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Thread: Yirgicheffe! differences.

  1. #1
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Yirgicheffe! differences.

    Drinking home roasted Yirg in the US at the moment, different bean altogether than the Yirg we buy from Bean Bay, none of the rich chocolate flavours I prefer, almost a floral perfumed taste, this is the third batch, all the same.

    Very similar roast level to what I achieve back home, have to say a very poor substitute compared to what Andy offers, reckon we're spoiled for choice.
    Andy, coffeechris, Dimal and 1 others like this.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Barry O'Speedwagon's Avatar
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    Yeh, well the roasting drums spin in the opposite direction in the Northern hemisphere Yelta.

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    Interesting. The yirgicheffe that I have tasted here in nz is definitely more floral/perfumey than chocolate.
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  4. #4
    Senior Member Barry O'Speedwagon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duffybeers View Post
    Interesting. The yirgicheffe that I have tasted here in nz is definitely more floral/perfumey than chocolate.
    In my brief experience (3 months in Dunedin), they tended to roast the Yirg lighter than I would prefer for espresso. But was quick nice as a long black in the Aeropress.

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    All the Yirgs i have had have bought from local roasters have been stone fruit'y, floral aromatics also. However when i roast the bean bay Yirg, I tend to get a less aromatic, less acid driven product, not bad, just a different style. Mostly due to may skill level, or lack thereof. N8

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    Senior Member greenman's Avatar
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    Borrowed this off the web:--
    What to Look For in a High Quality Ethiopian Yirgacheffe
    It’s difficult to generalize the flavor of Ethiopian coffees. Each region has its own unique flavors, which can vary from farm to farm, season to season. Plus, the method of processing (wet vs. dry) and roast level can significantly alter certain highlights even from the same bean. But the high elevation of Ethiopia produces a hard bean, resulting in intense flavors and aromatics.

    Top grade Yirgacheffes have a very clean taste and exhibit bright acidity along with complex floral and citrusy notes (generally the washed or wet-processed beans). Dry-processed beans may exhibit slightly nutty or chocolaty qualities, but it tends to be overshadowed by the Yirgacheffe’s robust fruitiness depending on the roast level, and won’t taste as clean as the washed varietals.
    Why Wet-Processed Beans Matter

    Most people enjoy a quality Yirgacheffe for its floral, fruity, and tea-like finish. These qualities are attributable to wet-processing.

    So what is wet processing? As soon as the beans are harvested, and still moist, the coffee cherry is washed off to remove the skin and pulp of the fruit. Then, the beans are soaked in water fermentation tanks for 24-72 hours, then dried. Wet processing results in higher acidity than dry processed methods, which gives Yirgacheffe that “clean” taste.

    There’s nothing wrong with naturally (dry) processed Yirgacheffe. It’s a matter of taste. We prefer the washed Yirgacheffe because it has more clarity. Unwashed Yirgacheffe tends to have less acidity and a fuller body that doesn’t taste as “clean” as washed Yirgacheffe.

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    Senior Member simonsk8r's Avatar
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    Yeah i thought the Yirg is renowned for it's floral aromas and citrus/peachiness.. it may be due to different roast style or yeah differently processed Yelta, hope it's still enjoyable!

  8. #8
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Hmmm, perhaps what I'm drinking at the moment has been roasted a little lighter than I'm accustomed to, I do roast pretty dark, around CS9.

    This from Bean Bay may well explain the difference "We have just landed more of the special prep, double sort Yirgacheffe. Very well screened and hand graded (twice) it produces an amazing aroma off the grinder and is full of florals in the cup. Great at a CS8 light roast but still interesting at a CS9 where the body improves and you get more cocoa tones in the cup."
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    At MICE a couple of years ago, cupping Yirgacheffe at the Campo's stand, most of us agreed that the dominate flavour was that of earl grey tea.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry O'Speedwagon View Post
    In my brief experience (3 months in Dunedin), they tended to roast the Yirg lighter than I would prefer for espresso. But was quick nice as a long black in the Aeropress.
    For sure, my favourite way to enjoy it was syphon brewed at my local, with aeropress at home a close second.

