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  1. #1
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    Large Conical Grinder Users Group...

    Gday All.... :)

    Have been fielding quite a few queries lately, variously about what I think of them, can I notice a difference between my current grinder and previous planar burr grinders, have I had to adjust my roast profiles to suit... And the list goes on.

    So, thought it might be useful and helpful if both owners and prospective owners of large Conical Grinders, could focus their queries and replies into a single repository thread such as this. Might make it easier to locate relevant information into the future.

    All the best,
    Mal.

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    Re: Large Conical Grinder Users Group...

    Hi

    Thanks Mal for the thread - My old thread was a bit stale after having the Kony - e for three weeks.

    Notes to date:
    The Rocky was quiet satisfactory especially with the Silvia but was not able to deal with the demands of the GiottoP. *So I was getting frustrated. I have noticed that the difference between the Rocky that I have had for 4 years and the Kony - e is quite significant.

    The Kony-e is much faster (17gms in 6 sec as against Rs 22secs) and seems to be very accurate in its dosing. It doses by time and it easily adjustable in a read out - the weight is consistent.
    It is also quieter - even when the auxilary fan cuts in. *The grind being very slow is cool (420 rpm). *
    I am a very greenbean at making coffee, but from the very first proper grind all cups have been drinkable.

    The coffee taste is quite different and doing a short double shot is really good (high wife approval). *Currently it has a whole taste. *I am using The blend that Epic uses - but dont get the same taste - yet - ( oh for a Synesso!!!! - no wife approval at all )

    I decided (with Ws Ap) to jump the middle upgrade and go to the top - I have calculated it will pay for itself over 2 years (Giotto is well and truly in the black now).

    (There is a hopper magnet on a ring that us a real mystery - it is available as spare part - which makes me even more worried!)

    Well over caffeine limit
    David


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    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    Re: Large Conical Grinder Users Group...

    Quote Originally Posted by 5C4D55514159380 link=1268471227/1#1 date=1268474074
    (There is a hopper magnet on a ring that us a real mystery - it is available as spare part - which makes me even more worried!)
    Gday David....

    That magnet thingy, is intended to remove ferrous odds and ends that might find their way into the pack of roasted beans - nails, old rusty bolts and nuts, etc.... :-?

    Since I roast my own and run a large-ish "NIB" magnet through the roasted beans before packing and sealing, I dont use the Mazzer part but if you buy your beans already Roasted and packaged, its probably not a bad idea to install it in the bean hopper... Just in case :o. A chunk of steel, an old 3" nail or something equally nasty may well do some damage to those precious set of burrs so better to be safe than sorry.... 8-)

    Mal.

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    Re: Large Conical Grinder Users Group...

    I am one of those strange people who likes to know what is inside a machine.

    I have been hunting for a exploded parts diagram for the Kony-e.
    I have found on the net a rather low grade one for the Robur-e which I have touched up in photoshop. But has any one found one for the Kony-e *that is clear and has information about the part reference numbers.

    The manual accompanying the unit was sparse to put it mildly. I understand this as in most cases the units are supplied under some contract or other.

    I find it helpful to know what I have, and thus know what it is doing. *Help would be appreciated.


    David

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    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    Re: Large Conical Grinder Users Group...

    Quote Originally Posted by 33223A3E2E36570 link=1268471227/4#4 date=1268484204
    I have been hunting for a exploded parts diagram for the Kony-e.
    Gday David,

    I havent seen a parts diagram/manual for the Kony-E anywhere on-line but that doesnt mean there isnt one somewhere. Youd want to be careful to make sure that if you did find one, that it was relevant to the models being sold here in Oz as there are a number of different configurations available for different parts of the world.... ;)

    Mal.

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    TC
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    Re: Large Conical Grinder Users Group...

    [split] [link=http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1197961695/52#52][splithere][/link][splithere_end]

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    Sleep is overrated Thundergod's Avatar
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    Re: Large Conical Grinder Users Group...

