Results 1 to 25 of 25
Like Tree28Likes
  • 1 Post By Magic_Matt
  • 1 Post By herzog
  • 1 Post By matth3wh
  • 1 Post By Melbroaster
  • 1 Post By Brevillista
  • 2 Post By LeroyC
  • 2 Post By magnafunk
  • 1 Post By flynnaus
  • 5 Post By Andy
  • 2 Post By Dimal
  • 1 Post By dlight
  • 2 Post By LeroyC
  • 1 Post By Melbroaster
  • 1 Post By Magic_Matt
  • 1 Post By herzog
  • 1 Post By matth3wh
  • 1 Post By Magic_Matt

Thread: Straw poll: is it ok that...

  1. #1
    Senior Member Magic_Matt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Northlandia
    Posts
    1,221

    Straw poll: is it ok that...

    So, I bought some beans in a 'clearance' sale from an online coffee subscription service - I won't name them, but prolly not hard to figure out who. Not TTT.

    I assumed that, since they position themselves as a specially coffee service, they wouldn't sell beans significantly past their best - maybe clearance stick is end of line, slightly past its best etc. But not stale.

    I think I was wrong.

    Of the two bags I purchased (last Thursday, delivered on Tuesday), one has a roast date of March 30, and the other March 6.

    To me, that's not acceptable - the beans shouldn't be sold except with a disclaimer that they're only good for seasoning burrs or practice shots. They're noticeably stale, as you'd expect - not degassing and very light (zero moisture content). I haven't run a shot, but they smell rancid to me (that supermarket bean stank).

    Thoughts? I'm hoping for some hive-mind advice before I get back to them.

    Cheers,
    Matt
    Last edited by Magic_Matt; 19th May 2017 at 02:54 PM.
    matth3wh likes this.

  2. #2
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    304

    Straw poll: is it ok that...

    Honestly, 8 weeks post roast sounds reasonable if it was sold as "clearance". Especially considering roasted coffee typically carries a use by date of around 12 months after the roast date. Yes I know that's not what an enthusiast wants, but that's what the market currently recognises as a standard.


    What was the discount as opposed to the full priced stock? Was it supplied in vacuum bags?

    Edit: are you certain its rancid? These are whole beans, not preground right? It's hard to imagine how whole beans can go rancid in 8 weeks unless they have been badly stored or mishandled. Imported brands like Illy are probably older than that before they even arrive in the country.
    Last edited by herzog; 19th May 2017 at 11:19 AM.
    matth3wh likes this.

  3. #3
    Senior Member matth3wh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Mid North Coast NSW
    Posts
    600

    Straw poll: is it ok that...

    If sold as clearance ideally they should give you an idea of roast date and how long ago that was.

    I experienced similar from thing from them on previous sale. Not rancid. Aged yes. Same surprise at roast date. Beans were still drinkable but some bags were better than others.

    They could do a better job of lowering expectations on their site before people ordering.

    Could just be bad roasts too.

    If memory serves, mine were all vac bags. Some roasters were definitely better than others.

    When they email out specials now I tend to look and see if I've seen that particular roast on special on previous mail out. Then I suspect it's still bags of the original mail out.
    (If that makes sense).

    My conclusion was that the sale price was not particularly special price enough. 🤣

    I'm lucky to be purchasing some beans for work consumption so helps in getting to try and turn over more and more roasters

    Heaps of roasters out there so I'm picking my way through Golden Bean winners and others I've been keen on trying in between getting many sacks of greens from here at CS.
    Magic_Matt likes this.

