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Thread: Greenbean fumigation & bean age

  1. #1
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    Greenbean fumigation & bean age

    Cafelat Coffee Tamper and Accessories
    I spoke to coffee expert recently (at least, thats what it said on the side of the company van).

    The topic was the importation of coffee. to put you in the picture, His company sells a range of super auto coffee machines, and at the same time are an importer of roasted coffee, which comes pre-packed in 1kg foil bags with the little valve. They sell it by the bag and carton to customers of the machines, usually corporate.

    He claims that green coffee beans that come in sacks are subject to fumigation in the container before being allowed into the country. Given that the sacks are full of tiny holes, and the "coffee beans are like little sponges", he inferred without actually saying so that any coffee that is imported and roasted in Australia is contaminated with the fumigant gas, and in effect, we are all slowly poisoning ourselves. Naturally, his foil packed coffee is protected from the fumigant.

    This is no small statement, and sounds quite plausible to boot. Is anyone willing or able to put the other side of the story, if there is one? what are the facts about residual fumigant gas in green coffee beans?

    Another thing we talked about relates to how long coffee should be left before reaching its maximum potential flavours etc. He claims it takes at least 4 weeks to peak, and then tapers off gradually. They put a use-by (best before??) of about 16 months, but I can vouch for the fact that a 250g tin of coffee that was going out cheap because it was two months before expiry, was well and truly stale. It smelt stale, extracted stale, and tasted stale. No surprises, really.

    However, the beans in the kg bags have a longer use by, and have been in the bag 2 or 3 months, do give a creditable extraction and crema. I venture to say, better than some of the fresh roasted stuff I have been getting lately. I have also noticed that it is completely non-static during grinding, which is a plus. I picked up that this particular range was a blend of Robusta and Arabica. They also sell a range of 100% Arabica.

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    Re: Greenbean fumigation & bean age

    He can "Claim" all his likes... but the roasted stuff he is selling would have been through the same process of traveling greens as the Australian roasters... So in short... He is FULL OF IT !! >:( >:( ::)

    Its his so called marketing plan to sell his own product without actually doing the roasting... ::) ::)

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    Re: Greenbean fumigation & bean age

    My assumption is his pre roasted beans are roasted in Italy yeh? Well.. guess what, Italy doesnt grow coffee... so his "claim" has no basis whatsoever....

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    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    Re: Greenbean fumigation & bean age

    Quote Originally Posted by Meetim link=1188281209/0#0 date=1188281209
    I have also noticed that it is completely non-static during grinding, which is a plus. I picked up that this particular range was a blend of Robusta and Arabica. They also sell a range of 100% Arabica.
    Alas,

    This not a sign of good quality but a sign of either beans that are pretty old or that you live in an area of high humidity, or both...

    Mal.

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    Senior Member fatboy_1999's Avatar
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    Re: Greenbean fumigation & bean age

    He claims that green coffee beans that come in sacks are subject to fumigation in the container before being allowed into the country. *Given that the sacks are full of tiny holes, and the "coffee beans are like little sponges", he inferred without actually saying so that any coffee that is imported and roasted in Australia is contaminated with the fumigant gas, and in effect, we are all slowly poisoning ourselves. *Naturally, his foil packed coffee is protected from the fumigant.
    If he is implying the green beans have toxins, there should be plenty of evidence to back him up. Its not like this is a new process, and there would certianly be plenty of material to test.

    Unless a specific claim is made, with data to back it up, I dont lose any sleep over things like that.

    This is no small statement, and sounds quite plausible to boot. *Is anyone willing or able to put the other side of the story, if there is one? *what are the facts about residual fumigant gas in green coffee beans?
    Again, if it is his sales pitch, back it up with facts. Otherwise, it is just a sales pitch.
    Another thing we talked about relates to how long coffee should be left before reaching its maximum potential flavours etc. *He claims it takes at least 4 weeks to peak, and then tapers off gradually. * They put a use-by (best before??) of about 16 months, but I can vouch for the fact that a 250g tin of coffee that was going out cheap because it was two months before expiry, was well and truly stale. It smelt stale, extracted stale, and tasted stale. *No surprises, really.
    At least 4 weeks seems high, but it could be true for their particular blend. The tapering off is not too gradual. Certainly not over 16 months.
    However, the beans in the kg bags have a longer use by, and have been in the bag 2 or 3 months, do give a creditable extraction and crema. *I venture to say, better than some of the fresh roasted stuff I have been getting lately. *
    But how do they taste?
    Crema can still be present when the beans are past their best.