  11. #11
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yelta View Post
    Hmmm, perhaps what I'm drinking at the moment has been roasted a little lighter than I'm accustomed to, I do roast pretty dark, around CS9.

    This from Bean Bay may well explain the difference "We have just landed more of the special prep, double sort Yirgacheffe. Very well screened and hand graded (twice) it produces an amazing aroma off the grinder and is full of florals in the cup. Great at a CS8 light roast but still interesting at a CS9 where the body improves and you get more cocoa tones in the cup."
    Roasted another batch a couple of days ago, took it almost to CS9, tried it this morning, after only a couple of days rest, biiiiiiiiig improvement, much more to my taste, chocolate/cocoa flavours showing, floral notes almost gone, much more to my taste.

    Never too old to learn.

  12. #12
    Senior Member greenman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yelta View Post
    Roasted another batch a couple of days ago, took it almost to CS9, tried it this morning, after only a couple of days rest, biiiiiiiiig improvement, much more to my taste, chocolate/cocoa flavours showing, floral notes almost gone, much more to my taste.

    Never too old to learn.
    The further you go into the roast the acidity and floral/fruity notes are reduced and caramelisation of the sugars produce the richer chocolate/cocoa notes.

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    What am i doing wrong?????

    Quote Originally Posted by greenman View Post
    The further you go into the roast the acidity and floral/fruity notes are reduced and caramelisation of the sugars produce the richer chocolate/cocoa notes.
    Hi greenman,

    Unlike Yelta, I have been aiming for the floral aromatic notes from my Yirgacheffe beans but I never seem to get them no matter how I do my roast. WHAT AM I DOING WRONG ???

    Before I started roasting, I used to buy Campos Selassi Coffee, made from Yirgacheffe beans, and enjoyed the aromatic florals I was getting from that which I am trying to recreate with my roasts.

    I am using Andy's Yirgacheffe beans and roasting on Hottop 2K. I am brewing on an ECM espresso machine and mainly drinking piccolos with little milk.

    I roast 200g at a time and have played with different charge temps from 160 degC to as high as 200degC.
    I have roasted batches in as little as 11 minutes and as long as 16 minutes but still no florals.
    I have played with DTRs of anywhere from 18% to 26% but still no florals.

    I am usually ending the roast a minute or a bit more after the end of FC. (Too long???)
    I always try to gradually slow the ROR from the middle of the roast to the end of the roast but still no florals.

    I am allowing the coffee to rest for anywhere from 2~3 days to 5~7 days before drinking.

    I am relatively new to roasting and can't figure out what I am doing wrong.

    Any hints or suggestions would be most welcome.

    Thanks in advance...

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    Senior Member greenman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabster View Post
    Hi greenman,

    Unlike Yelta, I have been aiming for the floral aromatic notes from my Yirgacheffe beans but I never seem to get them no matter how I do my roast. WHAT AM I DOING WRONG ???

    Before I started roasting, I used to buy Campos Selassi Coffee, made from Yirgacheffe beans, and enjoyed the aromatic florals I was getting from that which I am trying to recreate with my roasts.

    I am using Andy's Yirgacheffe beans and roasting on Hottop 2K. I am brewing on an ECM espresso machine and mainly drinking piccolos with little milk.

    I roast 200g at a time and have played with different charge temps from 160 degC to as high as 200degC.
    I have roasted batches in as little as 11 minutes and as long as 16 minutes but still no florals.
    I have played with DTRs of anywhere from 18% to 26% but still no florals.

    I am usually ending the roast a minute or a bit more after the end of FC. (Too long???)
    I always try to gradually slow the ROR from the middle of the roast to the end of the roast but still no florals.

    I am allowing the coffee to rest for anywhere from 2~3 days to 5~7 days before drinking.

    I am relatively new to roasting and can't figure out what I am doing wrong.

    Any hints or suggestions would be most welcome.

