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Thread: Decent Espresso Machines (DE1) - Any thoughts?

  1. #301
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    Steam wand for DE1CAFE

    We're still working on the steam wand for our DE1CAFE model, which is a counter-sunk model meant for cafes (or very designery homes). This model features an 18 angled steam wand, at rest. We came to this angle because Slayer and the Black Eagle are in the 17 to 19 range "at rest". This seems to be a great angle for baristas. Also, the wand tip now clears the front of the table so it's really easy to get even a 1 liter jug (pictured) in under the wand.

    sideview.jpg

  2. #302
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    Quote Originally Posted by decentespresso View Post
    We were worried that water going into our espresso group head was not being distributed evenly.

    On most espresso machines (ours too, until recently), water comes into the group head (above the shower) via one hole. We used a computer based fluid simulation to show how the water is distributed on top of the shower with this way of doing things:

    So....

    We've now redesigned the water output into our group head so that instead of the standard single hole (most machines) we use a calibrated maze to output water out of six areas of two holes each.

    We then designed a new shower screen, so that when water is going onto the coffee slowly (such as during a slower preinfusion) the holes are calibrated to put water evenly around the entire puck. We used different heights in our shower screen to evenly output water across the entire puck at different water flow rates, with higher flow rates moving water further inwards. Our theory is that at slower water flow rates you want water circulating evenly around the entire center of the puck, so that through capillary action the entire puck is most likely to receive the water.

    Our flow simulations show that this design is achieving a worst case error of 3% unevenness at flow rates varying between 1ml/second to 6ml/second.

    Attachment 15499Attachment 15500

    and finally, in the photo below you can see that we aligned the 12 holes on the cover plate on the top of the group head so that they each feed to a different area of the shower. There is a rotational-lock feature on these parts so that they always fit together the right way.

    Attachment 15501
    Sheer brilliance. Love it. Easily the most elegant solution to that problem that I have encountered. Effectively runs a second shower screen, offset to even the flow out more than the 6 hole "rotor" can manage by itself.

    TampIt

  3. #303
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    Distribution tool

    We're starting to work on a distribution tool, that we'd add to our espresso coffee funnel https://decentespresso.com/funnel so that you can grind, spin, tap & tamp your way to better espresso.

    I like the ideas behind the OCD but I'm not crazy about the results I get with it. Turns out there's a reason for that: Examining the Impact of the OCD (and OCD 2) on Total Dissolved Solids Extraction – Socratic Coffee


    preview-full-Screenshot_2017-04-03_17-08-59.png
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  4. #304
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    Final water tank design

    We've settled on a final design on our water tank and we're having two ceramic factories make samples for us so we can choose the best one.

    It will be:


    • made of porcelain,
    • black glazed on the outside (so it's invisible),
    • white glazed on the inside (so you can see muck and particles)
    • will have a small ceramic handle mounted to the front so you can pull it out easily.
    • have a 2 liter capacity.

    It's a bit embarrassing, but we had a major breakthrough last week when one manufacturer asked if we could perhaps CNC what we wanted, because they can't read CAD files. It turns out that none of the ceramics factories in China can read CAD files, but were embarrassed to admit this. Instead they hand-make a mould from scratch by looking at our 2D drawings in the PDF we send. That explains the occasional very odd mistakes they make!

    So, we're paying a small fortune ($750 each) to make solid aluminum CNCed "water tanks" that are exactly what we want, and sending them to these two ceramic factories. They'll then use those as forms for their moulds. We have high hopes this will finally solve the tolerance issues.

    We also found out that a second "by hand" step is possible of wet-ceramic-gluing a handle to the front. That's a great solution to our "how do you pull the tank out" conundrum.

    The ceramics will take about 6 weeks to make, so we want to get this process started now, and get 500 water tanks (and soon, drip trays) made now.

    ii_15b3c14996eccc41.jpg
    ii_15b3c241615fd529.jpeg
    ii_15b3c1a836c0e060-1.jpeg
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  5. #305
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    creative group head cover designs

    Now that our group head redesign is almost done, we've shaved about 1cm from its height, and we can design a new (stainless steel) cover for it. Below are more sketches of ideas. Much more creativity is now possible because the reduced size of what we're covering. FYI, from the feedback I received about materials, it looks like brushed steel is the most often preferred texture for the group head cover. Shiny looks nice, but is hard to keep fingerprint free.

    Below is a photo of the new group head (without a cover) and lots of hand-drawn ideas for covers from Joao. The tube coming out of the bottom is the hot water spout for Americanos.

