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Thread: Speed Week 2017 - Lake Gairdner

  1. #51
    CoffeeSnobs Owner Andy's Avatar
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    ....next time we expect you to make the final pass on one wheel and at 200mph....
    I'm more than happy to do that as it would mean I was getting traction! I know when the GPS was showing 319 my bike speedo was showing 386... even allowing for some error on the speedo it was still 60kmh odd of wheel spin, near 20% and if that got traction all of a sudden then it would certainly be on one wheel at least for a moment before the backflip and a whole lot of salt/sky/salt/sky/salt/sky action.

    Great to see the Aeropress endorsed as the ideal solution for camping.
    Not just camping, it's the device I travel with all over the planet. Airport friendly, light, small, simple and all you need is a kettle. No reason to ever drink little packets of instant in the hotel room! However, it doesn't produce espresso (even if it says so on the packaging) but it does produce a bolder, better bodied plunger coffee. It's the first thing in my travel bag when I head anywhere.

    Would a change to grippier tyre help too? Not sure if special tread/compound would improve traction on salt?
    That's a long discussion, the shorter version is... Before going I contacted multiple tyre manufacturers who as soon as they heard I was going to the salt suddenly went deaf and the line dropped-out. Seriously! The tyre guys have no idea what will survive 300+ with wheel spin heating the tyre for an extended period of time. While a couple of companies make 300+ LSR (land speed racing) tyres for cars no one will put their name on one for a motorbike.

    I ended up using RS10R which are medium sticky race tyres with a vague tread. I had soft racing slicks on the bike at Phillip Island which were awesome on the black stuff but I was warned that they might "chunk" (start throwing chunks off) on the salt at speed. I have even seen delaminating at those speeds which would be entertaining to say the least.

    I did take a tyre groover with me and was keen to try the RS10R with some additional tread cut into the centre-line of the tyre but didn't get the time to try that with our two fastests passes the last runs for the week. The gotcha with adding more tread apart from vibration and increased chance of chunking is that salt quickly packs into the tread and you run the risk of running on less tyre, not more traction.

    The bike runs on centre two inches of the tyre (obvious in the pic below) and that will become more like one inch at speed with centrifugal force. The tyres held-up well to the abuse with just a bit of feathering on the leading tread on the rear and the front tyre looks brand new. Tyre selection was based on compound and importantly shape, you need a pointy tyre for a small contact patch so it cuts into the crust, a wider contact point causes even more slippage as it will run on the loose top surface.

    RS10R-2.jpgRS10R-1.jpg

    I would have been wearing brown underpants
    Nah, not needed, too busy laughing maniacally with a grin in my helmet big enough to make my jaw sore.

    ComAir wind tunnel
    Monash and others have wind tunnels but I don't know anyone that can push more than 240kmh through it and as I found, EVERYTHING aero changes quickly in small speed changes at that end. Lockheed Martin in the states have a great one... but I don't think I'll wait by the phone for the call.

    I better understand the real challenge of salt racing now, hostile and changing environment, small number of runs to try something different and 12 months wait between races so you can't troubleshoot with track-time like you can in most other forms of motorsport.
    artman, Dazzler, Dimal and 3 others like this.

  2. #52
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    Great mini-tutorial Andy...

    Mal.

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    So tyres was the main topic of conversation over a morning coffee with fellow bike competitors??

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    Speed Week Lake 2017-Lake Gairdner

    Great news. Many years ago I was a very junior engineer on the Donald Campbell world speed attempt wheel and tyre development team. The tyres we finished up with had some 16 layers of Egyptian Cotton casing, and only a very thin waterproofing layer of rubber to keep any moisture out. Inflated to very high pressure with this rigid casing, the main worry was the development of a standing wave when the distortion at the contact patch could not recover before hitting the ground again. We ran one test well over speed and watched as this wave developed to destruction.
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  5. #55
    CoffeeSnobs Owner Andy's Avatar
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    So tyres was the main topic of conversation over a morning coffee with fellow bike competitors??
    Not really, most tyre discussions I had with others ended with a shrug and "it hasn't self-destructed yet" type answers. It would be great to have someone in the tyre industry have a look at motorcycle tyres but with numbers of competitors worldwide so low I can't see that happening anytime soon.

    Great news. Many years ago I was a very junior engineer on the Donald Campbell world speed attempt wheel and tyre development team. The tyres we finished up with had some 16 layers of Egyptian Cotton casing, and only a very thin waterproofing layer of rubber to keep any moisture out. Inflated to very high pressure with this rigid casing, the main worry was the development of a standing wave when the distortion at the contact patch could not recover before hitting the ground again. We ran one test well over speed and watched as this wave developed to destruction.
    WOW! That's a fascinating insight and a very cool thing to have been a part of.
    In our modern times of high speed film everywhere the best example I can think of the wave is the top fuel dragsters that twist their tyre walls into a knot (loaded spring) and if they get it wrong they get a wave that they then drive over causing either no traction or worse, failure.

