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Thread: PayPal - weird messages 16th July 2016

  1. #1
    CoffeeSnobs Owner Andy's Avatar
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    PayPal - weird messages 16th July 2016

    Starting this morning PayPal is coming-up with some weird messages when CS'rs pay for their BeanBay orders:

    CS'rs are seeing:

    Your payment is pending while we review it.
    Regulations require us to take a closer look at some transactions.
    We'll contact you about this again in 24-72 hours.

    At our end we are seeing:

    We've put this payment on hold while we ensure it is not in breach of our policies. We'll contact you about this in 24-72 hours.
    To learn more, see PayPal's Acceptable Use Policy.

    I think something must have triggered "this looks suss" at PayPal even after 11 years and millions in transactions and they will probably fix it when a live human looks at it. I tried to trigger a human by calling the "Business Support Line" and they only work Monday-Friday 9:00am - 5:30pm

    Nice one PayPal, break something Saturday morning and then hide from the phone till Monday, (which is pretty slack for a multi billion dollar company with a world-wide footprint).

    Ahhh... PayPal. Awesome when it works, a headache and a big black hole when it doesn't.

    I'll post in here when it's fixed. Till then feel free to use BeanBay and PayPal as you would normally, I'm sure it will be sorted out on Monday.
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  2. #2
    Senior Member sprezzatura's Avatar
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    They're inventing new ways to charge the end user more over the weekend.

  3. #3
    CoffeeSnobs Owner Andy's Avatar
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    I was thinking more like someone said in a comment field

    "Hey dude, that Colombian was mind blowingly good"

    ...and it triggered the "suss transaction" shutdown.
    Dimal, chokkidog, Yelta and 2 others like this.

  4. #4
    Senior Member sprezzatura's Avatar
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    PayPal - weird messages 16th July 2016

    Ha! I didn't think of that. Now I'm wondering what the neighbourhood thinks when these odd people turn up at my front door and we shake hands and I give them a Ziplock baggie... ("O-ho! Beans, was it, Mr. Sprezzatura?").
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  5. #5
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy View Post
    I was thinking more like someone said in a comment field

    "Hey dude, that Colombian was mind blowingly good"

    ...and it triggered the "suss transaction" shutdown.
    Ha, Pablo would have loved it.
    sprezzatura likes this.

  6. #6
    CoffeeSnobs Owner Andy's Avatar
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    Well... this morning it was sorta fixed.
    Most of the previous days payments cleared but new ones placed today are showing as on hold again.

    Hopefully I can talk to a human tomorrow and get it fixed.

  7. #7
    CoffeeSnobs Owner Andy's Avatar
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    Update...
    Most of the original payments have "cleared" but new ones are still "going on hold".

    I called PayPal business support this morning and spoke with a human, Amber, who was polite, interested and helpful but didn't actually fix anything. She put me on hold (with the WORST ding-dong hold music that I can still hear in my head) while she spoke with the "review team" who have flagged it to try and find the root of the issue.

    Apparently the trigger really is something like my above example that sets-off alarms, her example was the word "Cuba" which PayPal won't transfer to (because PayPal is a USA company even though AU has no embargo with Cuba). Ahhh the complications of the global economy can cause grief even in our little corner of the Internet.

    Amber couldn't see anything on our account that would have triggered it though so the problem has been escalated and will be looked at sometime, don't know when and they might contact me, or might email me, or maybe they won't.

    Sigh. I'm optimistic that it will be sorted but really can't say when.
    We will continue to ship orders even though we don't have the payment and will follow-up with you if for some reason we don't get paid.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Morning Andy,

    Surely in this day and age a bank transfer is the way to go?

    It's the method of payment I use when buying from you, fast, simple and never a problem.

  9. #9
    TC
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    Cuba could do it....

    PayPal closed our account on that and sat on a substantial sum of cash for quite some time. They would not negotiate until we signed a restrictive legal document agreeing never to sell Cuban product whilst the US trade embargo was in place.

    The irony of all of that is that at the exact same time, I could purchase Cuban cigars on eBay US and pay via PayPal...
    Andy and chokkidog like this.

  10. #10
    CoffeeSnobs Owner Andy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yelta View Post
    Morning Andy,

    Surely in this day and age a bank transfer is the way to go?

    It's the method of payment I use when buying from you, fast, simple and never a problem.
    I agree but people like to use PayPal for whatever reason, maybe they do so to get reward points on their credit card? (which would be negated by the actual PayPal fees we add at the checkout)

    PayPal is convenient and fastest, banks are slow but cheap and we have no interest in trying to hold people's credit card information secure here (fraught with danger in the age of hackers) so it has to be one evil or the other.

    I did a quick calculation and PayPal made over $10k in fees from CS transactions the last financial year! Their turnover must be insane.

    Cuba could do it.
    PayPal closed our account...
    OUCH. It wasn't "Cuba" but something like it although I looked through the last few weeks of comment fields and there was nothing suss.

