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Thread: ECM or Profitec

  1. #1
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    ECM or Profitec

    Hi There

    Just after some help in deciding between machines.

    Being in Perth, I have been able to see and feel the ECM Mechanika and Technika however like the look of the Profitec Pro 500 also. Problem is, I can't see it in Perth.

    Can anyone help me decide between the 2? It's a big investment to buy something without ever seeing or feeling it.

    I like that the ECM machines - particularly the lever ones felt strong and sturdy. Didn't feel cheap or tinny as I felt others did.

    Anyway, would love some guidance.

    Thanks

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    Segafredo Zanetti in North Perth had a Profitec 500 a while ago but I'm guessing they sold it? I've had my ECM Technika for 12 months now and I love it, especially the lever steam valve. I also love the rotary pump, it's super quiet compared to vib pumps I've heard on similar spec machines like the Vibiemme Domobar and Rocket Giotto, but I've read many that say the Profitec is super quiet for a vib pump. Good luck with the decision.

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    Tough call to make, since all three machines come from the same German drawing board with similar build quality. The common word is the Profitec is particularly quiet for a vibration pump machine and it receives very good reviews for its internal parts lay-out and serviceability. In NL it also comes at a better price than the ECM machines. I think it is safe to assume that quality in the cup won't be noticeably different for either one, so were I in your shoes I think I would gravitate towards the Profitec.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Barry O'Speedwagon's Avatar
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    I would gravitate towards the machine that you are most likely to be able get reliable local service on (so if you buy interstate, check on service arrangement within warranty).
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    Thanks very much for your responses.

    I have asked about servicing Barry O'Speedwagon and apparently there are service agents locally for both types of machine.

    Stu76, thanks for that. I didn't ring them because they don't advertise the Profitec on their website so didn't realise they had it but will contact them tomorrow.

    I would prefer to purchase through a sponsor as unfortunately have never received good advice from suppliers in Perth sadly, but it would be good to be able to see it prior to purchase.

    Thanks again.

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    Stu76, just had another look on the Segafredo website and saw it hahaha. How did I miss it in the first place

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    Trouble is they don't hold a lot of stock. I wanted to see one a year ago and gave up waiting. They used to service my Breville though and I can recommend them from that perspective.

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    I'd go Profitec as it uses copper boiler. not a fan of stainless steel (ECM).

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by WACoffee View Post
    Stu76, just had another look on the Segafredo website and saw it hahaha. How did I miss it in the first place
    I purchased my Profitec 700 Pro from these guys, there are service options in Perth.
    Good luck with your purchase!!

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by sacsnob View Post
    I'd go Profitec as it uses copper boiler. not a fan of stainless steel (ECM).
    Interesting! How come?
    All I've heard is that Stainless Steel is preferred due to better and more long-lasting.

  11. #11
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    Copper boilers will heat up better than the stainless counterparts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tanax View Post
    Interesting! How come?
    All I've heard is that Stainless Steel is preferred due to better and more long-lasting.
    Copper / Brass versus Stainless Steel

    There have been a few discussions here in the past.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by sacsnob View Post
    Copper / Brass versus Stainless Steel

    There have been a few discussions here in the past.
    I would be more interesting to hear your specific reason(s).

  14. #14
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    Copper and it's alloys have a higher thermal conductivity. It's also why they are often used as a sandwich layer in cookware (usually between stainless steel or aluminium) Stainless steels have poor thermal conductivity, poor resistance to chlorine and chloramine, fluorides et al present in 'town' water supplies. For an espresso machine application, dissolved salts are a big no-no, and the water supply should always be properly conditioned and filtrerd to sub-micron levels to ensure consistency in flavour but also - more importantly so - to reduce contaminants in the machine and the likelihood of requiring more frequent and extensive maintenance.

    It's not enough to just quip " It would be more interesting to hear your specific reasons" - if you don't have an understanding of water chemistry - particularly outside a major australian capital city.

    As someone who spent years in govt taking water quality samples from regional qld, not limited to dams, both public and private, creeks, rivers and licenced stock and irrigation bores I can truthfully say that the majority of people don't have a clue what is actually "in" their water.

