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    DECAF - Wow

    A few days after roasting DECAF - Wow it is tasting quite nice. Im looking forward to testing it out as it ages a bit more.

    The roasting of DECAF - Wow differs a lot from other beans. I thought my thermometer was playing up because of how the roast went in relation to the temperature. The beans were very dark and there was quite a lot of smoke even before first crack.

    My plan for the next batch is to get to first crack a little sooner so the water content will be higher and more suitable for a dark roast. Has anyone else come up with a good roast time/temp curve? Any thoughts on how we should roast it?

    Chris.


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    Re: DECAF - Wow

    I dont vary my profile for decaf from my normal general profile, i dont go via colour very much at all but rather stop my roast right at the start of SC.

    It is a little disconcerting to roast the first time because the colour and sound volume of FC is just so different to normal beans during the roast process.

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    Re: DECAF - Wow

    Bolb is spot-on.

    IGNORE colour, use the probe to get a similar curve to your own average roast and pull and cool at the very first pops of 2nd crack.

    (I dont think I would want a fast ramp to 1st crack but give it a try, you might like it better that on that profile)

    Remember, the beauty of home roasting is the chance to pave your own way!


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    Re: DECAF - Wow

    Ive done four experimental roasts, and hit one that works for me.

    Andy, what a beautiful aroma, and I love the flavour - an espresso I can drink straight and truly enjoy. Even better, its a decaf. The best decaf I have ever tasted, hands down.

    Decaf Wow had to be roasted with way more heat to get to FC in a normal time than any of my other roasts in the Coretto. My heatgun nozzle had to be 2cm lower than usual, with the nozzle in the top of the breadpan. This would normally burn any other roast pretty rapidly.

    I hit first isolated snaps of FC at 16:46 and RSC at 19:50 at which time I cut the heat and coasted for 20 secs (very smokey), pulled and cooled at 20:10. CS12, no oil. 400g greens = 340g roasted.

    The final roast I did, I tried to extend the time between FC and SC by reducing the heat after FC at 16:40 by bringing the HG up 2cm to a normal level, and what I thought was the beginning of SC must have actually just been RFC - pulled too early, CS11, on the sour side. Oh well, I only learn by trying.

    Im going to enjoy every pour of the roast that hit SC. Yum.

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    Re: DECAF - Wow

    Thanks Bolb, Andy and Inellidepth. I think I let the smoke get the better of me and I reduced the heat too much.
    Now Im really inspired. Ill try my best to have nerves of steel and follow my planned curve to second crack. I think some Rocky theme music will help me.

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    Re: DECAF - Wow

    I just did another roast stopping a little short of second crack. We had a coffee as soon as it cooled down and it is already tasting delicious.
    Thanks Andy! We havent had too many coffees that taste so good so soon. It seemed to have plenty of body and nice chocolate notes. We will enjoy tasting the changes as it ages a little.

    The roast wasnt as scary as I thought it would be. It was still smokey but it didnt get overly smokey as the temp went up and up. My roast time was shorter than Intellidepths. Rolling first crack was at 7 minutes and I stopped at 12 minutes. I think I will stretch out the roast next time, what do you guys think?

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    Re: DECAF - Wow

    Yep, stretch the roast out, try for FC around the 10min mark if you can do it and then a gentle ramp to SC say 4 mins later.

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    Re: DECAF - Wow

    Thanks bolb, Ill do a roast just like that and see how it goes. Im sure this coffee is going to taste really nice with a range of roast profiles.
    Today I was tasting some lovely dark caramel / toasty notes. Yummy toasty. The toasty character seems to linger for ages.
    I blended some (maybe 20%) with a supremo and it lifted the flavour of the coffee nicely.
    I wonder if Andy would consider doing a non-decaf Espresso Wow as a green bean for us??? ;)

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    Re: DECAF - Wow

    Im loving this decaf wow! Stopped just on the first snaps of 2nd crack (using temperature). I was surprised by the complexity of flavour, and can tell theres a blend, by the variation in first crack sound, temp and time.

    Must add, that the crema on this decaf is incredible. I didnt know it was possible to get such a viscous pour from a decaf. Amazing, and congrats to Andy. Ive never tasted a decaf so good.

    Al.

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    CoffeeSnobs Owner Andy's Avatar
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    Re: DECAF - Wow


    tis great to see that everyone is enjoying it.

    Im really proud of how it turned-out and we were stunned just how good a decaf can be if you start with excellent coffee beans. I have to thank the guys at Swiss Water for producing a process that is chemical free but still allows the quality of the coffee to shine though.

