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Thread: New Breville BCG820 "Smart Grinder Pro"

  1. #201
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    Hello everyone.

    The Smart Grinder Pro is advertised on the Breville site to..:

    "automatically adjust the dose whenever you change the grind"
    .

    My interpretation from this statement is that changing the "grind" would refer to incremental changes made to grind size. Which would imply that the dose seconds should change proportionally to the grind size. ie, when i rotate the grind size knob the dose should automatically change.

    This doesn't happen at all on my machine.

    My only indication of this feature even existing on the unit is the "program" function. Where you program a certain dose for the entire "espresso range" of grind, and then the entire "percolator range" of grind..etc. When you turn the grind knob enough so that the grind size lapses into the new range, the dose adjusts to the amount that you specified in the program.

    Am I missing something, or is this all it is?
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  2. #202
    Senior Member level3ninja's Avatar
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    That's all it is

  3. #203
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    Evening everyone.
    Accidently managed to remove the bottom burr from my breville smartgrinder pro and am unable to secure it back in place - it seems to sit too high.
    Anyone have any experience and tips on reinserting the bottom burr after removal?

    Cheers, Julian
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  4. #204
    Senior Member level3ninja's Avatar
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    I'm going from memory here, but I think there is a specific orientation that it has to sit in in relation to the shaft, like a flat side or a bump that sticks up from below that goes into a hole in the burr. Also it's a left-hand thread, so lefty-tighty, rights-to-a-person.
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  5. #205
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    Yeah there is indeed a flat side but i can't seem to push the driveshaft deep enough for it to sit below the top burr.I think this has something to do with the screw thread at the bottom of the driveshaft which seems to rotate around but not bite on anything at the bottom of the driveshaft shaft
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  6. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by jsunario View Post
    ... Accidentally managed to remove the bottom burr from my breville smartgrinder pro and am unable to secure it back in place - it seems to sit too high.

    Anyone have any experience and tips on reinserting the bottom burr after removal?
    Without wanting to sound silly, but did you line up the pins with the holes in the underside of the burr?

  7. #207
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    Yes - all lined up, D (flat side of shaft) lined up still no cigar , perhaps its my caffeine deficiency?

  8. #208
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    I had a problem with mine today.

    My normal settings is usually

    17.8 sec
    14 grind size

    with this setting and local beans, i get 20g of grind coffee. However, this morning, the grind was clumpy and very fine for some reason and I can only get 11g out. I took the grinder apart and clean the top and bottom burrs. This did not fix the problem at all.

    I had to change my settings to

    22.8 sec
    28 grind size

    This seems to work now with the same beans. Has anyone experience this at all? I buy freshly roasted bean from my local roaster for the last 3 months.
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  9. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by trungie View Post
    I had a problem with mine today.

    My normal settings is usually

    17.8 sec
    14 grind size

    with this setting and local beans, i get 20g of grind coffee. However, this morning, the grind was clumpy and very fine for some reason and I can only get 11g out. I took the grinder apart and clean the top and bottom burrs. This did not fix the problem at all.

    I had to change my settings to

    22.8 sec
    28 grind size

    This seems to work now with the same beans. Has anyone experience this at all? I buy freshly roasted bean from my local roaster for the last 3 months.
    That's strange. I would recommend to check again top burr alignment and if it is fully rotated to the red dot. If the top burr adjusting is on same number as before (1-6) Another tip could be that you have clogged way below burrs. Everytime I am cleaning I use hoover to clean way below burrs. Just put hoover perpendicularly onto bottom burr and try if air goes easily through the gringer. And then change the direction by moving hover to portafilter handle and try to do same and check if air is flowing in through bottom burr.
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  10. #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by dandu View Post
    That's strange. I would recommend to check again top burr alignment and if it is fully rotated to the red dot. If the top burr adjusting is on same number as before (1-6) Another tip could be that you have clogged way below burrs. Everytime I am cleaning I use hoover to clean way below burrs. Just put hoover perpendicularly onto bottom burr and try if air goes easily through the gringer. And then change the direction by moving hover to portafilter handle and try to do same and check if air is flowing in through bottom burr.
    I cleaned everything and made sure the top burr clicked in, however, it's still doing the same thing. The top burr is currently set to 5.

