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Thread: Guide to Roasting...

  1. #1
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    Guide to Roasting...

    Hey guys...

    Forgot to mention in previous posts but one thing that may help some of you with your roasting. You will see posted around the traps that a lot of emphasis is put on 1st crack, what time in happens and how long after before you dump etc etc. This is all important but dont worry too much on the timing of when this happens as it really is just when the beans get to a certain temperature...you can make it happen at all sorts of times, there is no right or wrong way only that it will have an effect on the roast and that you should explore these differences in order to come to your own conclusions. You might hear that 1st crack has to be at this time or within this time etc etc. If you believe this without really understanding it then you are limiting your opportunities for exploration. What is more important is how you got there.

    A lot of emphasis is put on post 1st crack and extending it out but dont under estimate what is happening before 1st crack as this is what leads up to caramalisation and Maillards. Different types of sugars are produced at different temps mostly before the beans have really browned so as I mentioned before this can impact the roast. Remember that they are both reacting with the heat and also that Maillards needs reducing sugars and amino acids to accur and give off those flavours and aromas.

    Just dont like seeing people get too worried about having to hit things in certain time limits as it does freak the new roasters out. Its not that unusual for commercial roasters to have roast times over 30 mins...there is an argument for slower roasting (does not mean baking) so you may find some results you like by extending it out more (not suggestign to this extreme). Coffee beans only have small amounts of moisture (10-12%) so its probably best to go slower at the start before 1st crack before the beans are too dry. If you go to long after 1st crack you might end up with a brittle, light and tasteless bean.

    Quote Originally Posted by 6D6A6B7D7D771E0 link=1277375158/67#67 date=1280153396
    So far finding it difficult to stretch time between first crack and second crack in a controlled way, but practice should see this improve.first crack seems to go on for up to 2 minutes leading into second crack (hard to tell this with little experience of this roaster so far).
    Try switching the flame off once a bit into 1st crack and you will slow the process and if you need to speed it up later on just turn it back on. Its only a small chamber so the changes will happen fairly quickly. What you are doing is really good so far. Once the beans are hot enough they will have enough thermal mass to keep climbing by themselves so dont be afraid to switch off the heat at points all together.

    Cheers

    TL1000s likes this.

  2. #2
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    Re: Guide to Roasting...

    Copied this excellent information from a post by Mark in "Roasters". Thought it was too good not to pin up here.... 8-)

    Mal.

  3. #3
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    Re: Guide to Roasting...

    for How long/ what time it happen to first crack on the bean?
    and What should I do when finish roasting, should I keep it in the refrigerator?

  4. #4
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    Re: Guide to Roasting...

    Quote Originally Posted by 636F666665656D616C616E67000 link=1280212804/2#2 date=1282568985
    for How long/ what time it happen to first crack on the bean?
    and What should I do when finish roasting, should I keep it in the refrigerator?

    " Depending on the origin of the bean"
    I try to get 1st crack at around 9 minutes to 13 minutes & an extra 6 to 8 minutes to second crack

    Beans need to be cooled quickly after roasting (fan cooling works best)
    Beans also need to be degassed or given a rest time to stabilise the chemical change that has just taken place, this process can take from one day to 10+ days (depending on the bean type)

    Storage of roasted beans I feel is best in mylar coffee bags that have a one way valve fitted
    Then stored in a cool dry cupboard

    Roasted Coffee Beans are a perishable item.
    That means they go stale, for this reason, roasted beans need to be consumed quickly as the optimum flavour is best tasted in a 5 week period and in many bean types *before 3 weeks

    KK

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    Re: Guide to Roasting...

    If you are brand new to roasting - can you use a popcorn roaster for your coffee? (Heard it from a friend) And if thats the case how can you prolong the time from first crack to second crack?

    Thanks
    Giff

  6. #6
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    Re: Guide to Roasting...

