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Thread: Which Grinder should I Purchase - M2M or Q50S

  1. #1
    Junior Member Javi's Avatar
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    Which Grinder should I Purchase - M2M or Q50S

    Hi Group, I'm looking at purchasing a home professional espresso machine, the ECM T IV Profi, but remain undecided on the choice of grinder.

    It is only me that drinks coffee at home, hence both machines will be doing very little work, approximately 2 to 3 shots per day, sometimes 4. Important points in a grinder for me is not speed of grind or grind volume ability, but more so he quality of grind, on-demand grind, particle distribution and separation, and in particular grind retention or ease to vacate the blades and spout of coffee grinds after each grind to prevent wastage and/or retained grinds from stalling.

    My grinder budget shouldn't exceed the $650 mark, and I have shortlisted the choices to a Macap M2M and a Quamar Q50S push. I've read a few reviews on both grinders, albeit no direct comparisons, and in general the users seem to be quite happy with the performance of either machine. If anyone can compare both machines and provide feedback it would be much appreciated. Alternatively you can suggest a different grinder you know to be superior.

  2. #2
    Site Sponsor K_Bean_Coffee's Avatar
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    Both great grinders but the Q50 is in the next class. I'm running 2 Q50Ps at home every day and they are fantastic. Read here for some of my thoughts: www.kbean.com.au/buyers-guide.
    Cheers
    mtooler and GunBarista like this.

  3. #3
    Member GunBarista's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Javi View Post
    Hi Group, I'm looking at purchasing a home professional espresso machine, the ECM T IV Profi, but remain undecided on the choice of grinder.

    It is only me that drinks coffee at home, hence both machines will be doing very little work, approximately 2 to 3 shots per day, sometimes 4. Important points in a grinder for me is not speed of grind or grind volume ability, but more so he quality of grind, on-demand grind, particle distribution and separation, and in particular grind retention or ease to vacate the blades and spout of coffee grinds after each grind to prevent wastage and/or retained grinds from stalling.

    My grinder budget shouldn't exceed the $650 mark, and I have shortlisted the choices to a Macap M2M and a Quamar Q50S push. I've read a few reviews on both grinders, albeit no direct comparisons, and in general the users seem to be quite happy with the performance of either machine. If anyone can compare both machines and provide feedback it would be much appreciated. Alternatively you can suggest a different grinder you know to be superior.
    Hey Javi!

    Beautiful machine you have there - I have the ECM T IV Profi as well in the office but I've paired it with a Vario grinder.
    I know that it's above the $650 mark but it's the perfect machine for exactly what you want from what you're describing.

    However, if I had to choose between the Q50S and the M2M - in which I actually have changed blades on and used personally - I'd go the M2M because it has a smaller bay (obviously because of it having smaller smaller blades..) but it's also slightly shallower which helps you clear it out more efficiently every time you do a grind purge (so less wastage)

    I'd go the extra step and get the Vario tbh

  4. #4
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    If it is at all remotely possible, I would highly recommend that you make an appointment with one of our Site Sponsors and check out grinders within your budget range personally. Only way to be sure you end up with what suits your requirements as closely as possible...

    Mal.
    P.S.
    Before committing to a grinder like the Mahlkonig Vario, I'd recommend doing a reasonable amount of research here and elsewhere. Though there may be a number of satisfied owners, there are also quite a number of dissatisfied owners with machines that suffered longevity issues...
    Last edited by Dimal; 29th November 2016 at 10:34 PM.
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  5. #5
    Member GunBarista's Avatar
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    Which Grinder should I Purchase - M2M or Q50S

    Quote Originally Posted by Dimal View Post
    If it is at all remotely possible, I would highly recommend that you make an appointment with one of our Site Sponsors and check out grinders within your budget range personally. Only way to be sure you end up with what suits your requirements as closely as possible...