    There were a bunch of ideas in there that looked promising to me, so I've asked Joao to do real 3D drawings to see what actually works well in practice.

    GROUP HEAD DESIGN #2 (5).jpgGROUP HEAD DESIGN #2 (1).jpgGROUP HEAD DESIGN #2 (4).jpgGROUP HEAD DESIGN #2 (2).jpgGROUP HEAD DESIGN #2 (3).jpg

  6. #306
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    final DE1CAFE steam wand design

    I feel like we've gotten to a fairly good place with the design of the steam wand for our upcoming DE1CAFE model.

    It now:

    • naturally points out at 18 at rest
    • angles up to a maximum of 36 down to 0 (vertical)
    • clears the front of the table edge, for easy insertion of very large milk jugs
    • allows for the milk jug to rest on the drip tray while steaming takes place, for hands-free (lazy) operation.


    preview-lightbox-CAFE AND WANDS_0006.jpgpreview-lightbox-CAFE AND WANDS_0002.jpgpreview-lightbox-CAFE AND WANDS_0001.jpgpreview-lightbox-CAFE AND WANDS_0007.jpg

  7. #307
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    Quote Originally Posted by decentespresso View Post
    We've settled on a final design on our water tank and we're having two ceramic factories make samples for us so we can choose the best one.

    It will be:


    • made of porcelain,
    • black glazed on the outside (so it's invisible),
    • white glazed on the inside (so you can see muck and particles)
    • will have a small ceramic handle mounted to the front so you can pull it out easily.
    • have a 2 liter capacity.

    It's a bit embarrassing, but we had a major breakthrough last week when one manufacturer asked if we could perhaps CNC what we wanted, because they can't read CAD files. It turns out that none of the ceramics factories in China can read CAD files, but were embarrassed to admit this. Instead they hand-make a mould from scratch by looking at our 2D drawings in the PDF we send. That explains the occasional very odd mistakes they make!

    So, we're paying a small fortune ($750 each) to make solid aluminum CNCed "water tanks" that are exactly what we want, and sending them to these two ceramic factories. They'll then use those as forms for their moulds. We have high hopes this will finally solve the tolerance issues.

    We also found out that a second "by hand" step is possible of wet-ceramic-gluing a handle to the front. That's a great solution to our "how do you pull the tank out" conundrum.

    The ceramics will take about 6 weeks to make, so we want to get this process started now, and get 500 water tanks (and soon, drip trays) made now.

    ii_15b3c14996eccc41.jpg
    ii_15b3c241615fd529.jpeg
    ii_15b3c1a836c0e060-1.jpeg
    Have you considered 3D printing your prototype? Some of the 3D printing services (Shapeways) can do ceramic/porcelain now.

  8. #308
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrJack View Post
    Have you considered 3D printing your prototype? Some of the 3D printing services (Shapeways) can do ceramic/porcelain now.
    Yes, but the problem is that there is shrinkage with 3D printing, and we need to make a mould that is exactly the size we need. That's why we're carving the mould out of a solid block.

  9. #309
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    Decent espresso machine hardware changes : An update

    In this photo:

    silicone_heater2 copy.jpg 

    • We've committed to insulating the two heaters with silicone dips.
    • we've made custom connectors to weld onto the heater so that the "clip connectors" can used there.
    • there's a triple failsafe on both those heaters: an expensive German-made high accuracy, auto-resetting fuse at 180C on the top center (for UL approval), and a non-resetting double fuse visible on the left, set at 200C (for CE approval). CE doesn't allow resetting fuses for certification, but our idea is that the 180 fuse will always cut in before blowing the non-resetting (ie, repair needed) 200C fuses.
    • you can see in this photo the now thin water tube lever slot on the back
    • toward the back you can see a standard IEC power plug, a RJ45 adaptor for the plumbing kit (or other accessories) and a USB power pass-through to charge the tablet (no more messy cable on the side of the machine).
    • what you can't see are the two pumps, are mounted on a panel that has been removed in this view so that we can see inside.