    Quote Originally Posted by 7A545B5B040A3D0 link=1280212804/4#4 date=1295313871
    If you are brand new to roasting - can you use a popcorn roaster for your coffee? (Heard it from a friend) And if thats the case how can you prolong the time from first crack to second crack?

    Thanks
    Giff
    Yes you can.

    Theres plenty of different ways; do a search.
    If you get stuck, report back.

  7. #7
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    Re: Guide to Roasting...

    [split] [link=http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1212551544/39#39][splithere][/link][splithere_end]

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    Re: Guide to Roasting...

    I am struggling to understand sometimes after I rest my beens for 3 - 6 days the flavour is great doing everything I am hoping for but the crema seems thin.

    Its great for texturing milk based coffees but as an espresso a little short on viscosity.

    Do I need a bit more heat leading up to first crack?

    Am I ramping to much and the inside not heating a rate which highlights the oils enough?

    My blend has 50% nat pulped Brazil, so I am struggling to see my issue.


    brettreaby likes this.

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    Re: Guide to Roasting...

    Ive seen guys using chilled cookie sheets to spread the beans out after they shake off the chaff. I hope that would work well too.

  10. #10
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    Re: Guide to Roasting...

    Quote Originally Posted by 282828282829420 link=1280212804/7#7 date=1329289219
    I am struggling to understand sometimes after I rest my beens for 3 - 6 days the flavour is great doing everything I am hoping for but the crema seems thin.

    Its great for texturing milk based coffees but as an espresso a little short on viscosity.

    Do I need a bit more heat leading up to first crack?

    Am I ramping to much and the inside not heating a rate which highlights the oils enough?

    My blend has 50% nat pulped Brazil, so I am struggling to see my issue.

    Are you certain that it is your coffee and not the extraction that is causing the lack of crema? Otherwise, perhaps whatever youre storing your coffee in is not well sealed and the beans are degassing too rapidly and oxidising? Particularly with brasilian coffees, I think if youre roasting the coffee at all in the ballpark it should produce plenty of crema.

  11. #11
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    Re: Guide to Roasting...

    folks, is there a guide for newbys when it comes to roasting, this all looks a bit daunting, 1st crack, 2nd crack and so on is that C1 and C2? see what i mean, i have no idea. what i need is a guide leading to a result, what i am trying to do, what to watch for, hear and smell. cheers, steve

  12. #12
    Senior Member fatboy_1999's Avatar
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    Re: Guide to Roasting...

    Quote Originally Posted by 736A727A717E6D661F0 link=1280212804/10#10 date=1335061377
    folks, is there a guide for newbys when it comes to roasting, this all looks a bit daunting, 1st crack, 2nd crack and so on is that C1 and C2? see what i mean, i have no idea. what i need is a guide leading to a result, what i am trying to do, what to watch for, hear* and smell.* cheers, steve
    I daresay there are a number of threads around that go through the process.
    What YOU are looking for depends on what you are planning to use for your roasting.
    Usually, poppers are going to reach the point of 1st crack / 2nd crack a bit faster than some other methods.

    1st crack - sometimes likened to the sound of matchsticks being broken. Happens when... Oh a whole lot of things really, but the simplest answer is "When the bean mass reaches a certain temperature".

    Rolling 1st crack - when 1st crack is rapid (happening to many beans at once)

    2nd crack - sometimes likened to the sound of cellophane being rustled. Most of us try to get some time gap between 1st and 2nd. Some of us try not to reach 2nd crack as it might be too dark a roast for a specific bean or personal tastes.

    Rolling 2nd crack - rapid.

    Generally speaking, the further you go into rolling 2nd, then the darker and oilier the result will be.

    When starting out, I think it is good to take a batch deep into 2nd and then do one just on 2nd and compare them through the week.

    The main thing that YOU are after though is... how does it taste?

    As for C1 and C2, not sure. Could mean 1st and 2nd crack. We also have a roast colour system that refers to the CoffeeSnobs membership card. It has 12 levels of roast colour on it and many of us will refer to a roast as being CS9 or something like that.