    Mal.
    P.S.
    Before committing to a grinder like the Mahlkonig Vario, I'd recommend doing a reasonable amount of research here and elsewhere. Though there may be a number of satisfied owners, there are also quite a number of dissatisfied owners with machines that suffered longevity issues...
    +1 absolutely
    The Mahlkonig Vario - as much as I do like it - ain't the most robust grinder on the market and is quite a delicate grinder internally, even if they added more stainless steel to the externals...

    Bur like everything, proper use/care and maintenance will help prolong the life of your equipment (unless it's a manufacturers fault)

    Best to see, touch and feel for yourself
    Last edited by GunBarista; 30th November 2016 at 07:38 AM.

  6. #6
    Senior Member ArtW's Avatar
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    I know its not on your short list but FWIW if I was buying a grinder for home use at the price range you are talking about, I would be strongly leaning toward the Baratza Sette, you can pre-order the 'W' which automatically weighs your grinds for your budget.

  7. #7
    Senior Member magnafunk's Avatar
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    The sette is currently untested as far as longevity goes. Do you have someone who can help you out in Sydney? http://coffeesnobs.com.au/coffee-har...tml#post594670

  8. #8
    Senior Member ArtW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by magnafunk View Post
    The sette is currently untested as far as longevity goes.
    Yes, its new. many coffee snobs seem to obsess about this and consequently purchase scaled down commercial 'tanks' for home use. I'm not immune, I have a Macap m4, definitely overkill for my usage. The OP only make 2-4 shots per day and Barratza is not exactly new to the grinder business. Over time they have evolved and improved their designs, I don't think there's much to worry about.

  9. #9
    Senior Member magnafunk's Avatar
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    I'm actually very interested in the sette as well, but would like to see how it's looking in a year before recommending it. I have used a baratza preciso and the amount of plastic was disturbing,the person who gave it to me was from a 2 coffee a day household and she told me she had broken 3 upper burr holders, and an adjustment ring. Add to that the gearbox is full of plastic and I'm quietly cautious about how well their latest offering will last. The blessing is if you're handy, they are very easy to take apart.

  10. #10
    Site Sponsor K_Bean_Coffee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by magnafunk View Post
    I'm actually very interested in the sette as well, but would like to see how it's looking in a year before recommending it.
    +1 for that. It looks like a 9/10 for performance and innovation (loosing 1 for being noisy) with 5/10 for build quality. I haven't seen one yet but the reviews lead me that way.
    If they bring out a commercial quality version that will be a killer. Let's hope they are working on one. I would guess that they are

  11. #11
    Site Sponsor K_Bean_Coffee's Avatar
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    I should get my hands on a Sette soon. I can't wait to have a play with one.

  12. #12
    Site Sponsor Casa Espresso's Avatar
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    for what its worth we have just taken delivery of our first order of the new Eureka ATOM grinders.

    A step above the Macap M4D and ticks A LOT of boxes in my opinion
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  13. #13
    Site Sponsor Casa Espresso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by magnafunk View Post
    I'm actually very interested in the sette as well, but would like to see how it's looking in a year before recommending it. I have used a baratza preciso and the amount of plastic was disturbing,the person who gave it to me was from a 2 coffee a day household and she told me she had broken 3 upper burr holders, and an adjustment ring. Add to that the gearbox is full of plastic and I'm quietly cautious about how well their latest offering will last. The blessing is if you're handy, they are very easy to take apart.
    I know from personal and first hand customer experience on the Baratza that durability is an issue. The plastic adjustment ring seems a constant failure point along with some of the other plastic components. The basic design of the grinder is very sound though
    K_Bean_Coffee and magnafunk like this.

  14. #14
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    I have nothing but bad experience with Baratza. The first time I got my Preciso brand new, it wouldn't grind anything below 5. The moment I turn it would just turn off.
    After exchanging a new one, it won't grind any finer than 2-3 as it would get stuck and stop feeding beans. Just after 1 year of using, the plastic ring over the burr grinder cracked. I'm thinking of just selling mine off to buy another grinder.
    Stay away from Baratza.
    K_Bean_Coffee likes this.

