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Thread: Profitec Pro 64 - Question on the funnel

  1. #1
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    Profitec Pro 64 - Question on the funnel

    Hi CS community,

    Relatively new to the world of coffee making. I purchased a T64 pro on the weekend though the piece inside the funnel looks broken. I was told this is the new design however I'm experiencing quite some mess when grinding and thinking the source could be this filter. Anyone can share their experience or feedback?

    Thanks in advanced.


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    Welcome Helg,
    I'm viewing the picture on my phone and I can't tell if that's something attached to the grid or the grid is missing. My t64 has the full lattice with nothing attached, and I purchased mine roughly 2 months ago.
    Regards
    Char

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    Senior Member Magic_Matt's Avatar
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    G'day helg,

    I understand that's a new design to prevent grounds building up/stagnating behind the anti-static grid (they move more slowly in the top left corner due to the grind path). Paul/k-bean could confirm - I think the mod was based on his feedback.

    I have an ECM Titan which has the same funnel and the old "complete" grid; it is virtually mess/static free.

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    Thanks guys, I've received a reply from Profitec saying that some distributors modify the grid. He didn't confirm weather or not it's like this from factory. i still have quite some mess after each grind. Perhaps i need to adjust the portafilter holder.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic_Matt View Post
    G'day helg,

    I understand that's a new design to prevent grounds building up/stagnating behind the anti-static grid (they move more slowly in the top left corner due to the grind path). Paul/k-bean could confirm - I think the mod was based on his feedback.

    I have an ECM Titan which has the same funnel and the old "complete" grid; it is virtually mess/static free.
    I revisited the pro t64 thread where b mentioned he removed the two upper vertical bars. This looks more like removal of a quadrant/corner but as you mentioned if the issue is more specific for that top left corner that'll be self explanatory.
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    Quote Originally Posted by K_Bean_Coffee View Post
    That's good news. The mod should balance the flow. Without the mod, grounds build up behind the top of the mesh and just get stuck there.
    Cheers, Paul
    The profitec pro 64 has a big motor that doesn’t suit the rest of the body and thus will spilt out coffee faster than the chute can handle causing build up and clogs. I used one before and came to the conclusion that the grid is better taken off..
    The funny part is that, once the grid is off, the coffee comes out so violently that it hits the funnel and automatically de-clumps the grinds for you :P
    Win Win !

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    Quote Originally Posted by GunBarista View Post
    The profitec pro 64 has a big motor that doesn’t suit the rest of the body and thus will spilt out coffee faster than the chute can handle causing build up and clogs. I used one before and came to the conclusion that the grid is better taken off..
    The funny part is that, once the grid is off, the coffee comes out so violently that it hits the funnel and automatically de-clumps the grinds for you :P
    Win Win !
    The gate is there for a reason, but it's not because the "motor is too big"!! You'll find this type of mechanism (whether it's a metal gate or silicon flap etc) on most doserless grinders.

    The current crop of T64s are going out with the gate design shown above. We haven't seen any issue with mess with the T64 so if it's anything other than an overfilled pf let us know.

    charlie
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    Quote Originally Posted by JetBlack_Espresso View Post
    The gate is there for a reason, but it's not because the "motor is too big"!! You'll find this type of mechanism (whether it's a metal gate or silicon flap etc) on most doserless grinders.

    The current crop of T64s are going out with the gate design shown above. We haven't seen any issue with mess with the T64 so if it's anything other than an overfilled pf let us know.

    charlie
    Didn't say that the motor was 'too big' - that's your words.

    I never liked the metal gates on anything and have always taken it off. Never caused any harm.

    It's just personal preference.

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    The 'mod' is rough to say the least. I wonder if this is yet just another example of fine German engineering?


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    Senior Member skidquinn's Avatar
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    I have a T64 with the metal grate completely in tact. I have noticed that there are a fair amount of grinds that get 'stuck' up behind it, but haven't ever been too concerned by it.

    With the modified grate as above, by mess, do you mean that the grinds are coming out too fast and spilling outside the portafilter?