    Thanks in advance...
    Hi Gobster
    With the Yirg Special Prep I have only roasted it for filter brewing to take advantage of the floral attributes. To maintain the acidity I do a faster roast, generally 8-9 minutes, I take it into a vigorous first crack for about 45 seconds then rapidly cool.
    I use it for filter brewing but have been experimenting since I got my Profitec 700 with long blacks and lungos updosing and brew temp changes with some pleasing results.
    Happy roasting
    Trevor

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    Hi Gabster, my 2cents if i may (and i'm very new to this too). I've only done a couple of roasts of this bean, the first definitely had the floral/citrus notes (haven't tried the 2nd yet). Have attached the roast profile from the first one, not sure if it is any help.

    You might want to try keeping the heat on it and only slow the ROR immediately prior/at first crack instead of backing off half way through. I've been trying to understand how heat and time effect the flavour by doing some online research, what i understand is the faster you get to first crack, the more aroma you'll likely get (can be at the expense of body), which can be very bright/acidic in the cup in espresso if not balanced with some development time after first crack. If you then extend the time from first crack to when you dump the beans into the cooling tray you'll get more body/balance as those floral characters are muted by more an increase in the richer, chocolate/cocoa flavours Greenman mentions. I believe it's a balance of how long you develop and to what temperature, without losing all the floral notes while taking some of the brightness out to make it smoother in the cup, perceived sweetness is also meant to come after first crack with the development I think- unclear if this is due to lower acidity with time, or something with sugars.
    I'm also a novice, this is just what i've garnered from online research and i could easily be wrong! It's fun learning though, lots of experimentation
    Happy to be corrected here by any of the more experienced members.

    20170807-120gYirgSpecPrep.jpg

  16. #16
    Senior Member Barry O'Speedwagon's Avatar
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    In addition to the advice above, adding milk to the coffee is unlikely to enhance any floral notes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry O'Speedwagon View Post
    In addition to the advice above, adding milk to the coffee is unlikely to enhance any floral notes.
    Trevor and Janus, Thank you very much for your helpful and much appreciated feedback.
    I will modify my roasts and hopefully capture more of the floral taste in the cup.

    Barry, the small amount of milk I am adding is not a factor here. I brewed exactly the same way with the Campos Selassi and used to taste the aromatics in the cup easily. My roasting is the issue I feel.

    Thanks again to all

    Gaby

  18. #18
    Senior Member Barry O'Speedwagon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabster View Post
    Trevor and Janus, Thank you very much for your helpful and much appreciated feedback.
    I will modify my roasts and hopefully capture more of the floral taste in the cup.

    Barry, the small amount of milk I am adding is not a factor here. I brewed exactly the same way with the Campos Selassi and used to taste the aromatics in the cup easily. My roasting is the issue I feel.

    Thanks again to all

    Gaby

    Fair enough. Just try to change one thing at a time (despite the temptation to change 3 things at a time). And perhaps avoid the shouting in the OP.

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    Quote Originally Posted by greenman View Post
    Hi Gobster
    With the Yirg Special Prep I have only roasted it for filter brewing to take advantage of the floral attributes. To maintain the acidity I do a faster roast, generally 8-9 minutes, I take it into a vigorous first crack for about 45 seconds then rapidly cool.
    I use it for filter brewing but have been experimenting since I got my Profitec 700 with long blacks and lungos updosing and brew temp changes with some pleasing results.
    Happy roasting
    Trevor
    Trevor, a couple of questions please...

    What roaster are you using and what temperature do you charge at for these faster roasts?

    Thanks, Gaby

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    Hehe, after my above post, have tasted the 2nd batch of Yirg black as a pour over this morning, floral notes are all but gone, just a very light hint, only 2 days post roast though so will see how it goes over the next 3-4 days. Roast profile below, wondering if that last spike in temperature before cooling has taken out the citrus/florals, will try again in a few weeks and see with a more gradual rise into cooling:

    20170815-120gYirgSpecPrep.jpg

  21. #21
    Senior Member greenman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabster View Post
    Trevor, a couple of questions please...

    What roaster are you using and what temperature do you charge at for these faster roasts?

