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Thread: Critique needed

  1. #1
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    Critique needed

    Hi,

    New to the roasting and it is a super steep learning curve!

    Been trying to roast for both filter and espresso. However one of the coffees I have been roasting is a Tanzanian which I understand is high in acidity but good fruity flavours. I roasted the filter to FC +40 seconds and it turned out a treat. However roasting for the espresso just to the first snap of SC I am getting way too much acidity. I have kept a linear profile on the rate of rise of the bean.....

    .....should I try flattening out the rate of rise after FC? Maybe roasting a little aggressively (the heat control is very very touchy...having a little difficulty getting used to it)?

    In any case - your thoughts on the following profile would be appreciated.

    Also attached is an Indian Bibi I roasted for filter - it seemed to roast a lot more easily and soaked up the heat gently instead of running away....
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  2. #2
    Life-long Learner DesigningByCoffee's Avatar
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    Hi an3_bolt
    What are you roasting on/with?
    Your first and third curves look like a good shape - but a bit short for Espresso IMHO. I aim for a very similar profile 'shape' - but much longer duration. Most of my Ethiopian/Tanz roasts are about the 16-17 minute marks - yours seem about 10-11. The longer, gentler roasts seem to get deeper into the bean and roast out that excess acidity, giving a smoother, sweeter more cocoa flavour. Whenever I've tried reducing down sub 15 mins it gets too bright for a doppio for my tastes.
    Cool software app - what is it?
    Matt

  3. #3
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    Roasting on a 2kg drum.
    The first profile was for an espresso - the other 2 for filter.
    Just pulled a shot of one I roasted yesterday which was the Indian (similar profile to the Bibi attached) but dragged out a little with FC at 11 and finishing at first snaps of SC at 14m45s. Pretty much linear profile and no flattening out. Super great chocolate but still lots of acidity. Should I be trying to flatten it out a lot more from the FC holding the FC at around the 10/11min mark and drag first snap of SC out to 16 for an espresso? Some of my ones for filter have worked super well at the shorter roasts - but my espresso is just so acidic......
    Software using is Artisan - got it connected with 2 k type thermocouples to a Center 309 datalogger and a RS232/USB converter to the old Macbook. Kind of figured I really need to record what I am doing accurately to be able to learn what I am doing......
    After reading your post - I went back and tried a bag of a roast i put aside as I thought it might be a bit "baked". Tanzanian dragged out to the 16 min mark - now sitting at about 7 days old. The acidity is markedly reduced, great taste, heaps of chocolate, slight bitter aftertaste.
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    Senior Member insomnispresso's Avatar
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    Matt,
    He's using Artisan, it's ok but I found the CS roast logger performed a lot better on my machine

    an3_bolt,
    As suggested you could try to extend FC10-12mins and extend SC 4-6 minutes. It's worth noting that many commercial roasters have a total time as long as 20-30 mins!! Haven't tried that personally..

    I find even with 10/15 minute first crack/second crack it's still possible to still get quite strong acidity depending on the bean. You have two options besides roast length;
    - roast depth, go deeper into second crack (may cause undesirable flavor profile if you go too far)
    - brew temp, higher temp will mute the acidity. Machine dependent, if you don't have a PID you may be able to flush some water to warm the group. I found some roasts too light to drink could be made workable this way

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    Very much appreciate the assistance.
    Looking forward to a couple of roasts this afternoon - after finish demolishing my bathroom.....

  6. #6
    Life-long Learner DesigningByCoffee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by an3_bolt View Post
    After reading your post - I went back and tried a bag of a roast i put aside as I thought it might be a bit "baked". Tanzanian dragged out to the 16 min mark - now sitting at about 7 days old. The acidity is markedly reduced, great taste, heaps of chocolate, slight bitter aftertaste.
    I've found with that kind of flavour result that I'd stretch out the time to first crack a bit longer (which in my experience reduces acidity further) then dropping the beans slightly earlier (but not necessarily faster - I get that bitter after taste when I push a little too far into second crack).
    I aim for 11-12 mins to the start of first crack - then another 6-7 mins to just before second crack.

    But playing and tasting is the way to do it! This is the way I've built up the background knowledge to play with a profile…
    Matt

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    Thanks again.

    Will report back with more findings and pretty pictures after some more experimenting.