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    Senior Member noonar's Avatar
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    The mazzer mini e has a similar grid. As a single doser, 20gm in and 20g out, I used to sweep out the retained grinds behind the grid with a bamboo skewer every grind. I eventually removed the grid and sweeping out is so much less frustrating and quicker. No static or clumping problems either, although I once coarse ground some beans for a cold immersion and the grounds went everwhere, never used the mazzer for coarse ground since. I use a home made coffee catcher to prevent any "mess".
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    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by noonar View Post
    The mazzer mini e has a similar grid. As a single doser, 20gm in and 20g out, I used to sweep out the retained grinds behind the grid with a bamboo skewer every grind. I eventually removed the grid and sweeping out is so much less frustrating and quicker. No static or clumping problems either, although I once coarse ground some beans for a cold immersion and the grounds went everwhere, never used the mazzer for coarse ground since. I use a home made coffee catcher to prevent any "mess".
    My Mazzer Mini had a similar mesh grid when purchased new about 5 years ago, first thing I did was to remove it, vast improvement.

    Be aware though, the grid is there to stop gumbies stickin their fingers or other things in there, it will bite ya.
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    Senior Member Magic_Matt's Avatar
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    I tried removing the grid on my Titan; result was grinds flying at all angles from the bottom of the funnel due to static. Maybe now the burrs have been run in I'll try it again. The one thing I miss from my doser grinder is the ability to sweep the chute almost perfectly clean.

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    Might have to give removing the grate a go. Is it just two different torx screws to remove?
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    Senior Member Magic_Matt's Avatar
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    Costs nothing to try

    Yep, just the two hex bolts at the top - 2 or 3 mm from memory.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic_Matt View Post
    I tried removing the grid on my Titan; result was grinds flying at all angles from the bottom of the funnel due to static. Maybe now the burrs have been run in I'll try it again. The one thing I miss from my doser grinder is the ability to sweep the chute almost perfectly clean.
    I'm sure someone can create an aftermarket hinged grid, given it can be attached with hex screws.

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    Quote Originally Posted by readeral View Post
    I'm sure someone can create an aftermarket hinged grid, given it can be attached with hex screws.
    That's actually a great idea

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    Senior Member readeral's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GunBarista View Post
    That's actually a great idea
    Might find a way to feed it back up the chain...
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    Senior Member skidquinn's Avatar
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    I tried my T64 last night without the grid and it made an almighty mess..... Grinds everywhere. Put it straight back on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by skidquinn View Post
    I tried my T64 last night without the grid and it made an almighty mess..... Grinds everywhere. Put it straight back on.
    Did you have the hopper lid on?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yelta View Post
    Did you have the hopper lid on?
    Of course not!! I wanted to watch the grinds flying out!
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    So I removed the grate, and gave it a little purge and noticed that when the grinds come out, it hits the opposite side of the funnel and gets stuck there. Previously I think the grind hitting the grate slowed the velocity and then it'll drop straight down.
    Anyone else having this issue or a way around it?

  23. #23
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    Profitec Pro 64 - Question on the funnel

    You will have noticed with the grate off that the grinds throw to the right when coming down the chute, and meet the screen at the bottom and begin to build up. This is why a modded screen works, as there'll always be more "oomph" behind the grinds travelling through the bottom right of the grid than the top left.
    I installed a modded grid myself the other day and I've really enjoyed the results thus far. Bit more fluff in my grind, less retained behind the screen in general, and (even) quicker grind times.
    Still dreaming of how I could rig up a hinged solution though...
    Last edited by readeral; 12th January 2017 at 11:50 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by readeral View Post
    You will have noticed with the grate off that the grinds throw to the right when coming down the chute, and meet the screen at the bottom and begin to build up. This is why a modded screen works, as there'll always be more "oomph" behind the grinds travelling through the bottom right of the grid than the top left.
    I installed a modded grid myself the other day and I've really enjoyed the results thus far. Bit more fluff in my grind, less retained behind the screen in general, and (even) quicker grind times.
    Still dreaming of how I could rig up a hinged solution though...
    Al, did you cut the screen that comes with the T64, or make your own? I can't bring myself to cut it up just yet.
    Interesting point about the speed. When i took my screen off, I thought the grind speeds were a fair bit quicker as well. Logically, i can't understand why it would be quicker.