  15. #15
    Junior Member mtooler's Avatar
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    The Q50P Im using is going well over the first month or so now.
    K_Bean_Coffee likes this.

  16. #16
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    I bought a m2m very recently and I am very happy with the purchase. If you read the reviews it is tried and tested so sure that you will not be disappointed and will also keep a couple of dollars in your pocket.
    Dimal and Casa Espresso like this.

  17. #17
    Junior Member MrPug's Avatar
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    I'm considering these 2 grinders as well. Leaving out other competitors like the baratza's, in the opinion of those that have used both (thinking of you Paul) what are you getting for the extra $150 or so for the Q50P over the M2M? Is it faster? Quieter? I don't think anyone is questioning the quality, consistency or durability of the M2M as it's a tried and true performer at a great price, but what advantages do you get when paying more for the Q50, given it's newer and longevity isn't as well established as yet?
    snedden9485 likes this.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrPug View Post
    I'm considering these 2 grinders as well. Leaving out other competitors like the baratza's, in the opinion of those that have used both (thinking of you Paul) what are you getting for the extra $150 or so for the Q50P over the M2M? Is it faster? Quieter? I don't think anyone is questioning the quality, consistency or durability of the M2M as it's a tried and true performer at a great price, but what advantages do you get when paying more for the Q50, given it's newer and longevity isn't as well established as yet?
    I think the Q50 is a much better grinder. Very solid and great performance for the price.

  19. #19
    Site Sponsor K_Bean_Coffee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrPug View Post
    ...... in the opinion of those that have used both (thinking of you Paul) what are you getting for the extra $150 or so for the Q50P over the M2M?
    Hi Mr Plug,
    These are both great grinders but the Q50P has a number of advantages.
    1. Tidier grinding (I get 24g into a 22g basket without spilling a speck)
    2. An analogue timer (I don't use it but it's there if you want it)
    3. A little bigger with great looks and presence (I think)
    Speed and noise are pretty close and you won't notice any difference in the cup of course.
    I hope this helps a little, and doesn't read like an ad
    Cheers Paul

  20. #20
    Junior Member MrPug's Avatar
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    Thanks Paul, appreciate the input. That's pretty much what I thought. I do like the doser funnel and assumed it would keep the benchtop a bit cleaner. I actually really love the look of the Q50 and although I mightn't use the timer much I suppose it's nice to have the option if it proves to be useful.

    At this stage I'm leaning towards the Q50. I'll try to contact some sponsors and get my hands on one to try

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by K_Bean_Coffee View Post
    Hi Mr Plug,
    These are both great grinders but the Q50P has a number of advantages.
    1. Tidier grinding (I get 24g into a 22g basket without spilling a speck)
    24g doses, holy mackerel!
    K_Bean_Coffee likes this.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Javi View Post
    Hi Group, I'm looking at purchasing a home professional espresso machine, the ECM T IV Profi, but remain undecided on the choice of grinder.

    It is only me that drinks coffee at home, hence both machines will be doing very little work, approximately 2 to 3 shots per day, sometimes 4. Important points in a grinder for me is not speed of grind or grind volume ability, but more so he quality of grind, on-demand grind, particle distribution and separation, and in particular grind retention or ease to vacate the blades and spout of coffee grinds after each grind to prevent wastage and/or retained grinds from stalling.

    My grinder budget shouldn't exceed the $650 mark, and I have shortlisted the choices to a Macap M2M and a Quamar Q50S push. I've read a few reviews on both grinders, albeit no direct comparisons, and in general the users seem to be quite happy with the performance of either machine. If anyone can compare both machines and provide feedback it would be much appreciated. Alternatively you can suggest a different grinder you know to be superior.
    I haven't used the Q50 myself, but do own an M2M. Although I have switched to a Compak K3, so far I haven't been able to bring myself to selling the M2M, it does a fine job and is nice and compact. My guess is that the Q50 given the larger burr diameter is likely to have smaller increments in grind setting though.

