Can I assume that is 20 full turns of the adjuster (on micrometric) rather than the collar?Originally Posted by Talk_Coffee link=1213487719/0#0 date=1213487718
This thread created for owners of the the Digital Macap M4D/M5D to share use and care tips...
Seems that Macap have just included standard M4 manuals with their grinders and no specific instructions (or instructions in Italian if youre lucky ::)) for the digital side of things.
Here is what I did with mine:
•Hold the big silver button down for at least 5 seconds. This will take you into program mode
•Rotate the button and you will be presented with a number of options, single, double, continuous, language, dose counter, exit
•Select your chosen option by pressing once and then rotating the button to set the appropriate value and then press again to lock in
•Rotate through to “exit” and then press again to leave program mode…
With mine, I firstly navigated through to continuous mode and selected “on”. This allowed me to use the grinder in continuous mode, dose as I normally do *and set the grind. Once that was done and using a Giotto, I set the single grind time to 5.7 sec. To dose a double, I grind a single, collapse it to create headspace and then add another single. Tamp as per usual and go for it.
You should find that only small changes are required as your coffee ages or when you change bean. I have so far varied my grind time by 0.1 sec and particle size by about a notch up and down.
*NB- *Macap ship these grinders with the grind set extremely fine. For micrometric owners, *I recommend that you start 20 full turns coarser than factory setting and dial in from there. For stepped grinders, like mine, I adjusted the blades of my empty grinder until they touched and then started ¼ turn of the collar coarser.
Hope that helps!
Can I assume that is 20 full turns of the adjuster (on micrometric) rather than the collar?Originally Posted by Talk_Coffee link=1213487719/0#0 date=1213487718
Yes Ron- or youd be holding the burr carrier in your hand ;)Originally Posted by rong link=1213487719/0#1 date=1213502052
Mine had an extra page of instructions in the box (in English) for the M4D programming.
Loving it so far. Just no mess at all!
Dont tease me moby
I am waiting on delivery for my M4D
Maybe you could post a copy in this thread.Originally Posted by _moby_ link=1213487719/0#3 date=1213521086
Picked up my m4d from Chris yesterday, set it up, loaded some beans then double checked the packaging for some instructions on the digital side of things. None. I remembered that Chris said to access the program by pressing and holding the button, which I did. It just didnt occur to me that I had to turn it to enter the values, so I just looked at it trying the same things over a few times, nothing. Could get it to grind at the factory default settings so was able to adjust that into the ball park.
Im sure I was told but in the excitement of the moment, in one ear and out the other, you know how it goes. I called Chris then looked on the net and fired off an email to a guy in London who had received instructions with his.
Whilst waiting for a reply from either or both I thought I would take another look. Switched the grinder on held down the button then turned it!! Bingo!! In my defence the button looks like a button not a knob! Be easy on me!
Then the machine opened up its secrets....... the logic is magic and once understood is plain simple.
There is a direct correlation between grind texture and volume which is fascinating especially seeing how the smallest incremental changes in settings have a noticeable effect on the pour and shot quality. I mostly use a single 14gm pf basket and I have set the the single dose value to 2.6 seconds. This allows dose and collapse twice then filling and leveling with my index finger and tamping.
My coffee set up is in the same room as a wood heater so temperature and humidity fluctuate, in the morning I have previously had to coarsen the grind bringing it finer during the day. This morning I had to back the grind off two turns as usual ( the m4 is going out to join the machine at work) and shortened the grind time by 0.1 seconds. This evening, back two turns finer and 2.6 secs.
The 21gm double is set at 5.7 secs as Chris has suggested and worked fine this afternoon using his urban blend, more on that one during the week.
Not only consistent shots but a consistent and minimal amount of waste - less than a gram per basket!! This is one tidy grinder!!!
I live by myself and so mostly Im making one coffee at a time and I found that with the m4 doser the waste of residual grinds in the chute and doser is the same whether making one cup of coffee or twenty in a row. So I weighed the waste from 500gms of beans- 150 gms. (25 shots @ 14 gms with an average 6gms waste per shot, 1gm off the top of the basket, 5 gms in the chute and doser)
This grinder has gone to work where multiple coffees are made at the same time therefore it will reduce the waste ratio and the doser chamber made useful by continuous grinding whilst preparing the first shots. Thats the plan. Please dont misunderstand me the m4d is also an awesome grinder; it will come into its own in the work setting.