    Enjoy!


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    Re: DECAF - Wow

    Is the decaf-wow a single origin or a blend?
    What kind of beans?
    Thanks.
    Spressoman

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    Re: DECAF - Wow

    Quote Originally Posted by 676E6164606C75660F0 link=1243147592/10#10 date=1243516389
    Is the decaf-wow a single origin or a blend?
    What kind of beans?
    Thanks.
    Spressoman
    I am pretty sure it is a blend but here are Andys notes for WOW decaf green beans

    Working closely with the Swiss Water team we have developed a custom Swiss Water Process Decaf that is as close to Espresso Wow as we can get. You will stun your friends and family when you tell them this good bodied, whole palate balanced coffee is a decaf.

    Roast by temperature, not colour to just before second crack for best results.
    KK

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    Re: DECAF - Wow

    Quote Originally Posted by 2B0C16070E0E0B060712160A620 link=1243147592/3#3 date=1243212667
    hit one that works for me
    ...well nearly! After a week it seems to taste darker than Id quite prefer. Lots of oil showed up after a few days. Next roast Ill pull it earlier.

    I had six decaf WOWs back to back one afternoon... thats gotta mean its good. :D

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    Re: DECAF - Wow

    Bought a bag of this last beanbay for some friends. Kept 60 grams and ran it through the popper out of curiosity...

    Anyone who has caffeine issues would be well happy with this. Quite a nice coffee indeed and nothing really decaf about it.

    Well done Mr Freeman. [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

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    Re: DECAF - Wow

    Quote Originally Posted by 505D5E50320 link=1243147592/6#6 date=1243293773
    try for FC around the 10min mark if you can do it and then a gentle ramp to SC say 4 mins later. *
    Thanks bolb, I did a roast just like that and we all enjoyed that one too *:)
    The decaf is the most enjoyed coffee around these here parts at the moment.

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    Re: DECAF - Wow

    Thanks for the Decaf Wow, Andy.

    Ive gotta admit, Ive never been into decaf and was a bit reticent about trying this. But, Ive gotta say this is a very nice coffee. If I didnt know it was decaf, would I be able to pick it was by taste? No, Im sure I couldnt. (And I can probably do with less caffeine too, I suppose.)

    Greg

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    Re: DECAF - Wow

    Hey Greg - I use this at the shop, and at home, you really should try it in a plunger....fantastic!

    :)


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    Re: DECAF - Wow

    WOW ::)

    I am an ANTI decaf drinker, so a really nice drop.

    Had and espresso yesterday and a double shot Latte today (trying not to get to jumpy behind the machine) Great flavour, body and aroma. Did a few freebie espressos for some other non believers who were really surprised by it too.

    To the lady customer who ordered the double decaf Soy Latte that about 6 of us had a laugh with when she ordered (we did all apologise ::) ), said really nice things about it too.

    I would happily roast up a batch if I was having a few around for dinner for night time coffees and will put it back on the cart for commercial use.

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    Re: DECAF - Wow

    This is a great drop! i followed the recommendation of roasting to just before second crack, tried it only 2 days post roast, what a wow! took it over to a friends house this morning (day 3), they were also amazed.

    as an aside, we all became extremely tired! weird mental effect of no caffeine perhaps?!

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    Re: DECAF - Wow

    If Im wanting a bit less caffeine, I have been blending 2/3 Decaf Wow with 1/3 Harrar Longberry. Its actually fantastic. Does anyone else do this?

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    Re: DECAF - Wow

    Quote Originally Posted by 22333A2F2E2225282B383E4A0 link=1243147592/19#19 date=1286782278
    If Im wanting a bit less caffeine, I have been blending 2/3 Decaf Wow with 1/3 Harrar Longberry. Its actually fantastic. Does anyone else do this?
    I just bought some with this very idea in mind!

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    Re: DECAF - Wow

    Quote Originally Posted by 163F3A0C1E36362120530 link=1243147592/18#18 date=1286671413
    as an aside, we all became extremely tired! weird mental effect of no caffeine perhaps?!
    I snuck our decaf into a grinder at work a couple of years ago. One coworker was yawning like crazy by lunchtime and wasnt happy when I told him why. Lack of caffeine might have been the reason but I guess that its also the "warm drink" scenario that makes you tired (or relaxed).