    In this photo:

    wandhigher2.png


    • we've managed to raise the wand mounting point by 12mm. I'm happy about this because I wanted a bit more ease of getting a milk jug under the steam wand. We've changed how that front splash panel is mounted so this could be done.
    • only one mount point for the group head handle.
    • that yellow tube below the group head is the Americano water spigot. Its exact position is still being figured out.
    • I lied about the water tank design being finalized :-O - We came up with a last minute better solution of a built in under-handle, like a drawer, which we think the ceramics companies can do. This photo shows that.
    • we're working on a sharper angle for that splash panel mirror, so that you don't have to bend down to look at it and see the bottom of the basket and espresso coming out.
    • we're still working on a group head cover design. First attempt is below, but still needs work.


    d2desiogn.jpg
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    Progress report

    We're narrowing our list of the remaining engineering problems to solve. In this week's revisions:

    1. we've flipped the mounting panel for the pumps so that instead of it being on the outside edge, it's inside a bit. This gives the inside of the frame greater rigidity. We were worried that the twisting motion of mounting the portafilter on would gradually deform the chassis. We also have added a large L shaped plate (not visible from this view) that the group head bolts to, which adds horizontal rigidity as well. As a bonus this change also totally isolates the PC boards from the water uptake.
    2. The hot water pipe (for Americanos) now has a stainless steel tube around a solid-teflon tube, so that baristas flailing their portafilters around the group head won't damage that hot water tube.
    3. We've found a place to horizontally mount the flow meter (on that center panel) for the DE1+.
    4. You can see the final design of the water tank pull-out handle in this drawing.

    Still to be finalized are the vibration absorbing mounts for the two pumps. We're taking inspiration from an approach that we've found in taking apart a really nicely mounted Nespresso capsule machine, and using a coiled spring that goes from smaller to larger, which prevents resonance frequencies, and next week we'll design the rubber mount which fits on top of the pumps and which absorbs the vibrations. We have lots of good samples of this here to choose from, so we don't think this'll be too hard a problem.

    model1.jpg
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  11. #311
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    How far off production and delivery to AUS are you if one was ordered now?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lukemc View Post
    How far off production and delivery to AUS are you if one was ordered now?
    We start building pre-release models in June, and we have a ~2 month order backlog of orders for those, then we start making final release versions (August) and we also have about a 2 month order backlog on those.

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    Getting the angle right

    We're refining the angle of the mirrored lip on our espresso machine, so that you can look into it and see the bottom of your espresso portafilter, with espresso coming out. In this way you don't have to bend down to assess the quality of your drink.
    preview-lightbox-BACKSPLASH 1_0006 cópia.jpgpreview-lightbox-BACKSPLASH 1_1.7m0005 cópia.jpgpreview-lightbox-BACKSPLASH 1.jpg
    Attached Images Attached Images
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    I wonder if it would be possible to have the mirrored lip on an adjustable/lockable hinge. Bench heights would be reasonable similar, but not uniform. Barista heights wouldn't be uniform. And space available behind the barista won't be uniform. At 1.93m I would have to stand probably further away than I could reach to see the underside of the portafilter. And my 1.57m wine might have to stand on tip-toes. If I spent $1500 on a machine, I wouldn't want it to include another reminder that I'm the wrong size.
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    Quote Originally Posted by level3ninja View Post
    I wonder if it would be possible to have the mirrored lip on an adjustable/lockable hinge. Bench heights would be reasonable similar, but not uniform. Barista heights wouldn't be uniform. And space available behind the barista won't be uniform. At 1.93m I would have to stand probably further away than I could reach to see the underside of the portafilter. And my 1.57m wine might have to stand on tip-toes. If I spent $1500 on a machine, I wouldn't want it to include another reminder that I'm the wrong size.
    I don't have a problem eventually offering the splash panel with a different bend angle.

    But IMO a hinge would look pretty sloppy and would also be a coffee ground trap, hard to keep clean, and so I'm not keep on that.

    In the meantime, triangular shot mirrors are available, I believe, and could be placed in front of our "lip"

    FYI the lip is also needed by our machine for the hidden flush tube to rinse out into the drip tray.
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    group head in black or grey?

    Joao has designed a group head cover that I like, but he has surprised me with a black group head finish (same material and finish as on the body) and I'm finding that I like it. What do you think?

    blackheads copy.jpg

    greyheads copy.jpg

    ps: he's accidentally got the DE1CAFE steam wand design on this pics, that's not the wand design we'll be using on this machine model.

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    Quote Originally Posted by decentespresso View Post
    I don't have a problem eventually offering the splash panel with a different bend angle.

    But IMO a hinge would look pretty sloppy and would also be a coffee ground trap, hard to keep clean, and so I'm not keep on that.

    In the meantime, triangular shot mirrors are available, I believe, and could be placed in front of our "lip"

    FYI the lip is also needed by our machine for the hidden flush tube to rinse out into the drip tray.
    Simply brilliant idea - I have an old shaving mirror which I have used for years when setting up cafes or sorting out problematic machines. Being able to see the shot without it is one of the many carefully thought out features you are incorporating into the design of the DE1*'s - and there are a significant number of other ones "inbuilt". Well done.