    Quote Originally Posted by 260B0F030E620 link=1268471227/0#0 date=1268471227
    So, thought it might be useful and helpful if both owners and prospective owners of large Conical Grinders, could focus their queries and replies into a single repository thread such as this. Might make it easier to locate relevant information into the future.
    Good idea Mal.

    Youve inspired me to think about getting back to cleaning the Gino Rossi so I can do some taste comparisons.

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    Re: Large Conical Grinder Users Group...

    Good stuff TG.... :)

    Mal.

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    Re: Large Conical Grinder Users Group...

    Clumps and lumps!

    I noticed that I was getting lumps in the grinds. *I have been emailing other users about this. These lumps are not as hard as I had with the Rocky. *I notice if I stir them up to break them the result is a much softer taste.

    I watched our favourite Coffee *shop grind (Robur-e) for our cups and it did not have any lumps at all!

    I was talking with our suppliers technician about this and he said that the Robur-e I was talking about had had a modification.
    I have no intention of doing this but it was interesting to find out a bit more.
    Under the burrs there is an impeller that throws the grinds out into the doserless doser. *There is a anti static screen that the grinds pass through and from time to time the finer grinds collect here until they break loose. *These are the lumps I get. *It seems that some techs in setting up the big commercials remove these screens. *I have an exploded diagram of a Rubur -e and the screen is there.

    I vaguely wonder if cleaning the screen would help - but this cannot be easily done as it is deep inside the grinder. *I may have initially been grind too find and clogged it up. I am just curious but I felt it was worth noting in this thread.

    David


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    Re: Large Conical Grinder Users Group...

    From my observations in humid QLD

    The 3 culprits that cause lumps & clumps are
    1] Static & humidity
    2] Oily beans
    3] To fine a grind

    Or a combination of all the above

    A small whisk does a fantastic job in sorting out those pesky lumps & clumps * ;) see photo

    KK


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    Senior Member javabeen's Avatar
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    Re: Large Conical Grinder Users Group...

    Nutate tamp can also be used to take care of clumps lumps

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    Re: Large Conical Grinder Users Group...

    Quote Originally Posted by 5A5146515255555E300 link=1268471227/10#10 date=1268744482
    Nutate tamp can also be used to take care of clumps lumps *
    Yep, works a treat and doesnt require any additional tools to interfere with the work flow of grind > dose > (nutating) tamp > lock-in and pour.

    Have been using this routine for many years now and it never fails me... 8-)

    Mal.

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    Re: Large Conical Grinder Users Group...

    Re: Large Conical Grinder Users Group...
    Reply #10 - Today at 00:01 * *Nutate tamp can also be used to take care of clumps lumps


    For some one who is in total ignorance and probably needs clear instructions, *I would be very grateful if someone could explain what a nutate tamp is.

    You have my complete attention.

    David

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    A_M
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    Re: Large Conical Grinder Users Group...

    Quote Originally Posted by 49584044544C2D0 link=1268471227/12#12 date=1268785612
    Re: Large Conical Grinder Users Group...
    Reply #10 - Today at 00:01 * *Nutate tamp can also be used to take care of clumps lumps


    For some one who is in total ignorance and probably needs clear instructions, *I would be very grateful if someone could explain what a nutate tamp is.

    You have my complete attention.

    David
    Use teh advances search function and select ALL posts.

    Lots of post / discussions and even utube vids.


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    Re: Large Conical Grinder Users Group...

    Quote Originally Posted by 7F6E7672627A1B0 link=1268471227/12#12 date=1268785612
    what a nutate tamp is.
    Mountains of discussion on this forum, on an action thats not too easy to describe in words. *So, applying the "pictures worth a thousand words" theory: *http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BgoVQTK0-9I

    Imagine the circle thats nutating is the base of your tamper and youll have the idea :)

    edit: beaten by a lightning quick (7th espresso for the day is it?) AM! :P

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    Re: Large Conical Grinder Users Group...