Back to the m4d....... no clumping issues, the delivery is direct and doesnt throw, it looks awesome, cant fault the shots and its tidy tidy tidy!!!
The twosome has just become a threesome!!!
Ill see if I can scan it at work tomorrow.Originally Posted by Thundergod link=1213487719/0#5 date=1213529668
After my playing around thus far Ive found that Ive set the single dose timer at 5.1sec and that seems to be working well for me with the same method as described above. I was hitting the showerscreen on the Giotto if dosed up much more than that and getting some side channelling possibly due to the puck being disturbed. Guess maybe I’m grinding a bit finer than others at a lower dose.
Anyway, for the moment it is working well at that setting but no doubt I’ll keep tweaking as I go.
I am one of the lucky ones that have the instructions
I have created a PDF of the Instructions for easy printing
Have had no problems so far
Make sure to hold the button for 10 seconds for programing
Same button toggle right or left to adjust (it is a little smooth and hard to get traction)
More to come after a little use
Just came to upload the instructions but have been beaten to it. Hopefully everyone is enjoying their new grinders. It really is very easy and enjoyable to use.
Thanks for the extra instructions. As soon as I can synchronize being at home when TNT deliver (currently 1-0), Ill have a go :)
No problem rong (re - instructions)
Try Asking TNT if you can redirect the parcel to a work address? or if you are close collect from the TNT depot.
I am finding it a whole new learning curve using the M4D. I am coming from a Compak K3E which has a doser. My whole technique for dosing the pf has had to change. It took me a little while to realise I wasnt packing as much into the pf. With the K3 I would always grind more than required, so I could overfill the pf and in the process make a big mess. Now I am fine tuning to fill the pf with minimal mess - sounds simple, but in practise taking a while. :-[
I have to say, I love this grinder. The reason I decided to upgrade was the mess factor, and it has definitely delivered. The size next to my Minore II is also much better with the smaller hopper (it never felt right that the K3E was "bigger" than the Minore ::)). The programming side of it is also very simple (I was fortunate to have instructions with mine - but thanks to those who provided copies).
In Brisbane the humidity has been fluctuating and there is a direct correlation with how fine the grind is and clumping.
I don’t consider clumping a big issue as it does not affect the taste of the coffee.
In fact it helps in a way as grinds are held together and not disbursed all over the place
(One quick stir prior to tamp and all is well)
For this reason I have my M4D set on continuos grind as I need to adjust the grind regularly for humidity and regular changing of bean types
At the moment I am judging level by eye? It’s not very hard and most practical for my constant grind adjustments
Humidity and regular grind adjustments is also one of the reasons I purchased the stepped model
Quick comments so far
I find it a breeze to use with quiet operation (it’s so quiet you can hear a humming birds wings flap)
Beautiful grind consistency that’s matched with extreme grind speed
Clean, clean, clean operation
At long last the shiny item arrived, unscaithed (I must have had the concienous TNT employee :)) and with English programming instructions.
I promptly wound out 20 turns, and ended up winding back 19 (now have some plunger grinds). One thing I found was that the age of the roast is quite significant. The initial setting up used beans around 7 days (from roast) and the texture of the ground was good - no clumps. After a few shots they ran out, so I had to add the new batch of beans (roasted that day). The texture appeared a lot smoother, but the clumping is awful as a result. Adjusting the grind coarser just resulted in a faster pour and still very clumpy.
Unfortunately having to use a new batch made life difficult, but I can see that it may take time to assess the adjustments to account for age of roast.
Overall it is a fantastic addition to the coffee toolkit and the noise level is a lot less than my previous grinder.
Its good to hear about the success others are having with this grinder, and I can affirm most of what has been said already - clean, quiet etc. *The main benefit for me has been consistency in mass, and therefore the elimination of a variable. *I bought a little electronic scale. and for a few weeks was weighing each grind. *I got sick of it in the end, becasue the answer was almost always within 0.2g. *
At the moment, I have "dose singola" (call me a wally for changing the display language to Italian) set at 4.1sec, and "dose doppia" set at 7.6. *Why is the double not "double"? *Not sure, but perhaps theres a startup/winddown overhead. *Works consisently with my Elektra Leva, which is sensitive to over-dosing. *I do call on "dose continua" sometimes - I think the "lie of the beans" sometimes affects things - rarely happens, and only then when the hopper is nearly empty. *Perhaps Im imagining that. *
I read somewhere that a user set the single on 0.1 sec to clear the chute of stale grinds, and then used the double setting as his sole timed grind. *Ive measured the amount of grinds in the chute at <0.3g, which is perhaps not worth wasting a setting on.