    For a coffee machine, especially in an urban environment, filtration on the supply is mandatory. conditioning is also highly desireable - but can lead to a significant but perhaps unnecessary expense, unless the supply is sampled and tested. It depends on where your supply is drawn from, and what infrastructure it travels through, which in turn determines your requirements - and it is also highly variable seasonally. So it's not a "one-time" sample. It really needs to be done several times over the first year, and additionaly in times of higher than average rainfall and during extensive drought.

    enough water chem blab...

    Ask any service guy what the #1 killer of a machine is - lack of maintenance and scale buildup. Scale comes from an accumulation of the dissolved salts and post-treatment chemical additions that precipitate from the water as it's cycled through the machine. It's easily preventable, but the harsh chemicals required to remove it will have a negative effect on the stainless steel, resulting in pitting of the boiler, which ironically is what the dissolved salts and post-treatment additives do to the stainless steel in the boiler itself anyway... It's another reason why copper is used. Thermal stability and heat cycling, embrittlement - all additional reasons a stainless boiler is a no-no in a home-use machine.
    In a group head, you want high conductivity and thermal stability. this is why copper and brass are used, and it's often chrome plated for additional protection against acids. the brass used is DR (dezincification resistant) so that 'bad' water has little effect on the loss of the zinc from the alloy.

    But forget about the boiler and group materials for a second.

    Focus on the quality of the water supply, and the historically proven reliability of the machine you intend on purchasing.
    I would recommend a rotary pump machine over a vibrator every day of the week. Every time.
    They are worth the small additional outlay, are very long-lived if the water quality is decent and they are correctly plumbed.

    Pressure inlet needs to be regulated on all mains supply machines, and the filtration needs to be done before the pressure regulator.
    an underbench unit such as an everpure works well for even a commercial installation - although cartridge choices are somewhat daunting if you are not sure of your water quality.
    Here in the illawarra, I can use a submicron 4H - which is not easy to find anymore and has allegedly been discontinued and replaced with a 4FC-S, but I can still get them from Pedro @coffeeparts, who was recommended to me by a fellow 'snob years ago. Your particular installation may require something completely different - which is why you sample and test, so you choose the correct filtration media and avoid unnecessary expense or waste.

    Machine?
    ECM.

    I'm biased. I have a Raffaello megaline A2. I bought it s/h and completely restored it then posted some stuff on here about 4 years ago. It has been faultless since and only needed minor annual maintenance, shower screens and group head seals, one set of group head solenoids jets and screens (just 3 weeks ago) which in the longrun has cost me next to nothing in the 4 years it's been in continuous use on the kitchen bench. All up it cost me way less than a new machine - but I did all the work myself and obviously that saved me a lot of money.

    Why do I think an ECM is a good idea?
    Every part for my machine, and even older ones is still available.
    Nothing is ridiculously expensive - except - the control unit and pads on the touchpad solenoid models. If you choose an e61, you have less to worry about, and perhaps slightly more frequent maintenance intervals on the infusion, brew and drain valve assembly. I think they would equalize in cost over the same ownership period - maybe someone with more ownership experience could chime in with actual costs over 5 years.

    On the solenoid control unit machines, everything other than the Gicar control unit and touchpads is an easy DIY by my standards. Having said that, If you don't understand the dangers of mains AC and water then you shouldn't go inside a machine ever.
    For me Troubleshooting the Gicar control units is a little more fun, but the reality is that replacement cost although high, is cheaper than time taken to trace, desolder, replace and retest then reinstall.
    And if you're a true 'snob, and something does happen to your beloved machine, then you cannot go and buy a coffee from up the road, because it's not good enough - so you get in there and fix that machine and have yourself a satisfying crema when it's done.

    I've looked inside quite a lot of modern twin boilers and HX machines. I still think the Vibiemme (VBM) and ECM are the pick of the bunch for the quality and $$$ outlay - I say that because I cannot afford a Slayer or a Kees (and question the exhorbitant pricing).

    If the technika is your thing, I'd only say make sure you buy the rotary pump one. The pumps are more reliable and easily replaced and have a very very long life in tough conditions.