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    Hi there, greetings from England! First post on this forum, but a regular member on the UK Coffee forums!

    Just joining you guys as it seems there is a very good discussion here regarding the Profitect t64 grinder, whereas it is not so popular in the UK Forum at all. As far as I know, I am the only forum member there who owns this grinder. I also have a Profitec 700. I found the combo great.

    I am very pleased to have found this thread. I had my grinder for over one year now, and, while it's great, I keep wondering whether there is a way to improve the retention behind the anti-static grid. Like many of you, the first thing I did when I bought this grinder was to remove the grid. After a few weeks, I found the static to be quite annoying and resigned to having the grid re-installed, and purge 6g (about 2 sec) before my session, and this has been the case for the past 8 months or so. I really like the results, but I am eager to hear from other owners here as I am not keen on waste.

    I have today email the UK supplier (Bella Barista) and asked whether they could source a couple of those grids so I could experiment, as I don't want to modify/damage my own just in case it doesn't quite work. I'll report back as soon as I hear more.

    I am also interested to know whether anyone has tried to create their own anti-static grid, and would like to share some ideas.

    For info, I have done a mini review of the Profitec t64 on the UK Forums. Just google "Profitec t64 grinder mini review" - it's the first list. Just don't want to paste the link as I am unsure of the forum etiquete/rules.
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    Update on this: Bella Barista will kindly send me the grid so I can experiment on. However, they will send me one, so I unfortunately will not be able to experiment too much. So, there seems to be two possibilities:

    1) As per this thread: Removal of the top/left quadrant of the grid (as per OP picture).
    2) Removal of "two vertical bars", as per comment by @K_Bean_Coffee on here, post #18:

    Mazzer Mini E - simple grid mod

    https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?url...4&share_type=t

    Question: Which version is the most effective?

    This mod is also discussed briefly here:

    Profitec Pro T64 review (2016)

    https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?url...4&share_type=t
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    I too am thinking of modifying my grid, but likewise I'm not sure if the corner or the two center bars are the way to go.
    Keep us updated if you try both!
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    Senior Member Magic_Matt's Avatar
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    Would be great to see some comparative video of grinding with the two mods!

    One thing I've wondered is whether a grid could be installed towards the bottom of the funnel instead of the end of the grind chute. I guess there's a risk of grinds backing up above it, especially if a bit course - but the momentum from the drop would help.

    I've noticed that if I collect the grinds in a container and "decant" into the p/f by pouring back into the chute I get a more even extraction with less chance of channeling (I started doing this to make weighing the dose easier). Grinds are noticeably fluffier with clumps broken up etc.

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    Hi, unfortunately I will only be able to try one version, as I want to leave the original one intact.

    As they only sent me one, I'll have to try what I think it's best, and currently I am inclined to break the top left vertical bar, and then go from there.

    Regarding grid at the bottom of the funnel, I've once tried to put a mesh there to no avail: It just clogs up.

    The grid basically works to compact the grinds as they exit the chute to reduce static. I recall someone here saying that a hinged version would be ideal, however that would not work, as with a clean chute with the grid in place, the grinds will initially fly out, full of static, and gradually build up behind it.

    It is the constant backed-up compressed grinds (imagine a sausage machine) that allow the dose to be more consistent and the grinds to be static free.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pessutojr View Post
    Hi, unfortunately I will only be able to try one version, as I want to leave the original one intact.

    As they only sent me one, I'll have to try what I think it's best, and currently I am inclined to break the top left vertical bar, and then go from there.

    Regarding grid at the bottom of the funnel, I've once tried to put a mesh there to no avail: It just clogs up.

    The grid basically works to compact the grinds as they exit the chute to reduce static. I recall someone here saying that a hinged version would be ideal, however that would not work, as with a clean chute with the grid in place, the grinds will initially fly out, full of static, and gradually build up behind it.

    It is the constant backed-up compressed grinds (imagine a sausage machine) that allow the dose to be more consistent and the grinds to be static free.
    Have you thought about contacting Profitec HQ in Germany & hitting them up for a grid? They might be up for a chat & you might get advice straight from the horses mouth.

    Just a thought. You might just mention folk on two seperate continents are interested in what they recommend.

