View Poll Results: Is the upgrade worth it ? 2002 Giotto to new Giotto PID

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  • Yes

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  • 4 Post By dumiya
  • 2 Post By Di_Bartoli
  • 4 Post By 2muchcoffeeman
  • 1 Post By dumiya
  • 2 Post By trentski
  • 1 Post By dumiya
  • 1 Post By K_Bean_Coffee
  • 3 Post By Yelta
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  • 2 Post By flynnaus
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Thread: Upgrade my 2002 Giotto to a new Giotto V3 PID ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?

  1. #1
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    Upgrade my 2002 Giotto to a new Giotto V3 PID ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?

    Here is the deal - Currently using a 2002 model Giotto and it has been a great machine for us for over 8 years. However its getting on and I was thinking of upgrading.

    We came into basically $3000 for the sale of something that cost me nothing - so I am keen to buy a brand new Giotto with PID.

    Thoughts ? ?

    Would this be a sensible upgrade ? pretty sure I can get $1000 for my giotto.

  2. #2
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    You will find that the Giotto PID is a huge leap forward.
    I find that the Giotto V3 was a significant improvement on the '05 Premuim.
    At that level most brands use common parts. I have easily been able to source parts and service for the 05 Premium as they are so popular. The same will apply with the V3. Some feel that the hidden PID display is a disadvantage but once set it is rarely used if at all. Lots of nice steam and the simplicity of being an HX is in its favour.
    I suggest you buy from a sponsor who will set up what you end up buying corrected and check it out for you.
    Do you have a good grinder!
    Just my thoughts.

  3. #3
    Site Sponsor K_Bean_Coffee's Avatar
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    I don't know where you are located but if you're able to see the Profitec Pro 500 and ECM Technika IV, try to make the time. It's really worth taking a look.
    Cheers Paul

  4. #4
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    Im in Townsville - north qld where no-one sells a decent coffee machine ! using a Rocky grinder thats about 5 years old

  5. #5
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    If you are happy with the results of a Rocky then that's good. There are better grinders but old Rocky does a great job. I have only just sold my '05 Rocky.
    I am sticking my neck out:-
    I would not be too deflected to look at different machines. The choices just get more complicated for minimal differences. It can get more and more confusing and full of doubts, then you always wonder if you made the right choice. If your old Giotto has give good service and you have been happy with, then it is a make you can trust.
    Sponsors will ship to you, but living where you are makes hands on choices difficult.
    I would get as much feed back from owners of your initial thoughts of a V3. I hope they will respond. Several sponsors sell them so a phone call for genuine advice would be helpful. Our '08 Giotto Premium was shipped to WA by TalkCoffee and I have had years of help and advice and parts sorted out by him. Other sponsors will no doubt be keen to help, yes because they want to make a sale but most mainly because they love coffee and are proud of the selected machines they stock.
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  6. #6
    Site Sponsor Di_Bartoli's Avatar
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    Upgrade my 2002 Giotto to a new Giotto V3 PID ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?

    Quote Originally Posted by dumiya View Post
    ...Other sponsors will no doubt be keen to help, yes because they want to make a sale but most mainly because they love coffee and are proud of the selected machines they stock.
    Thank you dumiya, so very true but for us it's so much more. Yes, selling gear is what keeps us going but it isn't why we are in coffee nor the reason to why we do what we do.
    As a boutique roaster, an educational business, and one that is predominantly designed for the home barista, we are madly in love with coffee and intimately familiar with all its stages from cherry to cup. We are also passionate about people which gives us another edge to our work with the sole purpose of our existence is rubbing this passion on as many home users as we can and helping them achieving the beauty and complexity of flavors we get to enjoy every day. It's not about selling, it's about partnership, and mutual growth.

    I only wish more snobs would realize that behind the often shouty promotion on this forum, there are sponsors out there who will go the extra mile, remain objetive and professional, and not only share the wealth of knowledge in matching a machine to your specific 'culture' but also support you every step of the way after your purchase. We get the kick out of the relationship we develop with you, not from selling you a box. So don't be afraid to contact us for a non biased opinion as you may be surprised of the experience.

