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Thread: what water filter

  1. #1
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    what water filter

    If I buy a Lelit Mara or a Profitec 500 do I need a special water filter to fill the machine water tank or is there on built in? if needed what type/make is the go

  2. #2
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    A lot will depend on what state, city/town or suburb. It seems the quality of water, although safe to drink reacts different when at hot boiling temps with the metal in boilers. I have actually seen quite tall stalagmites growing quietly in a kettle at Esperance WA. It was scary!

  3. #3
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    I live in the Newcastle area and have had a Breville dual boiler since 2011 and have had a few problems lately with it getting to hot but I thought that was an electrical problem

  4. #4
    Site Sponsor Casa Espresso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tonym1 View Post
    I live in the Newcastle area and have had a Breville dual boiler since 2011 and have had a few problems lately with it getting to hot but I thought that was an electrical problem
    Hi Tony,

    Location certainly does play a part in water quality. Perth and Adelaide are probably the worst and require extra care.

    Neither of those machines have a built in filter (most machines don't have one I would consider a filter).

    The ultimate system is to plumb in an under bench system like a Brita C50, but it really depends how far you want to go.

    I would certainly recommend some sort of system, even if it is a basic sediment filter on your tap.

    Cheers
    Antony

  5. #5
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    what water filter

    Hi Tony.
    Here's a link to a great thread on water filtration: Filtration for Espresso Machines- Compulsory Reading
    Enjoy, Paul
    Last edited by K_Bean_Coffee; 9th January 2017 at 09:58 AM.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    While I'm sure retailers would love to sell you a bells and whistles filtration system I'm still of the opinion that as long as your water supply is of reasonable quality a filter is an unnecessary complication and expense.

    My home water supply is <> 100 ppm, I don't use a filter and never have, have owned a few of espresso machines over the years, scale has never caused problems.

    I do descale every three months with Cafetto Restore, and as far as the chemicals eating away your boiler and plumbing, in the words of a metallurgist friend of mine, rubbish.

    My current HX machine is well over seven years old and is still running like a Swiss watch.
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  7. #7
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    Find an aquarium shop and buy a water hardness test kit so see how badly your water really is. I wouldn't buy the cheapest but no need to spent $50+. API are okay and Salifert were good without going nuts. I never really like test strips as found they were in consistent but that was when testing very important parameters ins marine fish tank so for what where testing strips should be fine.
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  8. #8
    Senior Member LFM60's Avatar
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    To unintentionally add some confusion to the conversation, we have a relatively inexpensive Brita Optimax container (for drinking water). Tap water here is foul.

    It holds about 8.5 litres of which 5.5 litres is filtered and 3 litres top reservoir.

    I fill a 2 litre plastic jug from the Brita and pour into the espresso machine tank which works ok.

    Not as convenient as a plumbed in under sink system but does the job.

    Similar to this below.........

    .image.jpeg

  9. #9
    Site Sponsor Di_Bartoli's Avatar
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    Hi Tonym1,

    We found the Aqua pro to be very effective for a counter top unit. You may find this link useful:
    http://dibartoli.com.au/water-filtration-1/

    Ofra
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  10. #10
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mb21 View Post
    Find an aquarium shop and buy a water hardness test kit so see how badly your water really is. I wouldn't buy the cheapest but no need to spent $50+. API are okay and Salifert were good without going nuts. I never really like test strips as found they were in consistent but that was when testing very important parameters ins marine fish tank so for what where testing strips should be fine.
    Test strips here Water Hardness Test strips at Jetblack Espresso $10 for 5, your local hardware store should have them as well at a similar price.
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  11. #11
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    thanks all there's a heap of info here, I'll start by getting some test strips and find out what my water is like.

  12. #12
    Senior Member BalthazarG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tonym1 View Post
    ...there's a heap of info here, I'll start by getting some test strips and find out what my water is like.
    Haha, too much info if you ask me. Unfortunately it has to be grudgingly trundled through. Have some paracetamol at the ready.