    I'm now using the new settings.

    23 sec
    28 grind size

    This is getting me 18g and the shot is consistent again. If anything happens again, I will call up Breville and get someone to have a look at it.
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  11. #211
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    Quote Originally Posted by trungie View Post
    I had a problem with mine today.

    My normal settings is usually

    17.8 sec
    14 grind size

    with this setting and local beans, i get 20g of grind coffee. However, this morning, the grind was clumpy and very fine for some reason and I can only get 11g out. I took the grinder apart and clean the top and bottom burrs. This did not fix the problem at all.

    I had to change my settings to

    22.8 sec
    28 grind size

    This seems to work now with the same beans. Has anyone experience this at all? I buy freshly roasted bean from my local roaster for the last 3 months.
    This is really weird - I came here, having not visited for quite a while, to post this exact same issue, which based on the time of your post happened at exactly the same time!

    In my case - at a particular grind setting (5), properly aged beans from the same supplier, my grinder has gone from taking about 21 seconds for a double shot basket to approximately 35 (!) seconds to produce the same amount of ground coffee. The strange thing is that once you run it for that long, the shot pours just the same.

    The motor sort of sounds like it's spinning faster, like it's not having to work as hard. It's like the beans aren't actually getting down into the burrs at the same speed they used to, if that makes sense, so it's grinding the same as ever but just not being fed fast enough from the hopper.

    Very strange - and this was without anything changing, i.e. not after I pulled it apart or changed to a different supplier of beans or anything like that. I've also had the problem now with three different blends from my usual place, same problem each time.

    Since then I have disassembled it to the extent that you can disassemble it, cleaned it thoroughly, emptied the hopper, checked for obstructions, and tried again - no improvement.

    Should the lower burr rotate just from being manually pushed? I.e., when you pull the thing apart, should it move freely or is it locked in place? Mine doesn't move.
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  12. #212
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    Quote Originally Posted by jooi312 View Post
    Update from my previous post, just got my grinder back today. I'm not too sure what they did but it seems to have worked! Getting nice shots now with the inner burr set at '5' and the LCD set around 8
    I would love to know what they did. I'm having the same issue with my grinder at the moment. It was purchased in December 2015 (I highly doubt I have the receipt), I've recently moved on to a Hx machine and actually started getting some use out of the grinder, but at 1 on the top burr and 1 on the dial I'm getting 18-20 second shots even when over dosing and tamping mighty hard
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  13. #213
    Junior Member bgd57's Avatar
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    Hi all. I just purchased the Breville BCG 820 coffee grinder from Harvey Norman for $249. The default settings are, grind time = 17.8 sec, shots = 2, grind size = 12. Using these settings the grind was extremely fine. I was not able to extract any coffee, my machine choked. I have a Breville BES 860. The beans are self roasted, 5 days old, so they are fresh. Just to get my machine to extract I have had to adjust the settings to grind time = 14 sec, shots = 2, grind size = 24. Is this normal, by the way the top burr is set to factory setting of 6. Just received a call from Crema Coffee Garage, my new machine has arrived (ECM Classica PID). Very excited. All these settings will have to change now anyway, but your thoughts would still be appreciated. Thanks.

  14. #214
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    Quote Originally Posted by bgd57 View Post
    Just to get my machine to extract I have had to adjust the settings to grind time = 14 sec, shots = 2, grind size = 24. Is this normal, by the way the top burr is set to factory setting of 6.
    Grind time is a fairly poor indicator of anything, you should try and grind by weight. That way you can keep the weight constant and vary the grind size to get the extraction you're after.

    Interesting that you choke up at 6 on the top burr (this seems to be normal!) and I can't manage it at 1 on mine.
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  15. #215
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quant View Post
    .


    Interesting that you choke up at 6 on the top burr (this seems to be normal!) and I can't manage it at 1 on mine.
    I had mine replaced under warranty for this problem. Might pay to contact Breville. You can only ask.