    Having said that-
    Buy the best machine that your budget can manage which suits your requirements - but if it can manage a HX or twin with a rotary pump and an e61 head then you're well and truly at the pointy end of machines, and can probably afford most any machine you prefer.
    You might also want to give decent consideration to the installation costs associated with a fixed install mains pressure machine - filtration, conditioning and pressure regulation, drainage.

    thats my $0.05

    I'd be interested to hear if anyone has anything particularly bad to say about either brand I mentioned above. It's always good to hear some of the negatives - I just haven't had any... yet !
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeB View Post
    It's not enough to just quip " It would be more interesting to hear your specific reasons" - if you don't have an understanding of water chemistry - particularly outside a major australian capital city.
    Joe that was a really useful and informative post, Thanks

    I must say I think it is a bit rich to suggest a guy from Sweden shouldn't ask a question unless he has an understanding of water quality in regional Australia! Why would he? Tanax has done some great work maintaining a comparison spreadsheet between these machines and others and seems like a very valid question without you requiring him to do a degree in water chemistry in regional Australia. How is anyone able to learn otherwise? Tanax -I think your quip was fine
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  16. #16
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    ECM
    Yes Joe that post had lots of info. But to be clear - the company "ECM" that made your machine is long gone. The company now known as ECM is a different company making different machines.

    Pump type
    As for pump type (rotary v vibration) my preference is for vibration unless it's to be plumbed. A vibe pump has a lower flow rate which, when combined with the pre-infusion of an E61 group head, leads to a relatively gentle ramp up in pressure on the coffee puck. And while it's true a rotary pump will generally last longer than a vibe pump, they also cost more so there's no saving over the life of the machine. A rotary pump will make less noise, but a well mounted vibe pump won't make much more.

    Copper v SS boiler
    As you state, the thermal conductivity of copper is much higher than SS. This can make a pretty big difference in a HX machine due to its temperature stability. And if you live in a hard water area (areas of SA and WA more than qualify!) then how you treat your water is critical, especially if you're dealing with SS boilers.

    FWIW, the ECM "T" (Technika in other countries) with the rotary pump has a stainless steel boiler.

    charlie
    Last edited by JetBlack_Espresso; 1 Week Ago at 08:28 PM.

  17. #17
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    I would put the counter case in favour of the ECM.

    First of all, it matters not who makes ECM, it is spare parts support and local warranty and service that counts.

    A copper versus SS is a complex and in the end, pointless argument, either will do and leading manufacturers often either make both or one or the other. While copper and brass are much more conductive than SS it makes no difference to temperature stability for the coffee, that job is done by the honking 9 pounds of chrome plated brass called an E61 group. If you want to get into a huge argument about SS versus copper I hope it doesn't happen here. If you are over 50 and look after your machine, you likely will die first before either boiler fails. The biggest cause of issues is scale build up.

    A $50 vibe pump. Call me prejudiced but a powerful rotary pump able to maintain a steady pressure and that will last for decades will get my vote every time. Yes, plumbed in machines are too for too many people but is an upfront investment that pays itself back over the years by much less trouble and work on a daily basis. Of course, many people can't do that but I gather even if you are not plumbed in you can still use a rotary pump.

    My two cents. Both machines are great. Another furphy are insulated boilers. All E61 machines have a full time radiator in terms of a group head so insulating a boiler is like putting a Band-Aid on an amputated leg.

    IMHO, all Italian made E61 machines will give similar performance. I have a Wega Mini Nova Classic with rotary pump I bought for $2400 a year ago and it is great but I'd be just as happy with ECM or Profitec or Rocket (these are probably my favourite due to their attention to detail). I decided to save $1000 and buy the Wega which I thought was a great price.

    It is up to you but get a good deal and any E61 machine will delight you. If you want to pay more for bling or other features consider that all these machines are built like tanks and will do the job but the price and detail differences are yours to get lost in.
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    Quote Originally Posted by wattgn View Post
    A copper versus SS is a dumb argument, either will do and leading manufacturers often either make both or one or the other. While copper and brass are much more conductive than SS it makes no difference to temperature stability for the coffee, that job is done by the honking 9 pounds of chrome plated brass called an E61 group.
    This just isn't true. The E61 group head is just part of the system that delivers the brew water at a given temperature. The heat exchanger material and design matter.