    Thanks, Gaby
    Hi Gaby
    I use a 2kg Torrefattore electric drum roaster, charge temp 180C, for filter with 300g batches I aim for around 8-9 minute mark into a lively rrolling first crack and then dump/cool these roasts retaining acidity and florals which I prefer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by greenman View Post
    Hi Gaby
    I use a 2kg Torrefattore electric drum roaster, charge temp 180C, for filter with 300g batches I aim for around 8-9 minute mark into a lively rrolling first crack and then dump/cool these roasts retaining acidity and florals which I prefer.
    WOW Trevor, I just had a look at your roaster online and it is some serious piece of kit.

    Based on your feedback I did a fast batch a couple of days ago and am now waiting to see how it will taste after a few days rest.

    I have another question if you don't mind. I initially got into roasting because I love the taste of Piccolos made with Geisha beans. I used t get these whenever Campos had them on offer but they seem to only roast for filter these days.

    So to my question, once I get the hang of properly roasting beans like the Ethiopian Yirgacheffe Special Prep for espresso use but while retaining their floral character, relative to that, how should I approach roasting Geisha beans? Go faster or slower, charge hotter or cooler, etc etc relative to Ethiopian Yirgacheffe??

    I bought one Kg of every washed Geisha beans currently on sale on CS and have been holding off roasting them until I get the hang of roasting by training on cheaper and familiar beans like the Yirgacheffe and get to a level where I can control the roast to the taste I am after.

    Anyhow, any feedback or words of wisdom would be much appreciated.

    kind regards

    Gaby

  23. #23
    Senior Member greenman's Avatar
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    Hi Gaby
    I haven't roasted Geisha for espresso yet, spending so much on these treasures I want to get all of the nuances via filter brews.
    I approach the washed geisha similar to a high grown central and with the naturals a gentler rampup to required roast level.
    No matter how these quality beans are roasted they still produce a great cup.
    For espresso I would probably take them midway between first and second crack for starters and see how they go as expresso.
    Looking forward to seeing how you go
    cheers Trevor

  24. #24
    Senior Member simonsk8r's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabster View Post
    WOW Trevor, I just had a look at your roaster online and it is some serious piece of kit.

    Based on your feedback I did a fast batch a couple of days ago and am now waiting to see how it will taste after a few days rest.

    I have another question if you don't mind. I initially got into roasting because I love the taste of Piccolos made with Geisha beans. I used t get these whenever Campos had them on offer but they seem to only roast for filter these days.

    So to my question, once I get the hang of properly roasting beans like the Ethiopian Yirgacheffe Special Prep for espresso use but while retaining their floral character, relative to that, how should I approach roasting Geisha beans? Go faster or slower, charge hotter or cooler, etc etc relative to Ethiopian Yirgacheffe??

    I bought one Kg of every washed Geisha beans currently on sale on CS and have been holding off roasting them until I get the hang of roasting by training on cheaper and familiar beans like the Yirgacheffe and get to a level where I can control the roast to the taste I am after.

    Anyhow, any feedback or words of wisdom would be much appreciated.

    kind regards

    Gaby
    I haven't roasted any Geishas but YES please let us know how they go! Really want to get into roasting these, feels like I'd be tiptoeing around them and super paranoid while roasting these incredible beans haha.

    Keen to see how you roast and find them

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    Quote Originally Posted by simonsk8r View Post
    I haven't roasted any Geishas but YES please let us know how they go! Really want to get into roasting these, feels like I'd be tiptoeing around them and super paranoid while roasting these incredible beans haha.

    Keen to see how you roast and find them
    Thank you very much Trevor and Simon for your feedback. I will surely share my findings once I start roasting the Geishas for espresso.

    I know it is possible because Campos used to sell Esmeralda Geisha roasted for espresso some years ago and that tasted AMAZING as a piccolo on my ECM.

    I am also encouraged by the fact that even my "bad" roasts with the Yirgacheffe Special Prep have so far tasted better to my taste buds than most roasted beans I have bought recently even from the likes of Campos.

    The only thing I haven't mastered yet is retaining the florals in the Yirgacheffe I have been roasting but I am hoping I will get there soon.

    Thanks again and best regards,

    Gaby

  26. #26
    Senior Member simonsk8r's Avatar
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    Yeah I used to work at a cafe that used Campos and we served the Esmeralda Geisha as espresso, was incredible... Expensive to buy, but yeah I cringed when someone ordered that in a large flat white haha, would be amazing in a piccolo though, just too much milk would mute it alot.