    My 2nd one is much better although I have gone to 5 on the top burr.
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  16. #216
    Junior Member bgd57's Avatar
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    Picked up my new espresso machine (ECM Classika PID) earlier today and tried the default settings on the BCG820 grinder (12 grind size) and again it was way too fine (like talcum powder). The Classika would not pull it through either. I can get 22 grind size to extract OK, might be able to get it down to 20 or 18, but I think that will be it.
    Last edited by bgd57; 20th September 2017 at 11:56 PM. Reason: incorrect spelling

  17. #217
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    disregard the numbers. just grind to suit your machine. if you really want the grind numbers to read lower, just adjust the top burr to 7.

  18. #218
    Junior Member bgd57's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by prydey View Post
    disregard the numbers. just grind to suit your machine. if you really want the grind numbers to read lower, just adjust the top burr to 7.
    Thanks for the help prydey. You are right of course, numbers don't mean much, they are just a guide. I will keep playing around until I get it just the way I like it.

  19. #219
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    Quote Originally Posted by bgd57 View Post
    Thanks for the help prydey. You are right of course, numbers don't mean much, they are just a guide. I will keep playing around until I get it just the way I like it.
    That's the right way to do it

    Once again I recommend getting some scales (they're cheap!) and weighing your grind and shots for a short while, you dont have to do it every time once the grind is dialed in, but I found it helpful! If you dose ~16-18g (depending on your basket) and then extract 35-40g of espresso (Should be about 60ml total volume) I've found that to be a good starting point! I also time it to make sure it's taking 25-30s, obviously none of this is gospel and you're free to experiment outside those rough bounds, but it makes for a good starting point
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  20. #220
    Junior Member bgd57's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quant View Post
    That's the right way to do it

    Once again I recommend getting some scales (they're cheap!) and weighing your grind and shots for a short while, you don't have to do it every time once the grind is dialed in, but I found it helpful! If you dose ~16-18g (depending on your basket) and then extract 35-40g of espresso (Should be about 60ml total volume) I've found that to be a good starting point! I also time it to make sure it's taking 25-30s, obviously none of this is gospel and you're free to experiment outside those rough bounds, but it makes for a good starting point

    Yes, I have scales. Scales are good to dial in grind size and shots and a timer, which is one of the features of the P.I.D on the Classika. Just getting it all synchronised is the goal.

    Brad

  21. #221
    Junior Member bgd57's Avatar
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    Well the Breville BCG820 didn't last long. On the 10th day (today), I was grinding up a brew, when bang, a loud, knocking noise, followed by a high pitched squeal as the burrs where not meshing. Pulled the thing apart and cleaned everything. Kind of got it working, but with a crunching noise. I then rang Breville Customer care and the guy was very helpful and said take it back to where I bought it from and get a new one. So of to Harvey Norman and got a new one. Here is hoping this one will last longer than 10 days.

  22. #222
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    After one years daily use i have been happy with the Breville bcg820; my primary grinder a Compak k6 silenzio. they are paired to a Faema Carisma S1. I use the bcg820 as single doser and would like comments on being used as such. I would point out if using the bcg820 with a loaded hopper ie beans costantly between the burrs,DO NOT TIGHTEN the grind without running the grinder, as it is detrimental to the adjustment mechanism and motor on a light appliance such as the bcg820...
    Cafelazio.
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  23. #223
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    How do folks see these comparing with a Rocky? I'm guessing you lose some in grind quality/consistency but gain some in functionality. Would that be a fair statement? If so, how much do you lose in grind quality? Is it worth it for the functionality?

  24. #224
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    Quote Originally Posted by redrich2000 View Post
    How do folks see these comparing with a Rocky? I'm guessing you lose some in grind quality/consistency but gain some in functionality. Would that be a fair statement? If so, how much do you lose in grind quality? Is it worth it for the functionality?
    I previously owned a Rocky and have used a Smart Grinder a handful of times. I found the Rocky to be superior in nearly every way. Grind was much better, build quality far superior (built like a tank), speed probably not a huge difference but never timed it, retention probably about the same (again not tested).

    You don't get the flashy electronic changing of grind settings and a few other bits n bobs but I think these are more prone to failure than the manual counterparts anyway.

    The Smart Grinder is cheaper, but the Rocky will last and last with a better grind quality.
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    Hmmm, these are on sale again through eBay (20% off selected stores), tossing up whether I should upgrade my EM04080 or save a bit longer and get a Rocky? Currently using an EM6910 that I will be using for the foreseeable future.