    He hasnt convinced me to stop roasting my own. ;)

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    Re: Greenbean fumigation & bean age

    Hi all

    Perhaps Andy would know if the green beans we get have been fumigated or not. Certainly the importer that Andy gets them from would know if they were fumigated and also the customs people that the beans have to go through. As end users we are in the dark a bit on many aspects.

    Mike

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    Site Sponsor Talk_Coffee's Avatar
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    Re: Greenbean fumigation & bean age

    Quote Originally Posted by speleomike link=1188281209/0#5 date=1188284151
    Hi all

    Perhaps Andy would know if the green beans we get have been fumigated or not. Certainly the importer that Andy gets them from would know if they were fumigated and also the customs people that the beans have to go through. As end users we are in the dark a bit on many aspects.

    Mike
    Hi Mike,

    As I understand it, ALL beans other than organic are fumigated on arrival into Australia.

    Organics are inspected and subject to none/not too many items of interest being identified they pass through. Should there be things which are not desired, organic gets fumigated as well...and is then no longer organic.

    2mcm

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    Re: Greenbean fumigation & bean age

    Quote Originally Posted by MarcS link=1188281209/0#2 date=1188283457
    My assumption is his pre roasted beans are roasted in Italy yeh? Well.. guess what, Italy doesnt grow coffee... so his "claim" has no basis whatsoever....
    Good assumption and good point. If the beans are imported into Italy, they are probably fumigated on arrival as well.

    However the original question about whether we are drinking the fumigant (and if it matters) remains unanswered, except for the observation by Fatboy that if it was really a problem maybe we would have heard about it before now. The probabilities would tend to support that, but its still an assumption.

    For example: there is plenty of pelletised dog food on the market, but the story goes that it contains barbiturates from all the euthanised pets that get turned into meat meal and used by pet food compaines. fact or fiction....? (rhetorical question)

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    Re: Greenbean fumigation & bean age

    Yes, but my point was his criticism towards locally imported "greens" when his roasted product has most likely gone through the same process... Personally, I think hes either honestly Got no clue, or an Idiot telling lies!! And we all know some" Salespeople dont know what telling the truth is - but thats another issue altogether.

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    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    Re: Greenbean fumigation & bean age

    Here is a copy of the AQIS regulation governing the importation of Green Coffee.... Fumigation is but one method required where live organisms may be suspect, the other is Freezing....

    Mal.

  11. #11
    Senior Member fatboy_1999's Avatar
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    Re: Greenbean fumigation & bean age

    Well, I have applied for my permit to bring in some green Kona when we return from Hawaii, so well see what they subject my poor beans to when we come back through customs.

    I sent a query to the AQIS a little while back after reading some stuff on their site regarding green coffee.

    The info I gleaned was that if it was under 5kg, and you had a permit, it would be deemed as non-commercial.

    The response I got said much the same. Although the wording of the response seemed to indicate there was a bit of leeway with the weight (as long as it is in your luggage and you dont go overboard I suppose).

    Im planning on bringing in around 5kg subject to costs and how much room we have in the case.

    When we return in October, Ill see how we go roasting it!

    Brett.

  12. #12
    Super Moderator Javaphile's Avatar
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    Re: Greenbean fumigation & bean age

    Remember that not all Konas are created equal! Do your research before you buy!! :)


    Java "Good research pays for itself!" phile

  13. #13
    Senior Member fatboy_1999's Avatar
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    Re: Greenbean fumigation & bean age

    Yep. Ive been researching quite a bit.
    Ill be buying from one of the plantations we visit.
    Ive got a few on the shortlist. Hopefully Ill be able to taste their offerings before buying the green.

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