    KK
    The 3 culprits that cause lumps & clumps are
    1] Static & humidity
    2] Oily beans
    3] To fine a grind
    Or a combination of all the above
    A small whisk does a fantastic job in sorting out those pesky lumps & clumps


    Thank you for the information.
    I think each in list has a bearing on my grinds. *Currently we are so dry that we get zapped from a car door handle (static) or when the sea breeze come in high humidity.
    I am not sure how oily the beans are, but the grind may be a little fine. *So it will be a challenge to get the balance right.
    The whisk: Well I was too embarrassed to admit I have one just like your photo and it works well.

    I am grateful for your posting as I am beginning to understand getting the grinds right is the key to good coffee. *This is a hard lesson to learn.

    The coffee is still great but striving to perfection can be a struggle.
    many thanks
    david

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    Senior Member javabeen's Avatar
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    Re: Large Conical Grinder Users Group...

    Quote Originally Posted by 4B5A4246564E2F0 link=1268471227/8#8 date=1268740237
    I have an exploded diagram of a Rubur -e and the screen is there.
    Any chance of posting this up so we can get a looksee? Interested to see what you are referring to.

    Javabeen.

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    Re: Large Conical Grinder Users Group...

    Javabeen

    Because the pictures are not very clear I am posting the web address
    All being well click on the model you want and it usually opens a page that loads an exploded parts diagram
    The Kony- e is not there but the Major -e and the Robur-e are.
    I can post the diagram on this site but try the source first.
    I find it help to know whats inside. These are not the Australian specifications


    http://www.espressoparts.com/MazzerAstoriaRioEspressoGrinderParts

    Dumiya

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    Re: Large Conical Grinder Users Group...

    Hi

    I have been trying the nutating tamping.
    If I am sort of doing the right thing it is working.
    I no longer use my whisk.

    My idea of the nutating tamp is to gentle roll the tamp around the centre lightly tamping the outer grinds in the basket. The tamper base is stationery with the top of the knob moving in a circle. *Then doing the normal press tamp.

    It is working

    Dumiya

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    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    Re: Large Conical Grinder Users Group...

    Good to hear David.... :)

    What you could try, is to gently push the coffee grounds around the basket with the nutating action, rather than spinning it around the edge of the basket. This way, youre using the nutating action to mix up the grounds quite a bit and remove any trace of possible voids or cohesive clumps (should they ever occur). Its kind of how a Swash-Plate Pump works....

    Mal.

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    Senior Member javabeen's Avatar
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    Re: Large Conical Grinder Users Group...

    Good one David with the nutate. I Find the trick is not to use any extra weight other than what the tamper weighs. This keeps things consistent. *;)

    Mal and David how are you guys finding grind consistency relative to volume of beans in the hopper?

    I find it does affect the grind however on the Kony-e it affects the dose more.

    Javabeen *

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    Re: Large Conical Grinder Users Group...

    Quote Originally Posted by 2C27302724232328460 link=1268471227/20#20 date=1269345857
    Mal and David how are you guys finding grind consistency relative to volume of beans in the hopper?

    I find it does affect the grind however on the Kony-e it affects the dose more.

    Javabeen *
    I had a laugh..... ::) Mine doesnt seem to be exactly the same :P

    On mine it definitely impacts on the grind, i.e. once the beans fall below about 25mm above the throat entry of the grinder itself, the grind seems to become gradually coarser. This results in pours becoming more and more rapid naturally enough....

    Havent noticed it affecting the Dose though. That always seems to be on the money except to say, that when the beans reach the level mentioned above, I top-up the Hopper again so maybe thats the trick....

    Mal.

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    Re: Large Conical Grinder Users Group...

    Mm - well!

    Went to a barista academy yesterday (lots of Mazzers - home territory). *I made some superb coffee there - oh my.
    Getting the grind right at home again. Making less aggressive adjustments
    Tamping, yes working with a light nutating tamp to start with.
    Watching the pour - up to the second colour change (bit streaky - bit panicky)

    Much improved cup today.
    High WApproval


    Observation: right grind, right pour rate, consistent tamping.

