I did some more adjustments and it seems you can move it and adjust with the expected behaviour. However I took the grind cartridge off, cleaned it, and put it back on - and the settings had completely changed (grinding sand again). I was baffled, as the upper burr in the grind cartridge can't have moved. My suggestion to Sunbeam would be to have made the cartridge from metal, not plastic.
Originally Posted by coffeenoobz
I can't test it in store for the noise without approximating the same grind setting which is impossible without coffee. Maybe I should, as TampIt suggested, just return it. Which is a shame because the improved grind flow and reduced noise/mess are nice.
The hopper arm is usually impossible to close fully with beans in the hopper. I Much preferred the spring loaded one on the previous gen hoppers.
Are you able to confirm that running completely empty with no beans, maybe 4-5 notches lower than your espresso grind setting, absolutely no chafing noises?
Originally Posted by coffeenoobz
I'm hesitant to like your posts in case Sunbeam see it as praise. Can you provide a couple of photos so I can get what you are talking about? As you know I was interested in getting one of these, but now I'm thinking that Vario TampIt's talking about is worth saving for...
I'd try SB help line - they will ask you to run it so they can hear it but maybe they can also tell you what is wrong - maybe a part got left off yours? And at least, when you take it back, you can say you talked to SB and it is still stuffed.
New equipment should NOT be such a hassle to get working, even if us Classical types LIKE working on things...
re: the hopper arm - I have the spring loaded versions and when removing the hopper I just turn the machine upside down and shake, then remove it. Get lots less beans sitting in the grind area then and make less mess.
What did you want photos of? I have a photo of the dismantled burr assembly. But I'm at work now. The lower burr appears identical to previous gens. I might even try the one from my EM0480 and see if the noise goes away.
Pros (over the EM0480):
Originally Posted by cafe99
Much nicer and consistent grinding into the basket.
Love the cradle.
Looks nice paired with an EM7000.
Motor is much quieter, but you will quickly discover the noise from the actually beans being ground is much loud than the motor.
In one sense, easier to access the entire lower burr and sweeping arms and vacuum it out. But the EM0480 you could literally attach your vacuum to the spout and suck it out the other end.
The recalibration is nice, when it works.
More grounds remain in the grinding area (the ones you used to dislodge with tapping the top).
"Grind only what you need" seems to be more difficult, and greatly varies the grind setting. It really does prefer the hopper at least 1/4-1/2 full.
These first two mean significantly more bean wastage. Maybe 4-5g between sessions just grinding out the old stuff.
Burrs contacting even at espresso grind setting (may be just bad luck on my part).
What I will try when I get home is go around the edge of the lower burr with a marker. I'll then run it empty, then examine the lower burr to see where the marker was scraped off. It's possible just one part of the burr is slightly out of alignment, less than perfect circle. It is not a constant grating sound but approximately at the same speed of the rotation. Either way it's going back tomorrow, just not sure if for a refund or an exchange.
Mostly it was the terms you used - grinding cartridge - sounds like you're talking about something other than the casing which surrounds the lower burr in the 480.
And also puzzling was how the re-calibrating is done - it sounds like a process you don't do on the 480. With the 450/480 you have to change the setting to remove the top, but I don't recall ever having to go through a re-setup to get my grind back on track - just note where it was when i turn the top around to remove it, the turn it back to the same number when I reassemble and bob's a relative.
The cartridge is the upper burr housing which includes the calibration collar. If you lift the collar up, it's basically a cog (with a continuous movement, probably overall at least 2-3x the total range of the previous models from well above to a position where you could probably wreck the teeth of the burrs or damage the motor if you wanted to). The collar (with the settings dial) sits on top of this cog (to move it) and you can move it to any position on top of the cog you want. Sort of like when you are using a spanner and you lift the spanner off the bolt and put it back in the original position so you can loosen or tighten it some more. You can then just move the collar to another position and lock it down, which means if you move it from a 25 to a 15 position, the upper burr will be at the same depth on 15 as it previously as at 25. My main concern is that this upper collar just has too much vertical give - obviously when grinding, it will push it upwards to a limit. But when empty, it goes down (contacting the burrs). I guess in use it will always be in the upper position, but then after putting beans in and pushing the lid down, it goes down. All I know is it wasn't a problem in the previous ones because the give would have been confined to the inner upper burr "basket" and not moved when you did other things.
