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Thread: Decent Espresso Machines (DE1) - Any thoughts?

  1. #751
    Senior Member matth3wh's Avatar
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    So shiny! So tasty!
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  2. #752
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yelta View Post
    Have a quick glance at the forum Title Ray Coffee Snobs is a specialty forum, dedicated to the world of coffee and inhabited by people who are quite passionate about the subject.

    Perhaps your looking for a software developers forum?
    i didn't mean it to come across that way yelta I had a laugh i was just glad for the info related to this product is all and didn't want them stop posting updates about it, considering it's something we dont generally get to see in this world of coffee its like watching it be developed from start to finish.

    Quote Originally Posted by gc View Post
    Not in defence of rayuki, [I'm sure he can do that for himself!], I didn't know that my being passionate about coffee excluded my interest in how my next machine is designed and built and how the software works with it to brew, hopefully, great coffee. I for one have followed this thread and other forums on DecentEspresso with great interest because of my passion for coffee, not instead of it and I'm very interested in the minutiae of its design and development. Being able to have input into design/config decisions as a future owner is a real bonus and I'm sure makes for a better machine, otherwise why would John bother investing time and energy in seeking feedback? There are a lot of great coffee minds out there to draw on through public forums like CS.
    pretty much this sums it up, i have an interest in a lot of things, im passionate about coffee and tech and seeing them both combined in this thread is great, didn't want the guys to be discouraged by posting here

  3. #753
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    Ordering Decent Espresso Parts

    screen 2017-11-02 at 5.45.15 PM.jpg

    We're beginning to insert all the parts in our Decent Espresso Machines into our shopping system. This will enable anyone to buy the parts to repair/replace anything in our espresso machines.

    A goal is to reassure buyers of our espresso machines that they won't have any trouble getting parts from us. There are no forms to fill out, no approval needed. Everything is transparent. You can even buy parts ahead of time if you're the worrying type.

    We will be posting annotated CAD files to http://onshape.com to make it even easier to see how everything fits together. We'll also be posting our own assembly instructions (videos, tips, and notes) to make disassembly/repair/re-assembly easier.

    Our entire product database (parts and everything else) is publicly available as a Javascript JSON file, with quite a lot of detailed info. This database includes the quantity we have on hand, and much else besides. Click the link to see:
    https://decentespresso.com/js/data/decent_products.js

    Next, we've made the URL to create a shopping cart intentionally very simple. The goal is to help people build software that automatically orders things from us. The URL is composed of pairs of "part number" and "quantity". Here is an example:
    https://decentespresso.com/cart?s=73631+1+73773+1

    For companies that have automated purchasing systems, it's quite easy to integrate our products into your process and a few companies already work with us in that manner.

    As with other things we sell, there is free shipping at 3 items, and price discounting starting at 5 items (10%).
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  4. #754
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    Report from the Korea Coffee Show

    We're back from the Korea Coffee Show. Our man Shin and his coffee-trainer/engineer friend ran the demos and made 1400 espressos in 4 days. This was a good test of DE1+ reliability under stress.

    IMG_4706.JPG

    Indian National Champion Paras Bindra came by with 2kg his El Salvadorian Geisha (!) and was grinning ear-to-ear an hour later as we'd tuned the DE1+ to extract it at it's best (17s preinfusion at 3.5 ml/s, 8 second hold at 9 bar then decline to 7 bar). Sort of a Slayer-start with a Synesso end. "Wow, that's good coffee," said another SCAA judge, upon tasting it.

    Super fan Chihyun Ahn is in the photo below, along with Joe McTaggart of Brew Brothers in Germany, representing Comandante hand grinders. I was super impressed by their grinder, though it took 60s to hand grind the Geisha, made a really an excellent Geisha espresso.

    20171111_140917.jpg

    A big hello to our new friends Doug and Barb from Orphan Espresso, who we shared coffee, pastries and manufacturing war stories with.
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    I got to spend some quality time with
    Marco Feliziani of Nuova Simonelli who walked me through the incremental improvements to their Mythos 2 (my favorite coffee grinder).