  26. #226
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    Quote Originally Posted by miicah View Post
    Hmmm, these are on sale again through eBay (20% off selected stores), tossing up whether I should upgrade my EM04080 or save a bit longer and get a Rocky? Currently using an EM6910 that I will be using for the foreseeable future.
    If you care more about convenience of a timer get the Breville, if you care about the quality of the coffee you'll get out of it save for a Rocky or Mahlkonig Vario

  27. #227
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    Hello guys !
    I am new at the coffee machines , etc but i can say that i am a big coffee lover :-)
    I have now for few months a Breville barista express that got the attached grinder on top !
    Except the external adjustment for fine and coarse cut , there is the internal adjustment too that i think goes from 1 - 9 !
    Now is at the 6 as stock !
    What is the difference between those 2 adjustments , the external and internal ?

    Thank you very much !!!

  28. #228
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    I have just upgraded from the Sunbeam E0480. With the Sunbeam, I used to grind into a small plastic container on a scale until I got 17g for my 17g VST basket.

    With the Breville, one feature which appealed to me was the Dosing iQ system. However, I'm disappointed to learn that this doesn't work when making small grind adjustments in the espresso range - it only changes the time when changing number of shots or style of coffee. Given this, I was wondering if anyone has a rule of thumb they follow to make adjustments to the time when also making adjustments to the grind within the espresso range. Through my limited experimentation, I make a 0.2-0.4 second increase in grind duration for every 1 unit decrease in grind. However, I find myself still checking it by weight everytime on a set of scales to ensure I've got 17 g. I'd prefer to move to the convenience of grinding straight into the portafilter.

    On another note, I am liking the Breville more than the Sunbeam - it's easier to keep clean. However, I find the Breville sounds less grunty and not as 'satisfying' as the Sunbeam. Sometimes the Breville sounds like it struggles over individual beans and I wonder whether this makes the grind less consistent?

    Thomas.

  29. #229
    Junior Member bgd57's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by parktho View Post
    I have just upgraded from the Sunbeam E0480. With the Sunbeam, I used to grind into a small plastic container on a scale until I got 17g for my 17g VST basket.

    With the Breville, one feature which appealed to me was the Dosing iQ system. However, I'm disappointed to learn that this doesn't work when making small grind adjustments in the espresso range - it only changes the time when changing number of shots or style of coffee. Given this, I was wondering if anyone has a rule of thumb they follow to make adjustments to the time when also making adjustments to the grind within the espresso range. Through my limited experimentation, I make a 0.2-0.4 second increase in grind duration for every 1 unit decrease in grind. However, I find myself still checking it by weight everytime on a set of scales to ensure I've got 17 g. I'd prefer to move to the convenience of grinding straight into the portafilter.

    On another note, I am liking the Breville more than the Sunbeam - it's easier to keep clean. However, I find the Breville sounds less grunty and not as 'satisfying' as the Sunbeam. Sometimes the Breville sounds like it struggles over individual beans and I wonder whether this makes the grind less consistent?

    Thomas.
    Hi Thomas,
    Easiest way to get an exact weight of grinds, is just weigh your portafilter whilst empty, then grind straight into the portafilter. You are pretty much on the money with 0.2 - 0.4 sec increase per 1 notch finer grind. This all varies with each bean type and roast profile, so you will continually have to adjust to suit. I try for 18g with 18 sec time setting and 12 grind setting. Hope this helps.
    Brad

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    I'm still playing around with this, and I haven't yet been able to block my Sunbeam 6910. Admittedly, I'm using supermarket beans while I muck around and they normally require a finer grind to do so. Nevertheless, I got my old E0480 out and did it in parallel. 17 g into a VST basket by weight from both grinders. Finest grind on E0480 didn't block it but slowed it down to drips. Finest grind on the Breville (both at 1 on the digital screen and 1 on the upper burr). I'm a bit disappointed as I don't believe there is another way to further reduce the grind - i.e. shims. I also feel that the Breville adjusts at much smaller increments - meaning that winding it doesn't have as much range of movement as the Sunbeam if you want to do very coarse grinds for filter, plunger, etc...