  4. #4
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    533
    I think it depends which expectation they have set in the past. My expectation if I ordered a bag of beans from an italian roaster (would be ideally leas than 6 months and certainly within 12 months of roast. If the bag arrived less than 12 months post roast I would look at that as consistent with expectation. If I was purchasing from a top level roaster in melbourne I would expect <= 1 week post roast and would probably start to get annoyed enough to complain if it was over 2 weeks out of roast. If this is a service that typically provides beans close to roast date and they fulfilled an order with 2 month old beans without warning of this and the beans taste crap I would be getting my money back pretty quick....
    Magic_Matt likes this.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Magic_Matt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Northlandia
    Posts
    1,221
    Quote Originally Posted by herzog View Post
    Honestly, 8 weeks post roast sounds reasonable if it was sold as "clearance". Especially considering roasted coffee typically carries a use by date of around 12 months after the roast date. Yes I know that's not what an enthusiast wants, but that's what the market currently recognises as a standard.


    What was the discount as opposed to the full priced stock? Was it supplied in vacuum bags?

    Edit: are you certain its rancid? These are whole beans, not preground right? It's hard to imagine how whole beans can go rancid in 8 weeks unless they have been badly stored or mishandled. Imported brands like Illy are probably older than that before they even arrive in the country.
    Well, yeah - but this isn't a supermarket, it's a company marketing itself directly at the enthusiast market. Either way, they're not doing themselves any favours - I was considering a subscription with them as they're a bit cheaper than TTT but they're out of the running now.

    The beans with a roast date 30 march were supplied in a standard 250g retail pack; the others were in a standard 1kg bag with a stapled on card - not sure whether they were packed that way by the roaster. Both had one-way valves. Can't remember the discount offhand but in the 25-50% range.
    Last edited by Magic_Matt; 19th May 2017 at 02:42 PM. Reason: Added quote

  6. #6
    Senior Member Brevillista's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Kippa-Ring Qld
    Posts
    114
    Quote Originally Posted by Magic_Matt View Post
    Well, yeah - but this isn't a supermarket, it's a company marketing itself directly at the enthusiast market. Either way, they're not doing themselves any favours - I was considering a subscription with them as they're a bit cheaper than TTT but they're out of the running now.

    The beans with a roast date 30 march were supplied in a standard 250g retail pack; the others were in a standard 1kg bag with a stapled on card - not sure whether they were packed that way by the roaster. Both had one-way valves. Can't remember the discount offhand but in the 25-50% range.

    Caveat emptor.

    Fancy being surprised at receiving stale beans from a clearance sale. I had a laugh
    trentski likes this.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Magic_Matt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Northlandia
    Posts
    1,221
    Quote Originally Posted by Brevillista View Post
    Caveat emptor.

    Fancy being surprised at receiving stale beans from a clearance sale. I had a laugh
    Should you expect a grocery store to sell off produce? Milk past its use by date? Do you expect on sale electronic items to be DOA? 🤔

    But yeah, caveat emptor will certainly apply to that company in future 🤷

  8. #8
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    304

    Straw poll: is it ok that...

    Quote Originally Posted by Brevillista View Post

    Fancy being surprised at receiving stale beans from a clearance sale. I had a laugh
    Yeah that's where I was going above.

    I would have thought that's the whole point of the clearance - older stock at a significant discount.

    Mind you 8 weeks post roast is still probably fresher than 90% of retail beans sold in this country!

    If the discount was deep, as per the 25-50% off suggestion, then I think it's reasonable.

  9. #9
    Senior Member LeroyC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Woodend, New Zealand
    Posts
    1,405
    I've had a similar experience here in NZ when I bought a deal for 2 x 500g bags for a special price on the GrabOne website from a local and fairly well regarded roaster in Christchurch that if been wanting to try. There was no mention in the ad that it was any sort of run out sale so I was expecting relatively fresh coffee. For some reason it took about 2 weeks for them to send me coffee that was already a month old when I 'bought' it. It was pretty disappointing. Luckily it was still quite nice, but it went off really quickly once I'd opened the bag and I probably only got through half of each bag before it was no good.
    In your case Matt my take on the situation is that what they've done would be totally fine if they'd been honest about it. I've had coffee that's been good as much as 8-10 weeks after the roast date, so 6 week old coffee has every chance of being ok if it's been stored carefully. So in my opinion it's not a problem to sell it, especially at a discounted rate, but the fact that it's a bit older should be clear before you make your payment. A clearance sale or discount could happen for any number of reasons, so they should be more explicit.
    Magic_Matt and magnafunk like this.