    Quote Originally Posted by decentespresso View Post
    Joao has designed a group head cover that I like, but he has surprised me with a black group head finish (same material and finish as on the body) and I'm finding that I like it. What do you think?


    greyheads copy.jpg

    ps: he's accidentally got the DE1CAFE steam wand design on this pics, that's not the wand design we'll be using on this machine model.
    I prefer the grey one in the photo, possibly as I am not a glossy piano black fan. Matt black for the whole "non functional" case (i.e. not counting mirrored areas) would suit me more - or even a splash of colour across the "slab" of the exterior like the old '60's Electra commercial machines (with or without fancy lighting).

    Considering I really do not care what the end result looks like I am probably the wrong guy to give much input on that issue. I am a function over form guy who would paint it anyway if it really bugged me too much.

    TampIt

  18. #318
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    Either colour ok for me, but not keen on the piano gloss on black. Is choice too expensive? I think (without seeing the real thing), I'd probably go for the lighter metal look when I purchase.

  19. #319
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    Quote Originally Posted by decentespresso View Post
    We're refining the angle of the mirrored lip on our espresso machine, so that you can look into it and see the bottom of your espresso portafilter, with espresso coming out. In this way you don't have to bend down to assess the quality of your drink.
    Actually, all you would need to do, would be to replace the front four to five rungs of the drip tray with a solid section of polished s/s. Works beautifully on my particular machine...

    Mal.
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  20. #320
    Senior Member artman's Avatar
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    Great idea about the angled piece to act like a mirror, I am forever bending down to watch the naked pour magic!! Or.... you could setup a small camera and have the image appear on the tablet. Probably not viable but just thought of it.

    Re the pump, could you utilise a damper to dampen the vibrations of the pump? Even a simple tuned mass should make a difference, or am I missing something?

    Cheers
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    Quote Originally Posted by artman View Post
    Re the pump, could you utilise a damper to dampen the vibrations of the pump? Even a simple tuned mass should make a difference, or am I missing something?
    You're not missing anything, no. We've taken apart about a dozen vibe pump machines to see how they dampen vibrations, and it looks like best practice is a coiled spring on the bottom (no resonance, no sagging over time) and a tuned-hardness rubber on top to actually soak up the vibrations. Next week we'll be trying different durometer rubbers to see what works best in our situation.

    Quote Originally Posted by gc View Post
    Either colour ok for me, but not keen on the piano gloss on black. Is choice too expensive? I think (without seeing the real thing), I'd probably go for the lighter metal look when I purchase.
    The renders make the black look fairly glossy, much more than it is in reality. Below are photos of the real thing from my tour last November.

    sample2.jpg sample3.jpg sample1.jpg

    Choice is definitely a possibility, but not right now. We already have a 4 month backlog of machines to make when we start shipping, and keeping every machine the same will help us meet that demand faster. Given our existing volume of orders, we can't make one-offs for people without a full custom-order tracking system integrated into our manufacturing process. We'll get to a point eventually where we can do that, but at launch I think it's best if we keep it simple.

    That being said, I'm thinking of visually differentiating the DE1 and DE1+, and since most people seem happy with either, it might be that the DE1 gets the brushed steel group head, and the DE1+ gets the black one. And if you want something different you can buy the part from us and swap it out yourself (it's four bolts).

  22. #322
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    Shipping and payment query

    I'm pretty much ready to order a DE1+ final release version, so it looks like it'd be black then.

    But I started looking at how one goes about importing the machine and paying GST (taxes) and it looks VERY complicated to the first time importer, unless one uses an accredited customs agent. Does the shipping company that DecentEspresso will use facilitate all that process so we only pay the final price including taxes, or do we have to navigate the importation process ourselves?

    (I'm posting this query here on the assumption other prospective buyers may have a similar question).

  23. #323
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    Quote Originally Posted by gc View Post
    Does the shipping company that DecentEspresso will use facilitate all that process so we only pay the final price including taxes, or do we have to navigate the importation process ourselves? (I'm posting this query here on the assumption other prospective buyers may have a similar question).
    For most of the world, we ship using UPS, with "DPD - Duty Paid Delivered" and you'll see in your shopping cart the amount due to duty.

    We ship the hardware without the software, and declare the hardware at a value around USD$500 (depending on the model) and then you download the software over the Internet. Because Australia has an exemption for goods under A$1000 there is no duty to pay for importing our espresso machines or grinders.

    My understanding is that the EU has a self-reporting requirement when you buy software over the Internet from another country, but I don't know about Australia on that topic.