    Ofra
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  7. #7
    Senior Member 2muchcoffeeman's Avatar
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    Hi acdc,

    If you have a Giotto premium, I don't see your choice as a logical upgrade tbh unless your 2002 is cactus. It's a crossgrade into more of the same in my opinion. If it's a classic, you would see improved steam pressure.

    You would get an upgrade if you wanted a rotary pump or a dual boiler PID machine, but all you would really get if you're buying the buying the same machine would be pretty and another gauge.

    I think you should review your options. Perhaps a thorough service and keep the rest for something else may also be an option?

    2mcm
    Last edited by 2muchcoffeeman; 16th January 2017 at 08:41 AM. Reason: typo and more info
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  8. #8
    Site Sponsor K_Bean_Coffee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dumiya View Post
    Other sponsors will no doubt be keen to help, yes because they want to make a sale but most mainly because they love coffee and are proud of the selected machines they stock.
    Absolutely - nicely put Most (probably all) of us sponsors started out as hobbiests and put the hobby before the $.
    I have shipped to the furthest corners of the land and service has never been a problem. There's something called a "phone" and yes, sometimes I even Skype with customers for "virtual training." Not as good as face-to-face, but it's still pretty effective.
    Buy from a site sponsor if you value after sales service

  9. #9
    Site Sponsor K_Bean_Coffee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2muchcoffeeman View Post
    ....If you have a Giotto premium, I don't see your choice as a logical upgrade tbh unless your 2002 is cactus. It's a crossgrade into more of the same in my opinion.
    Good point. It's a bit of a sideways move really. Think about heading a little upwards.

  10. #10
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    K Bean - what would your thoughts be on a "little upwards" - keeping in mind that my budget is $3000.

    Thanks

    Craig

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by acdc View Post
    K Bean - what would your thoughts be on a "little upwards" - keeping in mind that my budget is $3000.
    Hi Craig. Do some more reading on the forum and you will find numerous great HX e61 machines under $3k. Buyers guides are always a good place to start. There are lots of them. Mine's here: www.kbean.com.au
    You are welcome to call me any time as a 10 minute chat can really help.
    Cheers, Paul - 0416528339

  12. #12
    Senior Member trentski's Avatar
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    Cant dee that another hx would be an upgrade even with a rotary pump.

    What improvements are you after?

  13. #13
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    My only additional thoughts would be:
    Considering your distant location, your obvious love of coffee and the age of your Giotto there is the increasing likehood of the need for major work. You have not indicated if you had work done on your unit, other than replacing user friendly parts. On my Premium I have had to replace modules and the gauge, revised wiring as in the Plus, then last year leaks from a tee piece under the boiler and a stuck extraction solenoid had to be done by a local service agent. There have been improvements, may be marginal but the V3 is all new and the same build quality as the Premium. The Premium is at work repaired and still making superb coffee.
    We just felt it was time, and we were able to do it.
    A good equivalent double boiler is around $4k which is outside your budget.
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  14. #14
    Senior Member trentski's Avatar
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    Give the gpp a service and buy a new grinder
    Andy and K_Bean_Coffee like this.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by trentski View Post
    Give the gpp a service and buy a new grinder
    +1 i agree the rocky is such a weak link.

  16. #16
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    Well these latest post are high praise indeed for the Giotto/Rocket. I am well pleased I stayed with the make.
    My only concern is that your Giotto is 15 years old and whether you are easily able to have the Giotto serviced/repaired nearby by some one who knows he/she is doing. We hear bad stories quite often, or huge distances to travel.
    Last edited by dumiya; 16th January 2017 at 11:12 PM.
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by dumiya View Post
    My only concern is that your Giotto is 15 years old and whether you are easily able to have the Giotto serviced/repaired nearby by some one who knows he/she is doing. We hear bad stories quite often, or huge distances to travel.
    If you're handy you could try servicing it yourself. e61 parts kits are cheap and there are plenty of online guides and YouTube vids that will show you the steps. The e61 is effective and also, simple. That's the beauty of it.
    Cheers, Paul
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  18. #18
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deity6667 View Post
    +1 i agree the rocky is such a weak link.
    Nope! the Rocky is a pretty good little grinder, far worse on the market.

    With normal maintenance, the Rocky will give years of espresso service.
    Dimal, Casa Espresso and LFM60 like this.