    Quote Originally Posted by 3B2A2336373B3C31322127530 link=1243147592/19#19 date=1286782278
    have been blending 2/3 Decaf Wow with 1/3 Harrar Longberry
    There have been a few "half caff" blends on CS over the years, it seems a logical thing to do but not many people are talking about it.

    Might suit those that want a coffee in the evenings but avoid it.

    After Supper Coffee?
    :)

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    Re: DECAF - Wow

    how can you tell the temperature in a behmor? anyone else wondering? :-?

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    Re: DECAF - Wow

    Quote Originally Posted by 5A535B5A5E51503F0 link=1243147592/22#22 date=1293928714
    how can you tell the temperature in a behmor? anyone else wondering? :-?
    See http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1288707025 and then you will need to wait until Andy has somehting ready ;)

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    Re: DECAF - Wow

    Hi all,

    Jave done around 25 roasts of various beans, and about to do my first decaf. Im using a coretto but dont have a probe; would I be right in guessing that it wont need as much heat as some other hard beans? I was thinking of using a similar heat profile to Monsoon malabar...

    Any help greatly appreciated.

    Cheers,
    Steve :)

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    Re: DECAF - Wow

    good call it is like india mmg. I get a quite dark roast which iz
    s ok because I found you can drink decaf after 2 days and its good. I watch it carefully and stop at the hint of c2. because I normally roast 450g but only 300g for decaf I use different settings.

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    Re: DECAF - Wow

    Thank you Andy for these roasted WOW decaf beans.

    These were our first ever beanbay order and we had the most wonderful decaf coffees last night from the Aeropress and had a wonderful sleep too! Dont know why it took us so long to discover these.

    One question, sorry if not the right thread to ask, do we grind finer for the aeropress too as compared to normal beans for aero press? How fine should we be looking out for? Weve been doing coarse sand consistency for the normal beans for AP.

    Thank you Andy again! Now we can enjoy yummy coffee anytime of the day. ;D

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    Re: DECAF - Wow

    We get so many compliments on the Decaf Wow, most people argue that if it tastes that good I cant be decaf!

    The best way to make any Aeropress coffee is to experiment, if you go too fine its too hard to press the coffee through and you might also find some bitterness in the result from the higher surface area of the coffee. In long brew times its mostly the caffeine that adds bitterness so Decaf is less prone to that.

    Best bet is to play and make one change each time until you find what suits your tastes the best.

    Enjoy!

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    Re: DECAF - Wow

    I am blown away by this blend, I have taken it to different depths and every time the result has been outstanding.

    I did a roast this past weekend and the night was uncharacteristically chilly. It was taking longer get to first crack so I incrementally increased the heat (Modified popper) but first crack was still elusive. About half a minute after I adjusted the heat for the 3rd time, while leaning in to adjust it again a large number of beans first cracked simultaneously. I had never experienced this before and almost jumped out of my skin. The rest of the roast was textbook. I guess the cold air was the culprit.

    I am currently enjoying this batch, it came out rather well.

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    Re: DECAF - Wow

    I was in Adelaide on business today, dropped by Fiefys (conveniently situated pretty much directly opposite where I was working :) ) for a coffee or three, one of which was a double shot piccolo latte made with this blend (sourced brown from Andy, I believe) and I gotta say "WOW" is right, this is an awesome blend, just as soon as I get a second grinder I think Ill definitely be stocking this one as my standard decaf, great work Andy.

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    Re: DECAF - Wow

    Hmm never noticed this before...sounds great.
    I am really enjoying good coffee but i can easily over do the caffeine, so this seems like a natural progression.
    Will be great to be able to make coffee in the evening, like right about now.
    Will have to put an order in soon.

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    Re: DECAF - Wow

    Roasted 300g this afternoon in coretto, pulled first snaps of second crack. I could not help myself just now and ran a scoop through the Aero press and its pretty dam good already. Obviously a bit bright but i can tell already its going to be really nice in a day or two.

    Quite interesting drinking real coffee and no caffiene effects.
    Id say this will be a regular for me.

    Thanks! ;D

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    Re: DECAF - Wow

    Quote Originally Posted by 2E2636213337302136440 link=1243147592/29#29 date=1338465259
    I was in Adelaide on business today, dropped by Fiefys (conveniently situated pretty much directly opposite where I was working :) ) for a coffee or three, one of which was a double shot piccolo latte made with this blend (sourced brown from Andy, I believe) and I gotta say "WOW" is right, this is an awesome blend, just as soon as I get a second grinder I think Ill definitely be stocking this one as my standard decaf, great work Andy.
    I often use my Hario hand grinder to grind the decaf wow (3 notches from closed), and it does a great job. Guess it depends how often you have a decaf (for me every couple of days).