    Hope this helps, but have a search and see what you can find. Main thing is - jump in and have a go. Thats how most of us got started.

    Brett.

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    Re: Guide to Roasting...

    thanks for your time here Brett, i guess i dont enjoy doing things by halves, i would like to know the theory behind it as well, so i have some homework to do and i clearly look forward to it. also i will wait for my Behmor to arrive, no doubt they have a guide of sorts as well.
    i will be roasting to suite my taste with PNG as i add milk to the mix, i have found that my pav pro tends to lend itself to PNG:)
    Willygoat likes this.

  14. #14
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    Re: Guide to Roasting...

    Thanks for the practical tips on this thread.

    Roasted 300g each of "Special K" and Brisilian Natural this afternoon.

    Now up to roast #15 Im some thing are starting to make more sense. I managed to stretch FIRST crack out to around the 10 min mark, and SECOND out till about 7 mins later.

    To slow it down, Im using a lower setting on my TO - 225, and burping at appropriate times. Results seem good, but only time and tasting will tell.

    Looking toward getting a data logger now...


  15. #15
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    [QUOTE=tuli;431908perhaps whatever youre storing your coffee in is not well sealed and the beans are degassing too rapidly and oxidising?.[/QUOTE]

    CAn anyone link me to a thread or article that talks about degassing in more depth ?

  16. #16
    Senior Member Dennis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grapsta View Post
    CAn anyone link me to a thread or article that talks about degassing in more depth ?
    I recommend the book, "Espresso Coffee, The Science of Quality". It has a page or so on the subject. It is not the type of book most people would pick up and read from cover to cover. It is packed with technical, and to my mind, interesting and valuable information.

  17. #17
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    Thanks Brett. I have been searching for this information. Looking at starting to roast my own coffee beans. No I need to decide what roaster

  18. #18
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    Because I failed in roasting this week, I will copy and save these excellent guidelines in roasting coffee beans. Thank you for sharing this, it really appreciated.
    Dimal likes this.

  19. #19
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    hey guys and girls . I might sounds like a total newb ( and that's because I will be) I'm looking into the practicality of investing in a behmor and starting to home roast myself , I love the thought of fresh beans to start my day . I try to buy fresh from local roasters and suppliers in my area but why not cut out the middle man and have fun doing it .

    My question is , I know I can make small batches for my private use , but if and when I have enough experience to make a few light to dark roasts , if I wanted to give samplers to my caffeinated friends could I vac seal bags for freshness or is the one way valve and a week till beans loose that freshness the best option ?

  20. #20
    Senior Member Barry O'Speedwagon's Avatar
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    Zip-locked one-way valve bags are, for most people, perfectly fine for storing beans for 1-4 (or slightly more) weeks. Freshly roasted beans de-gas, so vacuum sealing them using standard home equipment on day one probably isn't a great idea under most circumstances. And, as per the reply in the other thread.....please try to avoid bombing multiple threads with the same post.
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  21. #21
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    Good morning Barry , Sorry for doubling up on the posts just new to the forumns and not sure how the topics are viewed. Yeah I knew that beans degas , was just unsure if vac sealing would prevent this . I think I will just go witht the zip lock bags will be best
    Thanks mate sorry again

  22. #22
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    Nice discussion.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by fatboy_1999 View Post
    I daresay there are a number of threads around that go through the process.
    What YOU are looking for depends on what you are planning to use for your roasting.
    Usually, poppers are going to reach the point of 1st crack / 2nd crack a bit faster than some other methods.

    1st crack - sometimes likened to the sound of matchsticks being broken. Happens when... Oh a whole lot of things really, but the simplest answer is "When the bean mass reaches a certain temperature".

    Rolling 1st crack - when 1st crack is rapid (happening to many beans at once)

    2nd crack - sometimes likened to the sound of cellophane being rustled. Most of us try to get some time gap between 1st and 2nd. Some of us try not to reach 2nd crack as it might be too dark a roast for a specific bean or personal tastes.