    I apologise for the obvious *but it is not a simple as it looks - until you do it right more than once (twice?)!


    Dumiya

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    Re: Large Conical Grinder Users Group...

    Hi

    An update.
    I decided to clean the Kony today.
    So took the hopper off and vacuumed the top, then from the dispensed down.
    With hopper on vacuumed from the dispenser with the machine running (no beans)

    Filled with fresh Elixir beans - It was the best coffee I ever made!

    Dumiya

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    Re: Large Conical Grinder Users Group...

    Good stuff David... :)

    Mal.

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    Senior Member javabeen's Avatar
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    Re: Large Conical Grinder Users Group...

    Hi David,

    Good work there mate.

    Ive cleaned mine out a few times and with no beans in the throat weighed the grinds in there at approximately 9g. So what I did was program the single dose button to dispense approx 9g. So if its been more than 10 mins since the last shot, I simply press the single dose button to clear out the stale grinds.

    Just a tip Id thought Id share.

    Javabeen just been roasting :D

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    Re: Large Conical Grinder Users Group...

    I find the screen as pictured in the doser cylinder is a real nuisance when trying to clean the Kony. *I would love to be able to vacuum clean the place where the grinds come out from the burrs *

    I am not sure of its purpose: *May be a deflector for the grinds or a safety device.

    A coffee place I went to recently had theres removed.

    Is this a modification I can consider

    Dumiya




  28. #28
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    Re: Large Conical Grinder Users Group...

    Should be some screws on the outside of the chamber to remove the guard.

  29. #29
    Senior Member javabeen's Avatar
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    Re: Large Conical Grinder Users Group...

    Its for safety but theres a grill covering the chute as you know. I took mine off when I got it but never need to access the chute except for the monthly clean I do.

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    Re: Large Conical Grinder Users Group...

    Well I have just placed a deposit with Chris for a Kony-e to upgrade from my mazzer mini. Now the wait for the shipment to arrive begins! I am like a kid in the back seat now. Hey Chris, are we there yet, are we there yet! ;D

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    Re: Large Conical Grinder Users Group...

    Quote Originally Posted by 272437372029450 link=1268471227/29#29 date=1272076454
    Now the wait for the shipment to arrive begins! *I am like a kid in the back seat now. *Hey Chris, are we there yet, are we there yet! *;D
    Know that feeling barrel.... ;D

    The wait is definitely worth it though, guarantee it... 8-)

    Mal.

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    Re: Large Conical Grinder Users Group...

    barrel

    Kony-e is so good. *So very good.

    Let us know when you get it and about you getting used to using it/her/him - not sure!

    dumiya

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    Re: Large Conical Grinder Users Group...

    barrel

    Just just over my excitement on hearing your news:


    It took me a while to get the Kony-e grind / dose/ *and the Giotto P in balance.
    But then I jumped from a Rocky.

    It has just come together for me. *Good fresh beans most important.

    You have jumped the ultimate upgrade step - There is really nothing better!

    dumiya


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    Re: Large Conical Grinder Users Group...

    Quote Originally Posted by 4D4E5D5D4A432F0 link=1268471227/29#29 date=1272076454
    Well I have just placed a deposit with Chris for a Kony-e to upgrade from my mazzer mini. *Now the wait for the shipment to arrive begins! *I am like a kid in the back seat now. *Hey Chris, are we there yet, are we there yet! *;D
    Oh the time is getting closer, I hope that pesky Volcano hasnt caused any delays though. :D

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    Re: Large Conical Grinder Users Group...

