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Thread: Panama Rati Hartmann Black Honey

  1. #1
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    Panama Rati Hartmann Black Honey

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Bought hours after the release, delivered a day later, roasted immediately to about 1 min post end of FC in the popper on an 18 degrees day, stored in plastic sandwich bag after 30 minutes of aeration, cupped as a filter. Tons of chaff during roasting.

    Day 1: quite a herbal nose, without the tobacco notes of the Turquino but same idea, perhaps more like the Costa Rica Geisha. Relatively little fruit. Dry mouthfeel with an average finish. Balanced mouthfeel similar to Colombian.

    Day 2: flash of honey on opening the bag. Could be auto-suggested since the thing called "black honey" has nothing to do with actual honey. I got it on day 1 as well to a lesser extent. More fruit this time around, still a very different fruit to the Sidamo.

    How has it been for you? What roast profiles have you tried?

  2. #2
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    Ordered yesterday too. Looking forward to trying out. Loads of chaff eh, and then Andy mentioned them being a competition bean. I hope I havenít just ordered another bag of the same as home coffee roasters competition..

  3. #3
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    Thanks Apicus, I also am keen to try this and appreciate your thoughts

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    Quote Originally Posted by Janus View Post
    Ordered yesterday too. Looking forward to trying out. Loads of chaff eh, and then Andy mentioned them being a competition bean. I hope I havenít just ordered another bag of the same as home coffee roasters competition..
    Hehe ah I reckon that wouldn't be such a bad thing Janus ;D.

    Sounds like an incredible coffee!

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    Day 3: the fruit is developing, more ripe pear than Sidamo's blueberries. The mouthfeel is now fully white wine, like a natural process coffee. Still feels dry somehow, despite the wine, maybe that now receding herbal side. Very balanced, great for breakfast. I'd say today is when I can first say I enjoy this. The grounds off the grinder smelt just like Colombia VG with no hints of the pear.

    I gave it another deep sniff whilst it was brewing and then it hit me: amaretti - the brown ones that are a bit caramelised.

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    Day 5, probably my last post for this batch as I'm running out.

    Added milk and sugar to this one so I could drink it faster as it was quite a rushed morning. Surprisingly, this turned it into a caramel bomb. Yes, the herbal side is still there if I smell for it but it is covered by caramel and vanilla notes; perhaps like vanilla rooibos. Very surprising to me as I was expecting something much more opposed to milk, much more acidity and some pungency, instead I got the perfect, smooth match, it is almost as if I picked up the wrong bag off the shelf. Double checked, no, it is the black honey. Will bear that in mind next time I want a "Starbucks" (drown the taste in fat and sugar) instead of the usual black filter.
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  7. #7
    Senior Member greenman's Avatar
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    Got some heading over the Nullarbor, can't wait to get them in the roaster!!!!
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    Panama Rati Hartmann Black Honey

    Mine arrived Friday, havenít roasted yet.

  9. #9
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    You roasted yet Greenman? I did a batch to 202c, they still need a couple of days before theyíll hit their stride.

  10. #10
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    I tried some of my light roasted Hartmann as a pour over today (7 days post roast). Nice, but not outstanding....but I think it needed a slightly finer grind so will try tomorrow. Am heading down the coast on a week's leave on Thursday, so will have plenty of time to experiment (I also have 200g roasted for espresso which I'll use in the Bacchi).
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  11. #11
    Senior Member greenman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Janus View Post
    You roasted yet Greenman? I did a batch to 202c, they still need a couple of days before theyíll hit their stride.
    Ha ha, I live in Perth, still on the truck!!!!!!

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    Second roast with this coffee. Decided to ramp down steeply, 20 seconds into first crack, then coasted to a finish, dropping it before reaching second crack with a fraction over 20% development time

    As a piccolo it's fantastic. Very clean, great juicy acidity for a natural processed coffee. Big hit of apricot and sweet lime, and with just enough cocoa and roast development to cut through in milk without losing any of the fruity notes

    I have some Sulawesi Blue waiting to put through the grinder too - Tempted to try a 40:60 blend with the Rati Hartmann BH as a latte blend, with the Indo giving it a bit more rumble to cut it in a full milk brew

    This coffee really shines as a single though! I think I like it even more than the BeanBay Sidamo Ardi and Kenya AAA, both of which are super nice coffees

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    Tried it as a single again in a strong latte. Wow what a lovely coffee! There's also a winey/blackberry note in there too. There's a lot happening with this bean

    With Christmas just round the corner it would be worth dropping some unsubtle hints to Santa about this coffee
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  14. #14
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    It's been 2 weeks and this has basically become my go to coffee in the morning, although I slightly prefer the greater fruit of the Sidamo (which I am unfortunately running out of, and therefore rationing myself, due to having something like 10kg of other beans from Andy in my cupboard).