I don't know what happened when I cleaned it and the settings went off - because it shouldn't have affected at all the vertical upper burr movement. But maybe it's repositioned the overall cartridge in some way that changed the effecive burr height. If this is the case, it's not a good thing. It needs to be kept in mind that a setting between espresso and french press sand is probably less than 1mm between the burrs, so even having this much variance when locking the upper part onto the base could throw the grind setting out massively.
Could it be something similar to the issue in my 480 where (because I had no white arrows) my upper burr was put in backwards (flat spot to the front instead of back) and I had trouble getting good grinds? i.e. the upper assembly looks like it can either way but really needs to only go a specific orientation?
You can't remove the upper burr from the cartridge and the cartridge is keyed and only goes in one orientation. More likely some variation when it locks into the base on height. This cartridge, since it contains the upper burr and affects how it sits near the lower burr, should NOT have the give it has. I shouldn't be able to rock slightly it by moving the hopper for example. When actually grinding coffee, I think it pushes it out to a fairly set position, but I still don't think it should be allowing this much give.
That 'give' would be something you can try at the shop. If the new one doesn't move and yours does, instant 'faulty' demonstration. And couldn't you plug yours in and demo the sound you get when you try to set the burrs?
Out of the box I couldn't adjust it to finest without moving the recalibration collar. Because the adjustment is much more varied it would be hard to set it at a comparable level to test.
So, new machine tomorrow or will you try SB first?
Hi Darkfalz (mostly)
I have two 480's and have set up at least another ten for friends / rellies. The only issue I found was that adding the silicone thing at the end of the spout actually gave me problems on all of the ones I tried until I gave it up as a bad joke.
When a 480 is correctly calibrated it does not throw sideways, clump, or do any of the other evils listed when you go direct into the p/f (very oily roasts excepted: superglue in your coffee sir?). You do get a little "grind bounce" on the bench unless you hold the p/f high enough on the p/f switch (at least it has one, Vario take note). The 480 retains more grinds than I like (now a bit spoilt I guess), however as a "cheap conical" it is still a pretty good unit. More or less a cheaper version of the big industrial ones like my RR45 without the huge wastage factor. FYI, I just put 200+ grams of plunger grind through one of my 480's yesterday (iced coffee time for the Xmas hordes), and a 2.25 litre softdrink bottle of caffeinated dynamite has less than a cm of "mud" after a day. Considering the bottle has legs, that is even less than a flat base would suggest. Not enough mud to be worth decanting to another bottle to get rid of it. Impressive, especially considering teh grinds still came out cool. Espresso is a similar good particle spread.
The one 700 I tried did not give as good a spread as the 480, however it may be a lottery to get one that works (reminds me of the early 6900's: appalling variation from one to next).
The 700 seems to be a weird & flawed design as the prob DF had is the same as the dead/dying ones I saw at the repairers the other day. One of them had even damaged its own burrs quite extensively at a "normal setting". There is a saying in the IT industry "never buy version one of anything". Seems to apply here (even my first Vario is not as good as the second "gen2" one). FWIW, I would calibrate your 480 properly and save your sheckels for a serious upgrade. YMMV, and that is as it should be.
Anyway DF, please let me know how you get on.
Last edited by TampIt; 22nd December 2013 at 09:00 PM.
I'm going to return it. Incidentally I took my EM0480 apart to borrow some shims. It had 6 of them. I have put it back together, hope it works same as before.
It's a good design in many ways, but flawed in others. Particularly the flex of the upper cartridge and the hopper slide. Maybe we'll have to wait for the EM0710 or EM0750 or whatever it is (or the revision without a model number change) for an improved Sunbeam grinder to match our espresso machines.