    Quote Originally Posted by 65667575626B070 link=1268471227/34#34 date=1274079684
    Quote Originally Posted by 4D4E5D5D4A432F0 link=1268471227/29#29 date=1272076454
    Well I have just placed a deposit with Chris for a Kony-e to upgrade from my mazzer mini. *Now the wait for the shipment to arrive begins! *I am like a kid in the back seat now. *Hey Chris, are we there yet, are we there yet! *;D
    Oh the time is getting closer, I hope that pesky Volcano hasnt caused any delays though. :D
    After grinding with a Skerton for the last couple of weeks since selling my mini I am super eager for my Kony-E to arrive too. My order was from early-ish April. Hopefully this is the week! No doubt Chris (and Dennis) are keen for the shipment to make it too. I have some MTE 205 roasted and ready to roll in anticipation.

    I must state that sponsor Talk Coffee has been excellent in communication with the unexpected delay that was out of their hands.

    Brett

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    Re: Large Conical Grinder Users Group...

    ETA to us is 21 May fellas....I am hoping we can ship this week...

    Im waiting on one to pair up with the faema as well *8-)

    Chris

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    Re: Large Conical Grinder Users Group...

    I want your job Chris......so badly it hurts ;D

  38. #38
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    Re: Large Conical Grinder Users Group...

    Brett & Barrel I can feel your excitement...the wait is going to be so worth it. Think shot after shot of consistent wonderful rich espresso.

  39. #39
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    Re: Large Conical Grinder Users Group...

    It was mentioned in this thread how different variables can affect the grind and clumping. Today I want to mention an observation I made about how the roast method affects the grind.

    Chris (and me sort of) roasted some Brazil (Daterra?) in Chriss Gene Cafe last Saturday at the Talk Coffee shed. I got stuck into it on Saturday and I had to back off the grind (coarser) on the Kony-e about 5 notches from where I normally have it set. This is for an 18g dose which Id settled on. Even at 17g (my normal dose) I was still way back from where I normally have the Kony-e set.

    Now I know a different bean variety can affect the grind setting, but by this much, and for a dark roast? I usually have to grind finer for a dark roast, not coarser!.

    Clumping was a lot less as well, in fact the grind was visibly fluffier than roasts from the Corretto. The roast was quite dark, neither Chris or myself paid much attention to the roast. Chris was merely trying to demonstrate how good a roast you can get from the Gene Cafe with minimal fuss.

    Anyway, this post is just to point out what a difference the roast method made to the grind. And the shots were magnificent, even if the roast was a little dark. Sweet, lots of body, and consistent from shot to shot.

    I did another roast in the Gene Cafe at the Talk Coffee Shed on Saturday that Im going to compare to the roast I did of the same bean in the Corretto the night before. The Gene roast is a little darker, but both at about the same total roast time.
    Ill post back about my grind grind observations when Ive given them both a week to rest. Of all the roasts Ive done in the Corretto of this bean, I havent had to make major grind adjustments like I did for the Brazil. While this wont be conclusive in any way, it will make interesting reading.

    Javabeen.

  40. #40
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    Re: Large Conical Grinder Users Group...

    Yep....

    Ive noticed the same thing over the years too, not just with the Kony though. Different beans, different roast profiles, slightly older beans, very fresh beans..... All these things and more can affect the grind setting quite a bit. Can be a bit of a pain if you have several small batches of Single Origins that you pull shots from throughout the day.... ;) The coffees worth it though 8-)

    Mal.

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    Re: Large Conical Grinder Users Group...

    Quote Originally Posted by 5F5443545750505B350 link=1268471227/39#39 date=1274098338
    about 5 notches to where I normally have it set.
    My experience is that this is the norm with the bean you are using. Now that you know you dont have to waste any beans dialing it back in after that Sumatran :).

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    Re: Large Conical Grinder Users Group...

    Hi
    First: *The Kony-e is a treasure. *It is impossible not smile every time I see it and use it. *It is a work of art as well! *It *gives me feeling of belonging.

    Second: I would really like to remove the anti-static mesh at the end of the grind mechanism shute that holds back the grinds. *It seems to me that with out this mesh the fresh grounds would go straight into the hopper/doser and and more to the point straight into my PF - and into the cup (Very HWA). *I would have totally fresh grinds everytime. *The mesh does not seem to have any safety purpose - except for a curious mouse! *
    I notice that at my favourite Coffee shop the mesh has been removed and their fresh grinds flow so freely into the PF. I also notice when a do a through vacuum clean the first grinds come out like the coffee shops.