    Yeah, it is silly when you can buy Cuban products stateside, and worse when we don't have an embargo with Cuba.

    **shrug**
    'tis what it is though.
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  11. #11
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    I nearly had my PayPal closed for buying a kg of Cuban coffee once.

    I had to ring PayPal and make all sorts of promises that I wouldn't do it again and was told that my account would be monitored.

    The thing was that the coffee was purchased totally from within Australia, but that didn't matter to them.

    If I ever want Cuban coffee it would have to be done with a credit card.

    Ha, politics!

  12. #12
    CoffeeSnobs Owner Andy's Avatar
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    Ahhh... I didn't think of that.
    PayPal balance could be viewed as a transaction from the USA but credit card through PayPal would be just an Australian bank transfer via a third party.

    My head hurts!

  13. #13
    Super Moderator Javaphile's Avatar
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    If payment is made via PayPal I'm not convinced that the source of the funds matter. When you do a PayPal transaction PayPal charges your funds source (Your bank account, credit card, or PayPal balance.) with that money going into a corporate PayPal account. PayPal then deducts their charges from that total and passes on the remainder to the payee. When you pay for something via PayPal using your credit card the charge on your credit card is not from the company you're paying, it is a charge from PayPal. Likewise when the company you're paying receives their payment it is not a payment from your credit card company, it is a payment from PayPal. No matter if the funds come from your credit card, your bank account, or your PayPal balance your payment is still a transaction via PayPal.

    If you wish to avoid the PayPal transaction issue your payment must be done directly between you and the company you're buying from with PayPal not being involved at all.


    Java "More head spin!" phile
    Toys! I must have new toys!!!

  14. #14
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    Yep Java, that is what I meant actually, but it didn't seem to come across.

    The thing was to avoid PayPal totally and just use the credit card for payment directly to the company.

    Sorry about my lack of clarity and causing confusion.

  15. #15
    Super Moderator Javaphile's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ravenscroft View Post
    Yep Java, that is what I meant actually, but it didn't seem to come across.

    The thing was to avoid PayPal totally and just use the credit card for payment directly to the company.

    Sorry about my lack of clarity and causing confusion.
    Yeah I figured that's what you meant. I just gave the cross_all_the_t's_and_dot_all_the_i's_explanation.


    Java "Dot what?" phile
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  16. #16
    Senior Member artman's Avatar
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    I use PayPal when I need my fix pronto, bank transfer through different banks can take at least to days. Need to plan ahead!

    Cheers

  17. #17
    CoffeeSnobs Owner Andy's Avatar
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    19/7/16
    nothing much to say... problem is still there, it got worse last night and then better this morning then worse again.
    Seems most payment are "clearing" in half a day and new payments are going on hold again. It's a nightmare at this end trying to keep track of it all.

    Orders are shipping as normal though, the only difference will be if we don't have a cleared payment when it ships you won't get an email notification but you can still see the tracking in BeanBay under [My Previous Orders]

    Fingers crossed someone who can fix it does so soon!

  18. #18
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by artman View Post
    I use PayPal when I need my fix pronto, bank transfer through different banks can take at least to days. Need to plan ahead!

    Cheers
    Yep, planning ahead has its advantages.

    I've been buying from BeanBay for about 10 years, always pay by bank transfer and have never come close to running out, it's an easy thing to keep an eye on your green bean supply, when I'm under 10 kg, time to place an order.

    Bank transfer processed within 24 hrs, NAB, and no PayPal charges, I have a PayPal account, seldom use it.

    Not tryin to preach, however it's a system that works for me.
    Dimal likes this.

  19. #19
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    I imagine Andy, that you have reminded PayPal of the turnover in CS and the risk they are putting on the potential income they derive; from the numbers you quoted above...

    Mal.

  20. #20
    Senior Member trentski's Avatar
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    Probably a rounding error for them Mal

  21. #21
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    No doubt mate....
    Bloody annoying though...

    Mal.

  22. #22
    CoffeeSnobs Owner Andy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dimal View Post
    I imagine Andy, that you have reminded PayPal of the turnover in CS and the risk they are putting on the potential income they derive; from the numbers you quoted above...

    Mal.
    I did mention it on today's phone call but agree, it's pretty much a rounding error in the global turnover. Spoke with Michael (I think it was) who could see I spoke with Amber a couple of days ago. He was apologetic and put me on hold while he "escalated the problem" with the correct support team.

    I suspect the problem jobs in the queue at PayPal HQ are numbered in many thousands per day and I have a picture of two stressed employees sitting in a dark corner pulling their hair out.

    Phone support is pretty prompt and done by nice people but I really want it fixed now. It's been 4.5 days, way too long.

    Hopefully some magic happens soon.
    Dimal likes this.

  23. #23
    CoffeeSnobs Owner Andy's Avatar
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    ...and 8 days later and 2 phone calls we still have the same problem.