    IMG_5840.JPG

    And we were super excited to see my friend Kapo Chiu of HK's The Cupping Room - Roastery make it to the finals and take away 3rd place in the World Barista Championship.

    IMG_7440.JPEG
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  5. #755
    CoffeeSnobs Owner Andy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by decentespresso View Post
    ...ran the demos and made 1400 espressos in 4 days. This was a good test of DE1+ reliability under stress.


    Wow, that's an amazing effort.
    That a couple of coffees a day for two years testing, a great stress test and I'm sure a lot of other machines would have struggled at that volume.


    I hear the Korean shows are huge with a great coffee scene. I'll get there one day hopefully.
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  6. #756
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy View Post
    [/FONT] Wow, that's an amazing effort. That a couple of coffees a day for two years testing, a great stress test and I'm sure a lot of other machines would have struggled at that volume. [/FONT][/COLOR]I hear the Korean shows are huge with a great coffee scene. I'll get there one day hopefully.
    We used about 25kg of beans across two machines.

    While the show was great fun, and I've had my fill of Korean BBQ now, I can't say I really recommend it to non-Koreans, as the vast majority of trade show stands had no English speaking salespeople. There were many products that I wanted a demo of, but nobody to speak to. As far as visitors go, maybe 1 visitor in 50 to our booth spoke English.

    We had fully translated the DE1+ GUI into Korean, and I had two Korean native people working for me. Bugs spent all her time cleaning up after the espresso making (mostly cleaning and prepping portafilters) and I filled in during my Korean employee's breaks.

    One upside to this, however, is that a lot of National Barista Champions came to our booth, as we were one of the only places they could hang out at an interesting booth and speak English.

    And yes, the Korean coffee scene is really serious. 2/3rds of the Certified Q Graders worldwide are in Korea. We were able to have intensely technical discussions about coffee, with no attitude, and that was very gratifying. Nobody went "huh?" when I explained that this shot started like a Slayer and ended like a Synesso.
    Last edited by decentespresso; 1 Week Ago at 07:25 PM.
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  7. #757
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy View Post
    [/FONT] Wow, that's an amazing effort. That a couple of coffees a day for two years testing, a great stress test and I'm sure a lot of other machines would have struggled at that volume. [/FONT][/COLOR]I hear the Korean shows are huge with a great coffee scene. I'll get there one day hopefully.
    To be clear, we didn't have a faultless four days. Four defects/weaknesses made themselves known that we're making sure we rectify.

    - the biggest problem was that the "catering kit" for the DE1+, which is an external pump that refills our water tank, was accidentally pushed off the back of the table. As it fell, it ripped out the RJ45 phone connector on the PC board that it was tethered to. This "whoops" is likely to occur in the real world, so we're going to heavily reinforce the RJ45/PC board connection.

    - tilting the DE1+, traveling in a cab to a cafe, and immediately righting the machine left the water level sensor confused, likely because water had dribbled up into the sensor tube. The next day, the water in the tube had dried and all was fine, but the water level sensor was confused and caused spurious "out of water" software reports at the cafe demo. We're going to work around this by optionally ignoring the water level sensor when it does this, as we can believe we can detect this (mis)state on power up. There is a more sophisticated solution possible, which involves using a semi permeable membrane, but in the past year we've not been able to reliably mount it without tearing or crinkling it, as it's very delicate stuff.

    - a screw holding the box around a heater came out. Some "locktite" should fix that.

    - two rubber feet came out because the holes holding them hadn't been drilled by our fabricator to our tolerances.

    Two reasons I do these trade shows are:
    1) to create deadlines
    2) to real-life test the current state of the machine.

    -john
    Last edited by decentespresso; 1 Week Ago at 07:27 PM.
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  8. #758
    Senior Member artman's Avatar
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    It's great the machine is constantly being improved with bugs ironed out. Re the cable and reinforcing the board connection, wouldn't a magnetic link/connector or similar in the cable be better so that it won't stress any component if a mishap occurs?