    Third: I may be missing the obvious so any comments would be gratefully received as I really dont want to do anything that would not be good for kony-e

    dumiya
    * * * * *

  43. #43
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    Re: Large Conical Grinder Users Group...

    Quote Originally Posted by 3021393D2D35540 link=1268471227/42#42 date=1274145927
    I may be missing the obvious so any comments would be gratefully received as I really dont want to do anything that would not be good for kony-e
    Gday David.... :)

    In my honest opinion, I dont believe that the so-called Anti-Static Screen is all that effective at performing its nominated task so maybe its intended more as a safety screen to prevent errant fingers poking around where they dont belong..... ::)

    Removing it wouldnt be a big deal but I would contact Chris before doing so, since the grinder is still under warranty. I suspect though, that removing/replacing the funnel every time you need to give the Kony a thorough clean, will do more damage over time than the simple removal of the screen. I cant imagine that Chris would have too much of a problem with its removal.

    Cheers,
    Mal.

  44. #44
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    Kony-E feeding frenzy!!

    On Tuesday morning, 15 x Kony-E arrived at one importer in Melbourne (3 months stock)

    This morning, all 15 were gone and there will be no more until late June at best with either importer...

    I reckon this grinder is the top end home grinder flavour of the month...and with good reason! *8-)

    Chris

  45. #45
    Senior Member Koffee_Kosmo's Avatar
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    Re: Large Conical Grinder Users Group...

    Quote Originally Posted by 6154595E6A765A53535050350 link=1268471227/44#44 date=1274957703
    On Tuesday morning, 15 x Kony-E arrived in Melbourne (3 months stock)

    This morning, all 15 were gone and there will be no more until late June at best with either importer...

    I reckon this grinder is the top end home grinder flavour of the month...and with good reason! *8-)

    Chris
    The Mazzer Kony - E is a nice grinder

    Congrats to the people that have secured one

    KK

  46. #46
    Senior Member
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    Re: Large Conical Grinder Users Group...

    Quote Originally Posted by 6B5E5354607C5059595A5A3F0 link=1268471227/46#46 date=1274960549
    I should elaborate there: only 4 went to CSers via us, but I did finally get a black one to match the Faema! *8-)

    I wonder where the other 10 have ended up?
    Excellent! I am on of the lucky ones and look forward to picking it up from Talk Coffee agent Cuppacoffee next week. Black mightnt match my Expobar, but maybe that will give an excuse for a machine upgrade down the track.

  47. #47
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    Re: Large Conical Grinder Users Group...

    Quote Originally Posted by 0C0009090A0A0C070E1C0A1D4F0 link=1268471227/47#47 date=1274964170
    Black mightnt match my Expobar, but maybe that will give an excuse for a machine upgrade down the track.
    Im betting that you will really like the look of the "Stealth" unit mate...... Looks great in combo with the polished alloy top section 8-)

    Congratulations by the way.... [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

    Mal.

  48. #48
    Senior Member
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    Re: Large Conical Grinder Users Group...

    Chris your customer service knows no bounds. (Chris battled hard to secure me one when it looked like I might miss out) No more sleep until Saturday now.

    Coffee, must drink more Coffee :D

  49. #49
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    Re: Large Conical Grinder Users Group...

    Congrats to you too "barrel"..... 8-)

    Mal.

  50. #50
    Sleep is overrated Thundergod's Avatar
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    Re: Large Conical Grinder Users Group...

    Quote Originally Posted by 212D24242727212A23312730620 link=1268471227/47#47 date=1274964170
    Excellent! I am on of the lucky ones and look forward to picking it up from Talk Coffee agent Cuppacoffee next week.
    Let me know when you intend to pick it up and I might be able to get there to take pictures.

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