  13. #13
    Site Sponsor Di_Bartoli's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BalthazarG View Post
    Haha, too much info if you ask me. Unfortunately it has to be grudgingly trundled through. Have some paracetamol at the ready.
    Agree BalthazarG,

    To avoid the paracetamol, I'll be focusing on advice given specifically for Prosumer machines, not commercial, for counter top rather then plumbed in and for a solution that employs 'Ion Exchange Resin' which reduces TH down to safe levels without affecting the PH in the water.
    Water strips can also be found here:
    http://dibartoli.com.au/water-hardne...t-strips-x-10/

    Ofra

  14. #14
    Senior Member noonar's Avatar
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    Hi tonym1,

    Your local water corp will publish water testing results for your area, mine are available quarterly as a PDF via their website - it's a good starting point. Most (?) aquariam/pet shops will test your water for you for a minimal, if any, fee. The main reason for filtering is to protect your investment from the hardware damaging effects of poor quality water supply. My machine would be FUBAR in no time if I did not minimise the scale producing properties of the WA water supply. It costs me $140 per year in filters. It cost me $200 for a plumber to under sink my system and plumb my espresso machine. Originally I set it up it the laundry with a T fitting off the washing machine inlet and jugged the water - when my machine was run from internal tank - this set up cost me $20 in fittings. I find having a plumbed set up very satisfying and removes the mine v yours turn to fill the jug quarrels. I now use the aquarium supplied testing packs monthly to ensure filter integrity.

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    The latest results of water hardness published by the water supplier for my area says 15 to 55, so it is considered soft water.
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  16. #16
    Senior Member noonar's Avatar
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    Probably no need to filter for scale then. Taste is a different matter - once my machine was running I sampled cooled unfiltered water from the group to bottled water (3 kinds) not from the group, for taste comparison. Without the filter there was a sparkly chlorine taste to my group water in comparison to the bottled stuff. With the filter it tastes sweeter than the bottled IMO and the Head of Tasting's too.
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  17. #17
    Senior Member Bosco_Lever's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LFM60 View Post
    To unintentionally add some confusion to the conversation, we have a relatively inexpensive Brita Optimax container (for drinking water). Tap water here is foul.
    Foul tap water in SE QLD????? Not sure what area you are in, but SE QLD has some of the best water in the country (excluding Tassie). Tap water is very drinkable. In my GC home, we have a 2 filter setup (sediment & carbon). The difference post filtration is noticeable and the water is better than any bottled stuff. However, straight out of the tap it is very good, especially when compared to SA and WA.
    SA tapwater is undrinkable, but some are used to it. When you understand the processes, paths, reservoirs and sources of the tap water in SA; you get a good picture of why it tastes the way it does. Not all the info is easily accessible to the public.

  18. #18
    Senior Member LFM60's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bosco_Lever View Post
    Foul tap water in SE QLD????? Not sure what area you are in, but SE QLD has some of the best water in the country (excluding Tassie). Tap water is very drinkable. In my GC home, we have a 2 filter setup (sediment & carbon). The difference post filtration is noticeable and the water is better than any bottled stuff. However, straight out of the tap it is very good, especially when compared to SA and WA.
    SA tapwater is undrinkable, but some are used to it. When you understand the processes, paths, reservoirs and sources of the tap water in SA; you get a good picture of why it tastes the way it does. Not all the info is easily accessible to the public.
    Brisbane, Bosco_Lever.

    Maybe foul was too strong a word. A bit much chlorine in the tap water IMHO.
    Just prefer the taste of filtered water.

    I'm a WaterSnob as well as a CoffeeSnob .........unfortunately.

  19. #19
    Senior Member Logga's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=noonar;597664]Probably no need to filter for scale then. Taste is a different matter

    Agree with this, after putting a Brita purity finest C150 filter on the coffee tastes even better.

  20. #20
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bosco_Lever View Post
    SA tapwater is undrinkable, but some are used to it. When you understand the processes, paths, reservoirs and sources of the tap water in SA; you get a good picture of why it tastes the way it does. Not all the info is easily accessible to the public.
    Absolute rubbish, not sure where you glean your misinformation, however whatever the source your being totally mislead.

    "Not all the info is easily accessible to the public." Perhaps you would care to share your opinionated and privileged source of information with us

    May have been the case in the distant past, however nowadays this is a self perpetuating Furphy.

    Not sure how I've rattled your cage however I get the impression you would argue black was white if I offered a contrary opinion.

    Yep, I've traveled a bit and can offer an opinion based on experience.
    Last edited by Yelta; 9th January 2017 at 04:30 PM.
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  21. #21
    Senior Member BalthazarG's Avatar
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    Blimey.

    I'm not sure what it is about these water threads, but they always end up hurtling around jagged circles like a souped-up Gee Whiz in overdrive, until everyone's dizzy and puking.

    Reminds me of an AC/DC song from 2008: "Runaway train (ran....right...off-the-track!).

    Perhaps we should all chill out for a few minutes and just accept the fact that the whole issue of correct-filters-and/or-softeners-to-be-used-with-which-machine-and-in-what-particular-area-depending-on-respective-levels-of-TDS is a complex one that's rife with confusion and disagreement, and obviously in need of further investigation for anyone that's still confused.
    Last edited by BalthazarG; 9th January 2017 at 08:06 PM.
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  22. #22
    Senior Member trentski's Avatar
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    Nah it's simple. Use a filter specifically for reducing scale and as a side effect you get better tasting water.
    I fill the kettle from the same tap I fill the espresso machine from and the kettle is spotless, must be working.

