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Thread: Yemen Mocha Ismaili

  1. #1
    CoffeeSnobs Owner Andy's Avatar
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    Yemen Mocha Ismaili

    (moved here from email)

    Roasted one smallish batch of the current Yemen Mocha, using my standard method in the Gene, pulled just shy of 2nd crack. Stunning as an espresso, but also a great flat white. While the Bani Ismail from last year is great in an espresso, I've never fancied it in milk. Do you reckon there's any difference in the green beans that may explain this? Or do you reckon this is more likely to reflect variation in roasting technique (which I think I'm actually pretty consistent with).
    So many variables in all coffee and when you look at something like this Yemen there are many, many more.

    The Ismaili coffee is grown in some of the harshest, remote areas of Yemen. Hand picked, mostly dried on roof-tops and moved out of the mountains on donkey is not unusual. There are a thousand variables just there. Add to that freight, soil, climate variables and while you think your roasting has little variation I would expect that in the last 12 months you have also learnt more and tweaked your process and would have a different result even with the same bean.

    Pin pointing the single biggest difference is near impossible and mostly I expect it's a little of all the above.

    This current Yemen is a stunner, clean, well graded and possibly the best Yemen I've ever had if you were SCAA scoring it. Having said that it is an entirely different coffee to some previous Yemen's which carried a big red wine style ferment process which I also loved and would score poorly on SCAA sheets. I have a pile of "equal favourites" for different reasons... that's the real fun of playing with amazing coffee, roasting your own and enjoying the results.

    ...the journey continues.


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    Deliciously different and unique coffee that's for sure.

    Syrupy, big bold spicy fruit cake thing going on, with a delicious cocoa finish. Makes for a very interesting espresso but my first batch I mostly really enjoyed as piccolos, easily the best I have had / made.
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    Senior Member brettreaby's Avatar
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    A lot of variation just to look at these little beauties. They're small and uneven beans and quite a few fell through the Behmor mesh and landed up in the chaf tray.

    At CS9 there was quite a bit of variation in the final product.

    Couldnt wait and ran a few shots straight away.

    Sipped a bit of the expresso then added the milk.

    Wow this is an amazing coffee. rich, intense flavor with lingering cocoa.

    Is it worth 3 x regular beans?

    Probably!

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    I find it so hard to get the chaff off these ones. After roasting the batch looks really spotty. when you look closely you can see that about half of the beans still have a thin layer of chaff which makes them look light tan colour - hence the spotty looking batch.

    I try to get the chaff off by being rough with, shaking and throwing them around in front of a fan- it eventually sort of works but takes some time.

    I am still not happy with the roast profile i have used in the hottop on these. I seem to be loosing most the fruit / spice flavour even when pulled well before SC. I think I am applying too much heat leading into FC and somehow burning them.

    The best roast I had was 100gms in the popcorn maker (my HT was out of action). This was only a 5 minute blast of a roast but retained a lovely "old spice" and fermented fruit flavour both in the syphon and espresso.

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    Senior Groupie LindaD's Avatar
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    As with most Yemens, I find that a slow steady "ramp" with a 10-15* every 4-5 mins makes this bean better.

    Not that roasting it for nearly 6 years has taught me much

    Slow and steady with it. Slow and steady.

    -Linda

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    Hehe...
    im glad I'm not the only one having trouble with mottled roasts and chaff sticking to the beans. Still a hard flavour for me and my learners palate to describe, but I know it's fantastic and makes me want more. Still a long way off what I'd b happy to call a good roast though.
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    Member Magyar0300's Avatar
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    I also had trouble with chaffy beans I.e Yirg etc and found roughly stirring them in a metal colander with the 4-5 mm holes with my hand after they had cooled which removed 95% of the chaff left and just drops through the holes.

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    CoffeeSnobs Owner Andy's Avatar
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    What does chaff taste like?
    What percentage of a double espresso shot is chaff?

    My suggestion is to ignore it and grind it. It will make no difference to your shot, the grinder won't care and the taste will be the same.