    Quote Originally Posted by wattgn View Post

    If you want to get into a huge argument about SS versus copper I hope it doesn't happen here. If you are over 50 and look after your machine, you likely will die first before either boiler fails. The biggest cause of issues is scale build up.
    SS and copper are affected differently by water impurities and this matters.

    Quote Originally Posted by wattgn View Post

    A $50 vibe pump. Call me prejudiced but a powerful rotary pump able to maintain a steady pressure and that will last for decades will get my vote every time.
    The $50 is the point. Cheap to replace. And both pump types deliver more than enough pressure consistently.

    Quote Originally Posted by wattgn View Post

    IMHO, all Italian made E61 machines will give similar performance.
    No, they won't which is why the OP should make a reasoned decision based on their own circumstances and requirements.

    charlie.

  19. #19
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    It is "Pitting Corrosion" that is of most concern in S/S Boilers (Steam Boilers) where heat, chlorine compounds and pressure are present. There are reams of information, studies and laboratory derived data for anyone who wants to satisfy themselves on the risks involved. One of which, a brief summary, is linked here... https://www.nace.org/pitting-corrosion/

    In short, it is imperative that in this situation, that all chlorine compounds are removed prior to water entry into the boiler. It is a bit like managing fire risk, if you take away one of the contributing factors that enables fire to occur, the risk can be managed. In the case of Steam Boilers, it is the chlorine compounds that must be removed in order to prevent the formation of Pitting Corrosion and the ultimate destruction of the Boiler.

    Mal.
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  20. #20
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    Spot on Mal!

    Charlie
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dimal View Post
    It is "Pitting Corrosion" that is of most concern in S/S Boilers (Steam Boilers) where heat, chlorine compounds and pressure are present. There are reams of information, studies and laboratory derived data for anyone who wants to satisfy themselves on the risks involved. One of which, a brief summary, is linked here... https://www.nace.org/pitting-corrosion/

    In short, it is imperative that in this situation, that all chlorine compounds are removed prior to water entry into the boiler. It is a bit like managing fire risk, if you take away one of the contributing factors that enables fire to occur, the risk can be managed. In the case of Steam Boilers, it is the chlorine compounds that must be removed in order to prevent the formation of Pitting Corrosion and the ultimate destruction of the Boiler.

    Mal.
    The risk is overstated.

    Another thing is if people pay $3000 for a coffee machine then don't put sediment filters, a carbon filter (removes chlorine) and maybe a softening cartridge it is asking for trouble even just from sediment from the water supply. Copper boilers can also over time require replacement as they thin. Nothing is forever except diamonds and herpes.

    I worked in the dairy industry for years and I can tell you SS is everywhere and the sort of pitting corrosion you speak about only happens under very specific conditions anyway.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JetBlack_Espresso View Post
    This just isn't true. The E61 group head is just part of the system that delivers the brew water at a given temperature. The heat exchanger material and design matter.



    SS and copper are affected differently by water impurities and this matters.



    The $50 is the point. Cheap to replace. And both pump types deliver more than enough pressure consistently.



    No, they won't which is why the OP should make a reasoned decision based on their own circumstances and requirements.

    charlie.
    Well, Charlie, if you were dealing with someone with your level of knowledge and you aren't, he would make a reasoned and calm judgement. What he will do is end up buying what is sold to him on the forum in the most persuasive manner.

    The nuances of boiler materials, are immaterial, they all make good coffee else SS would not be used as a boiler material by top companies in expensive machines. I'm not against copper but not against SS either. The effect on temperature in the extraction will be zero, that is the whole point of 9 pounds of E61 group head made of brass, the final flow rate is 50 mls per minute through this large assembly of group head so the boiler end is not nearly so important. In terms of heat exchange it depends on the design of the heat exchanger and the surface area. It is simple enough to make a heat exchanger out of either SS or copper, you will just need more surface area for the less conductive SS. All heat exchangers in food processing plants are SS.

    A $50 vibe pump and $150 for fitting probably and I've seen plenty of these little pumps go. They have their place though in simple and cheap machines but I would not pay for one in a top quality machine where you expect over-engineered perfection (well close to it).