  23. #23
    Senior Member BalthazarG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trentski View Post
    Nah it's simple. Use a filter specifically for reducing scale and as a side effect you get better tasting water.
    Well it would appear that simple at first glance, but you then need to find out which filter would work with your machine, depending on the water quality in your area. Should be straightforward.....

    .....<cue a thousand different opinions>

    The problem is that every Billy Boggs and Old Flo will pitch in & say "what they ended up getting", and why it's the best. Then, someone will disagree.....and away we go again!

  24. #24
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    Yep, opinions are a dime a dozen but if you want to find out whether you should be using a "specific" water filtering regime for your particular situation, visit or talk to a professional. Most of our Site Sponsors deal with these guys on a almost daily basis, so not hard to find out who to talk to...

    Mal.

  25. #25
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    I would like to know if there is actually a filter that would reduce scale in my Rocket boilers.
    I have read heaps and found no clear answer. I am not talking about taste, purity but SCALE!
    So far I have found two clear ideas to add into the normal undersink setups.
    1. An in line resin fridge filter - suppliers no longer sponsors
    2. An in line grandular phosphate cartridge that holds the 'scale' in suspension (my interpretation). This is suggested for home coffee machines in Perth.
    I am rather favoring the second to try this year. I have had trouble with weeping leaks from the first.

  26. #26
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    Hi dumiya,

    Do you have any numbers for your water? They'd help a bit in terms of providing advice...

    Cheers

    2mcm

  27. #27
    Senior Member BalthazarG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dumiya View Post
    I would like to know if there is actually a filter that would reduce scale in my Rocket boilers.
    I have read heaps and found no clear answer. I am not talking about taste, purity but SCALE!
    So far I have found two clear ideas to add into the normal undersink setups.
    1. An in line resin fridge filter - suppliers no longer sponsors
    2. An in line grandular phosphate cartridge that holds the 'scale' in suspension (my interpretation). This is suggested for home coffee machines in Perth.
    I am rather favoring the second to try this year. I have had trouble with weeping leaks from the first.
    What a pain in the arse! David, tell us who recommended your previous filters and we'll lynch' em! It was Bombora, wasn't it? Nooses at the ready....

  28. #28
    Senior Member chokkidog's Avatar
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    100 posts, congratulations...... still waiting for something worth reading.

  29. #29
    Senior Member Bosco_Lever's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yelta View Post
    Absolute rubbish, not sure where you glean your misinformation, however whatever the source your being totally mislead.

    "Not all the info is easily accessible to the public." Perhaps you would care to share your opinionated and privileged source of information with us

    May have been the case in the distant past, however nowadays this is a self perpetuating Furphy.

    Not sure how I've rattled your cage however I get the impression you would argue black was white if I offered a contrary opinion.

    Yep, I've traveled a bit and can offer an opinion based on experience.
    Furphy???????

    Straight out of the mouths of SA Water themselves.
    Lived in SA for over 40 years, have hundreds of relatives and friends living there, and they all agree with my sentiment. You are entitled to your opinion as you always are, but so am I. You tend to deride many opinions and you are are welcome to offer an opposing view.

    Detailed plans of State water infrastructure is only available to those working on major infrastructure projects associated with that department. Something that I have been privy to and will not disclose, due to confidentiality agreements signed.
    I too have travelled, locally and overseas and can offer up an opposing view.

    I travel quite regularly, and my opinion of the water quality in Adelaide is based on a personal assessment of it, both recent and the past. It is still shite.

  30. #30
    Senior Member Bosco_Lever's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LFM60 View Post
    Brisbane, Bosco_Lever.

    Maybe foul was too strong a word. A bit much chlorine in the tap water IMHO.
    Just prefer the taste of filtered water.

    I'm a WaterSnob as well as a CoffeeSnob .........unfortunately.
    Agree with you about the taste of chlorine in the water.
    I filter it for taste also, as I enjoy a glass of water with my espresso.

  31. #31
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bosco_Lever View Post
    Furphy???????

    Straight out of the mouths of SA Water themselves.
    Lived in SA for over 40 years, have hundreds of relatives and friends living there, and they all agree with my sentiment. You are entitled to your opinion as you always are, but so am I. You tend to deride many opinions and you are are welcome to offer an opposing view.

    Detailed plans of State water infrastructure is only available to those working on major infrastructure projects associated with that department. Something that I have been privy to and will not disclose, due to confidentiality agreements signed.
    I too have travelled, locally and overseas and can offer up an opposing view.