    Rolling 2nd crack - rapid.

    Generally speaking, the further you go into rolling 2nd, then the darker and oilier the result will be.

    When starting out, I think it is good to take a batch deep into 2nd and then do one just on 2nd and compare them through the week.

    The main thing that YOU are after though is... how does it taste?

    As for C1 and C2, not sure. Could mean 1st and 2nd crack. We also have a roast colour system that refers to the CoffeeSnobs membership card. It has 12 levels of roast colour on it and many of us will refer to a roast as being CS9 or something like that.

    Hope this helps, but have a search and see what you can find. Main thing is - jump in and have a go. Thats how most of us got started.

    Brett.
    Love your philosophy on roasting FatBoy ! It was daunting at first but the reality is if it goes pear shaped it's only a couple of bucks worth of beans , jump in and have another go !

  24. #24
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    Hi all - new to this site but really enjoying it and as a novice when it comes to home roasting I thought I would share my experiences so far.
    I built a roaster using this example I found on Pinterest

    https://au.pinterest.com/pin/265501340509631584/

    It works well and is an easy to use , hand on solution. The green beans I am ordering from here are taking me on a coffee adventure. Would prefer smaller batches so I can try more of them though! 2.5kg is quite a bit to get through for each bean I try.

    Anyway , I have been using this roaster for a few weeks now and am slowly learning how to tweak the temp, especially after first crack. To start with I used one setting all the way through to second crack , the highest heat and fan setting. I wasnt too happy with the results from the CS10\CS11 roasts so I tried going down to the lower fan setting after first crack and taking it to second crack over a longer period. This has resulted in a more rounded and smoother end result.

    So much fun to roast this way , really enjoying it!

    Anyone else got homemade set ups they can tell me about? I am planning on another build soon to roast larger volumes.

    Cheers!

  25. #25
    Senior Member skidquinn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dalecjr View Post
    Hi all - new to this site but really enjoying it and as a novice when it comes to home roasting I thought I would share my experiences so far.
    I built a roaster using this example I found on Pinterest

    https://au.pinterest.com/pin/265501340509631584/

    It works well and is an easy to use , hand on solution. The green beans I am ordering from here are taking me on a coffee adventure. Would prefer smaller batches so I can try more of them though! 2.5kg is quite a bit to get through for each bean I try.

    Anyway , I have been using this roaster for a few weeks now and am slowly learning how to tweak the temp, especially after first crack. To start with I used one setting all the way through to second crack , the highest heat and fan setting. I wasnt too happy with the results from the CS10\CS11 roasts so I tried going down to the lower fan setting after first crack and taking it to second crack over a longer period. This has resulted in a more rounded and smoother end result.

    So much fun to roast this way , really enjoying it!

    Anyone else got homemade set ups they can tell me about? I am planning on another build soon to roast larger volumes.

    Cheers!
    Hello mate - i'm also very new to home roasting and started with a popper. Have recently put together what this site (and hence many others) refer to as a Corretto roaster. Spend some time reading about this if you haven't already. My set up cost about 60 bucks all up and the results are pretty awesome. I've roasted a max of 700 grams, but I've read others have roasted 1kg.
    cheers

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidquinn View Post
    Hello mate - i'm also very new to home roasting and started with a popper. Have recently put together what this site (and hence many others) refer to as a Corretto roaster. Spend some time reading about this if you haven't already. My set up cost about 60 bucks all up and the results are pretty awesome. I've roasted a max of 700 grams, but I've read others have roasted 1kg.
    cheers
    Nice one - I will check it out asap - could be the next project I am looking for! Cheers mate

  27. #27
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    Hmm, I have a Cafe Gene and having a bad case of Industrial Deafness it's impossible hear the cracks 1st and 2nd, so any suggestions as to temp and minutes for an average roast or just go by eye?