    Topfuel-tyres.jpg
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    Great pic. Andy. It took days to clean up our concrete bunker after the failure, just get the brooms out on the drag course I presume. Very different constraints with the dragsters tho', not just top speed but getting there in such a short distance, so massive grip needed. The Grand Prix Sunday was interesting from the tyre point of view.
    Andy and blonk like this.

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    You're too modest Andy. Just checked DLRA results and see that your 198.238 (the one that you backed up to the third decimal point!) set a 1000 MPS-BG class record (=1000cc Modified Partial Streamline Supercharged Gas). Also, on my counting, your 8 passes was equalled by only one other competitor. Surely that is also testament to your preparation and attention to detail. Wasn't there a motorcycle Rookie award? You must surely have been in the running for that. Congratulations!
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  8. #58
    CoffeeSnobs Owner Andy's Avatar
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    Thanks Otago.
    It really was a great week away.
    I didn't notice that the 8 passes was "that" high, I did know that I would have done 8 a day if the queues moved faster and I would have been happy to run at night if the lake didn't close at 6pm.

    Hmmm... night racing on the salt would be wicked. A fair bit cooler and as long as you had a wide enough beam you could still see the track markers.


    The biggest gotcha with salt racing is that it's really "in my head" now. I'm seeing aerodynamics everywhere I look and sometimes in really odd places, I can't sit and watch telly without drifting off into thought about how to improve the bike next year and get more of that power it's making down to the ground. I don't have answers yet but I have plenty of ideas.

    Can't wait!
    artman, Dimal, flynnaus and 2 others like this.

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    Traction

    interesting article.

  10. #60
    Junior Member SJG351's Avatar
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    DLRA General meeting on the 21st of May in Thomastown Vic if anyone is interested, details available on the website.

  11. #61
    CoffeeSnobs Owner Andy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dazzler View Post
    interesting article.
    I agree it's interesting but also pretty much the same conclusion. A good salt tyre is one that is still intact at the other end of the race track.


    DLRA General meeting on the 21st of May in Thomastown Vic if anyone is interested, details available on the website.
    I would attend the meeting but not on my anniversary! That would be a sure fire way not to get a "pass out" for the salt next year.
    Maybe the next one.


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    Hi Andy, Dimal, Readeral and others!
    I'm quite pleased this thread is still active. It's my first post and this thread has really touched my first love of life - racing, engines, power and all the technologies that make those 3 things happen in the best possible way and push it forward each year. It also makes the person involved in it push themselves each event.

    I am also pleased this is Andy's thread so I can thank him for running this site and allowing us others to lurk around for ten years (->me) and enjoy all the great info that those passionate "coffee snobs" impart (I'm thinking of Dimal, whose article on the BZ Minibar/BZ35 restoration I first read on the site, 10 years ago because I acquired a used BZ35DE) on the naive souls that find their way here when they do a Google search on their first espresso machine (usually of $200 value for most of us mortals, mine was a Breville Ikon BS400XL) and end up finding the best, and realistic responses right here on Coffeesnobs.

    Then they find out, the "Snobs" are no different then the rest of us and have interests outside of beans, roastings, pointy end machines and grinders that cost over a thousand dollars (Readeral - I followed your Profitec Pro 64 discoveries on this site and decided on the ECM S-64, a twin of sorts).

    Now these are just 3 of the knowledgeable people that I remember, certainly not the only ones who have helped me along the way.

    I've had this thread open for ten days and wanting to say something to make up for 10 years of being an anonymous lurker. Clearly, I am not an avid writer and may not contribute anything of value to the coffee community.

    But heh, it was just meant to say a big thanks to Andy, Dimal, Readeral and many others. I doubt you know how much you are read around the world. (Or maybe you do, because I know you read home-barista.com from time to time).

    Wrapping it up: Best of luck for your next outing on the big salt, Andy. Enjoy the buzz and keep all limbs attached !
    Andy, Dimal and readeral like this.

  13. #63
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    Appreciate your kind comments Biker12...
    Most of use around here really enjoy helping others get started in this terrific pastime, hobby, obsession, and am glad to hear that some of my ramblings may have been helpful.

    Now that you've started posting mate, keep it up...

    Mal.

  14. #64
    CoffeeSnobs Owner Andy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Biker12 View Post
    Wrapping it up: Best of luck for your next outing on the big salt, Andy. Enjoy the buzz and keep all limbs attached!
    Limbs attached -- check.
    (it was actually fairly high on my requirements list at the salt although if I'm being really honest it might not have been higher than "go really fast" though).

    Glad you love the community here, it's a great resource made-up of many, many great people from vastly different backgrounds... all with at least one common interest.

    Enjoy!

  15. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dimal View Post

    Now that you've started posting mate, keep it up...

    Mal.
    I can't promise there will be much useful information from me - but I'll try with my own thread now that I can post anywhere. Thanks to Readeral keeping me going late last night.

    But I'll NEVER catch up to you Dimal:
    " Posts 15,176 " (and still clocking up more!)

    I just looked at Andy's post count. You 2 are neck on neck....
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  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy View Post
    ...it's a great resource made-up of many, many great people from vastly different backgrounds... all with at least one common interest.

    Enjoy!
    At least one common interest - COFFEE (in it's various ways of preparation) ! ! !

    That's why I signed up here.

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