    Yesterday, I cut a peach in half, and lo and behold the coffee took notes of peach. The power of suggestion!
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  15. #15
    Senior Member greenman's Avatar
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    My Rati finally arrived today after a 15 day journey across the continent, will finally be able to get them in the roaster!!!!
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    look forward to your thoughts. I've decided to focus on nailing the Yirgacheffe beans, i've been roasting a heap of different beans and not really feeling like i'm dialing anything in. Will move to the Rati after i've got the yirgacheffe sorted (or run out of them).
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  17. #17
    Senior Member greenman's Avatar
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    Roasted 300g for filter brewing, charge temp 180C with 2/3 heat setting reached first crack at nine minute mark, once the beans were into vigorous first crack I dumped them into the cooler.
    After resting for 2 days I did a V60 pourover -- it produced lovely clean, sweet, juicy stonefruit notes with a pleasant acidity. Will be interesting to see how it develops over the next few days!!
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  18. #18
    Life-long Learner DesigningByCoffee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Janus View Post
    look forward to your thoughts. I've decided to focus on nailing the Yirgacheffe beans, i've been roasting a heap of different beans and not really feeling like i'm dialing anything in. Will move to the Rati after i've got the yirgacheffe sorted (or run out of them).
    Thatís the way to do it - trying different profiles for one bean back to back is a good way of seeing what does what ...
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  19. #19
    Life-long Learner DesigningByCoffee's Avatar
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    Some of these have just arrived here, so looking forward to seeing what all the fuss is about might do one lot for espresso and take some away at Christmas for the aeropress...
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  21. #21
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    Almost delivered!! Can't wait. Should land this week.

    Cheers

  22. #22
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    For the first roast of an unknown bean the results were pretty good.
    Has that clean, sharp, fruity acidity of lots of centrals, but also a thicker, sweeter body on top – guess that's the honey processing? Straight out of the roaster I thought "Maybe a little faster and a little lighter next time" – perhaps more in line with an Ethiopian Harrar style profile. There was a hint of flatness that could be removed with a shorter profile overall, and even though I dropped 5į earlier (218į) than I would a standard bean, it was just starting second crack, and in the cup I thought there could have been a little more zing.
    But certainly not disappointed with what I've got so far…!

    Here's the profile for those interested…

    20171209-PananaBlackHoney25amb800g.jpg
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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by DesigningByCoffee View Post
    Nice even roast there, particularly for a natural processed. Well done.

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    I’m finding Panama disappointing so far. Pouring v quick and thin to taste.
    Using a Behmor P1 setting. P2/P3 at FC. Anyone having more success w other styles?
    How long are you waiting before trialling. So far at 5-7 days.

  25. #25
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    I have just recieved a bag of the BH and yet to taste test (only roasted saturday) but I have had success with the Nicaraguan honey. I found it needs a lot longer to develop a good flavour and avoid the wheaty tasate. I have had best results so far with a long build up to FC and then low heat until SC - then pull it out at the start of SC (or just before and getting one or two cracks in the first 30 secs of cooling).
    So normally p1 for 5 mins then down to p4 until FC then to p1 for a few mins then back up to p3 until just before second crack. Helps having a temp probe to stop the bean stalling.
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  26. #26
    Life-long Learner DesigningByCoffee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whykickamoocow View Post
    How long are you waiting before trialling. So far at 5-7 days.
    5 Minutes
    Lovely as espresso. Second the above – if it is missing body and sweetness slow the roast down a little…

  27. #27
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    Thanks really appreciate that

  28. #28
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    Drinking the Panama Rati BH now as we speak! First Pour this morning and it was a gusher so I had to fine the grind significantly and got much better results this time around.

    I went very long with the roast and still achieved only a mid range depth - not super dark considering how long it was in for. Next time I will probably go a little longer.

    The taste however is beautiful. It's subtle in flavor and I can taste the honey sweetness but at the same time the chocolatey body you expect from a central/south american bean. A winner for sure.
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  29. #29
    Life-long Learner DesigningByCoffee's Avatar
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    Second that. A week on I'm still getting some lovely thick, fruity, zingy espressos with a nice cocoa-like body… yummmm

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenman View Post
    Roasted 300g for filter brewing, charge temp 180C with 2/3 heat setting reached first crack at nine minute mark, once the beans were into vigorous first crack I dumped them into the cooler.
    After resting for 2 days I did a V60 pourover -- it produced lovely clean, sweet, juicy stonefruit notes with a pleasant acidity. Will be interesting to see how it develops over the next few days!!
    Finished the Rati filter roast today (day nine), still tastes great, pleasant acidity, clean and sweet, fruity notes with super juicy mouthfeel and lingering finish, will do an espresso roast next and see how it goes!!
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  31. #31
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    Finally did a batch for espresso--day 8 post roast I just enjoyed an espresso which had a lively fruity acidity, beautiful viscous mouthfeel and a lingering cocoa aftertaste, a most enjoyable experience!!!!