    I'll call again tomorrow (as they don't take business calls on weekends)

    **SIGH**

  24. #24
    CoffeeSnobs Owner Andy's Avatar
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    Day 9 and the saga continues.

    Made the call, got Amber again. Pleasant and helpful and even remembered the problem from a week ago which is impressive but nothing much has changed.

    She put me on hold and spoke to the "escalation team" who said they should be able to fix it by putting some sort of exemption on the account so it doesn't happen again and all payments in there currently will be cleared.

    She couldn't find any record of Michael escalating the problem last week and there was no "ticket number generated"...hmmm...

    This time I received a ticket number PT2974046 so that somehow makes it more traceable and might help on future calls if I don't get Amber again. I'm told that is should be sorted in less than 72 hours which puts it about Wednesday.

    Talk about a slow turning ship.

  25. #25
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy View Post
    Day 9 and the saga continues.

    Made the call, got Amber again. Pleasant and helpful and even remembered the problem from a week ago which is impressive but nothing much has changed.

    She put me on hold and spoke to the "escalation team" who said they should be able to fix it by putting some sort of exemption on the account so it doesn't happen again and all payments in there currently will be cleared.

    She couldn't find any record of Michael escalating the problem last week and there was no "ticket number generated"...hmmm...

    This time I received a ticket number PT2974046 so that somehow makes it more traceable and might help on future calls if I don't get Amber again. I'm told that is should be sorted in less than 72 hours which puts it about Wednesday.

    Talk about a slow turning ship.
    I feel your frustration, trying to communicate with big online organizations is seldom easy.

  26. #26
    Senior Member artman's Avatar
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    Reminds me of a telco issue I had. They kept escalating it every time I called. After a couple of weeks I asked if it has reached the moon yet with all the escalations....

    I have found once you get to speak to someone local you can get some sense and results.

    Hope yours is fixed soon.

    Cheers

  27. #27
    CoffeeSnobs Owner Andy's Avatar
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    Day 10...
    I'm told by Britney that its in the escalation queue which normally takes about 2 days for the magic to happen.
    The 2 days is counted from yesterday as that's when Amber reported it... apparently there is no record of Michael logging it with the "team" last week.

    Sadly, I'm first name basis with everyone there at the moment, and can still hear that atrocious hold music for an hour after making the call.

    Maybe tomorrow is the end of this silly saga?

  28. #28
    Senior Member readeral's Avatar
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    When I worked at Vodafone, as an Australian answering basic customer service calls, we gave "ticket numbers". It was just a random number generated by our client management software for the note we put on the customers account. Not searchable or anything, didn't represent anything properly, but it seemed to satisfy some customers that the work we were doing on the phone was now actually logged or something.

    Truth be known, of course every phone-call was noted/recorded and the work was submitted to be fixed, but the actual case-work was then offshored to get processed, and took weeks to get done if there was a backlog. If you speak to an Australian (or a manager, etc.), the likely reality is that the grunt work of any problem will still be done by a pleb.

    Don't mean to be a downer on all this, but having worked on the inside, the lengths that businesses go to gain 'efficiencies' by splitting the case work from the customer service work never ceases to astound me. It's the best way to make sure that problems take twice as long to fix.

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    Just put in an order for 500g of Sumatra Mandheling in hopes of being in time for tommorow's roasting (27th) but got this message after submitting payment through Paypal

    Hope it's all sorted out soon!

  30. #30
    CoffeeSnobs Owner Andy's Avatar
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    Day 11...

    Congrats Vik33, it appears you were the lucky last person to see the message that your payment is "pending". It still shows as pending and no, we didn't receive payment for it (yet) but your coffee was fresh roasted and shipped today, we will sort payment with you in a day or so after the dust settles.

    The good news is it appears to be working normally now, Amber sent me an email late today to say that the problem was resolved (nice of her to do that) but we had already seen many payments today go though without a hitch.

    We still have 5 payments that were flatly "rejected" (as opposed to pending) and we will sort through those with the CS'rs tomorrow.

    The wash-up of all this is that PayPal is a great online service, very fast transactions and great for multi-currency and cross border transactions too. Down-side is their fees are high, business support action is very slow and there is no local branch to walk into and throw a tantrum (that would have made me feel better).

    They list an address of Level 23, 1 York Street, Sydney, NSW 2000 but that is the registered address of Ebay and Gumtree... so I doubt PayPal are there anymore... besides, I'm guessing security won't let you in the elevator!
    Might just have to find a CoffeeSnob in San Jose USA that can do the remote ranting in their HQ foyer for me.

    So, hopefully everything is back to normal now thanks mostly to Amber who followed this up a couple of times and kept an eye on it to ensure the fix happened.

    May we wait another dozen years before seeing this amount of grief from them again!
    Dimal likes this.

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    thanks mate, really appreciate that!

    glad the problem looks to be over now

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