    Vossen Profitec GmbH
    Leonhardstrasse 64
    78333 Stockach
    Germany
    Tel.: +49 (0) 7771 870880
    Fax: +49 (0) 7771 8708820
    E-Mail: info(at)vossen-profitec.de

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    Senior Member readeral's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pessutojr View Post
    I recall someone here saying that a hinged version would be ideal, however that would not work, as with a clean chute with the grid in place, the grinds will initially fly out, full of static, and gradually build up behind it.
    I said that, and it depends what you're trying to achieve that will determine if it doesn't work or not.. I make my comment knowing full well how the screen works, my hunch is that it'd be suitably effective for some people for some uses.
    Dealing with a bit of static coffee in order to single dose might be perfect for some. For me - it's being able to sweep out the chute after a days worth of use, or at bean changeover, rather than every coffee.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pessutojr View Post
    Hi, unfortunately I will only be able to try one version, as I want to leave the original one intact.

    As they only sent me one, I'll have to try what I think it's best, and currently I am inclined to break the top left vertical bar, and then go from there.

    Regarding grid at the bottom of the funnel, I've once tried to put a mesh there to no avail: It just clogs up.

    The grid basically works to compact the grinds as they exit the chute to reduce static. I recall someone here saying that a hinged version would be ideal, however that would not work, as with a clean chute with the grid in place, the grinds will initially fly out, full of static, and gradually build up behind it.

    It is the constant backed-up compressed grinds (imagine a sausage machine) that allow the dose to be more consistent and the grinds to be static free.
    Yeah, was hoping Pauly might put his cinematographer skills to use on his version of the mod

    Mesh would definitely block the opening; I'm thinking something more open, like the bulldog clip Mazzer mod. I'll have a play when I get time.

    Thinking outside the square, I find grinds sometimes adhere to the cone a little; linking it to the motor via a rod or something so it vibrates while the grinder is running would help, and would probably prevent any buildup behind a grid too.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smee View Post
    Have you thought about contacting Profitec HQ in Germany & hitting them up for a grid? They might be up for a chat & you might get advice straight from the horses mouth.

    Just a thought. You might just mention folk on two seperate continents are interested in what they recommend.

    Vossen Profitec GmbH
    Leonhardstrasse 64
    78333 Stockach
    Germany
    Tel.: +49 (0) 7771 870880
    Fax: +49 (0) 7771 8708820
    E-Mail: info(at)vossen-profitec.de
    Hi,

    I have contacted the UK supplier who happened to have a spare one and will send it to me. Let's start from there.

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    Hey,

    This morning, using my mobile phone, I've decided to film the flow of coffee in slow motion with the unmodified, stock, original version of the grid.

    It dispensed 18g of coffee in 7.4 seconds.

    You can clearly see that the flow is significant slow on the top-left cell of the grid, followed by the adjacent cells immediately to the right and bottom of it.

    My next task today is to summarise the flow rate for each cell, in order to determine the best course of action.

    May I ask the folks following this thread with a modified grid or not to do the same so we can compare flow and work on the best mod?

    Opinions and feedback at this stage highly appreciated and welcome :-)

    Warning: contains flying objects :-)

    Link to video:

    https://youtu.be/ALy_UEb556s

    Credits yo my 9 year old helper who pressed the button. :-)

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    Senior Member readeral's Avatar
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    You'll see my observations up on reply number #25 - and they're largely the same. It's because (as mentioned) of the rotation of the burrs, so all of our experiences will relatively similar I would expect.. hence the JetBlack modification works so well.

    FWIW, they've done extensive testing with a number of grid mods to get it right, so you're welcome to do your own testing, but their modification (as photographed) comes recommended (at least from me!)

    I'm flat out of coffee at the moment (haven't had time to roast - curse summer exams) so I can't post my own video I'm afraid. However, I'd be curious to see a slow mo video of the b modification for comparison with the one I have at some point!
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    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    My first thought was, is that a plug of stale coffee that the grinder has to force into motion, it then seems to be clumping badly, when finished grinding leaving another plug to go stale, imo would have quite an impact on the quality of the shot, I would imagine the grinding chamber would be pretty bogged up as well.

    I would be trying to clean everything up and keeping it clean between shots, not difficult.