    Relax, enjoy an amazing coffee!
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    Senior Member chokkidog's Avatar
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    Hmmmmm……………… a bucket of yummy Yemen, awesome! :-D
    Attached Images Attached Images

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    Quote Originally Posted by chokkidog View Post
    Hmmmmm……………… a bucket of yummy Yemen, awesome! :-D
    Ooh... nice looking roast, very even.

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    Senior Member summercrema's Avatar
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    can you upload this Yemen roasting datalog curve , Iam interested to see .

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    I'm wondering if there is any chance of some of this being available roasted? I'm having trouble achieving a roast that I'm happy with and would love to see how these beans turn out when properly roasted.

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    Senior Member chokkidog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by summercrema View Post
    can you upload this Yemen roasting datalog curve , Iam interested to see .
    You can see the curve in this pic, the computer isn't attached to the web, so this will have to do. :-)

    It's not a lot of use ….. there's no heat input or airflow settings logged and the charge weight is more than 2kg.

    Highest heat is after the 'turn', then decreased to maintain a steady ramp to end at 17 mins. Air is fully open
    from 120°, with some some variation when the roast is exothermic.
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    Just ordered this.

    Any tips on roasting this with Behmor - I have used P3 with D setting in the past with Yemen, opened door a fraction at rolling first crack and then hit cool at start of second. Should that be OK?


    Jim

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    Senior Member smokey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JavaJim View Post
    Just ordered this.

    Any tips on roasting this with Behmor - I have used P3 with D setting in the past with Yemen, opened door a fraction at rolling first crack and then hit cool at start of second. Should that be OK?


    Jim
    Bump, just ordered a bag of green Yemen and would like some advice on the best approach with the Bohmor, thanks.

  16. #16
    Senior Member smokey's Avatar
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    Found this little gem web site

    Yemen coffee is grown almost exactly as it was hundreds of years ago, without the use of synthetic fertilizers, pesticides or herbicides (organic). Yemen Mocha Coffees are dry- processed, husked by millstone and screened, Cleaned by hands.

    ISMAILI
    Is the prized Yemeni coffee by the Yemeni people and by the aficionados. From highest grown coffees in Yemen (about 6000-7000ft in Bani Ismail- Haraz region) more pungent, complex and deep, fruity and brighter, but these deep dark pungent notes are highly desirable: sage, tobacco, leather, dry fruit, cardamom, woody notes. Its intensity will reveal itself to you as the aromatics unfold after it has rested for 24 hours after the roast, and they really emerge when you grind the coffee: the aromatics themselves are intoxicating, and in fact there is a sort of "Yemen Syndrome" I think you can develop where the aromas are so intense that other coffees seem to pale in comparison ....And even the resulting cup of Yemeni coffee you drink cant compare to it's very own aroma when you grind it!!!. Nonetheless, this coffee is to be experienced, and not so much to gab about endlessly!

    Coffee Cuping Profile

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    Senior Member smokey's Avatar
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    Well I had my first cup last night, an incredibly gentle but rich in flavour SO, it has loads of body that I really love in a cup, so easy to drink, it cuts through milk nicely. A successful roast, I am about to make my second cup to brighten up this miserably overcast Sunday morning.

    Roast-wise, a very soft FC that I missed first roast and it went into a roaring rolling SC that burnt them black, went into the bin. Second roast I had to listen carefully for the FC, again it was so soft that I almost missed it again, but I caught it and took it into SC for about 5 seconds then hit the cool button. Tiny beans that have an abundance of flavour.

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    Hey Guys,

    Just wondering how those roasting using the Behmor are going with this bean? What settings seem to work best?

  19. #19
    Senior Member smokey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eaglemick View Post
    Hey Guys, Just wondering how those roasting using the Behmor are going with this bean? What settings seem to work best?
    200 grams I use = 1/2 lb + P2 + START and COOL after second crack

    350 Grams = 1 lb + P2 + START

    I suppose any variations will work as well, just don't go too far past SC or you will burn them. And be careful to listen for their soft FC you might miss it. Good luck and let is know what you come up with, its a truly great coffee.