  31. #231
    Junior Member bgd57's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by parktho View Post
    I'm still playing around with this, and I haven't yet been able to block my Sunbeam 6910. Admittedly, I'm using supermarket beans while I muck around and they normally require a finer grind to do so. Nevertheless, I got my old E0480 out and did it in parallel. 17 g into a VST basket by weight from both grinders. Finest grind on E0480 didn't block it but slowed it down to drips. Finest grind on the Breville (both at 1 on the digital screen and 1 on the upper burr). I'm a bit disappointed as I don't believe there is another way to further reduce the grind - i.e. shims. I also feel that the Breville adjusts at much smaller increments - meaning that winding it doesn't have as much range of movement as the Sunbeam if you want to do very coarse grinds for filter, plunger, etc...
    Parktho,
    I suggest you give Breville a call and ask for a replacement. Your grinder sound like it is faulty I'm afraid. My top bur setting is still on the default (6) and digital setting of 11. These settings grind very fine espresso, anything below 10 (digital) chokes my machine (E.C.M Classica P.I.D), of course this is with freshly roasted green beans from Coffee Snobs. Breville are very good at replacement of these grinders by the way. Go get a new one and see how that one goes.
    Brad

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    Quote Originally Posted by bgd57 View Post
    Parktho,
    I suggest you give Breville a call and ask for a replacement. Your grinder sound like it is faulty I'm afraid. My top bur setting is still on the default (6) and digital setting of 11. These settings grind very fine espresso, anything below 10 (digital) chokes my machine (E.C.M Classica P.I.D), of course this is with freshly roasted green beans from Coffee Snobs. Breville are very good at replacement of these grinders by the way. Go get a new one and see how that one goes.
    Brad
    Called Breville. They told me to use fresh beans. I did. Now I have no issues - I am using burr setting 3 and digital grind setting 11. I shouldn't have been so cheap using supermarket beans to trial it in the first place, although I still feel it should be just as capable as my old Sunbeam.

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    I've used this grinder for about 2 years. In the last few weeks it started to struggle and would require twice as much time to grind the same amount of beans. It clean the components but it didn't really help. As it was under warranty, I took it in to a repairer who replaced one of the burs.

  34. #234
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    Quote Originally Posted by parktho View Post
    Called Breville. They told me to use fresh beans. I did. Now I have no issues - I am using burr setting 3 and digital grind setting 11. I shouldn't have been so cheap using supermarket beans to trial it in the first place, although I still feel it should be just as capable as my old Sunbeam.
    So as I had a problem achieving proper pressures again using fresh coffee, I called Breville back. They've tried telling me that I should set the grind a lot coarser if I'm using fresh coffee, and it should give a better shot, as opposed to supermarket coffee which needs to be ground super fine as it's lost its oils. I tried telling them that I set it coarse to begin with and dial down until I achieve the necessary back pressure to give a 30 s shot. Are they right and am I missing something?

    Instead of offering replacement, they've given the details of their local repairer who I'm to take it to. The repairer is a 40 min drive from me, and I can see this just being a massive tail chase. Anyone want to advise how I should put this to Breville?

    Thomas.

  35. #235
    Senior Member prydey's Avatar
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    I had my first 820 replaced after about 3 months. Using fresh beans I couldn't get anything less than a gusher and had maxed out the adjustment on both the top burr and the digital scale.
    Rang Breville. They gave me a reference number and said take it back and get another one.

    2nd one, which is my current one, is still on the factory setting for the top burr and digital scale is around 10, give or take, depending on beans.
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  36. #236
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    I also had a problem with my first 820. I rang Breville, and they told me, just to take it back to where I bought it from and get a replacement, which I did without a problem. Parktho, just take it back to where you bought it and ask for a new one.

  37. #237
    Senior Member prydey's Avatar
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    You will need an ok from Breville. Good guys didn't want to play ball and wanted to test it first. Thankfully I'd already had the green light from Breville with a reference number that obviously linked to my complaint with Breville. Good guys rang up and quoted this number and voila, new grinder.

    So, you may be fine, but I would suggest the place you bought it from won't replace it without a directive from Breville.

  38. #238
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    From experience. Breville and retailers donít talk. I went through this. Take it to the retailer and let them deal with it.

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    Sigh... bought it online.