  19. #19
    Site Sponsor Di_Bartoli's Avatar
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    Hi acdc,

    I'd like to share with you few insights from Di Bartoli's experience, you may find it useful:

    1. We've been servicing Prosumer Equipment for 15 years now so we'd seen all there is to see and got some impressive stats on what goes wrong and why, and how machines are aging. We sometimes make the recommendation not to proceed with a repair as it'll cost $$$ with no guarantee another part won't fail straight after. We do see 10+ years Giotto coming in but most owners end up going down the upgrade lane for the peace of mind, reducing repair bill cost and getting a chance to improve coffee quality. We also see 10+ years Bezzeras, Wegas, and some Isomacs. This means 2 things:
    1. These brands do stand the test of time
    2. Other brands may as well, but just too young to be part of the 10+ years stats.

    2. No You tube watching is required for light servicing of your Giotto. If you do decide to resuscitate it for a little longer, you can order all parts from us online and get our service expert to phone guide you. All our mechanically oriented remote clients enjoy this service regularly as good local agent is often hard to come by.

    3. As for what WOULD be an upgrade for you within budget, this is what our QUEST does best, you're welcome to drop by for some clear answers.
    http://bit.ly/DBquest

    Hope this helps,
    Ofra
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  20. #20
    Site Sponsor Casa Espresso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yelta View Post
    Nope! the Rocky is a pretty good little grinder, far worse on the market.

    With normal maintenance, the Rocky will give years of espresso service.
    Agreed! Nothing wrong with the Rocky at all. There are better grinders around but at a price. Bank for your buck the Rocky is a great unit
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  21. #21
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Di_Bartoli View Post
    Hi acdc,

    I'd like to share with you few insights from Di Bartoli's experience, you may find it useful:

    We also see 10+ years Bezzeras, Wegas, and some Isomacs. This means 2 things:
    1. These brands do stand the test of time
    2. Other brands may as well, but just too young to be part of the 10+ years stats.


    Ofra
    Bit like trying to pick a winner in a horse race Ofra, plenty to consider, breeding, track record, trainers reputation etc, or you can walk over to the mounting yard and pick some glossy show pony bouncing around like a jumping bean, probably won't see the distance but geez! don't it look good.

  22. #22
    Senior Member flynnaus's Avatar
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    The consensus is that the upgrade from a Giotto Classic 2002 to a Giotto Premium Plus V3 isn't really worth it. I agree with this if the intent is to obtain a better coffee, assuming acdc's Giotto is in good nick. Likewise with the Rocky: you might need to head into conical grinder territory to achieve a better result in the cup (assuming the Rocky's burrs are in good nick) .

    However, I do agree with Ofra (Di Bartoli) and the "peace of mind" factor. I would recommend flogging the Giotto and Rocky while (or if) in still good working condition and investing in a new package deal. From that point of view, upgrading to a Rocket Giotto V3 is a sensible upgrade but also consider other equipment. As Yelta suggested, stick with the tried and proven brands like Rocket, VBM, Bezzera for proven quality and longevity.
    Di_Bartoli and dlight like this.

  23. #23
    Site Sponsor Di_Bartoli's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yelta View Post
    Bit like trying to pick a winner in a horse race Ofra, plenty to consider, breeding, track record, trainers reputation etc, or you can walk over to the mounting yard and pick some glossy show pony bouncing around like a jumping bean, probably won't see the distance but geez! don't it look good.
    I agree totally, Yelta, but you'll be surprised how many of the 10,000 aspiring home Baristas passing our doors in the last 11 years in di bartoli have asked us that question. It may not be relevant to you but our research shows that longevity is rated high in the overall decision making of most people looking for these level of machines. If getting an inside information from someone who'd been fixing these machines for the past 15 years on what breaks, why and how often isn't an indication to overall brand longevity I don't know what is. Mind you, we always start the sentence with: 'over 70% of all breakdowns are attributed to user's operation'..
    There isn't only 1 factor one should base their decision on. But there is always that 1 or 2 factors which will sway the verdict to one side or the other as all other factors are similar. For some it's the size of the boiler, for others location, or for others reputation, pedigree, brand recognition and history. Breakdown statistic will fall into the latter.
    Dimal likes this.

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