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    Roz
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    I'm going to roast some of this in the Behmor tonight.

    I assume a few beans will get stuck in the basket due to being so damn small?

  21. #21
    PGH
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    I just got home from holiday yesterday . Only roasted coffee on hand was a 40 day old yemen : yirgacheffe :2 Brazil blend that was taken well into sc and looked mostly blac and oily. Off the grinder it was musty leather and dried fruit. It made the most delicious milk buckets ever.

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    Senior Member smokey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roz View Post
    I'm going to roast some of this in the Behmor tonight. I assume a few beans will get stuck in the basket due to being so damn small?
    Roz, in my last Behmor roast a few days ago I only had 6 small beans stuck in the basket, and none on the floor of the roaster, the new mesh seems to work just dandy for Yemen.

    Quote Originally Posted by PGH View Post
    I just got home from holiday yesterday . Only roasted coffee on hand was a 40 day old yemen : yirgacheffe :2 Brazil blend that was taken well into sc and looked mostly blac and oily. Off the grinder it was musty leather and dried fruit. It made the most delicious milk buckets ever.
    PGH, thats quite a decent aged coffee then I was worried that my 14 day old Yemen was aging too fast now I don't have to worry.

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    Quote Originally Posted by smokey View Post
    PGH, thats quite a decent aged coffee then I was worried that my 14 day old Yemen was aging too fast now I don't have to worry.
    I found my Bani Ismail roasts best after around 10 days or so.

  24. #24
    PGH
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    I thought I would have to throw it, but tried it anyway. None of my previous home roasts have aged that much, as i share it if i get too much on hand. The local commercial espresso blends never aged so well and tasted stale after 2 weeks. It was cs9-10 which may have an effect. Great espresso after 10days, but not so good through the Aeropress with ice.

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    Senior Member smokey's Avatar
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    Just had a 24 day old yemen latte and OMG, it is still wonderful and the old leather / cocoa flavour is still there half an hour later. I was wondering if its flavour would fade after around the 14 day mark but its still right up there. The vacuum bag has been sitting on my bench top all this time, Yemen, a great coffee.

    Just ordered some Maui Mokka so that I can compare the two, I can't wait to see what Yemen Mokka's 'little brother across the seas' has to offer.

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    Good Morning All,
    Just wanting some thoughts on this bean..Have had several roasts finished on this bean with all being a slowish ramp up to first crack but find that with milk it leaves lots of bubbles on top within minutes of pouring...Is this common?..reason being enjoying the taste but cant seem to nail it with milk..Is it the winey acidity perhaps of this bean?
    Have tried diff brew temps 92-95 but no diff..and yes the milk is silky mircofoam as I dont have a problem with any other SO or blends i roast..
    Any thoughts/comments greatly appreciated..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zappa_23 View Post
    Good Morning All,
    Just wanting some thoughts on this bean..Have had several roasts finished on this bean with all being a slowish ramp up to first crack but find that with milk it leaves lots of bubbles on top within minutes of pouring...Is this common?..reason being enjoying the taste but cant seem to nail it with milk..Is it the winey acidity perhaps of this bean?
    Have tried diff brew temps 92-95 but no diff..and yes the milk is silky mircofoam as I dont have a problem with any other SO or blends i roast..
    Any thoughts/comments greatly appreciated..
    How long post roast? I find that Yemen takes a little longer to settle down... perhaps there's still a lot of CO2 emerging.
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    Thanks for the reply..Most roasts I start from between 4-10 days..The current one is 4 days old...The roast times are normally between 11-13 mins FC and I pull around either start 2nd or just into it maybe 30 secs later...total time is around 15 mins..Using a hottop roaster..Its weird as have no probs as I stated with other So or blends just with any yemen I have had.
    This mocha ismaili is the 3rd different yemen I have had and all of them have been the same..Shame i dont drink as espresso only...but I use as milk based..Hmmmm.