    As a matter of interest the flat burr grinder I use dispenses ground coffee into the hopper brilliantly compared to your video, a spray of fines with no clumping at all, and, dead easy and quick to clean up between shots.

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    Profitec Pro 64 - Question on the funnel

    Quote Originally Posted by readeral View Post
    You'll see my observations up on reply number #25 - and they're largely the same. It's because (as mentioned) of the rotation of the burrs, so all of our experiences will relatively similar I would expect.. hence the JetBlack modification works so well.

    FWIW, they've done extensive testing with a number of grid mods to get it right, so you're welcome to do your own testing, but their modification (as photographed) comes recommended (at least from me!)

    I'm flat out of coffee at the moment (haven't had time to roast - curse summer exams) so I can't post my own video I'm afraid. However, I'd be curious to see a slow mo video of the b modification for comparison with the one I have at some point!
    This is very helpful readeral, I wasn't aware that JetBlack did extensive testing on the modification.

    I'd be very curious indeed to see the comparison of the two.

    Thanks for the info, much appreciated.

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    Just for info, got the grid and did the mod. Below it is in slow motion:

    https://youtu.be/_GRNjKWUG4A

    And a picture of the mod:



    It's early days, and I'll experiment a little bit more. I would like to do a few comparisons taste wise with the original grid and with the modded version so see how it differs in the cup.

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    And the closest to the mod as per OP, difference being the bottom left horizontal line has not been split):



    https://youtu.be/4wwU6WLhYXw

    I've pulled two shots so far with this latest mod. Haven't noticed any difference in terms of more or less mess. What I noticed, as expected, is that the grinder is dispensing 1.5g or so more given the same time grind adjustment and time compared to the sock version.

    I'll keep you guys posted.
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    So, this is the verdict for me at least:

    With the stock screen:
    - I found that the coffee is tastier, more full bodied;
    - The flow of grinds coming out of the chute are uneven, so there are more grinds trapped behind the screen in the chute, and who knows when they will end up in the cup;

    - With the stock screen, with the grind set to grind for 7.2 seconds, and with the grind collar at position X, 16g of coffee was dispensed. With the modified screen, it dispensed 18g. With the same dose of 18g, same grind adjustment, the stock screen would yield 36g in 60s, with the modified screen in 40s.

    With the modified screen:
    - Grinds were fluffier;
    - Grinds coming out were evenly distributed throughout the screen;
    - Espresso felt a bit thinner if compared to the stock screen, but the difference is minimal.

    Overall, I am personally keeping the modified version of the screen (as per last picture). I think that's a good compromise for a Home Barista trying find a balance between waste of coffee due to retention, static and flavour in the cup.

    I hope the above is useful.
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  41. #41
    Senior Member Magic_Matt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pessutojr View Post
    So, this is the verdict for me at least:
    <snip>
    I hope the above is useful.
    Very; thank you!

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    ...I take a week or so vacation and this thread just blew up!
    Some amazing info here with detailed observations that has lead to some great discoveries and results.

    Thank you pessutojr !

  43. #43
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    Profitec Pro 64 - Question on the funnel

    So, after owning the V-Titan for about 6 months, I decided to have another go at removing the grid altogether. My hope was that now the burrs are run in, static should be reduced somewhat.



    Result: fluffy, beautiful grinds delivered straight where I wanted them! Well, a tiny amount sticking to the dosing funnel, but no biggie. Sweeping the chute with a brush, I reckon I'm down to well under two grams retention.

    This works nicely with my ghetto dosing and weighing container (a kulfi mould, if you must know...); not sure how it would go with dosing directly into the portafilter. Could go errywhere...

    I stupidly changed filter basket AND beans at the same time, but found that I needed a much finer grind than previously. But since I switched from my old 20g Synesso double to a Pesado "22" that swallows 25g and asks for more, who knows how much that has to do with removing the grid. After a few absolute gushers, dialled back in now.

    [edit: most] of the benefits of single dosing with the convenience of a timed grinder?

    Yes please!
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    Profitec Pro 64 - Question on the funnel

    @Magic_Matt, you may want to try this:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPao49FNfX4

    My experience was similar to yours: If you remove the grid, you have to grind finer. Apparently this is due to the coffee fines getting stuck to the funnel and not making their way into the final dose, and also not getting mixed.