    Great stuff, it sounds like you're getting some beautiful roasts regardless, as long as you enjoy them

    Keep it up with the Yirg, trying different roast depths and how you got there and taking notes

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    Quote Originally Posted by simonsk8r View Post
    Yeah I used to work at a cafe that used Campos and we served the Esmeralda Geisha as espresso, was incredible... Expensive to buy, but yeah I cringed when someone ordered that in a large flat white haha, would be amazing in a piccolo though, just too much milk would mute it alot.

    Great stuff, it sounds like you're getting some beautiful roasts regardless, as long as you enjoy them

    Keep it up with the Yirg, trying different roast depths and how you got there and taking notes
    God bless you Simon...

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    SUCCESS AT LAST....

    Finally managed to get those florals in the cup from my Yirgacheffe beans after many many trial roast batches on my Hottop. I could even smell the florals in the extracted espresso cup and taste them in the final piccolo.

    I finally have a starting point to try and replicate and to try and improve further from.

    Interestingly, to achieve this I had to go for a longer roast time of 15 minutes for a 200g batch.

    I charged the beans at a hot 205 DegC, let them soak for 60 seconds under no heat and then turned the heat full on until about 3 1/2 minutes later and 148 DegC before gradually reducing heat and increasing fan speed throughout the roast.

    Towards the end, the BT flattened smoothly and levelled off at around 188 DegC for the last minute. I was worried I may have baked the batch but it tasted great in the end.

    Interestingly, FC was short lived and very weak (not vigorous) which I know is not the ideal and leaves me with something to aim to improve moving forward.

    Total Roast Time = 15 minutes
    Development Time = 3:22 minutes
    DTR = 22.4%
    Weight Loss = 12.54%

    Also, tried my first Costa Rica Geisha roast but this was badly underdeveloped and simply tasted very mild though acceptable and not offensive. Did another batch of that last night with a few modifications and will see how that turns out.

    over and out for now...

  29. #29
    Senior Member simonsk8r's Avatar
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    Ah that's awesome to hear Gaby, that's part of the fun huh, great stuff .

    Can I just ask, you've got listed development time 3:22 minutes, what's that exactly, time between the end of first crack and second crack/end of roast?

    Enjoy! I've got 3kg of a new Yirg natural I'm gonna roast within the next few weeks, has been so long since I've had that, can't wait!

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    Quote Originally Posted by simonsk8r View Post
    Ah that's awesome to hear Gaby, that's part of the fun huh, great stuff .

    Can I just ask, you've got listed development time 3:22 minutes, what's that exactly, time between the end of first crack and second crack/end of roast?

    Enjoy! I've got 3kg of a new Yirg natural I'm gonna roast within the next few weeks, has been so long since I've had that, can't wait!
    Hi Simon,

    I measure development time from the start of first crack to when the batch is dropped.

    where did you buy your Yirgi Natural from?
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  31. #31
    Senior Member simonsk8r's Avatar
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    Ah okay right cheers, haven't heard of that as a measurement as such but I might add it to my notes .

    I got it from a fellow from another forum, he started a Co-op with some friends as there were alot of beans he wanted to get in but just couldn't get them from anywhere local, so I think he sources them directly. Has some incredible beans on offer.. feel free to PM me if you want his email and he can email you the current bean listings he has for September.

    The Yirg I got is an Ethiopia Yirgacheffe Aricha Grade 3 Natural, was cupped by Q-graders and scored 89.5

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    Behmor Brazen - $249 - Free Freight
    Quote Originally Posted by simonsk8r View Post
    Ah okay right cheers, haven't heard of that as a measurement as such but I might add it to my notes .
    Hi Simon, I guess I took it for granted that this was a fairly common definition of Development Time. I am not aware there are others as I am new to all this. I come across it often in forums and I believe it is the one Scott Rao refers to in his book and blogs on the matter.

    Thanks for your PM by the way. Much appreciated..

    Kind Regards,

    Gaby
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