  24. #324
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    "Because Australia has an exemption for goods under A$1000 there is no duty to pay for importing our espresso machines or grinders.

    My understanding is that the EU has a self-reporting requirement when you buy software over the Internet from another country, but I don't know about Australia on that topic." from Decent Espresso today.


    I have just read in today's paper that as from July 1 this year, Australians will "have to pay GST on items worth less than $1000, plus digital products such as movie streaming, e-books, apps and games...."

  25. #325
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    I've not seen any talk about how the AU government expects to enforce this and make overseas companies their GST collectors as happens in AU. It may work with some of the big online retailers but again I'd be interested to read some detail on how it works in practice. I'm tempted to hold out and go for the DE1 over the NS Oscar II but will see.
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  26. #326
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paolo View Post
    I have just read in today's paper that as from July 1 this year, Australians will "have to pay GST on items worth less than $1000, plus digital products such as movie streaming, e-books, apps and games...."
    Direct from Aust tax office site, https://www.ato.gov.au/general/new-l...mported-goods/

    GST on low value imported goods

    "On 16 February 2017, the Government introduced law to Parliament that will amend the law to extend Goods and Services Tax (GST) to low value imports of physical goods imported by consumers.

    Suppliers with an Australian turnover of $75,000 or more in a twelve month period will be required to register and charge GST.
    The existing processes to collect GST on imports above $1,000 at the border are unchanged."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yelta View Post
    Direct from Aust tax office site
    I found this government article quite useful on this topic.
    Applying GST to digital products and services imported by consumers – Parliament of Australia

    Some takeaways:
    - it's a new law coming into effect
    - the tax rate will be 10% (very reasonable)
    - "The amendments in Australian law are broadly modelled on similar rules currently in operation in the European Union"

    It's not clear to me yet if this new law has passed:
    "
    Additionally, the change will require the unanimous agreement of the States and Territories before enactment of legislation"

    Anyone know?

    It appears to me that until this law passes and goes into effect, Australia does not charge for imported "non-real" goods.

  28. #328
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    Quote Originally Posted by decentespresso View Post
    I found this government article quite useful on this topic.
    Applying GST to digital products and services imported by consumers – Parliament of Australia

    Some takeaways:
    - it's a new law coming into effect
    - the tax rate will be 10% (very reasonable)
    - "The amendments in Australian law are broadly modelled on similar rules currently in operation in the European Union"

    It's not clear to me yet if this new law has passed:
    "
    Additionally, the change will require the unanimous agreement of the States and Territories before enactment of legislation"

    Anyone know?

    It appears to me that until this law passes and goes into effect, Australia does not charge for imported "non-real" goods.
    .........Thus my original difficulty in establishing what GST/duties are payable and to whom. I did find a link for updates on that legislation for John that has a link for email updates as well. It's currently:
    • Referred to Committee (23/03/2017): Senate Economics Legislation Committee; Report due 09/05/2017


    http://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;query=Id%3A"legislation%2Fems%2Fr5819_ ems_4304999d-0509-477f-a6ee-665cfd7e5f7c"

    So I'm guessing that even if I order now for a final release version that by the time it's ready GST will probably apply to both software and hardware - especially if software is on Playstore which along with Apple store and Amazon are key targets of this legislation.

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    Might be slightly off topic but wondering if you guys have looked into innovation/R&D tax based incentives?

    Given the amount of R&D/innovation you have out into this terrific concept/product. Just wondering if there is a way to register an Australian arm of the business community n order to be applicable for the tax credits ?

    It it may or may not be applicable to your company but just thought I would mention it for what it's worth.

    https://www.ato.gov.au/Business/Tax-...estors/?page=2
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  30. #330
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    Quote Originally Posted by decentespresso View Post
    We're refining the angle of the mirrored lip on our espresso machine, so that you can look into it and see the bottom of your espresso portafilter, with espresso coming out. In this way you don't have to bend down to assess the quality of your drink
    Quote Originally Posted by Dimal View Post
    Actually, all you would need to do, would be to replace the front four to five rungs of the drip tray with a solid section of polished s/s. Works beautifully on my particular machine...

    Mal.
    As per attached photo...

    Mal.