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    Re: DECAF - Wow

    Ive got some Decaf Wow in the last beanbay too and really liked it. I just bought a second grinder to use just for decaf so when I get that in the next few days I will be drinking a lot more of it ;)

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    Re: DECAF - Wow

    Quote Originally Posted by 22243826233C20214F0 link=1243147592/32#32 date=1338948325
    I often use my Hario hand grinder to grind the decaf wow (3 notches from closed), and it does a great job. Guess it depends how often you have a decaf (for me every couple of days).
    Heh, thanks for the tip but Im sorted now, picked up a Mazzer SJ the other day, so my Rocky has become dedicated Decaf/travel grinder and I use the SJ for other beans/blends :)

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    Re: DECAF - Wow

    The doc tells me this morning that Im off caffeine!!! I was a stunned mullet at first, said to him thats some kind of cruel joke (no joke, hes not the joking type, but I trust his medical opinion). He says its ok, I can drink decaf. Before tasting Decaf Wow a few years back, that would have been a worse joke. If it wasnt for my knowledge that Andys Decaf Wow is amazing, I would have really been in despair.

    So, thanks Andy. I wouldnt have wanted to have to make a decision between my health and coffee, Im not sure which would have won.* ;D* And at least he didnt tell me to give up alcohol (and I wasnt going to ask) - phew!

    Ive been to the bottlo today plus ordered a couple of bags of Wow green beans (as well as a kilo of roasted wow to see me through, as well as to reaquaint myself with how it tastes when the expert does it!).

    Looks like Ill have 2 grinders on the kitchen bench now. (Maybe I could I get away with using the Kony for decaf and dusting the Fiorenzato off for regular.* ::)).
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    Re: DECAF - Wow

    Thats sad news Greg. Some questions for your doc:

    Ask if you can add 10% of something else now and then for the sake of variety.

    Ask if theres a pill you can take rather than give up caffeine.

    Ask if he/she knows about the benefits of caffeine, and might the not going without be more detrimental than abstinence.

    Ask if he/she can give you a referral for a 2nd or if necessary, 3rd and 4th opinion.

    Some of those are obviously tongue in cheek. Hope your health improves quickly!

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    Re: DECAF - Wow

    Yeah, thanks Den. Ive had all those questions and more going through my mind today. Ive gotta go on treatment (to do with oesophageal problems and lower oesophageal sphincter malfunction). Doc says well see how I am after that, so well keep fingers crossed. And Ive had my wife the nurse doing 2nd and 3rd opinions for me, checking it all out (but when she suggested maybe I should cut back on beer as well, well....).

    Thanks for the thoughts. Hope youre going well (your new career taken off?).

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    Re: DECAF - Wow

    Getting a bit O/T here, but the beans (well, one of the 2 parcels) I ordered from Andy yesterday arvo arrived this morning, including a kg of D-Wow roasted to order!* :o

    Thats unbelievable service! Emergency decaf delivery!

    And a big pat on the back to Aus Post as well - theyve always been excellent in my experience. From Geelong yesterday arvo to my Picton porch next morning - thats great service!

    Thanks Andy (and fam) - very much appreciated.

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    Have been roasting this in small batches on the FZ-RR700 Baby Roaster for the restaurant to ensure freshness.

    Prior to the WOW, we had been using decaf beans from a local roaster and no comments from customers.

    Now that we use Decaf WOW, customers have been asking me if we made a mistake by giving them normal coffee, or got comments like " it doesn't taste like decaf, tastes like proper coffee". "That was decaf right?"

    To get those sort of comments speak lots for the quality of this product.

    Nice pour from the handle, nice crema, full flavoured taste and aroma.

    Will be ordering some more.

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    Wow for decaf wow. Very good coffee.

    Last night I got the urge for a coffee but had already had my daily quota: time for a decaf. But none left: out to the shed and roasted 300g decaf in the behmor. ( 1 lb, p1, d, total time 16minutes to removing I to the fan cooler result cs10). 10 minutes later it's in the izzo and pulling a coffee.

    So what surprised me was the extraction was excellent and had a huge crema. Proves you CAN drink coffee straight after roasting.

    Made 2 latte's and the Taste was strong , some chocolate and a good- very good coffee. Sorry I can't be more descriptic but I do know a good coffee from a bad one. ( spent last week in Jakarata and the decaf beat all I had except a a lewak blend I found one one occassion).