    I like copper and brass and it is essential in some parts of the machine but the reason of moving to SS boilers is that the water sits there for long periods of time and I think some manufacturers are aware of consumer concerns over trace heavy metals in boiler materials. That is my take. SS can also last longer than copper but they both last a long time.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by wattgn View Post
    The risk is overstated.
    Most definitely is NOT...
    And I too have worked with various Steam Boiler systems over the years with all manner of process control and can guarantee you it is something that HAS to be considered...

    Mal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dimal View Post
    Most definitely is NOT...
    And I too have worked with various Steam Boiler systems over the years with all manner of process control and can guarantee you it is something that HAS to be considered...

    Mal.
    I would like to see evidence of current failures caused by properly treated SS boilers in coffee machines. Most manufacturers offer machines in SS boilers and are confident about it.

    Acidic water and high levels of chlorine would both be bad for any boiler. Boiler water for brass boilers used in industry is carefully treated to remove chlorine adjust pH, remove sediment and so on.

    I suppose if they feed their coffee machine untreated high chlorine water then they are wasting their money anyway, the coffee just won't taste right. It would probably take many years to damage their boiler too SS or copper. The pH of water in Perth for instance will thin copper pipes to the point where they get thin and can rupture over 20 - 30 years, for instance. That copper ends up in your water along with impurities in the metal.

    I wouldn't lose any sleep either way but I use sediment, carbon and water softening on my machine.

    I think you guys should be selling the guy on the importance of the water quality.

    You could also ask about the water in his area, the pH, chlorine levels and the amount of hardness in the water which if high, will kill his boiler copper or SS by scale formation quite quickly (unless he is meticulous about descaling and installs water softening units).

    I seriously wonder about how many people really consider water quality along with their expensive equipment. Being a chemist I do but...


    G

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    Yikes, what did I start...

    First off; The fact that SS has poor thermal conductivity should be good, yes? The heats stays INSIDE the boiler and the outside of the boiler stays cooler - meaning less electricity required?
    Second; I have no idea of how the water is in Australia. Granted, this is an Australian forum, but I'm sorry, I don't know that.

    What I do want to know though is for what reasons SS is bad and copper preferred, and vice versa. Because I've only heard that SS is the "new standard" and if it is, one would assume it should be better than what it's replacing...

    I understand that SS might be worse than copper in some cases and better in some other cases. That's what I'm trying to understand.
    In general, we have one of the best tap water in the world here in Sweden, especially in Stockholm where I live so I'm trying to figure out if SS is actually better for me or if it doesn't make a difference or even if copper is better for me.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by wattgn View Post

    Another thing is if people pay $3000 for a coffee machine then don't put sediment filters, a carbon filter (removes chlorine) and maybe a softening cartridge it is asking for trouble even just from sediment from the water supply. Copper boilers can also over time require replacement as they thin. Nothing is forever except diamonds and herpes.
    Thatís an important point though because people quite often fail to care for their machines in a way that will both get the best performance from them and the maximum life span. Iíve pulled apart a few machines now and am starting to realise that in probably 90% of cases the reason machines have problems is due to lack of care from their owners. I can just imagine the sort of things that places like Jetblack see when they service and repair machines and they must be pulling their hair out at times. Iím sure they talk to as many people as they can about water quality, but I know of many people that own $3000ish machines without owning water filtration. Sometimes it can come down to money too as there might not be any left for filtration after spending so much on a machine and grinder.

    So while I fully appreciate that both stainless and copper can perform well if cared for properly the reality is that in many cases they wonít be. Iíd imagine that retailers get a bit of a feel for a customer when talking to them about their purchase and Iím sure they steer them towards something that will work for them, but thereís probably also an element of risk reduction in their recommendations.

    I donít know too much about real world evidence, but I do know of at least one (commercial) machine manufacturer that went back to copper boilers after having too many problems with the stainless ones that theyíd tried a few years ago.

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    i was looking at the profitec pro 500 and compared just about most machines to that one. I thought it was best bang for the money with awesome quality and parts. Its also really compact and fits nicely in a small kitchen. I ended up going for the dual boiler as one thing after having a single boiler for 5yrs was to avoid any upgraditus. I ended up debating between the Pro 700 and ECM Synchronika. The decision was.....Syncronika. Why you might ask
    - no upgraditus
    - endless steam
    - love the push steam and water wands vs. handles you have to turn
    - you get a tamper with it
    - small little finishes around the machine like the drip tray, side panels, etc.