    Cheers

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    OK - next try.....yet to be tasted....
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    Life-long Learner DesigningByCoffee's Avatar
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    Ooooooohhhhh
    Looking nice! Look forward to hearing how it cups!
    Matt

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    Going to get a testing in the morning - did 2 of the Bibi, and one of the Tanzanian. Still trying to get used to the roaster - fine line trying to keep the profile going without stalling or going ballastic. Really touchy on the gas. Now doing 1kg lots as it is just too hard for me with 500g as it runs away too easily in either direction (I don't have the experience to control it).
    in any case - here is the Tanzanian - it has the profile in the background of the Tanzanian that was 7 days ago that had a good taste but the bitter finish (it went into SC + a bit).....stopped this one before SC. The flat bit (but still positive almost 2.5C/min) at FC was where I pulled the gas back 5kpa - and probably only needed 2.5 kpa.........L plates.....rookie....
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    Thats it! I would do a very around 10-11similar profile slightly shorter in 2kg electric running 1-1.5kg - around 10-11/14-15.

    I take that slowdown after fc as a good thing.

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    Just tested the less than 1 day Bibi. That painful acidity is gone! Super juicy chocolate, more chocolate and and finishing with dark chocolate. My wifes palate is a bit more finely tuned - hope she likes it! Going to be interesting to see how it develops over the next couple of days.

    In any case - just want to say thanks for the help and input - and thanks for getting me towards somewhere I can start measuring from. Looking forward to what I was thinking was an awful Tanzanian!

    Cheers

  13. #13
    Life-long Learner DesigningByCoffee's Avatar
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    Exciting news!
    But this is just the beginning - enjoy the ride - all up from here! :-)
    Matt

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    Tanzanian has worked too me thinks - made a super tight and nasty ristretto - very mild acidity and fruitiness through to finish of bittersweet cocoa. Not even 1 day old now. What i was roasting before was undrinkable as an espresso. But don't think I will change a thing on this one! Might have got lucky! Might have to go out and try someone else's to make sure I don't have ESS - Espresso Stockholm Syndrome..........

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    Senior Member insomnispresso's Avatar
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    You're really tempting me to put an order through, haven't tried either of these

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    Senior Member saoye's Avatar
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    an3 what machine are you roasting with? I tried scrolling through the thread but couldn't find any mention.

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    A pre loved 2Kg Has Garanti. Loving the adventure!

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    Senior Member saoye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by an3_bolt View Post
    A pre loved 2Kg Has Garanti. Loving the adventure!
    Wow talk about jumping straight into the deep end! No mucking about with home made roasters or poppers! I guess if u have the money and space then why not.

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    Yes - I learnt something I think is very good from my old man - "do it once and do it properly". It came along at a price I could not refuse - just lucky to be at the right place at the right time. Not necessarily got space or the money! Just the extreme desire for perfection in an ever changing environment...........having said that - my first roast 2 weeks ago went from charge to SC in 3.5 mins!

  20. #20
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    Just thought I would update and thanks for assistance. Been tweeking a little and trying to zero in on something good. Think I may have found it. Done quite a bit of roasting as I am on holidays - found huge taste differences in time from FC to end when roasting to the same Full City+. Interesting one of the better profiles that gave a nicer buttery chocolate was a similar time after FC but to a lower temp. Tried a little experiment to roast lighter for a filter (instead of the shorter more acidic ones that seem to work for me) - but it ended up a smoking great ristretto, fruity and a touch of zing, mild acity finishing to a smooth buttery chocloate. Better than roasting the same profile to FC and then to a Full City+. Still v good with the filter. But this could be just my personal taste (and that of she who must be obeyed).

    I have also noticed a large change in acidity and aftertaste post 7 days (much better).

    I know it is not the cupping room - but the best results have been a similar profile to the filter blending 3/4 Tanzanian with 1/4 Indian Bibi - woking with milk, rissy and long black.

    Cheers
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  21. #21
    Life-long Learner DesigningByCoffee's Avatar
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    That's great to hear!
    The profile looks fabulous, and your cupping notes sound like you achieved a wonderful roast. You can get away with a lot in milk, but if you've nailed a ristretto you must be on the money. You'll taste any little problems in there like a kick in the teeth :-)
    I agree on the resting. All of my roasts I aim to leave 7+ days - it often punches through milk really well about day 9-10, and is much smoother in a ristretto. The hardest thing is having to wait at least two weeks to finish the bag, adjust your profile, then wait to try the results!
    Well done
    Matt

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    Behmor Coffee Roaster
    Also very new , I copied a roast chart and some don't even get to second crack, also depends on coffee bean with an endless vat of learning to be done, so many opinions . Im noting the moisture content when I buy new beans and maybe drop them at a lower temp

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