    Not to hijack this thread, but as a European I lately became a member on this forum after already having been lurking and posting on Homebarista.com for a few years. Now we all agree that to make quality home espresso, after having the good (fresh) beans the grinder is key. What strikes me on this forum and this thread in particular is that with a top-notch machine like the ECM Technika to mate it with, both grinders you are considering seem to be appreciated as perfectly up to the task, whereas on HB.com these would probably be considered mediocre in comparison and you would be advised to spend more on the grinder and less on the machine. Not to mention the forum in my home country, where anything smaller than a Super Jolly (with the exception of the Vario) tends to be dismissed by the most vocal of senior members. I have often wondered what it is that makes a "matching pair" of a grinder and an espresso machine. Given the solid reputation Australia has on coffee culture and knowledge, I would love to hear opinions on, shall I say, the "bigger is better" dogma regarding grinders.

  23. #23
    Senior Member LeroyC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by degaulle View Post
    I haven't used the Q50 myself, but do own an M2M. Although I have switched to a Compak K3, so far I haven't been able to bring myself to selling the M2M, it does a fine job and is nice and compact. My guess is that the Q50 given the larger burr diameter is likely to have smaller increments in grind setting though.

    Not to hijack this thread, but as a European I lately became a member on this forum after already having been lurking and posting on Homebarista.com for a few years. Now we all agree that to make quality home espresso, after having the good (fresh) beans the grinder is key. What strikes me on this forum and this thread in particular is that with a top-notch machine like the ECM Technika to mate it with, both grinders you are considering seem to be appreciated as perfectly up to the task, whereas on HB.com these would probably be considered mediocre in comparison and you would be advised to spend more on the grinder and less on the machine. Not to mention the forum in my home country, where anything smaller than a Super Jolly (with the exception of the Vario) tends to be dismissed by the most vocal of senior members. I have often wondered what it is that makes a "matching pair" of a grinder and an espresso machine. Given the solid reputation Australia has on coffee culture and knowledge, I would love to hear opinions on, shall I say, the "bigger is better" dogma regarding grinders.
    Interesting point. My experience is that the biggest gap in grinder performance is between the top of the range small conical burr grinders like the Breville Smart Grinder or Iberital Challenge and the entry level flat burr grinders like the M2M, K3, Rocky etc. Spending more to get a bigger or higher level semi-commercial grinder buys you better features that might make it faster, quieter, less messy, more accurate or easier to use. Other than that there's no real discernible difference in cup quality so the entry level flat burr grinders do just fine. The reasons for spending more first up could be more to avoid wanting to upgrade again soon and to make sure you're satisfied with the purchase.
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  24. #24
    Site Sponsor K_Bean_Coffee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeroyC View Post
    Interesting point. My experience is that the biggest gap in grinder performance is between the top of the range small conical burr grinders like the Breville Smart Grinder or Iberital Challenge and the entry level flat burr grinders like the M2M, K3, Rocky etc. Spending more to get a bigger or higher level semi-commercial grinder buys you better features that might make it faster, quieter, less messy, more accurate or easier to use. Other than that there's no real discernible difference in cup quality so the entry level flat burr grinders do just fine.....
    Spot on Leroy. I was working on a soon-to
    -be-released updated buyers guide on the weekend and my new grinders section says pretty much exactly what you have said above.

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    Quote Originally Posted by K_Bean_Coffee View Post
    Spot on Leroy. I was working on a soon-to
    -be-released updated buyers guide on the weekend and my new grinders section says pretty much exactly what you have said above.
    Interesting conclusion that the biggest step up for quality in the cup is to go from small conical to entry level flat. That is information for many starting home baristas. Thanks for the replies gents!