    Also, your figure of ~ 2g tallies up with the amount of coffee I found in the burr chamber last time I cleaned the grinder: 1.4g.

    A good thing about this grinder is that it has some sort of sweeping arms that keep the burr chamber nicely clean.

    PS: This is a video I came across. It's not mine, although I have the same grinder. :-)
    Last edited by MediumRoastSteam; 2nd March 2017 at 05:46 PM. Reason: Added PS note stating it's not my video.
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  45. #45
    Life-long Learner DesigningByCoffee's Avatar
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    I think if you're single dosing this too requires much finer grinding. With the Robur my normal setting for espresso with a full hopper and grid in place is around 7. Single dosing grid out – 4.5
    I imagine the grid creates some back-pressure (to use a car term!) which slows the beans through the grind path, allowing them to be chomped more consistently.

    FWIW, I think flavour suffers a little with a single dosing technique in big grinders for this reason – seems like no back pressure in front / no bean weight on top of the burrs behind gives a less consistent result over all. You can make up for some of the shortcomings by going finer - but I reckon there is a less consistent grind spread. When I do fill mine up for an event and use it as nature intended, I much prefer the flavour results! It's not a deal-breaker (I single dose 99% of the time) but is certainly noticeable.
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  46. #46
    Senior Member Magic_Matt's Avatar
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    Profitec Pro 64 - Question on the funnel

    @pressurojr good thoughts and thanks for the video - interesting to note that some beans remain unground normally.

    I'm not keen on removing the hopper (I'm not truly single-dosing - weigh out but rely on timer mostly). This was actually the equal main motivation for getting this grinder; keep some weight on the burrs while grinding - and reduce the "fiddliness" of my daily routine. Might serve me well for mid-week cleaning though

    I do use a little brush to knock anything adhering to the funnel into my dosing cup (and sweep out the chute).

    @DesigningByCoffee, it so happens I just collected a Kruve from the post office - so I'll experiment and report back shortly!
    Last edited by Magic_Matt; 2nd March 2017 at 05:51 PM.
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    @Magic_Matt, how are you getting on with your grinding routine (without the anti-static screen) after a few months? Inspired by this, I tried the same this morning after owning my T-64 for 1.5 years. It's definitely an option, but I find that the shots just don't taste the same. I find that without the anti-static screen the shots taste rather thin, with very little body. I find that the best compromise (retention vs taste vs mess) is the modded anti-static grind version. What are your thoughts thus far?

  48. #48
    Senior Member Magic_Matt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MediumRoastSteam View Post
    @Magic_Matt, how are you getting on with your grinding routine (without the anti-static screen) after a few months? Inspired by this, I tried the same this morning after owning my T-64 for 1.5 years. It's definitely an option, but I find that the shots just don't taste the same. I find that without the anti-static screen the shots taste rather thin, with very little body. I find that the best compromise (retention vs taste vs mess) is the modded anti-static grind version. What are your thoughts thus far?
    Can't say I've done enough back-to-back testing to really compare - and I guess without two identical grinders that would be virtually impossible due to the recalibration needed 🤔

    One thing I have noted is wild fluctuations in shot quality and flow as the hopper nears empty; probably enough to make it worthwhile replacing the grid and accepting the daily waste of a couple of grammes, as presently I'm effectively wasting the last 20 and getting suboptimal results from the shot prior to that...

    I guess the profi/ecm are designed to work with the grid in place... shame as it is really satisfying for my borderline OCD to sweep that chute clean!
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  49. #49
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic_Matt View Post

    One thing I have noted is wild fluctuations in shot quality and flow as the hopper nears empty;
    Morning Matt, do you store your beans in the grinder hopper?
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  50. #50
    Senior Member Magic_Matt's Avatar
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    Profitec Pro 64 - Question on the funnel

    Quote Originally Posted by Yelta View Post
    Morning Matt, do you store your beans in the grinder hopper?
    I could bang on about that for a while, but the short answer is about a day's worth, then I top it up each morning. The idea being to keep weight on the burrs while grinding, without allowing beans going stale.

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