After reading this thread I'm a bit worried about my decision. Was going to order a baratza sette 270w tomorrow and list my macap m2m here. Thought I'd notice a big difference going flat to conical. Not so sure now. What would you guys recommend? Worth throwing away $300 for no difference?
Honestly Owlee, the Baratzi has buggerall in common with large conical grinders such as a K10 or Robur. I would recommend a Macap M2D or Macap M4D just for sheer solid build and longevity. A large conical like the Robur is great if you are happy with the looks and size if you get it cheap enough and are fantastically over engineered for home use.
I seriously doubt you'll notice much difference in flavour, but you never know. It'll be interesting to hear if you do. You'll possibly find it easier to use, but then again maybe not by much. I would consider it a sideways movement and I know there's people that would consider Baratza a virtual appliance brand so would call this a slight step down.
Originally Posted by Owlee
Yeah always wanted a m4d. The sette just intrigued me for the price. Obviously longevity seems to be a possible issue too. Maybe I should just upgrade the old bz10 instead 😊
Thanks for the responses.
One thing for sure there are plenty of ways to part with your money on equipment!
Originally Posted by Owlee
I would consider second hand for equipment especially grinders but also espresso machines. This gear is solidly engineered and will last for a long time.
The Bezzera BZ10 is a good machine. I had the Bezzera BZ40-P and it was a great machine and was over 20 years old when I sold it.
I will most likely sell the Robur simply as it looks out of place in the kitchen. I really just wanted to test it and so in a few weeks I will sell it, most likely anyway. You never know though I may not want to part with it in which case a Macap M4D will be for sale.
Definitely if you are buying new equipment but have doubts, just wait until you are sure.
Conical vs burr grinders - a sceptic no more
Hi wattgn. Please PM me when you're ready to sell the Robur as I can find a good home for it 🤣Oh and help the group by contributing feedback.
Originally Posted by matth3wh
My pleasure to provide honest feedback. Initial impressions are really good, grind looks great and I love the doser.
I am in Perth though and at 28kg it would be expensive to ship.
It is highly likely I will be pressured to sell by my wife. She hates coffee but is really very nice to let me indulge my hobby. The Robur is very big and was born in the ugly tree and hit every branch on the way down.
I had an issue with my Wega, anti-vacuum valve so just got that fixed. In the meantime I have been using the Robur just to grind for my plunger. It is nice the way it is easy to change the grind quickly.
Regarding retention. Buggerall as far as I can see just a few grams. When I got the machine back and changed the grind back to the previous setting, I only got a few grams out before the new grind came through. I changed my portafilter and basket back to the one that came with the machine too. After all that, the grind was perfect first time.
It is still too early to make comparisons on flavour between this and the Macap M4D but the Robur is a lovely machine and surprisingly easy to live with. It is huge however and ugly and my wife is calls it the 'monster' and said she is putting her foot down, presumably on my head if I don't shift the monster.
I have some time though before this happens I hope but we will see.
I am impressed enough though with this machine to give it the thumbs up. I like the doser...a lot actually. It means absolutely no clumps. The grind is nice and fluffy. It is easy and fast to adjust and the grind is stable and predictable. The machine is also relatively quiet.
The grinder wouldn't stay on long enough to really bother you even if it was loud. I'm actually glad I kept my Kony E I think it's a fantastic grinder.
Originally Posted by wattgn
Yes, you are right. I give it about four seconds and it is done. I've changed back to the standard Wega Handle and basket now rather than the Pesado handle with an 18g IMS basket so I had to change the grind. Very little retention or wastage. I will do some comparisons soon with the M4D.
Originally Posted by Jono_Willmer
Last edited by wattgn; 31st August 2017 at 11:07 AM.
I'm a massive fan of the big Mazzers, they are so simple to use and produce a great coffee.
Originally Posted by wattgn
I finally did some comparisons to the Macap M4D against the Mazzer Robur. The pours were close to 25 seconds and looked similar in the cup. I really couldn't taste the difference in the cup. It isn't to say with the right taste buds and the right roast that there would not be a difference though. The grind itself is fluffier and with the doser there are no clumps and that is the main difference I noticed.
I will be selling the Mazzer Robur, not because I don't like it. I do but it would have to be obviously better in taste than the M4D for me to attempt to cajole my wife into allowing me to keep it.
Having said that, I will be using this grinder and enjoying using this grinder until I do sell it.
I find it retains very little but I haven't gone to great lengths t mod it. The full hopper cutoff is still in place so I don't brush the chute. I sometimes leave beans in the hopper overnight. I leave ground coffee in it between shots (not much as I time it pretty well) during the day (but clear ground coffee overnight).
I prefer the worm drive dosing mechanism on the Macap M4D, it is perfect whereas the Robur works just fine but just requires more attention to make small adjustments to the grind.
The Robur is easy to live with, surprisingly so. I probably waste a bit more coffee with clearing ground coffee occasionally. If you flick the hopper lever too fast it can through a bit to the left but really it is a very nice machine and I would happily recommend this machine to a home espresso enthusiast. If I didn't have the Macap M4D, I would happily use this day in and day out.
The great thing buying second hand is you can trade these machines. I'd love to try a Mazzer Major next, bought second hand most likely although I was surprised to see these on sale for not much over $1000.
It also made me respect and like the Doser. I was fairly one-eyed on the idea of doserless machines but now I'm not so sure. The doser ensure good mixing of the shot and zero chance of clumping. The only downside is some wasted coffee but the amount is really pretty small definitely less than 10% possibly even 5%, not much. I also didn't really miss the timer on the Macap. It was pretty easy to estimate the time needed to get a basket full.
Finally I didn't really notice it behaving differently with the level of beans in the hopper, the grind seemed pretty consistent. I wouldn't say though that the grind is any more or less consistent than the Macap, both produce very consistent results. I likewise didn't notice any more or less crema in the cup or any differences in the pour when comparing side by side.
The appeal of these big machines is a sense of both power, robustness and permanence. These machines will go forever in a home environment and are totally solid. If I kept this I would maybe try to get a smaller hopper but even that isn't really an issue functionally, although maybe aesthetically it is. The hopper even this big 1.8kg hopper isn't an issue for me.
I will miss this machine when it does go. I could recommend this machine to any snobbie whether you are a beginner or advanced, it matters not.