Hi again Darkfalz
Originally Posted by Darkfalz
Journeyman is a guru for sorting out 480's, if you have any hassles read his http://coffeesnobs.com.au/brewing-eq...w-machine.html thread (over 200 posts now, however the first few are all 480 stuff, plus a few scattered through the rest). He picked up more battle scars with his 480 than anyone else I know.
The basic reason for shimming the 480 is to set the burr clearance. The other critical thing is to remove end play and side to side slop so it gives you the best particle size spread: you can then calibrate it accurately. Strangely enough it then works really well.
Can confirm the burrs are identical between units. The left/right play on the EM0700 occurs only on the calibration collar, not in in the underlying mechanism. It's the vertical play that's a worry - however, the EM0480 has some play too. It's all in the basket within the collar though so it's not affected by touching the hopper or the collar. This is not so on the EM0700 as the upper piece is all one connected unit. However, on both units, the play is gone as soon as you actually grind coffee as it will "lock" into a position that forces the upper and lower burr apart as much as possible. It's only really an issue on empty - which could mean I'm essentially worrying about something which occurs only when not using the grinder as it's actually intended for.
Also, it turns out my EM0480 burrs do contact on finer grind settings. It's harder to hear, one because of the much louder motor, and two because there is more metal and plastic between the burrs and the outside. It's there though, I could pick it up when turning it off because the motor noise shuts off before the burr stops turning. It's perhaps not as much contact as I'm getting on the EM0700 but it's there and at similar fineness levels.
So I think I'll exchange it and see if the new one is improved. If it's the same, I guess I'll try it for a bit longer and see how it goes.
Originally Posted by Darkfalz
"Also, it turns out my EM0480 burrs do contact on finer grind settings." When I calibrated my 480, I took out all the side & end play (bar the minimum play needed to get it to run smoothly). The semi-stepless dial goes down to around 0.4. The burrs do not touch at that setting (nor should they). BTW, that is the main way you calibrate any grinder: no touching allowed on the dial! Recently I have used my 480 as fine as 7.5 (set normally 8 to 10 for VST doubles, 12 / 13 for standard SB or La Pav baskets) with no touching.
How to tell: Any touching has to leave a trace across the top of the burrs. That is the only bit that does not have a mark in my normal 480! Actual use finer than 7.5, I know not (by 7.5 the fines are starting to increase exponentially, so that is the practical limit of my 480 anyway). It is still capable of grinding a lot finer than the usual espresso range (11 to 16).
Hope this helps
Returned it rather than exchanged it as they had no more stock.
I really did like the way the coffee came out. It was like it was already de-clumped with WST method or similar, ground into a perfect mound in the middle of the basket. Made it extremely easy to dose. The spent pucks were perfect. The difference when I went back to EM0480 today with the dosing was very obvious. The burrs are the same, so the actual grind is virtually identical - but it was so much less work in collapsing and evening out the dose prior to tamping on the EM0700.
I will most likely pick it up again next time it's on sale for around the $200 mark, maybe post Christmas. When I think about the burrs contacting issue on empty, I think I was probably worrying about nothing although I did want to see if a different batch was less obvious.
So the thoughtful wife has seen me perusing grinders and brought home an EMO 700 ()
I've never owned an electric grinder before, and having some issues dialling it in. They recommend a setting of between 7 and 15 for espresso. I'm using an ECM Giotto. I started with a 200g bag of Lavazza rubbish just to play with the grind and run it in a bit. I started at 8, choked. 12, choked. So here's my progression which pretty much chewed through my 200g:
8 - choked
12 - choked
18 - a few drips
22 - half a shot
25 - just right (volume)
25 again - too watery, too much volume
20 - too much
15 - too much
10 - too much
8 - just right.
Very weird. Do grinders fluctuate when new?