    So in summary decaf taken to quite dark is immediately drinkable and not too far short of a really good full strength blend or SO arabica.

    A really great option in the evening or when you're buzzing from too much caffiene.

    Btw I use a separate grinder - old sunbeam 480 exclusively for the decaf.
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    I don't know why but I feel like sometimes after Decaf WoW I can't sleep.. Could just be the excitement of such tasty decaf

    I wonder how much caffeine is actually left after the decaffeination process..

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    It must be the excitement- or you're hyper sensitive to caffeine.

    SWISS WATER® Decaf claims 99.9% removal of caffeine
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    Wow for decaf wow. Very good coffee.

    Quote Originally Posted by Talk_Coffee View Post
    It must be the excitement- or you're hyper sensitive to caffeine.

    SWISS WATER® Decaf claims 99.9% removal of caffeine
    Yet I've had several baristas tell me that decaf has about 25%+ of the caffeine of regular.

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    I'm with Talk_Coffee on this... the Swiss Water process has been PROVEN to be 99.9% caffeine free. To quote directly from their website...

    "Decaffeination Standards
    In the US, decaffeinated coffee has a guideline that requires 97% of the caffeine to be removed from a green coffee bean. Being a guideline, as opposed to a standard, provides roasters more flexibility in terms of the percent of caffeine removed. However, in Canada and the international community, 99.9% caffeine-free is the recognized standard for decaffeinated coffee based on the maximum allowable caffeine level remaining in a decaffeinated green coffee bean.
    Coffee decaffeinated using the environment-friendly Swiss Water® Process undergoes regular caffeine level audits to ensure compliance to 99.9% caffeine-free. We take pride in setting high quality standards and have a Certificate of Analysis (COA) for every batch of beans we decaffeinate with our water decaffeination process."

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    Wow for decaf wow. Very good coffee.

    Yep sorry I should have said I wasn't disagreeing with the Swiss Water stats, just pointing out that many in the industry don't know the stats. Or they're possibly referring to other decaf methods.

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    Wow for decaf wow. Very good coffee.

    At work I don't use decaf wow but I use another mexican mountain water processed decaf. It is usually roasted to quite dark so much so that most of the beans are oily. Anyhow, one day there wasn't much left so the master roaster happened to be in so he roasted up some decaf and into the hopper it went and the results were the best decaf I have tasted.

    Maybe there is something in the process that allows it to be used fresh? But very interesting to see various experiences!

    Mike

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    Being an accountant I'm naturally suspicious whenever numbers or statistics are quoted, so I did a little digging on the caffeine removal.

    The EU standard is 99.9% caffeine free. This is absolutely not the same as 99.9% of caffeine removed. Conversely the US standard is 97% caffeine removed. (I can't find the definitive standard on the FDA website, it might be 97.5%)

    If we assume a double shot of 18g, that's 18,000 mg. The caffeine content of green beans varies enormously depending on the type of bean, but for a typical arabica bean it might be 1.5% caffeine, so that's 270mg of caffeine in the 18g of beans.

    Under the EU rules, they need to be reduced from 1.5% to 0.1% ("99.9% caffeine free"), so that means reducing the caffeine to 18mg, which means that 93.3% of the caffeine has been removed.

    Under the US rules, the same beans would need to have 97% of the caffeine removed, so they'd only have 8mg of caffeine, less than half the caffeine allowed under the EU rules.

    It gets more confusing if you start with a bean that has a high caffeine content, say a 2.5% robusta. (Are we allowed to use that word on CS?) Here the EU rules again permit 18mg but the US rules now allow 14g.

    However with a particularly low caffeine arabica, say 1.2%, the US rules only allow 6mg, just one third of the 18mg allowed under the EU rules.

    Interesting stuff, well at least to a numbers man like me!

    Cheers
    Jonathon
    Hildy, splashalot and smokey like this.

  49. #49
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    1
    I tried my first decaf wow roast yesterday and I failed! 1lb P2 D 22mins. I watched very closely and noticed it going dark quite quickly and stood by expecting to stop the roast and cool after about 15mins. I waited for the cracks - none. I watched for smoke - a bit but not much.

    I stopped roasting after about 18mins or so I guess and it was burnt and like chalk. Any ideas or help?

  50. #50
    Senior Member insomnispresso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    136
    I can't give you any Behmor specifics, I'm sure you'll find something if you search?

    Some points;
    - first crack may not really go into a normal roll, don't worry about it
    - don't go into second crack
    - it will be CS11-12 dark

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