  10. #10
    Senior Member magnafunk's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    East Kimberley, WA
    Posts
    461
    I agree that if they claim to be specialty they should definitely warn you of the age when purchasing. Make it all into cold brew and get your corretto happening
    Magic_Matt and matth3wh like this.

  11. #11
    Senior Member Magic_Matt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Northlandia
    Posts
    1,221
    Quote Originally Posted by LeroyC View Post
    In your case Matt my take on the situation is that what they've done would be totally fine if they'd been honest about it. I've had coffee that's been good as much as 8-10 weeks after the roast date, so 6 week old coffee has every chance of being ok if it's been stored carefully. So in my opinion it's not a problem to sell it, especially at a discounted rate, but the fact that it's a bit older should be clear before you make your payment. A clearance sale or discount could happen for any number of reasons, so they should be more explicit.
    My thoughts exactly!

  12. #12
    Senior Member flynnaus's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    3,661
    Don't forget this is CoffeeSnobs . There are people out there who may have bought the same beans, enjoyed them (as being better than the crap beans they usually buy) and may be congratulating themselves on getting such a bargain
    Magic_Matt likes this.

  13. #13
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    304
    Quote Originally Posted by Magic_Matt View Post
    Should you expect a grocery store to sell off produce? Milk past its use by date?
    But they haven't done that. The generally accepted "use by" date of roasted whole beans is +12 months.

    No they aren't at their peak, which is normally considered to be between 1 and 3 weeks, but that's why there's a heavy discount.

    You can't pay Tiger Airlines prices and expect Qantas business class!

  14. #14
    Senior Member Magic_Matt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Northlandia
    Posts
    1,221
    Quote Originally Posted by herzog View Post
    But they haven't done that. The generally accepted "use by" date of roasted whole beans is +12 months.

    No they aren't at their peak, which is normally considered to be between 1 and 3 weeks, but that's why there's a heavy discount.

    You can't pay Tiger Airlines prices and expect Qantas business class!
    It's not, though, in speciality coffee circles! As an example, the owner at my local gave me some beans last weekend that he considered too old to sell - they were about four weeks post roast (and still very tasty).

    If these beans had been four, five or even six weeks post-roast I'd be quite happy. But ten weeks is taking the mickey, imo.

    I'd be pretty surprised to buy a Qantas ticket on sale and find myself on a Tiger aircraft... 🤔

  15. #15
    Senior Member Magic_Matt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Northlandia
    Posts
    1,221
    Quote Originally Posted by flynnaus View Post
    Don't forget this is CoffeeSnobs . There are people out there who may have bought the same beans, enjoyed them (as being better than the crap beans they usually buy) and may be congratulating themselves on getting such a bargain
    Absolutely! But this company positions themselves as a speciality coffee business, showcasing the best beans from around the world. I think it's a bit poor if they then present stale rubbish, particularly without being upfront. Not a great way to educate the masses, and not a good way to represent the roaster they retail!

  16. #16
    CoffeeSnobs Owner Andy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Internet
    Posts
    15,309
    Blog Entries
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by flynnaus View Post
    Don't forget this is CoffeeSnobs


    Of course, BeanBay sells fresh roasted coffee to order.

    Everything is truly roasted to order and nothing is ever sitting on the shelf in the hope someone orders it. The only exception, and it's stated as such in the description, is the "roasted sample packs" which are either roasted to order or from the previous roast day (never shipped out if a week old).

    You order and pay, the next scheduled roast day it's roasted and shipped. Depending on which shipping method you select it will be at your door within a day or so anywhere in Australia.

    The most common complaint we have is the coffee arrived too fresh (true!) and the consumer had to wait to use it.