    I travel quite regularly, and my opinion of the water quality in Adelaide is based on a personal assessment of it, both recent and the past. It is still shite.
    The term Furphy originated in Victoria, Furphies refer to rumours, supposedly from reliable sources, but usually incorrect, very apt in this instance.

    As a matter of interest I still live in SA, have never had a reason to bail out.

    The only opinions I deride or challenge are those that are obviously flawed, misleading or blatantly commercially motivated.

    "Detailed plans of State water infrastructure is only available to those working on major infrastructure projects associated with that department. Something that I have been privy to and will not disclose, due to confidentiality agreements signed."
    Bought a smile to my dial, easy, but less than original cop-out.

    For anyone that's interested, South Australia! come on in, the water is fine.

    My last word on this topic.

  32. #32
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    Much as I hate to agree with Bosco lever, water testing is only relevant out of the particular domestic tap concerned. The other thing - testing at the main distribution point is irrelevant when it is fed to some dwellings via 100+ year old cast iron pipes. Common in Adelaide and Perth's older suburbs. WA Water Corps do not even release what vintage or material the pipes in a particular area, however copper pipes only became common in the 1930's. That is why our Vic Park (WA) water was brown until you temporarily purged the pipes. If you let it settle out, you could pick up the sediment with a magnet(!), so no prizes for guessing how that suburb was fed... The official figures are a complete fiction, because they pick the most favourable distribution point and give that as the readings for the whole suburb / distribution area (and probably either skim it off near the top or flush it out first to give an even lower reading).

    SA Example: Two of my clients live at opposite ends of Glenelg (SA). The eastern one has good water, the western one rivals Osborne Park (WA '80's) for the worst water in Oz - ever. I have drunk some of the eastern one's water almost "straight out of the tap" (just waiting the chlorine to settle out). Acceptable that way. Both clients hate the taste of tap water in their drinks, so both of them filter everything they drink anyway.

    Also, some Perth suburbs have reasonably good water these days as long as you let it stand for (say) half in hour to get rid of WA Water Corps habit of overchlorinating every drop.

    As a twice filtered (both in and out of tank) rainwater user, I actually carry the rainwater with me if I move my machines to any function. Two reasons - scale and taste - and the latter is far more important to me.

    So Yelta, if your Moonta water is good, fine however I could take you to some real shockers in Adelaide (or Perth, Sydney - try Newtown!!!, or Melbourne, Bris etc.). Move a few blocks and the quality could be quite different because it is a different distribution network.

    There is a difference between potable water and water capable of making a good cuppa (whether coffee, tea, herbal infusion or whatever - if you add water it can affect the result).


    TampIt
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  33. #33
    Senior Member trentski's Avatar
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    I run an everpure 2cb-gw and have minimal scale build up after 5 years. Maybe it's overkill, maybe it's just right but it works. If nothing else I get nicer tasting water to drink.

    Never got my water tested, not sure why everyone says it is so hard, finding a filter not the water
    Last edited by trentski; 10th January 2017 at 02:02 PM.

  34. #34
    Site Sponsor Di_Bartoli's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dimal View Post
    Yep, opinions are a dime a dozen but if you want to find out whether you should be using a "specific" water filtering regime for your particular situation, visit or talk to a professional. Most of our Site Sponsors deal with these guys on a almost daily basis, so not hard to find out who to talk to...

    Mal.
    So very true Mal, thank you
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  35. #35
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    Hello serious coffee drinkers,
    Given that my coffee machines are in a domestic setting,in my opinion,I have no need for the seriously fancy filtration systems.Rainwater as collected via my house/garage roof is all I'll ever need.
    Some of my machines are designed to be plumbed into the reticulated water supply however,I remain of the opinion that rain water,despite the little extra effort,is my preferred option simply due to the lack of chemicals/calcium etc.
    Only cleaning I ever need is the occasional back flushing cleaning powder,just to keep clear of oil buildup.
    Coffee machines in commercial situations or owners who can't be bothered with tank supplies do obviously need to seek adequate filtration systems.
    I'm happy with my system of water supply and so are my coffee machines.
    Good luck with whatever system you choose.
    Cheers,
    Mick.
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  36. #36
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    Domestic machine can be more prone to scale than commercial units. The reason is that water stagnates for longer in domestic units.

    Commercial machines are constantly replacing the water in the boiler with fresh water because they are in near continuous use.

    Rainwater is a special case though and its quality can depend on the cleanliness of the catchment surface and the quality of the pipes and storage. Best case, rainwater is lovely stuff.
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