  40. #240
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    Quote Originally Posted by prydey View Post
    You will need an ok from Breville. Good guys didn't want to play ball and wanted to test it first. Thankfully I'd already had the green light from Breville with a reference number that obviously linked to my complaint with Breville. Good guys rang up and quoted this number and voila, new grinder.

    So, you may be fine, but I would suggest the place you bought it from won't replace it without a directive from Breville.
    prydey,

    I also bought mine from The Good Guys. I rang Breville first and asked for a job number, but the guy said I didn't need one, just to take it back to where I bought it from. I did just that, and explained that I had rang Breville and the staff at good guys just took the old one and gave me a replacement. No quivering about it. Different stores, different outcome, I guess.
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  41. #241
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    Quote Originally Posted by bgd57 View Post
    prydey,

    I also bought mine from The Good Guys. I rang Breville first and asked for a job number, but the guy said I didn't need one, just to take it back to where I bought it from. I did just that, and explained that I had rang Breville and the staff at good guys just took the old one and gave me a replacement. No quivering about it. Different stores, different outcome, I guess.
    Good to hear. I just happened to get a woman who had a small amount of knowledge (which is dangerous) and seemed to take some convincing that it was no good and to contact Breville for confirmation.
    Good that not all stores put you through that.

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    Ive had my grinder for about 3 months, average about 8 shots a week. This morning it sounded like it was really struggling, then changed to that free-wheeling sound you get when you have no beans. I assumed that I had indeed run out of beans but when I topped up it still made the same freewheeling sound. Pulled it all apart, found a few beans jammed, gave it a good clean, ran it empty and it sounded normal except it then developed a consistent clunk. Im tipping it has stripped a gear or similar. I assume its replacement time? Very annoying!

  43. #243
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    Update: Bought a new Breville grinder while I wait for the dead one to be replaced or refunded. I think Breville have serious problems with quality control on these grinders. Its amazing to me that two grinders can be so different in how they perform.
    The new grinder has the same inner setting of 6 as my last grinder and same grinder setting gives me roughly similar results with the same beans, however, the 1st grinder would give me 20gm in about 16s, this new one takes 22s. Thats 38% longer. With such variance, I have no confidence this grinder will make it past 6 months.

  44. #244
    Senior Member Erimus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dre0001 View Post
    Update: Bought a new Breville grinder while I wait for the dead one to be replaced or refunded. I think Breville have serious problems with quality control on these grinders. Its amazing to me that two grinders can be so different in how they perform.
    The new grinder has the same inner setting of 6 as my last grinder and same grinder setting gives me roughly similar results with the same beans, however, the 1st grinder would give me 20gm in about 16s, this new one takes 22s. Thats 38% longer. With such variance, I have no confidence this grinder will make it past 6 months.

    Why would you buy another grinder that you have no confidence in? I realise this grinder comes as a package. There are several grinders on the market that are not much more expensive than the smart grinder and will do a better job. You won't get these at Harvey Norman or the Good Guys though.
    It's a bit like getting married again to someone you don't like ;-)

  45. #245
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    EM7000 and BCG820

    Greetings,

    Long time observer but pretty sure this is my first post, and i'm doing so to share my experience with the combination of a Sunbeam EM7000 and the Breville BCG820 (so it'll have some "brewing equipment" bent to it too).

    TLDR version; i've captured a few stats of grind size, quantity, freshness and more, to try to help others set up this pair of equipment, as (at least) a starting point. some issues having to drastically change the grind using supermarket beans, and some issues with dose variation.

    Working on a new EM7000 (i know! theyre still available new some places) and purchased the Smart Grinder Pro once I realised my old grinder (Cuisinart DBM-8) couldn't espresso in an unpressurised basket without shimming and double-grinding everything - which (double-grinding) doesn't really appear to be a thing.

    Anyway, purchased the Brewista Smart Scale 2 (II) (low end consumer devices are all smart!) so I could track the dosage, durations etc as it was clear from coffeesnobs grinding section that without measurement i'm flying blind.

    I have found scattered amongst dozens of posts, some empirical details around the combination of bean choice, grind fineness, grind duration, dosage, extraction pressure, extraction time and quantity. Among this, I have seen mention of humidity as a thing when grinding, affecting clumpiness and perhaps requiring a finer (?) grind but it's notable that the climate in SE Queensland - while clearly more humid than many places - has been consistent these last couple of weeks in Autumn.

    Firstly, my palette is not overly refined with many things including coffee so I can be perfectly happy with supermarket beans. Accordingly my overarching intent was to figure out how to set up grinder to support my lazy preference to grab Vittoria beans from Woolies, rather than good quality dark beans from somewhere that has roasted them only a week or so ago. Having said that, I did grab a small bag of fresh dark roast beans from "crema coffee garage" where I picked up my scales, and my first measurements were on good new beans.

    I figured i'd add a small table of what has worked so far for me and what i'm still figuring out.

    I figured that the goal was about 12-13g in the original single basket, and 18-19g in the original double basket (in spite of much criticism of the original single basket design, i'm trying to stick with the standard equipment), so i'm dialling in the fineness and the duration on the BCG820 to achieve the weight and the extraction pressure needed.

    Using Removed commercial link as per Site Posting Policy fresh roasted robusta beans, the nearest I got to an extraction that was the correct quantity (about 30ml) in the correct duration (about 30sec) in the single basket was;

    grind time - 12.8sec
    fineness - 8
    burr - factory 6
    grind quantity - 11.9g
    extraction duration - 32s
    extraction quantity - 36.3ml
    extraction pressure - within the second (the higher) orange graduation on the dial, the higher of the "optimum pour" range according to sunbeam.

    With this, i was still not quite happy with the appearance - a pretty thin crema and fairly light in colour - even though the taste was fine if i'm any judge of that, and I figure it's still under-extracted, but with extraction duration being already above 30s, perhaps its right...

    Knowing that the tamp on this one was probably a bit lighter than usual, i could probably have had a slightly better result, bringing down the extraction quantity, and extending the extraction duration a little, but suspect the flow would still have appeared a bit watery.

    Certainly, I would not have achieved the poetic imagery that sunbeam have run with when they say I should be aiming for "a slow, but flowing pour of espresso with a consistency similar to that of dripping honey".

    Changing to supermarket beans (Vittoria "Premium High Altitude Mountain Grown" arabica), I was blown away by just how different the grind settings had to be and i'm still working on getting it right. The best so far is still way under extracted;

    grind time - ~15.9s (maybe a little more, i messed up the timing because i paused the grinder to lightly tamp, and didn't realise the timer resets really quickly)
    fineness - 3
    burr - 6
    grind quantity - 13.1g
    extract duration - 15s
    extract quantity - 41.0ml
    extraction pressure - grey (the segment below the "optimum pour" range on the Sunbeam)

    The extraction quantity is too much, and the extraction duration too low (and a watery consistency) so suspect a finer grind could help as the grind quantity is getting close to maximum in the basket.

    Next tried;
    grind time - 16.0s
    fineness - 1
    burr - 6
    grind quantity - 12.6
    extraction duration - 10 (tamp variation??)
    extraction quantity 39.4ml
    extraction pressure - around the top of the second pressure graduation, well below the optimum pour range.

    That's the most recent attempt. Logically the burr setting needs to be reduced from here, for these supermarket beans.

    Having recorded details for 24 different combinations of grind time, fineness and - since the weekend - beans, in making a bunch of coffees on this equipment a couple of other observations;

    With a focus on the (supposedly very difficult) single basket, i haven't done too many tests with the (supposedly much easier) double basket, but it appears to perform adequately on fresh beans with the below settings, but again the extraction didn't pour "like honey" was a little more watery than that and crema was still a little thinner and lighter in colour than expected;

    grind time - 9.4s x 2 (taking the advice of Rusty maybe? in grinding once, tamping lightly, then grinding the second lot)
    fineness - 8
    burr - 6
    grind quantity - 16.3 (still pretty low)
    extraction duration - 30sec
    extraction quantity - 72.5ml (still pretty high)
    extraction pressure - low in the first orange "optimum pour" segment

    Final observations about the BCG820;
    - There appear to be maybe 1-2g of retention, so banging on the side of the grinder at the end of a grind will change the observed quantity (so do it consistently or not at all)
    - It looks like about a gram of additional grind for each additional second on the timer, so for example;

    fresh beans went from
    11s to 12s on
    fineness 11, and the dose went from
    11.5g to 12.5g, and on

    supermarket beans went from
    15s to 16s on
    fineness 1, and the dose went from
    11.7g to 12.6g.