    Fresh coffee roasted to order is possible but it can be a pain to manage and some people (not many thankfully) can get cranky at a few day wait for it to roast and freight.

    Not everyone in the industry cares enough to try and let the customer decide how "aged" they like their coffee to be.
    artman, Dimal, Javaphile and 2 others like this.

  17. #17
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Warwick, QLD
    Posts
    15,334
    Quote Originally Posted by Magic_Matt View Post
    I'd be pretty surprised to buy a Qantas ticket on sale and find myself on a Tiger aircraft... ��
    It would depend from whom you purchased the ticket...
    Just sayin'...

    Mal.
    flynnaus and Magic_Matt like this.

  18. #18
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    151
    A rather amusing thread. The funniest part is Coffee Snobs members being surprised that coffee bought on a clearance sale is well past its optimal use date. I mean, why else would they be on clearance?

    I'll stick with Andy. Great coffee. Always fresh, great price.
    trentski likes this.

  19. #19
    Senior Member LeroyC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Woodend, New Zealand
    Posts
    1,405
    Quote Originally Posted by dlight View Post
    A rather amusing thread. The funniest part is Coffee Snobs members being surprised that coffee bought on a clearance sale is well past its optimal use date. I mean, why else would they be on clearance?

    I'll stick with Andy. Great coffee. Always fresh, great price.
    Sure, it's the most likely reason, but not the only reason for a 'clearance sale'. Just a couple more words to the effect of 'old stock clearance' and there's a lot more clarity that could help avoid any confusion.
    Magic_Matt and magnafunk like this.

  20. #20
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    533

    Straw poll: is it ok that...

    To be honest the main concern is whether the product is fit for purpose. Have you tried it yet? If you try it and the product isn't fit for consumption then you can return it. My gut however tells me that you are simply dissapointed at the date written on the bag, and will continue to be regardless of what you taste in the cup.....
    Magic_Matt likes this.

  21. #21
    Senior Member Magic_Matt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Northlandia
    Posts
    1,221
    Quote Originally Posted by Melbroaster View Post
    To be honest the main concern is whether the product is fit for purpose. Have you tried it yet? If you try it and the product isn't fit for consumption then you can return it. My gut however tells me that you are simply dissapointed at the date written on the bag, and will continue to be regardless of what you taste in the cup.....
    Fair point. I've smelled and chewed a couple of beans, I guess I should really confirm by running some shots.

    I'm not really interested in returning the beans (return postage would mean I'd spent as much on shipping as the beans themselves...) - I'll give them to a mate who normally drinks preground illy.

    I find it pretty amusing that people still think that Coffeesobs is the only enclave of people who know or care about decent coffee. It's 2017, not 2007, people! 😉
    matth3wh likes this.

  22. #22
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    304
    A true coffeesnob wouldn't have gone for stuff marked 'clearance' in the first place.
    trentski likes this.

  23. #23
    Senior Member Magic_Matt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Northlandia
    Posts
    1,221
    Quote Originally Posted by herzog View Post
    A true coffeesnob wouldn't have gone for stuff marked 'clearance' in the first place.
    Meh.......

  24. #24
    Senior Member matth3wh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Mid North Coast NSW
    Posts
    600

    Straw poll: is it ok that...

    Clearance easily means different things to different standards and different sellers and buyers.

    Simple and helpful thing to their customers would be to state roast dates or estimated age and let people decide before purchasing
    Magic_Matt likes this.

  25. #25
    Senior Member Magic_Matt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Northlandia
    Posts
    1,221
    Behmor Brazen - $249 - Free Freight
    Quote Originally Posted by coffe4me2 View Post
    That's a good way to put it. Info and clarity upfront.
    Good lesson is to ask the right questions next time you see "clearance" beans .
    Yep, lesson learned for me 👍

    Thanks all for the input and discussion. Good spectrum of opinion, that's what it's all about ☺️
    Brewster likes this.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •