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Thread: Transition to Rocket Cellini, struggling with steam wand

  1. #1
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    Transition to Rocket Cellini, struggling with steam wand

    Hi guys,

    Have been wrestling with the steam wand on a Rocket Cellini the last few weeks and not winning! It's a double hole tip and has more power than anything I've used before (milk is hot in 10 seconds instead of 60+), I can get reasonable results but nothing close to the silk-paint I used to get with my lower power breville 870.

    Particularly having problems when only doing < 200ml of milk for a small flat white, which was never a problem with the breville. I can texture it alright but it always seems to end up with visible bubbles throughout. Does anyone else struggle with the factory tip on the Rockets? Is this what I should be looking at, or changing technique?

    Thanks in advance!
    Josh

    Rocket.jpg

  2. #2
    Senior Member coffeechris's Avatar
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    What is your technique? I personally cant speak for the machine you are using, however i experienced the same issue years ago when going from a Sunbeam to my Expobar. the technique is what i changed and it seems to work. I tend to have the tip on top of the milk in the middle of the jug. till approx 40deg then drop it a little and only slow slightly slow the steam down when coming close to the end.

    Im not saying this is right, however it works for me. Thats said is it an issue with you milk?

    Cheers,

    Chris

  3. #3
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    I'm using the same milk I used with the old machine. I find it very hard to describe technique since we're talking about two different objects in 3 axis's but basically I'd have the jug slightly tilted, wand at an angle to the milk, about half way out on the whirlpool. I'd surf the whirlpool about 10 seconds barely puling air, and the tip would submerge itself as the milk expanded slightly, then hold this position until heated. Would produce silky milk every time. So I have tried more or less the same technique, acheiving the same effect on the milk (i.e. swirling folding action) and it's not until stopping the steam you realise it's still bubbly every time.

    I've heard of the vertical centred method, it seems conterintuitive to me that there would be no swirling action but it can't hurt to try I will give it a shot and report back!

    Cheers,
    Josh
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  4. #4
    Senior Member trentski's Avatar
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    I put the tip just under the surface towards the side of the jug and leave the jug on the drip tray. As the milk stretches the wand gets deeper and then when at temp i stop steaming.
    Rocket gpp with stock tip
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  5. #5
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    +1. I get fantastic fine foam with the HX Rockets. It is getting the depth and angle right. The steam pressure is great so the position hast to be almost right from the start. For the HX Rockets I angle the wand close to the edge for a horizontal swirl. For the R58 double boiler the wand hast to be vertical for a vertical swirl - to illustrate that each has its own requirements.
    Great machines
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  6. #6
    Senior Member Stan's Avatar
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    I would suggest that the wand be close to vertical or the least angle possible. if you have it on an angle (say 45deg) it will blow bubbles. I have recently bought a similar machine and was having the same trouble. I am now getting close to the target.

  7. #7
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    Another way to practice without wasting milk is to use water in the jug with one tiny drop of dishwashing liquid.
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  8. #8
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    Josh, I have a rocket as well. As mentioned above I let the jug sit on the drip tray the whole process. Place the wand just under the surface, in the middle and at a slight angle to allow sucking in air for only a few seconds. If you want a cappuccino then move the wand up a bit so it is still close to the surface and sucking in air for a few more seconds. You'll hear the slurp. Then move it to the side but below the surface to get the whirlpool happening till you reach your desired temperature. If you want a flat white then leave out that step where you keep the wand close to the surface. This works perfectly for me. Practice hard. I wasted many litres of milk until I got the hang of it.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by trentski View Post
    I put the tip just under the surface towards the side of the jug and leave the jug on the drip tray. As the milk stretches the wand gets deeper and then when at temp i stop steaming.
    Rocket gpp with stock tip
    I tried this after reading and got the best results I've had yet. It still had bubbles on the surface after stopping but one crack on the bench seemed to get rid of nearly all of them and leave fairly good milk behind but still room to improve. I think I'll pursue this technique a while longer!