So then I moved onto the good beans. At the same setting of 8, it choked! What the? Then again I went through 8, 12, 15, 20, then 22 was too much. I just wanted a coffee now so went mack to my Hario Skerton and it was perfect. What's going on here? Because I'm going these in quick succession, I assume my tamping is fairly consistent as is the dose. I'm not weighing the dose, but going by how much the tamper protrudes from the basket - the same amount as when I pull a good shot after a Hario grind. I can understand needing different grind settings for different beans, but don't fancy burning 200g of beans every time I change brands. Please guide me
PS I will say, after about 300g of beans, there's not a single grain of coffee on the bench or the tray below. It's very clean. Loving that. In fact it's very quiet, a tiny footprint on the counter, the illumination is nice, the auto switch is really neat, I'm really hoping I can get it to work consistently.
Originally Posted by Arcade
Sounds like the burrs are not located properly. See page 12 of the manual "Cleaning the burrs".
The only gotcha: the "grind cartridge" (SB speak) or top burr carrier may be able to go in two ways (it does on the 480's, however the 700 is a different design there). For long term use it is essential you maintain the same orientation as no machine at that level will wear symmetrically, ensure you replace it "as you found it".
When you replace the "grind cartridge", ensure you press it down firmly to locate it properly.
If that doesn't fix it, you have a dud.
Hope this helps
Awesome, thanks for that, I'll give it a go.
edit: All clean, was about to give it a go but thought I'd just run it with no beans to do a final clean-out. I notice that I can hear the burrs chaffing at 17. Urgh. So I'm getting chaffing and inconsistent grindage just like Darkfalz! Hmmmmmmm…………………...
Last edited by Arcade; 6th January 2014 at 08:21 PM.
Just an update for anyone interested. I phoned Sunbeam today for some advice on improving consistency and avoiding the chaffing. The vague and brief answer was to re-calibrate the collar. I argued that since I wasn't hitting one extreme or the other that this would simply give me a different number on the dial, rather than different result. Still I relented and said I'd try it. Another trip to the shops for some god-awful beans, recalibrated coarser (so 15=10 now). I found that at #9 I got a decent shot. The chaffing was happening at #8 so this I could live with. I then tried to replicate the shot and with the same beans, dose and tamp, I got about 15ml more volume out of the same timed shot. Urgh. I tried a few more times and again the result was far far too variable to be usable.
So the machine goes back tomorrow.
I also popped into Di Bartoli today where I bought a lot of my accessories. I had a great chat to one of the guys there, and we looked at the Rocky, K3, Vario and Mazzer. I was less apprehensive about going with a doser model after our chat, but think I'm steering toward the Vario. The grinds were super smooth, ease of adjustment looks great, timed doses is probably something that will help with consistency, it was fairly quiet, nice. The Rocky also seemed good at $200 less, so just having a think now.
Found the same thing. Chafing was at a setting which was either the correct or one below the correct grind setting. I really liked how the coffee came out, but shame about some of the other design choices.
I believe the other grinds chafe, but not as much or at the same settings because there is more vertical give (thanks to the entire hopper/cartridge assembly) in this unit.
I never bothered to call Sunbeam, because people on the other end just read from script and may or may not have ever seen the products they are proving support for.
DJs were great, took the machine back no questions, full refund. I've just ordered the Vario from DiBartoli. Exceptional service, I explained what machine I'm using and they are going to set it up in-store on their Giotto so that when it arrives, it will need minimal fettling. Now that's good service. Also throwing in some beans, looks like I'm all set. Now….what's this home roasting business all about!!!!??!?!?
Spacers? Dot tell...
Originally Posted by Darkfalz
Old thread but I just purchased my Sunbeam EM0700 3 days ago. Perfection in every way (grind, noise, look) but after about 7 coffees (double shot) it now sprays coffee grounds everywhere. I suspect it simply needs a clean but was interested in peoples experience with this grinder. Bought it to go with EM7000 which is now (after purchasing the grinder) making really good coffees.