    - IIRC I have read that the grinder tries to do something to attempt to maintain a dose quantity during changes in grind fineness
    - I've observed that fineness adjustment isn't too precise in that the wheel can be tweaked two or three larger movements and remain on the same fineness on screen, and once you tweak one movement too far (too fine), come back one tweak (love that word!) to the right fineness range, and you still have maybe two minor tweaks before it rolls over again. I've been adjusting to what i think is the absolute bottom of each fineness range.
    - my observations around dose management through fineness adjustments are;

    fresh beans
    12s grind
    11 fineness
    12.5g dose
    adjusted fineness down and saw
    12s grind
    10 fineness
    11.9g dose

    and ealier i experienced

    9.6s grind
    10 fineness
    9.9g dose
    adjusted fineness down and saw
    9.6s grind
    9 fineness
    9.0g dose

    - lastly, I don't have too many instances of this, but dose variation does appear to happen with same grind duration and fineness (and i think i recall reading this maybe even in this thread). i experienced;

    11.8s grind
    10 fineness
    12.0g dose
    and
    11.8s grind
    10 fineness
    12.9g dose

    and

    10.2s grind
    8 fineness
    10.1g dose
    and
    10.2s grind
    8 fineness
    10.5g dose

    Anyway, my wall of text on this grinder ends now.

    Thanks
    Last edited by Javaphile; 17th April 2018 at 12:29 PM. Reason: Commercial link(s) removed

  46. #246
    Junior Member
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    Mar 2018
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    SE Queensland
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    Had another half a dozen attempts over the last day or two, and have edged nearer to a good coffee on this equipment;

    Vittoria supermarket beans
    24s grind (stopping about half way to lightly tamp so it all fits in)
    1 fineness
    1 burr setting
    16.3g dose
    pretty hard tamp (including sunbeam's suggested tamp and twist)
    original equipment single basket
    20sec extraction
    1st (lowest) of the "optimum pour" orange graduations on the EM7000 pressure gauge
    39.7ml shot

    So it looks like we really might be up against it trying to use this equipment to get a normal coffee out of supermarket beans, as we're at the finest possible grind, and almost the maximum dose (might be able to squeeze another gram into the basket) before getting close to the optimum range, and even then the extraction was still a little quick and a little too much for a single shot...

  47. #247
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Adelaide, S.A.
    Posts
    180
    Hi kyuss,

    I enjoyed your posts and thanks for taking the time to write things down in a logical sequence.

    Cheers.

  48. #248
    Junior Member
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    Mar 2018
    Location
    SE Queensland
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    thanks bigdaddy, appreciate the feedback!

  49. #249
    Junior Member
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    Mar 2018
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    SE Queensland
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    All,

    A quick update a month down the track.

    Having worked for a while with this grinder and supermarket beans I landed on this
    Date
    Beans
    Burr
    Fineness Duration Dose(g) Tamp PF Duration(s) Pressure Shot(g)
    Late Apr18 Vittoria Mountain Grown 1 2 2 x 11.8 16.5 V Firm Single 31 1st Optimal
    Graduation
    50.3

    And it's notable that I was unable to cram any more coffee into the single filter basket (already getting shower screen marks as is)

    Also notable that I was unable to get a good coffee out of the double filter basket at all using supermarket beans.

    Having worked for a while too now on some fresh beans, I've found a set up which works pretty well for single shot, and while it's okay for doubles ill have to keep trying on that one.

    Date
    Beans Burr Fineness Duration(s) Dose(g) Tamp PF Duration(s) Pressure Shot(g)
    13/05/18 Stella Rosa 5 star 01/05/18 1 9 2 x 9.8 16.7 Medium
    pressure
    Double 43 1st optimal 75
    21/05/18 Stella Rosa 5 star 01/05/18 1 9 12.8 11 Medium
    pressure
    Single 40 2nd optimal 38.1

    I suspect either a firmer tamp, or slightly higher dose for the double will work slightly better.

    For your info, here is the gauge on the EM7000



    i'm saying 6 is the 1st optimum pour graduation and 7 is the 2nd.

    ta

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