    Cheers
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  9. #759
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    Quote Originally Posted by artman View Post
    It's great the machine is constantly being improved with bugs ironed out. Re the cable and reinforcing the board connection, wouldn't a magnetic link/connector or similar in the cable be better so that it won't stress any component if a mishap occurs? Cheers
    The reason we went with the RJ45 connector is because there's likely to be splashed water or at least steam, around this area (it's only a few cm above the water tank). Telephone connectors (like the RJ11 and RJ45) were designed to tolerate a fair amount of water, avoiding shorting circuiting and corrosion. You might have seen things like this in outside telephone boxes, that demonstrate this point.

    download.jpg

    Magnetic connectors were (I believe) designed to avoid people tripping on a cable causing a laptop to fly off the table. The fact that the RJ45 locks into place, and once clicked, won't come out, is important for a cafe. A magnetic connector that could be easily disengaged would annoy a cafe owner.

    The "smart cafe" from Dalla Corte uses a round DIN connector (locking, I think, but didn't confirm). Those are also used on musician's microphones, and they're very strong. They're very big and heavy, but they are not uncommon (my Lyn Weber EG1 grinder uses one too). Here's an example of a DIN connector:

    download-1.jpg

    However, there are a lot of different phone connectors available, and in our engineering meeting, we think that switching to an RJ45 with reinforcements that get soldered to the board will provide the strength we need.

    If not, we have the option to switch to a panel mounted RJ45 connector, like the one below, and that would totally separate mechanical stress from the PC board.

    images.jpg

  10. #760
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    I guess the question is: "what would have happened if the board/connector didn't break?"

    If the end result is that the machine is pulled off the table and breaks on the floor I don't think that's a better outcome. Ideally you'd want the breaking point to not exist (magnetic) or to be cheap and user replaceable (off the shelf cable).

  11. #761
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    Quote Originally Posted by mthomas87 View Post
    I guess the question is: "what would have happened if the board/connector didn't break?"

    If the end result is that the machine is pulled off the table and breaks on the floor I don't think that's a better outcome. Ideally you'd want the breaking point to not exist (magnetic) or to be cheap and user replaceable (off the shelf cable).
    The pump weighs 400 grams whereas the machine, with water tank full, weighs about 19kg, and it's on sticky rubber feet. There's zero chance of the pump pulling the machine off the table.
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    Packing an espresso machine

    We received samples this week of our espresso machine packing system. We're using 3 different pieces of foam to different effect. Rather than using styrofoam, I decided to use the same packing approach for our suitcase as for our cardboard box.

    People who buy an espresso machine from us without a suitcase (the majority) will have this foam holding their espresso machine in a cardboard box, and that box will, in turn, be packed in another box, with an air gap between the boxes.

    To hold parts in place, we're using the same molded EVA foam (spandex covered) technique that's in our Barista Kit. This time we've added a ton of ribbing for extra strength. The center layers are two symmetrically die cut PU foam pieces. Under the molded EVA foam pieces you'll find simple rectangular pieces

    Two years ago, the foam I had made was high density, all glued together. The big problems with that were (a) it smelled terrible, very perfumey (b) the gluing effect was ugly, and (c) the foam weighed 5kg. The total espresso machine weight was 21.3kg, just slightly over most airplane limits, causing me to haggle at the airport every time I flew.

    The new foam comes in at 1.6kg, bringing the "flight weight" of the suitcase and all espresso parts, to just under 18kg, safely well under the airplane limit.

    The one mistake we made with this prototype is to require you to take the layers apart to get the tablet out. We're correcting that design assumption (with a cutout for the tablet stand) so that you can leave all the layers of foam in place as you insert/remove parts.
    IMG_7453.jpg IMG_7456.jpg IMG_7462.jpg IMG_7461.jpg IMG_7452.jpg
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  13. #763
    Senior Member level3ninja's Avatar
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    Move over Rocket Porta Via!

  14. #764
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    Recreating your God Shots

    This new feature helps you save everything about your best espressos so that you can try to keep making them as good as that amazing one.

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