    At the end of the day, you should choose what other people say is best, you need to take the information around the machines out there and choose something that is right for you...is it the compactness, cost, upgraditus avoidance, dual boiler or not. I think once your looking at this level of the Pro 500 you wont be unhappy at all and you will really enjoy the purchase and coffee made. Get lots of help from site sponsors as they are really helpful with their knowledge but also look out for combo deals with a grinder. Best time to get the best discount.

    Good luck and enjoy those caffine shots.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tanax View Post
    Yikes, what did I start...

    First off; The fact that SS has poor thermal conductivity should be good, yes? The heats stays INSIDE the boiler and the outside of the boiler stays cooler - meaning less electricity required?
    Second; I have no idea of how the water is in Australia. Granted, this is an Australian forum, but I'm sorry, I don't know that.

    What I do want to know though is for what reasons SS is bad and copper preferred, and vice versa. Because I've only heard that SS is the "new standard" and if it is, one would assume it should be better than what it's replacing...

    I understand that SS might be worse than copper in some cases and better in some other cases. That's what I'm trying to understand.
    In general, we have one of the best tap water in the world here in Sweden, especially in Stockholm where I live so I'm trying to figure out if SS is actually better for me or if it doesn't make a difference or even if copper is better for me.
    Hi Tanax,

    You can find out from your local water authority about water quality. In some areas it is quite good and not so good in others. Have a look in your kettle also and see how much scale build up there is. Water hardness causes scale but can also be protective for a boiler. The ideal water has some tendency to scale but not too much.

    Your machine should be fed water that is sediment and carbon filtered at the least and possibly a water softening also.

    The conductivity of the boiler material isn't important as engineers can make good boilers out of SS or copper and design to suit the material so an HX for a SS machine will need more surface area and so on.

    SS is the 'new standard'? Maybe, especially in Europe where they are very fussy. I don't know but there have been health concerns over heavy metal contaminants in brass and copper but it really has nothing to do with the choice you will make. I would buy either. Copper and brass is softer and easier to work.

    Just be sensible, the reason for filters is to protect an expensive investment and to give better flavour. I mean you almost certainly have chlorine in your supply water. It can be low or high, depending on the quality of the source water. Carbon filters out a variety of contaminants that might effect flavour.

    Have a talk to a local cafe, they may be helpful.

    Edit: My investment in filters is for drinking water too. When I bought the dual cartridge sediment (micron filter) and carbon filters, they go to a drinking tap and we always have three bottles of clean filtered water in the fridge. The water softener cartridge is after the junction to the tap and so is only for the Wega Mini Nova Classic I have. Look upon the requirement for proper filtered and clean water as a bonus useful also for the machine. This will help sell the concept to the significant other. Of course mine is plumbed in which means a hole in the bench in the corner. If you don't plumb it you can still use the filtered tap (often a plug on sinks for this fitting) for water. The filter cartridges sit under the sink in the cupboard. This is all do-able but water treatment is often thought of last, not first and that is a mistake.
    Last edited by wattgn; 1 Week Ago at 04:45 PM.
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  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by wattgn View Post
    Well, Charlie, if you were dealing with someone with your level of knowledge and you aren't, he would make a reasoned and calm judgement. What he will do is end up buying what is sold to him on the forum in the most persuasive manner.
    You don't have to have a wealth of knowledge to make a reasoned decision. You just have to take into consideration the advice from people that know what they're talking about.

    Charlie
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  30. #30
    Rbn
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    Great read, makes an EM6910 user envious! We use tank/rainwater, however in another place we stay it is a town water supply and you can smell the chlorine!.,
    We have another 6910 there, so who knows what damage that water is doing inside it!

    I will have to consider some filter systems of some kind!
    Thanks for the debate.

    Robin

  31. #31
    Marcus
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    Anyone else excited about ECMs new HX machine they're releasing in end of Oct?
    Supposed to be their answer to Rocket Appartamento, meaning a smaller HX machine compared to their current rather huge HX machines!
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  32. #32
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    Another compact machine will be good to go into the mix - interesting to see how close it gets to the diminutive Lelit Mara! Also excited about the new Profitec that will be launched this week ...

    charlie

  33. #33
    Site Sponsor Casa Espresso's Avatar
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    Yes looks good from the secret squirrel images i have seen so far.