    I will give the vertical swirl a go too. Will report back. Thanks for all answers !
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by herzog View Post
    Another way to practice without wasting milk is to use water in the jug with one tiny drop of dishwashing liquid.
    Will give this a go too I'll be interested to see how similar it is.

  11. #11
    Senior Member Brewster's Avatar
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    Hi JoshNZ.
    Some good advice here already.
    This thread was the goto for many snobs for a long time (and still is)
    Some tricks for creating great microfoam

    Cheers.
    Mal

  12. #12
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    Transition to Rocket Cellini, struggling with steam wand

    Just put pitcher in drip tray and point steam wand at this level red one in middle 1/3 Rt or Lt of pitcher , open steam mid way and wait till it will reach 60-65 degrees.Enjoy silky appearance.

  13. #13
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    I have played with this technique a bit more over the last couple of days and it's definitely the ticket. Haven't quite got perfect silk yet but I have got what I'd call accetable and am sure with practice will get it to where it needs to be.

    Thanks a lot for all the tips, glad it was an easy fix!

    Josh
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  14. #14
    Senior Member Logga's Avatar
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    Maybe the set of four steam tips Rocket sell mite help you.

  15. #15
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    +1 on that. I learned on a big commercial. And instead of wasting milk you can emulate frothing milk by adding one drop of dishwashing liquid to a jug of water. Works a treat but don't drink it:-p
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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Logga View Post
    Maybe the set of four steam tips Rocket sell mite help you.
    I tried many times, Fast and difficult, ended with small bubbles.

  17. #17
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    4 holes - too much steam - too fast - runs out of puff - would need tremendous skill - requires dead accuracy - tears!
    Just my experience.

    Ah, I notice that the angle of the jets on the R58 are wider than the angle on the Rocket Premium. The Premium is easier to use and doesn't require positioning the wand tip accurately and can be angled for a good swirl. The R58 is extremely fussy and requires an olmost verticle tip unless you desire huge bubbles.
    I am not sure what the Cellini angles are, it will make a difference.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by doody21 View Post
    I tried many times, Fast and difficult, ended with small bubbles.
    I've found that is the problem with the two hole tip also. I find I get to temp and would really love another 10 seconds or so of folding.

    I found with latte art no matter how many tutorials or practice attempts I had, I could never quite get it, until eventually I just could. Now even with a frothy bubble bath I can pour a nice rosetta, it sort of makes me wonder why or how I ever couldn't, even though I never really had a 'ureka' moment. I imagine the milk frothing learning process is a similar thing!
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  19. #19
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    Have also found with leaving the pitcher in the drip tray like this, I'm getting a bit of loose stuff on top of the milk, I always have to 'throw' the iceberg off the top and tap a couple of times and then I have nice milk left in the bottom.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by K_Bean_Coffee View Post
    Hi Josh,
    Have you tried backing off the steam volume by not fully opening the steam value? That will slow it down.
    Cheers, Paul
    Yes I have played around with steam pressure, hard to see results when my technique is inconsistent anyway. I think I just need to nail down a position where good folding occurs and learn what it looks like properly.

  21. #21
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    An old trick I've used is keeping your jug in the fridge until you need it. That gives you more time to recover from too many bubbles at the start of the process.
    kbc likes this.

  22. #22
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by K_Bean_Coffee View Post
    I'm a huge fan of 4 hole tips. Try one out
    I do believe that "Logga" was referring to this kit...

    SteamTips.JPG

    Mal.
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  23. #23
    Senior Member Logga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dimal View Post
    I do believe that "Logga" was referring to this kit...

    SteamTips.JPG

    Mal.
    Yes you are correct Mal, thank you.
    Dimal likes this.

  24. #24
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    Getting better and better each time, thanks for the help again guys! Back to enjoying smooth flat whites

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