  26. #26
    Site Sponsor K_Bean_Coffee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by degaulle View Post
    Interesting conclusion that the biggest step up for quality in the cup is to go from small conical to entry level flat. That is information for many starting home baristas. Thanks for the replies gents!
    Hi there.
    That's correct but a better way of putting it is that the entry level commercial planar (flat) burr grinder is what you need for a consistent grind. The "appliance" grinders (with small conical burrs) don't grind consistently.
    Again, I hope this helps

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    I have to agree with Degaulle. I recently joined CS, and was surprised about the 'small' grinder recommendations. In the U.K. everyone seems to recommend a minimum of Eureka Mignon or second hand Mazzer SJ, and on the forum I frequent the smaller Macap or Rocky would be skipped with members usually going straight to a commercial grinder and a 64mm burr, modifying the doser to sweep cleanly.
    I assume second hand availability is also a factor, as Mazzer SJs were all over UK eBay and some amazing bargains were regularly available.
    The most amazing upgrade I did was to go from a little Sunbeam conical to my Mazzer SJ And I really believe that the grinder is the key to an amazing shot.
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  28. #28
    Junior Member MrPug's Avatar
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    Just got my new Q50P delivered today! Love the look of my new machine and grinder on the bench. I've only made a couple of coffees with it so far so yet to dial it in properly (also still kind of getting used to a new coffee machine too) but so far I can say it's much quieter than my previous grinder and getting next to no grinds on the bench. Build quality seems top notch. Definitely pleased with going for the Q50
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  29. #29
    Site Sponsor K_Bean_Coffee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrPug View Post
    Just got my new Q50P delivered today!
    Enjoy it MrPug, and thanks for posting the Pic.
    Cheers, Paul

    You can read my thoughts on the Quamar Q50P here: https://www.kbean.com.au/coffee-grin...p-ii?rq=Quamar

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by K_Bean_Coffee View Post
    Enjoy it MrPug, and thanks for posting the Pic.
    Cheers, Paul

    You can read my thoughts on the Quamar Q50P here: https://www.kbean.com.au/coffee-grin...p-ii?rq=Quamar
    Hi Paul! What do you think about ecm S-Automatic 64? Have a ecm synchronika and what to buy a new grinder got a great deal from my dealer on ECM 64 what it is between that and a quamar m80e.
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  31. #31
    Site Sponsor K_Bean_Coffee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sancar View Post
    Hi Paul! What do you think about ecm S-Automatic 64? Have a ecm synchronika and what to buy a new grinder got a great deal from my dealer on ECM 64 what it is between that and a quamar m80e.
    Both great grinders.

    The ECM S-Automatic 64 is great if you have a Synchronika as it's nice to brand-match.
    Link: https://www.kbean.com.au/coffee-grin...atik-64?rq=ECM

    The Quamar M80E is a little bigger and quieter. It also has the benefit of the funnel on the front - an empty chamber designed to break up clumps and remove static from the grind. This results in low/no mess fluffy and clump-free grind.
    Link: https://www.kbean.com.au/coffee-grin...ar-m80e?rq=M80

    You mentioned a great price on the S-64. Remember, I price match

    Cheers, Paul.

  32. #32
    Senior Member Magic_Matt's Avatar
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    Which Grinder should I Purchase - M2M or Q50S

    I have a Synchronika; bought the ECM S-64 partly for matchy-matchy factor... decided I wasn't a fan before even completely unblocking it and Paul kindly helped me exchange/upgrade to the ECM V-Titan.

    Partly didn't love the aesthetics (looks tiny and tinny next to the Synchronika) but also not a fan of the "beak" - no access to the anti-static grid and grind chute for modification/sweeping/removal etc. The Profitec *64 has the same cone as the V-Titan and would be a better choice of the two stablemates IMO. Can't comment from experience on the Quamar.
    sancar likes this.

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