    Shot at 8 Secs.jpg
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  31. #331
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gorokabeanz View Post
    Might be slightly off topic but wondering if you guys have looked into innovation/R&D tax based incentives?Given the amount of R&D/innovation you have out into this terrific concept/product. Just wondering if there is a way to register an Australian arm of the business community n order to be applicable for the tax credits ? It it may or may not be applicable to your company but just thought I would mention it for what it's worth. https://www.ato.gov.au/Business/Tax-...estors/?page=2
    Thanks for offering but I'm assuming it's not going to work for us, because (a) we're based in the US and HK and the way I read this, the investment needed to be spent in AU (b) we've spent more than the max already (it's cost us US$2 million to develop our espresso machine, and the max allowed is A$1 million) split between US and HK and (c) we already have a reasonably successful coffee accessories business that has sold more than the max revenue allowed under this scheme.

    But thanks for thinking of us
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  32. #332
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    Update on barista kit

    We're very late on shipping our barista kits (with suitcase) https://decentespresso.com/barista_kit because getting the foam right has turned out to be incredibly hard. I had assumed that we'd use cut foam, and that's what the rendered models use. However, when we got the cut samples from the factory, I found that they (a) smelled terrible (b) were impossible to clean, because coffee got caught in the foam's air bubbles (c) were heavy and (d) was not long lasting.

    We've iterated over and over and decided to try very thin, foam covered in stretchy spandex. That got rid of the smell, made it easy to clean and long lasting. We first tried this idea out on our tamping kit and it looks good.

    t1.jpg

    Unfortunately, the edges where the spandex meets the foam are not perfect looking on about half the ones we made, so we're either going to have to sell those 250 forms at a 30% sale, or throw them out That's why we started with the tamping kit, because it's smaller than the barista kit, and such a mistake is less expensive.

    The factory came back with a suggestion to fix the edge problem, and for the barista kit they are sewing on a piece of fabric to cover the and protect the edge. Here's what that looks like:

    t2.jpeg
    we'll receive that in a few days, test it out, and if it's as good as I hope, we'll tell the factory to manufacture 500 of them.

    And if you're interested, here's a photo of the CNCed mould that is used to form the foam sheet into the needed shape.

    t3.jpeg
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  33. #333
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    Still working on the angle

    Australian barista Lee Safar pointed out that the counter height was too high in our backslash mirror angle experiments, and the person was too far away as well.

    So, we redid the render at 30cm away from the espresso machine, 1.7 meter person height, with a 95cm bar (also more realistic). We adjusted the panel angle some more, and I think it's good now.

    p1.jpg

    Here is someone slightly taller, also at 30cm distance (photo is mislabeled) view from the other side. If you're shorter, no problem, just move yourself closer to the espresso machine to change the mirror angle.

    p2.jpg
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  34. #334
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    De1 tablet software progress

    We're integrating a few people's separate work into the DE1 tablet software now, and this week we've added:

    1. the ability to choose from 14 "tablet styles" (aka "skins") where you tap on the image to activate steam/hot-water/espresso. Some of the tablet styles have different features (such as "instrumented" style that shows you all the internal sensors).
    2. the ability to browse/load/save/modify/delete pressure profiles (and the espresso set temperature)
    3. multi language support, including now having translated the tablet GUI into French, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese. At launch we'll also include Korean, Japanese, Chinese Simplified & Traditional, Arabic and others if people volunteer to help. All the supplied tablet styles are multilanguage.
    4. While the buttons are now in the GUI, we haven't yet implemented (1) cleaning cycles for espresso and steam (2) firmware updating (3) power on/off timer (4) re-pairing via bluetooth to another machine

    Below are pictures of the DE1 GUI in English, and some of the other pages in some other languages we're doing.

    1.jpg 2.jpg 3.jpg 4.jpg 5.jpg
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  35. #335
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    New: thermometer holes in our milk jugs.



    Not yet for sale online: if you want one, let me know when you order.
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  36. #336
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    Quote Originally Posted by decentespresso View Post


    Not yet for sale online: if you want one, let me know when you order.
    It looks like there's only one hole position on each jug, is that right?

  37. #337
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeroyC View Post
    It looks like there's only one hole position on each jug, is that right?
    That's right. A small number of people reported during testing that they wanted a hole on the other side as well, and we could do that in the future. One hole seemed nice and discrete, and didn't annoy people who don't use thermometers, while two holes was a turn-off from our jugs for those non-thermometer-using folks.

    Yes, I know the solution is "offer it as an option" but we already have six models (2x spouts, 3x sizes) and I don't want that to balloon to twelve models. The plan is for the thermometer hole to be a feature of our standard jugs. The holes need to be made before the black coating is applied it you want it to look tidy.
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  38. #338
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    Help me translate our espresso machine into your language.

    I'm looking especially for Korean, Japanese, Arabic, but I'm happy to do any other languages people want.