  28. #28
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    Just starting out with gene cafe.
    Preheating to 200 deg. By the time the beans are loaded the temp is back to about 110.
    Today I did a 230g batch of Yirg. (Got 197g out).

    set for 240. Takes about 10 mins to reach back to that. Stopped it at 14 mins. Cooling cycle. 3 mins then into a great fan thing that the CSer who sold it to me made.

    ive followed this profile a couple of times now and it's worked well.

    I struggle to hear 1 st crack with this bean, I look for flying chaff too.
    The brazil yellow bourbon makes a clearer sound.
    I can't hear 2nd crack on my roasts, yet.

    btw I used the same profile for the brazil yesterday. I'll need to adjust accordingly next time I'm sure.

  29. #29
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    Hi KK

    One thing that I was taught many years ago when I first started to roast my own green beans, was after roasting and bagging, to make sure they rest for up to 5 days for degassing. But later and now I read so much about from 1 day to 10+ days depending on the bean.

    One thing is, a prize to the person who can give a list of bean names and time after roasting for every bean on the list for time after degassing it is drinkable. Not being facetious or trying to flippant but no where on the internet can I find anything that tells me anything about what time for this bean or that bean needs to be adhered to for degassing purposes. It would be a blessing if there was such a list of all beans and the prime time for brewing after degassing. But till I find one I'll stick to my 5 days, as it's worked ok for me over the years.

    Cheers
    Stuart

  30. #30
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    A list showing how long each bean origin has to rest after roasting to be at optimum flavor? I think not. That's because the same bean can be ready in 1 day or 2+ weeks depending on the varietal and origin of the bean, how it was stored as a green bean, how long since it was harvested, the roasting profile, how dark a roast, how it was stored post roast, the consistency of the grind, and how the coffee is being brewed. Those are just the ones I can think of off the top of my head.

    Pick a bean you like. Roast it to a degree you like. Then test it over time until you find when it tastes best for you. Record everything so you can repeat it all.


    Java "Wash, rinse, and repeat!" phile
    Toys! I must have new toys!!!

  31. #31
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    What's the prize?
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  32. #32
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    I have found that most beans have a sweet rested spot so to speak and as i don't roast too many varieties at this stage the beans I do roast are generally ready to grind and drink after 3/5 days. Though most are nicer around day 5. IMHO.
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  33. #33
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    One of life's great pleasures tasting your roasts as they develop over a period of time, subtle little changes and nuances--priceless!!!
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  34. #34
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    I am doing stove top roasting in a smallish (200 mm) frying pan. I use an induction cooker that offers temperature adjustment. Starting out on what the cooker shows as 120C, vigorously stirring with a bamboo "spade', first crack comes up after 3 min or so and by 13 min a number of the beans are black and shiny, most are apparently out of first crack and a lot of smoke is emitted, so I go outside and pour the beans between two receptacles in the breeze. By about 15 min all is done and the beans are just sort of warm to the touch - slightly above 40, I think.

    The result does not taste bad at all (roasting was done on the 18th), but the crema is quite unimpressive. I had a blend of Brazilian and Rwanda from a roaster in another town in the grinder but with my roast I had to tighten the grind a bit. Brazilian beans. Is this normal?

  35. #35
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    Behmor Coffee Roaster
    Quote Originally Posted by LouisF View Post
    I am doing stove top roasting in a smallish (200 mm) frying pan. I use an induction cooker that offers temperature adjustment. Starting out on what the cooker shows as 120C,
    If it is a cheapish bench-top single induction plate you might be better off with a gas flame. Those induction plates settings below 1000w still put 1000w into the pan but cycle the heat on and off at different rates depending on the setting you choose, In my experience this leads to more scorching then you would expect. The coil is small so only a small spot in the middle of the pan gets hot and I have tried stainless and cast iron pans. If you have a camp stove or a BBQ with a hotplate on the side that would be ideal In my opinion(also outside so no smoke problems). But maybe you have a fancy induction cook-top that is actually good.

    You sound like your not recording temperature have you tried weighing the beans before and after to measure % of weight to lost give you a way to measure how consistent you roasts are from each other?

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