    Information and photos out of HOST in Italy next week

    Stay tuned!

    Antony
    www.casaespresso.com.au
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  34. #34
    Senior Member Magic_Matt's Avatar
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    What I'm really hanging out for is an ECM Leva... though I must admit that the Synchronika takes up most of the useful bench space in my new place.
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  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by JetBlack_Espresso View Post
    Another compact machine will be good to go into the mix - interesting to see how close it gets to the diminutive Lelit Mara! Also excited about the new Profitec that will be launched this week ...

    charlie
    I wonder what it will be. A compact lever maybe?

  36. #36
    Site Sponsor Casa Espresso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MediumRoastSteam View Post
    I wonder what it will be. A compact lever maybe?
    Nice thought, but no

    Antony
    www.casaespresso.com.au

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Casa Espresso View Post
    Nice thought, but no

    Antony
    www.casaespresso.com.au
    :-(


    Oh well , Londinium Compact next it is then :-)
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  38. #38
    Marcus
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    Exciting times!

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by MediumRoastSteam View Post
    I wonder what it will be. A compact lever maybe?
    The new Profitec is going to tick a lot of boxes for a lot of people rather than be a "niche" machine. Fast heat up, E61, medium sized ... OK that may be more than I'm allowed to say before Friday AM Milan time ...

    charlie
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  40. #40
    Marcus
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    Quote Originally Posted by JetBlack_Espresso View Post
    The new Profitec is going to tick a lot of boxes for a lot of people rather than be a "niche" machine. Fast heat up, E61, medium sized ... OK that may be more than I'm allowed to say before Friday AM Milan time ...

    charlie
    Sounds like a Pro 500
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  41. #41
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    Well, you got the "Pro _00" right! Want to buy a number?

  42. #42
    Senior Member LeroyC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JetBlack_Espresso View Post
    Well, you got the "Pro _00" right! Want to buy a number?
    Well 3, 5, 7 and 8 are taken soooooo...... 4

  43. #43
    Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by JetBlack_Espresso View Post
    Well, you got the "Pro _00" right! Want to buy a number?

    Im going to say (hope!) it a pro100 and the price follows suit

  44. #44
    Senior Member level3ninja's Avatar
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    I'm guessing 400

  45. #45
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    Im guessing both profitec and ecm will have a compact hx (from the same factory)like the appartamento

    - copper boiler no insulation
    - basic pressurestat
    - same dimensions as appartamento
    - ecm to be the same price as appartamento with black/white side panel options
    - profitec to not have any colour options but $200 cheaper

    Just a guess

  46. #46
    Marcus
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dazzy View Post
    Im guessing both profitec and ecm will have a compact hx (from the same factory)like the appartamento

    - copper boiler no insulation
    - basic pressurestat
    - same dimensions as appartamento
    - ecm to be the same price as appartamento with black/white side panel options
    - profitec to not have any colour options but $200 cheaper

    Just a guess
    I think you're correct on most points but don't think they'll go with copper boiler.
    I talked with Michael Hauck already back in March about this new machine and put forth my wishlist:

    Some suggestions for such a machine;


    1. Keeping width around 27~28 cm, 30 cm would be too wide
    2. Keeping depth around 42 cm, anything deeper would be too deep
    3. Keeping height less than 40 cm
    4. Make it with E61 brew group, with ECM details, like your bigger machines has
    5. Joystick levers for steam and hot water!
    6. To make it this small, you will probably have to place the gauges at bottom instead of at top, which is fine
    7. Brew pressure gauge would be so nice
    8. PID/shot timer!
    9. Stylish cup rails, preferably integrated into body like the Technika IV!
    His response was somewhat vague

    Hello Marcus,


    thank you for your e-mail and your thoughts are helping us. Like seeing it from the consumer point of view.


    This project is still take us a bit of time. Some of the product features product will have.


    If you want my college can put you on the list for our newsletter which we plan.


    And you will be up to date when the product will be ready.
    Looking forward to Friday to see what they got in store for us!

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