    I'd also love to get Italian, French, Spanish and Portuguese native coffee lovers to correct the translation we have already done.

    Currently, there are only about 100 words to translate, so it's a quick job, and you'll enter your translation on a shared google spreadsheet.

    If you'd like to help, send me a personal message with your email address.

  39. #339
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    Looks like you need some sort of stopper on the thermometer to stop it hitting the other side and affecting readings

  40. #340
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    Quote Originally Posted by level3ninja View Post
    Looks like you need some sort of stopper on the thermometer to stop it hitting the other side and affecting readings
    People think the reading is at the tip, but actually the entire stainless steel part of a thermometer is a housing for a temperature sensor inside it, and the sensor ends about 2mm before the tip. The entire last 5mm or so of the probe sends heat to the probe: that's why the stainless steel is narrowed there. Touching the far wall of the milk jug will have no effect on the temperature reading.


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  41. #341
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    I vaguely remember having two thermometers in a milk jug, one touching the bottom the other not and having them read differently. Could have just been the thermometers reading differently I suppose.

  42. #342
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    Quote Originally Posted by level3ninja View Post
    I vaguely remember having two thermometers in a milk jug, one touching the bottom the other not and having them read differently. Could have just been the thermometers reading differently I suppose.
    If the jug was stainless steel, and somewhat heavy, and the liquid just recently added, then the contact between the probe and the side could have acted heat sink.

    Our jugs are made from fairly thin 0.8mm 304 stainless steel, so they temperature equalize with the milk really quickly. The other reason for this was so that baristas could feel the temperature change of the milk with their palm of their hand, with a faster response.

  43. #343
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    final forms for drip tray and water tank

    The final forms for our drip tray and water tank have been made. A robotic CNC machine milled these out of solid blocks of aluminum!
    
    miykds.jpg
    
    In case you haven't been following every single progress report I sent, these were needed because we recently discovered that none of the ceramics factories can read 3D CAD files, but they were embarrassed to say so. They've been approximating by reading our 2D drawings, and getting things only somewhat right. The ceramics factories asked us to give them exactly what we wanted them to make, and they'd figure out how to do that (hopefully, taking clay shrinkage into account!).

    We've made two sets because we've got two final contenders in terms of ceramics factories to order from. These water tanks cost USD $750 each to make, so I really hope this "cracks the code" and we finally get something we're happy to use.

    Also received today:

    1. in the bottom left, you can see our first attempt at a home-made "flush diffuser" so that you don't get splashed when the pressure is released.
    2. in the center bottom, is our first attempt at a "blade" that will fit into our portafilter funnel, to turn the funnel into a rotating grounds diffusion tool.

    Below is a photo of two espresso machine legs, which are also going to the ceramics vendors, so they can make sure the water tank and drip tray they make fit well into it.

    These legs are a new design for us, in that they're now made out of one piece of bent aluminum. For the past two years we've made the legs from two parts that we bolted together, but we were concerned that after several years the legs would eventually sag in the middle, so we've switched to this much stronger (but harder to pull off) design.

    lgsaz.jpg
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  44. #344
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    Quote Originally Posted by decentespresso View Post
    If the jug was stainless steel, and somewhat heavy, and the liquid just recently added, then the contact between the probe and the side could have acted heat sink.

    Our jugs are made from fairly thin 0.8mm 304 stainless steel, so they temperature equalize with the milk really quickly. The other reason for this was so that baristas could feel the temperature change of the milk with their palm of their hand, with a faster response.
    That makes sense, thanks for the explanation ☺️

  45. #345
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    We've now reintegrated the changed mirror angle, shape and length from Joao's study into our CAD model.

    Joao version side plate - Side view.JPG

    Happily, this also gives us more space to mount the flush tube in, and still have it be out of sight.

    We still need to figure out how the usb cable is going to come out the front panel and connect discreetly to the tablet to keep it charged. I don't really want to cut a notch out like this, as it's not a very elegant solution:

    usb-front.jpg

    much better would be something like this, that we're trying to source this week:

    usb.png
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  46. #346
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    new ideas for group head water diffusers

    Ben Champion suggested we change the group head design to make experimentation easier, which we've now done. Ben and Ray are now trying several different group head diffuser ideas, some based on calibrated orifices, some on turbulence:

    preview-full-pasted-file-4-1.png preview-full-pasted-file-3.png preview-full-pasted-file-2.png

    All of these are performing well under simulation, and all are much better than the single-hole approach we had (and that you find in other espresso machines). However, it's unlikely that we'll decide which one is the "bee's knees" of diffusers in the next few weeks. We'll likely choose one of the calibrated approaches, because it's known to work well (turbulence is very hard to understand and model).