  32. #32
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    Roasted a batch Saturday of the Black Honey and it was by far the best tasting of the lot. Very fruity acidity and the trademark honey/sweet like flavours with some strong cocoa and caramel tones. Very enjoyable.

    I find the bean once roasted is very inconsistent (some very dark and others almost pale brown) and now thinking prior roasts haven't been nearly dark enough for espresso despite their colour.
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  33. #33
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    had some black honey, 5 days post roast, fruity and spicy and very yummy.

    Cheers
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  34. #34
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    The good news for those that missed-out on this one is that we bought their whole crop of black honey this season.

    Picking in Panama nearly done an it should arrive before Christmas.

  35. #35
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    Latest roast 15mins to just prior to beginning of second crack, great looking roast.
    Today's long black had a vibrant fruity acidity, very sweet and smooth with choc/cocoa notes and a lingering cocoa aftertaste.
    Only 1.8kg left now so I will have to cherish them until the new crop arrives!!!
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  36. #36
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    This is a fantastic coffee, easy to roast. Have found a sweet spot around 15c past FC, aroma amazing and flavour to match.
    Wish i'd bought 2 bags..

    Glad Andy's already secured this years crop! it will go fast.
    Last edited by Janus; 1st May 2018 at 09:26 AM.

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    Next crop is in people, get it before it's gone! (have just ordered 5kg for home).
    Great coffee, seems pretty easy to roast too if my results are anything to go by.
    Be interesting to see if much difference between this year's crop and last year.
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  38. #38
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    Just ordered 7.5kgs of this and with some yirgacheffe special prep (so far my favourite bean)

    Back up to plus 20kgs of green beens.

    Will get to this black honey over summer I would guess

  39. #39
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    Uuuggghh so very tempted to get some... have a fair bit of greens already, but it sounds soooooo nice haha..

    Have never roasted a Panama bean before..

  40. #40
    Life-long Learner DesigningByCoffee's Avatar
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    Just got some more myself too - very nice bean!

  41. #41
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    I’m interested in the Panama Rati Hartmann black honey but drink my coffee with milk (piccolo or latte) and wondering if this bean will be great in milk or a waste?

    also any worthwhile partners to blend it with to make something special?

  42. #42
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    anyone else find that the black honey comes out darker than other beans at the same roasting temp/time?
    great flavour from this coffee.. will be ordering some more!

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by justacuppa View Post
    anyone else find that the black honey comes out darker than other beans at the same roasting temp/time?
    great flavour from this coffee.. will be ordering some more!
    Yep, and it seemed to me first crack started a fraction early. Heaps of chaff, but Iím yet to taste.

  44. #44
    Life-long Learner DesigningByCoffee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mb21 View Post
    Iím interested in the Panama Rati Hartmann black honey but drink my coffee with milk (piccolo or latte) and wondering if this bean will be great in milk or a waste?

    also any worthwhile partners to blend it with to make something special?
    FWIW I've found this a nicer espresso type bean, zingy and fruity. Doesn't stand out quite as much in milk unless you take it into second crack Ė which then loses the fruit but still makes a nice, toffee like espresso.
    So roast to choice!

    As to blends - I had an amazing blend of this with Sidamo Guiji (or Harrar) for a real fruit bomb all my regulars loved
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  45. #45
    CoffeeSnobs Owner Andy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by justacuppa View Post
    anyone else find that the black honey comes out darker than other beans at the same roasting temp/time?
    great flavour from this coffee.. will be ordering some more!
    Very high in sugars so yeah, it gets darker earlier.

    'tis excellent coffee for sure.

  46. #46
    Senior Member greenman's Avatar
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    Roasted 300g Black Honey (filter roast just into vigorous first crack) last weekend. Brewed a V60 yesterday 23g to 300g H2o 84C 2min brew time. Looked amazing in the cup, mouthfeel was creamy, lovely subtle sweet ripe fruit flavours, nice and clean--a total joy!!!!
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  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenman View Post
    Roasted 300g Black Honey (filter roast just into vigorous first crack) last weekend. Brewed a V60 yesterday 23g to 300g H2o 84C 2min brew time. Looked amazing in the cup, mouthfeel was creamy, lovely subtle sweet ripe fruit flavours, nice and clean--a total joy!!!!
    Yep, that's almost exactly what I've got in at the office at the moment. The Black Honey is fantastic as a lighter roast. Glad I bought 2 bags of it.
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  48. #48
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    I finally roasted some last weekend to just before 2nd crack.
    Just had an espresso, this turned out to what I was expecting, syrupy mouthfeel, fruity, sweet with some chocolate.

    I'll try a V60 tomorrow morning, even though the roast is a little dark for a pour over.

    Great bean and easy to roast, I'm tempted to another bag or two!
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