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    I drink as espresso/ristretto only... find that I'm leaving my Mocca Matari at least a week before even first sip (I know that Andy pretty much drinks it straight from the roaster).

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    I'm keen to hear from others who have experienced the same as me with the yemen in milk based drinks..Just scratching my head as to why it is behaving like this..
    Thanks again for the reply.

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    Senior Member smokey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zappa_23 View Post
    I'm keen to hear from others who have experienced the same as me with the yemen in milk based drinks..Just scratching my head as to why it is behaving like this..
    Thanks again for the reply.
    zappa, I have mine in milk too but haven't noticed this problem you describe, 3 batches of yemen and the same problem is pretty weird. So its large bubbles or small microfoam-like bubbles? All I can think of is its still outgassing, but even then I would imagine the bubbles to be microfoam size too.

    Perhaps one of our more experienced members can comment and shed some light on this phenomenon.

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    Senior Member chokkidog's Avatar
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    I have never used a Yemeni coffee, in milk, which is less than 10 days old and wouldn't........ for the reasons you have described.

    The more developed a roast is the more aggressively it will degas in the first few days.

    Easy to find out; leave some aside and try it at day 10.

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    Thanks guys...I will shelve it now till after day 10 and try it then..Wiil give feedback then... thanks again.
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    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zappa_23 View Post
    The roast times are normally between 11-13 mins FC and I pull around either start 2nd or just into it maybe 30 secs later...total time is around 15 mins..
    That's not really a very 'slow' profile Zappa...

    I'm not at all familiar with what is possible in an HotTop Roaster but with my Corretto setup, I usually aim to hit Rolling 1st-Crack at between 14:30 -15:00 minutes and pull the batch at the first few lazy snaps of 2nd at around 19:30-20:00 minutes - Probably a gap of 3:30-4:00 minutes from the end of Rolling 1st-Crack to the start of 2nd...

    Seems to really bring out the huge fruity, winey, spicy dark chocolate goodness of this wonderful bean. I know you're supposed to let it develop over a 9-10 day period before cracking the bag open but usually it's very lucky if I can last as long as 4 days before the first bag is attacked. The aroma is just so inviting and impossible to resist...

    Mal.
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    Senior Member chokkidog's Avatar
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    Agreed Mal, a bit quick for me too.
    My Yemen roasts (commercial drum) : 60°C turn, 1st crack starts @ 13mins, pull the roast @ first snaps of 2nd crack: 17.5mins, sometimes @ 18 (or 1.5 or 2°C more).

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    Horses for courses! My Yemen roasts are done by the time Dimal and Chokkidog are hitting first crack! I usually hit first crack at around 9 minutes and drop around 12.

  37. #37
    Senior Member chokkidog's Avatar
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    But have you tried a longer roast? (what do you roast with?)

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    I'm one of the obsessives on this board and have tried everything from 11 minute to 19 minute roasts. My own preference is for shorter roasts as I find them to have clearer flavour profiles without giving up on any of the particular chocolate characteristics that Yemen has to offer. My taste may be far off the norm though! I use a Quest M3, 200g charge.

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    Looks like this bean can handle short to long roasts and still retain many or all of its wonderfull characteristics....Will do a batch tomorrow and stretch it out to 17-18 mins ,let it rest 10 days and see what that brings...Loving the taste of my current roast length though... just not happy with the mini bubbles popping up soon after pouring the milk..Maybe it does need longer to degas fully...as i said other SO beans have been no problem...Thanks again guys for all the feedback.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kwantfm View Post
    I'm one of the obsessives on this board and have tried everything from 11 minute to 19 minute roasts. My own preference is for shorter roasts as I find them to have clearer flavour profiles without giving up on any of the particular chocolate characteristics that Yemen has to offer. My taste may be far off the norm though! I use a Quest M3, 200g charge.
    I am pretty much the same boat, except 200g corretto roasts. Longer roasts over 15 mins just seem to flatten and dull aromatics and the the more delicate flavours for me. I have done 200g to 600g and everything in between 12 to 19min roasts.