    We'll keep banging away on these ideas in the months to come, and I'm hoping that once the DE1 is out, other people will join in with their own ideas, and have them CNCed (local CNC cost is about $150 for this part) to see if they work better. With lots of people banging on the problem of even water flow (at low velocity) under varied conditions, I'm hoping that a winning approach will emerge (or maybe several). We'll be posting the CAD files for our own ideas, in case you want to start with that and modify it.

    Here's what some of the simulations look like. We're trying to have even water flow, but also quite low velocity, to minimise "drilling into" the coffee puck, at varied pressures and flow rates.

    Our next set of simulations, which Ben has started to work on, involve simulating the puck's absorption of water. We're hoping to gain a better understanding of what happens during preinfusion through this work.

    preview-full-pasted-file-9.png preview-full-pasted-file-10.png
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  47. #347
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    espresso tablet artwork in other languages

    In the past 48 hours, 23 people have volunteered to translate the DE1 tablet software, and we now have added Swedish, Hungarian, Thai, and Danish to the list of supported languages (in addition to Japanese, Korean, Chinese, Spanish, Italian, Portuguese and German).

    There are about 40 artistic tablet styles that will be available on the DE1. Instead of doing real work, this past summer I worked with 40 different artists, from all around the world, to create these. The translations are automatically used on all of them. Below you can see some examples of this, in Korean, Japanese and Swedish.

    screen 2017-04-15 at 4.31.07 PM.jpg screen 2017-04-15 at 4.51.46 PM.jpg screen 2017-04-15 at 4.54.00 PM.jpg

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  48. #348
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    Quote Originally Posted by decentespresso View Post
    Ben Champion suggested we change the group head design to make experimentation easier, which we've now done. Ben and Ray are now trying several different group head diffuser ideas, some based on calibrated orifices, some on turbulence:

    preview-full-pasted-file-4-1.png preview-full-pasted-file-3.png preview-full-pasted-file-2.png

    All of these are performing well under simulation, and all are much better than the single-hole approach we had (and that you find in other espresso machines). However, it's unlikely that we'll decide which one is the "bee's knees" of diffusers in the next few weeks. We'll likely choose one of the calibrated approaches, because it's known to work well (turbulence is very hard to understand and model).

    We'll keep banging away on these ideas in the months to come, and I'm hoping that once the DE1 is out, other people will join in with their own ideas, and have them CNCed (local CNC cost is about $150 for this part) to see if they work better. With lots of people banging on the problem of even water flow (at low velocity) under varied conditions, I'm hoping that a winning approach will emerge (or maybe several). We'll be posting the CAD files for our own ideas, in case you want to start with that and modify it.

    Here's what some of the simulations look like. We're trying to have even water flow, but also quite low velocity, to minimise "drilling into" the coffee puck, at varied pressures and flow rates.

    Our next set of simulations, which Ben has started to work on, involve simulating the puck's absorption of water. We're hoping to gain a better understanding of what happens during preinfusion through this work.

    preview-full-pasted-file-9.png preview-full-pasted-file-10.png
    John, Would be interesting to see whether there would be any impact from changing the orientation (or length) of the inlet piping. From the simulation results, looks like the change in direction in the elbow might be influencing the flow through the distributor (more bends in series typically makes this worse).

    What is it being modelled in? There looks to be some high velocities in areas I would not expect.

    I would hazard a guess that the way the chamber fills at the beginning of the shot (they real meaning of pre-infusion?) would be more important than pressure drop mid shot.

    The easiest way to reduce velocity is to increase the flow area

  49. #349
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrJack View Post
    The easiest way to reduce velocity is to increase the flow area
    This is being modelled in solidworks, and there are LOTS more images to post, but this forum software limits the number of graphics per posting. If you've got an engineering background and would like to join in the conversation, I'd be happy add you to the engineer's forum that is discussing this.

    At the moment, the best performing design in simulation is Ben's, which uses turbulence to reduce velocity. However, we haven't tested it in the real world, and my self-imposed end-of-R&D deadline is coming up in two weeks.

    We're going to need to pick a design which "works well in simulation" and "works well in the real world" on to start with that, with the understanding that coming up with an ideal design might take another 10 months of iterating between design, simulation, CNCing, debating and real world testing. Regardless, this design will perform a lot better than the single-hole design we had before, but there's room for improvement.
    Last edited by decentespresso; 17th April 2017 at 12:00 PM.
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    A demo of our DE1 Espresso Machine tablet interface.


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