Here in inland Tassie theres possibly not as much variation in temperature/humidity as elsewhere. *I find adjustments are necessary with different beans, or rather, with different seat-of-pants-popcorn-roasted batches of the same beans. *Never more than 0.2 sec either way, or 2 steps. *The point is that at least you know the timing with some precision, and can therefore keep a better track of what youve done.
Has anyone experienced occasional motor stalling during the grind? I have had it happen 2 or 3 times now.
The only changes I have made is to adjust for age (normally only a turn of micrometric adjuster). I have only had it a couple of weeks so there hasnt been that much coffee ground - perhaps a kilo.
Everything is working fine with my grinder RonOriginally Posted by rong link=1213487719/0#16 date=1214642646
I have put just under 1kg through it
However I have the stepped version but that should not be any different to yours
The only way an electric motor will stall is if it’s under stress so if the beans (ground or whole) are holding or wedging the two grinder blade surfaces to tight it will cause it to stop
I would back off a little on the dial and see how that goes
Hmm Rong- are you saying the motor stops or the motor continues and that the grind stops...Originally Posted by Koffee Kosmo link=1213487719/0#17 date=1214655553
If its the former, keep an eye on it and please come back with your observations. If its the latter- look for oily beans or too fine a grind....
The grind was stalling (motor still running, but under load). At first I thought it may have been the odd bean (would have to be hard) that was sticking and jamming the works. I have backed off a bit on the grind, and just get faster pours. It doesnt happen all the time and I havent had any problems since the post.
When determining the setting, where do you read the number on the carrier? At the front, by the settings button or at the back by the micrometric adjuster?
Do you think I should empty, wind in to stop then wind out and redial in the grind? What setting are you on (as a guide - read from where)?
Hi Ron,Originally Posted by rong link=1213487719/0#19 date=1214809667
Id suggest that you be a little careful about winding the burrs into contact and backing off as its too easy to leave burrs in contact with the very fine adjustment of the micrometric drive. If I was to do this, Id remove the drive with an allen key and do it with a gross adjustment of the grinder collar by hand to make sure I got it right. Its too easy to kill a set of burrs ;)
FWIW, I am a grind setting of exactly 7 (read at the centre of the silver button)- however this is for my grinder and my batch of beans. Oily beans will tend to stall as well- so that could be a factor.
I recommend that you go back to a continuous grind and dial in your grind again for your beans and dosing technique and then experiment with time from there.
The beans are not oily and not what I would class a dark roast. Strangely enough this morning I wound back another 2 full turns and just near the end of the second grind (of 2xsingles) it almost stalled again. I am at a loss as to what could be the problem. It seems pointless to keep adjusting the grind coarser, as the coffee suffers as a result.
Is there something obvious that I am missing?
Sounds to me that the motor capacitor is open circuit or wiring to it is open somewhere :(. Id suggest that it should be returned for inspection and repair if required.....
All sounds not well Ron,
I have contacted the importer for an opinion but that doesnt sound normal...
I think it will need to be looked at and have emailed you.
Wasnt shipped by the dreaded TNT was it Chris? If it was dropped or treated roughly in some other way, they may have caused the capacitor to break loose or dislodged a connection.... :-?
Everything is still shipped by the dreaded (and aptly named) TNT, Mal. What they seem to do best is explode things into shrapnel ::)...
It seems we live in a country where 10k+ each year in freight is not of interest to any other freight company...I continue to work on it
Must drive you to distraction mate.....
Youre not bald are you Chris >:(Originally Posted by Mal link=1213487719/20#26 date=1214990778
because I see you in my minds eye pulling your hair out
Glad I found you guys. I have just purchased both the Giotto Premium and the Macap M4D - and seem to have very little idea of what I am doing. Bare in mind, Ive had a huge leap from the Sunbeam Cafe series machine and burr grinder. Ive had a private lesson, but only on the Giotto.
My question here would be what is the factory grind setting for the micrometic? I pulled it out of the box and then fiddled with it and now am so lost its not funny.
I will try to attempt the instructions given by Chris, as thus far I am not able to fill the pf scrape off the excess and then tamp, I seem to get enough in the pf without doing this - is this bad??
