnt responded so ill try in here too.

    I currently have a bes920. Smart grinder and have been home roasting with a behmor 1600 for about 7 years now.ive tried alot of what andy sells here on cs and I basically only drink colombian galeras beans cause they are so dam amazing.

    But im starting to get a bit fed up with the breville machine. Ive had an issue with each one and feel it could be time to step up.

    My logic is i want a quality machine that will give me at least 10 years use (with the usual maintenence in between!). Something that can be DIY serviced/repaired. But most importantly something that provides excellent coffee. I work from home so the coffee machine is my "office machine" so gets a decent work out. At least 10 cups per day between my partner and myself.

    Ive watched many youtube clips on a variety of reviews. Opening the machine up etc and i am very impressed. It really has a top quality look and attention to detail. Even under the shell. The simplicity of commonly used parts along with nicely bent pipes and fittings is mechanical porn.

    So from people that have them. Is this the kind of machine i should be looking at. In terms of quality of coffee. Quality of build etc? Would be great to get some feedback.
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  42. #92
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    G'day thirteen, I reckon you'll find owner feedback for Profitec on build quality is universally good (I have their sibling brand ECM). I haven't owned a Breville DB, but the difference between my previous machine (sunbeam em6910) and ECM double boiler is light and day.

    The bigger question is whether the 500 is the best model for you; with your high usage (and maybe tax write off for depreciation?), you can certainly justify a high initial spend.

    Tell us a bit more about these ten coffees - all in the morning, spread throughout the day, white, black, etc...

    One thing to consider is that a double boiler will cost a little more to run - no big deal if it's only on for an hour in the morning, but more do if it's running all day, every day. So the heat exchanger 500 might just be your perfect match.

    Either way, I'd definitely persist with checking out a shortlist in store.

  43. #93
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    Well i figured if the BES920 can handle 10 cups with ease, im sure the Pro500 wouldnt even bat an eye. Its just milk coffee or espresso spread out across the day, i usually drink 3 for breakfast, as in 2 back to back then morning tea, pre lunch, lunch, post lunch, afternoon tea and maybe bit before dinner. I have no doubt though the Pro500 or really any machine in this class ($1500-$3000) range will struggle with my use. But due to my accounting background also i'm taking more of a logic approach. In the 7 years of home roasting and making coffee ive saved nearly $80,000 vs the classic sydney $4 cup of coffee price. So the machine outlay isnt really an issue.

    But i'm looking it more as i am a DIY'er, (i have 2 hobby cars, and i do alot of manufacturing with timber and metal) so i'm not afraid to tear it open and mend stuff, and the pro500 and even the 700 both look capable of being home repaired relatively easily. I'm harping on alot about the repair state before ive even got the machine, but i'm just coming from the point that i've had to go through quite a few repairs with my current set of machines so the next step is to buy something that i dont really even have to do much too, other than descale and flush out. I understand parts die, but looks simple enough to fix.

    I truth also for that price range most of hte machines will do a top job, so it has to be something else that is t he point of difference, which is why im looking at the pro500, top build quality, ease of maintenance, quality of cup.
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  44. #94
    Senior Member readeral's Avatar
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    No point spending more than you need to. If you have no interest in changing brew temps get a pro 500. If you do, get a 700. You could get another brand, but usually thinking that way gets you into muddles - the Profitec brand has proven excellent and will suit you well.

    I'm sure Charlie will get back to your email when he can, but you can get him on the phone too. As is obvious, Paul also ranges the Profitecs so if you're not a Sydney local he can give you a hand.
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  45. #95
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    Yeah initially as in 7 years ago, all the temperature settings was a big thing to me, now i dont care, i just want to turn it on, make good coffee and work. Thats why i like the 500, just turn it on, heat it up and off u go.

    Actually how long does the 500 take to heat up ready to go, my partner she leaves for work at 4.30am usually so i get up and make her some coffee before she goes for the day.

  46. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thirteen13 View Post
    Yeah initially as in 7 years ago, all the temperature settings was a big thing to me, now i dont care, i just want to turn it on, make good coffee and work. Thats why i like the 500, just turn it on, heat it up and off u go.

    Actually how long does the 500 take to heat up ready to go, my partner she leaves for work at 4.30am usually so i get up and make her some coffee before she goes for the day.
    If you have a regular lifestyle like that, just get a timer for it to preheat and don't even worry about the specifics of how long it'll take. Like many e61s, it'll take ~40 mins and most get around it with a timer (as I do with my ECM, my timer comes on at 5am and it's good to go). You can choose a quicker machine to be able to flick it on and potter around waiting to come to temp, some other brands will do that for you, but... it's still a heatup of 10 or so minutes, so don't make it an issue, just commit to a cheapy digital timer IMO - or a wifi one if you need to be a little more spontaneous.

    The pressurestat in the Pro 500 is a good one, will happily handle the machine being on for longer stretches - I know JetBlack leaves their staffroom Pro 500 on all day, so once it's on for your first coffee you'd be able to leave it on for good stretches of the day.
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  47. #97
    Senior Member Thirteen13's Avatar
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    Yes this is very handy to know and not really an issue, once its heated up leaving it on will just retain the heat. Big W and Kmart sell nice little timers too.
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  48. #98
    Senior Member Thirteen13's Avatar
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    Actually another quick question, in terms of descale and backflush. I normally backflush my 920 weekly and descale every 2-3 months. So i'll assume same with the pro500. Is there manual controls on the machine to force the boilers etc to fill up or how does it work? I would have had the idea like that youtube clip you sent before b you empty the boiler out of water, and fill the tank up with descale mix so it fills the boiler, let it sit for however long, then drain it down?

  49. #99
    Senior Member readeral's Avatar
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    Descaling an HX is a little different to your Sunbeam. Preventative maintenance is preferred over regular descale - so that means decent water filtration. My machine is 2 years old but hasn't been descaled at all yet. Might be due for it soon, but prevention is better than cure. Can't answer the question of _how_ but as far as I know there's a bit of a process with descaling an HX. Nothing you can't do yourself though, just won't need to be nearly as regular as the Sunbeam.
    kbc and agsmatik like this.

  50. #100
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
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    Netherlands
    Posts
    48
    This link pretty much describes well how a HX machine can be descaled.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iuODdWm7oJQ

    It is demonstrated on a Bezzera machine, but it won't be much different on the Profitec 500. Readeral's advise to prevent scale buildup by treating your water is probably better though. There is a chance that during descaling some scale gets dislodged and ends up somewhere in your machine where it causes other problems.
    Magic_Matt, kbc and Listen4Life like this.

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