    I have best results with this bean at around 14.5mins, just on SC. I start around 5 to 7 days post roast and get delicious double shots. Thick, rich spiced fruit, with plenty of chocolate in the finish.

  41. #41
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    Yep...

    I think everyone is probably right. It really comes down to what ever works best with your specific setup and so long as you are experimenting to discover where the 'sweet spot' is, then you're doing a good job in my opinion...

    Mal.
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    Senior Member chokkidog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dimal View Post
    Yep...

    I think everyone is probably right. It really comes down to what ever works best with your specific setup and so long as you are experimenting to discover where the 'sweet spot' is, then you're doing a good job in my opinion...

    Mal.
    Couldn't agree more! :-D

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    Life-long Learner DesigningByCoffee's Avatar
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    Too true - roast dynamics are just too complicated and diverse for one size fits all!

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    For you guys running Correttos with a sub 15 min roast to SC, what sort of ramp per minute are you running? I'm hitting 1st crack at 12-14mins and hitting SC@ 16-19 mins. Roasting 600gms. I've tried to keep my ramp to 1st crack under 10degree per min after the initial 3 minute ramp which runs higher, then slow to 1-3degree per minute after 1st crack. Btw, I love this bean!

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    Just had what could possibly be the best coffee I've had so far. 10 day old Yemen Mocha Ismaili, roasted in a Behmor (P2 1LB C - Total time on clock 21.30), pulled at about 4.30 left on the clock, just into 2nd crack.

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    First time posting here and i`ve always had a couple of questions around the Yemen Ismaili . I roast in Behmor , P4 1LD D for 300 gm and pull at start of 2nd C .
    Always needs a minimium of 2 weeks rest and i also get a lot less gass created during the degassing period .
    Is this common and is levels of degassing significant .

  47. #47
    Senior Member bennett's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nemey View Post
    First time posting here and i`ve always had a couple of questions around the Yemen Ismaili . I roast in Behmor , P4 1LD D for 300 gm and pull at start of 2nd C .
    Always needs a minimium of 2 weeks rest and i also get a lot less gass created during the degassing period .
    Is this common and is levels of degassing significant .
    I use a similar profile. I have had success with 300g 1lb P3 C in the past. But now I use 1lb P5 D for even better results. I assume P4 would be somewhere in between the two. I find P1 and P2 are too fast for such a dense bean.

    Yemen is amazing. I usually start drinking it at 2 weeks post roast. I have had it as old as 4 weeks and as young as straight out of the Behmor. IT ALWAYS TASTES AMAZING. I would love to experiment with some 6 weeks post roast-I bet it would still be fine.

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    These beans are driving me mental!

    Every roast no matter what setting on the Behmor seems to get away from me and jump into second crack immediately after first crack leaving me with cs11 beans at best!

    Never spending more than $12 on beans again! Happy to see the back of them and forget my lack of roasting skill....!

    Only one more batch of 100g left and then they're gone!

  49. #49
    Senior Member smokey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eaglemick View Post
    These beans are driving me mental!

    Every roast no matter what setting on the Behmor seems to get away from me and jump into second crack immediately after first crack leaving me with cs11 beans at best!

    Never spending more than $12 on beans again! Happy to see the back of them and forget my lack of roasting skill....!

    Only one more batch of 100g left and then they're gone!
    Welcome to the "Yemen what runs straight into SC" club

    I have to listen with 3 ears for the end of FC and the start of SC with the yemen, it appears to be just one of those beans that are not so easy to roast. I wouldn't be without it even though its hard to roast, thats just life I think.

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by eaglemick View Post
    These beans are driving me mental!

    Every roast no matter what setting on the Behmor seems to get away from me and jump into second crack immediately after first crack leaving me with cs11 beans at best!

    Never spending more than $12 on beans again! Happy to see the back of them and forget my lack of roasting skill....!

    Only one more batch of 100g left and then they're gone!
    I'm happy to take them off your hands if you don't want them

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