Does anyone else get a whooping noise when the brew lever is pulled on their Giotto?
Would appreciate any advice as now I have the toys, I need to produce the goods!!!
Hi twistie and welcome to the Giotto club.Originally Posted by twistiebrinkley link=1213487719/20#28 date=1226696942
Best bet is to get some quality training....Also, have a look over Scotties training materials http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1226534950 which will head you in the right direction.
My advice is dont even think about the timer function on your grinder until all other factors are in place and you are producing good coffee...
Attending a reputable course really will help a heap. Just beware of the stencilling spatula guys with the 1.5L jugs ;D
Enjoy the ride ;)
Thanks for your welcome and speedy reply. Ill have a read over Scotties material - anything will help.
I figure I need extensive training to work out the basics.
I tried your 5.7 sec on single dose x2 but the pf was difficult to insert into the Giotto, so obviously its too much for me, yes?
For now, I will forget about the timing on the Macap. My pours just seem too fast, but produce good crema, is this the sign of a good coffee or is it the actual time it takes?
Any cleaning tips for the Macap? And how do you descale the Giotto? I use the clean machine powder in the blind pf but this isnt a descale is it?
Thank you for your help....Ive got a long way to go!!!
Any hints on the whooping sound the Giotto makes?
Sounds like it twistie. I am presently at 5.1 sec. Suggest you set the grinder to continuous and get the particle size right first. Once you have the perfect pour, then play with time.Originally Posted by twistiebrinkley link=1213487719/20#30 date=1226701370
Crema *can* be a sign of good coffee, but balance on your palate is way more important. A fast pour will generally taste sour (towards front palate). Make your pour and pucks look like Scotties ;)For now, I will forget about the timing on the Macap. *My pours just seem too fast, but produce good crema, is this the sign of a good coffee or is it the actual time it takes?
Yes- warm water and a mild detergent for the hopper. I remove the top burr set every month or so and have an internal clean as well. Youll need a little Phillips screwdriver or allen key to remove the grind adjustment.Any cleaning tips for the Macap? *And how do you descale the Giotto? *I use the clean machine powder in the blind pf but this isnt a descale is it?
As for descale, grab a brita jug and use it. Descaling will be more like every 2 years then....
Yes- I hear that the new GPP is 50% gibbon/50% cyborg ;D....Its typical of the machine when coffectly set to 9 bar. Just be happy its not the 9 bar scream of the other machine ;)Thank you for your help....Ive got a long way to go!!!
Any hints on the whooping sound the Giotto makes?
If youre in Sydney and would like to contact me we can arrange for you to bring your equipment in, set it up, and provide some personal training so that youre comfortable with it all and making great shots.
I am in Sydney...how do I lug it all in to you? any tips. I am after all a damsel in distress!!! ;D
Thanks again for your advice Chris. I think a deep breath is required and lots of coffee to experiment with - an expensive exercise, but why stop now!!!!
Finally got my M4D this week to go with the Splendor ;D
Thanks to Gus at Jetblack for the great advice and service.
Took awhile to dial in and about half a kilo of beans. The factory setting is way too fine and the motor was stalling so I think the advice to unwind 20 turns is spot on. I currently have the grind set at a smidge over 5, it was set at 4 when it arrived.
Single dose timed at 5.7 secs and double at 8.8secs.
Noticed a difference straight away over the SB 0480 as I should for the price difference. The consistency of the grind is staggering.
Overall one very happy Macap owner ;D
Also Thanks to Greg for recommending the Macap to go with the Diadema [smiley=thumbsup.gif]
Just picked mine up from Chris this weekend (thanks for the tips), after many shots and adjustments I am nearly there. Just getting the grind right, I went throuh 500gm pretty quick.
Fantastic machine and just simple out of the box. Amazingly clean too.
Just a quick follow up. I am using the synesso double baskets and my grind setting is pretty much perfect (I think anyway).
I am doing 2 x 5.3secs single doses and on average am getting 20-21g. I do a single dose collapse, then the second, it is not filling up the basket so I dont level off (a mountain protruding from the basket). I am not very hard with my tamp either.
My pour is very good time wise (dark rich, rat tails) but looking at a couple of naked extractions it seems to be a bit uneven. Could this be because I dont level off.
Should I not collapse after the first dose.
Congratulations. . . . .Unfortunately. . . . .this means that experimenting is the only way to tell what works for you and your machines.
My dose version is: measure by volume, insert beans in grinder, grind until empty (I use a collar in the basket to contain the dose), tap, remove collar, tap, tamp.
If you watch the winner from the Barista Championships, I think youll find he grinds and tamps only--no settling at all.
I keep looking for short, simple, effective with low mess.
Thanks, I will keep experimenting.
Well the mess thing is just not a factor, I have no waste at all its amazing.
Wow, what a nice grinder (thanks Chris at Talk Coffee) an hours play and half a bag of beans and I was in business *:) I had no trouble understanding the instuctions, as Chris had already explained it anyway.
I think I expected it to be a little quieter, it is a different sound to the rocky, but is definitely much quicker.
Now I need to watch some old Dr. Who episodes to work out what to call him, were they Daleks? ;D
I hope it will do me until the conicals only take up the same amount of benchspace as this lovely M4D does ;D
Mine arrived a couple of weeks ago. Love the look, love the neatness, love the quietness and its just so easy to use *:). The ONLY drawback I have found is that it does clump quite a bit more than my old Compak K3E WBC, but thats a doser vs. doserless issue.... I have found a little whisk in the cupboard that breaks up the clumps quite easily.
Also sooo much more flavour in the cup, :) which is lingering on the palate until the next one, which is becoming even more frequent - even for he who claims (wont admit) he cant taste any difference ;D
After owning mine now for a little while I have noticed on occasion that Im getting a very fine needle like spray coming off my naked group handle during extraction followed by a single worm hole right at the edge of the puck once I examine it. Ive never had this before. Reason? How do I fix? Thanks. :)
It may not be of any use, but have you givien the dosed basket a 1/4 turn in the handle to work out whether it is in the dosing or if it is the machine? I would expect that if it is the machine/shower screen, the fault will be in the same spot, if it is dose/basket it will have moved. Hope that gives you somewhere to start :)
My M4D was delivered on Friday afternoon and having never ever played with a grinder before, have struggled a little with getting the grind right. (Im getting increasingly frustrated that just about everyone else has gotten things right with the M4D first go!!!)
Funnily enough, I am finding it easier to get the grind right with plain old store bought beans rather than my good quality ones. Luckily, the coffee using Lavazza has been pretty darn fine, so I will stick with these for the moment and move on to my good ones again when the Lavazza is gone.
One of the things that the Macap instruction booklet is pretty vague on, is cleaning the grinder. That is, cleaning the remnant grounds from the burrs.
I have taken the hopper off the top of the machine and can see that there are some old grounds that need to come out - and have found a paintbrush with some long bristles (its a nice soft brush cos I dont want to break anything so soon after delivery!) but even when I run the grinder to try to get the dislodged bits out, they are still there when the motor stops...
I have also noticed that if I poke my soft bristled paintbrush into the chute, a heap of old grinds come out too... and if I pick the machine up and turn it on its side, then put it upright again, more old grinds come out of the chute. Im not so keen on turning the machine on its side though... Im quite certain theyre not made for that!!!
Sooooo - Could someone please give me some pointers on the best way to clean this machine? I am not feeling all that confident at the moment, so it worrying me that I am going to have to unscrew bits and pieces of the grinder in order to get to the burrs to clean them... but if its gotta be done, Ill call my dad over to supervise at least! :)
Unscrew the top burr & carrier all the way outOriginally Posted by 213C3824293F382D3E4C0 link=1213487719/45#45 date=1266721161
Then brush and vacuum
Not quite as easy with the micrometric version.
Best bet to remove the ends either side of the worm drive adjustment using a small screwdriver. Then remove the entire drive with an allen key. You can in theory remove the side grub screws to hinge the unit back but they are a pig to get back in ::)
Then, do as KK says....
Thanks for the responses Chris and KK.
Just wondering though - do I have to pull the thing apart every week?? Every day?? Every couple of weeks??
Is Grindz going to do the trick and if so, how long will it keep me from having to unscrew things?
Slightly worried that I might destroy something by tinkering with the screws etc.
I pull my grinder apart for cleaning whatever make or model it is 3 to 4 times a year
However an exception to the rule is that on occasions when I have used an oily bean I will pull the grinder apart for cleaning including washing the burs if required when the beans are finished
If you treat with Grindz regularly you can probably reduce that to 1 to 2 times a year
But in the end its a personal choice
A grinder cant be to clean ;)