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Thread: Behmor Plus - Roasting Approaches

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by pyrmontboy200 View Post
    Circada thanks for the input, I will try your full power to P3 method. I'm curious what is your chosen brew method? Also wondering if you would post a photo of a batch you've recently done?
    I use a Rocket Giotto V2 to make up flat whites or cappuccino's. Usually 170 to 220mls Grind using MacapM4D. I used to roast to try and and just make or just get into C2 but now I just let my 3.10 run out and really enjoying the beans just prior to C2. Seems to be working at the moment.
    Currently roasting 300g I now never vary this amount! Peru/PNG Waghi and trying 100g of anything else that's in the cupboard. Have included pic of latest roast today with 100g of Guatamalan Huehuetenango in the mix. Tried quite a few African beans and they all seem to work as part of this blend. The only bean that I have not been able to master yet is the Indian Monsoon.
    IMG_3193.JPG
    Cicarda
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  2. #52
    Senior Member sprezzatura's Avatar
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    Hey, we should talk - I'm into my 10th kilo of green throughput in my Behmor 1600 + and have yet to see any centreline scorching; some tipping at first but not anymore.

    I've (so far) roasted:

    Indian Elephant Hills
    PNG Mt. Ambra (my fav.!)
    Colombian Volcan Galeras
    Sulawesi Blue

    ImageUploadedByTapatalk1443856837.274149.jpg

    Image of Sulawesi roasted this morning:
    200g @ P1, first crack A178, RS and P2 until timeout/cooling.
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  3. #53
    Senior Member sprezzatura's Avatar
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    Addendum: my power supply is good. I have new wiring and 240+VAC at the power point.

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cicarda View Post
    I use a Rocket Giotto V2 to make up flat whites or cappuccino's. Usually 170 to 220mls Grind using MacapM4D. I used to roast to try and and just make or just get into C2 but now I just let my 3.10 run out and really enjoying the beans just prior to C2. Seems to be working at the moment.
    Currently roasting 300g I now never vary this amount! Peru/PNG Waghi and trying 100g of anything else that's in the cupboard. Have included pic of latest roast today with 100g of Guatamalan Huehuetenango in the mix. Tried quite a few African beans and they all seem to work as part of this blend. The only bean that I have not been able to master yet is the Indian Monsoon.
    IMG_3193.JPG
    Cicarda
    I've got some Monsoon coming: I'll post some images and a report of my attempt(s).

  5. #55
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    Some attempts to roast Monsoon. Cant really say I have nailed it

    Bean type: Blend 333M Peru Ceja de Selva Estate (100g) PNG Waghi AA (100g) Indian Monsoon (100g)
    Start weight: 300g
    End weight: 251g
    Profile: 1lb P2 B total time 20.00min 100% @ 10min
    Roast depth: C9.5
    Warmup: None
    1st Crack time: 7.26 min; hit rosetta to give 3.10 on clock and drop to 75% :rolling stopped at 1.30min
    2nd Crack time: 1.00min
    Time when hit cool button: 1.00min to go
    Additional notes: rolled into C2 not much quiet time. Day 10 not much happening yet.

    Bean type: Monsoon Mix 2 Tanzania Machare Estate (150g) Sumatran Blue (100g) Indian Monsoon (50g)
    Start weight: 300g
    End weight: 249g
    Profile: 1lb P3 B total time 20.00min 75% @10min 100% @ 8min
    Roast depth: C9.0
    Warmup: None
    1st Crack time: 3.10 min; hit rosetta to give 3.10 on clock and drop to 50% :rolling stopped at 1.10min
    2nd Crack time: zero
    Time when hit cool button: Zero
    Additional notes: Ok but nothing out of the box. Cant find that rich crema??

    Bean type: Single Origin Indian Monsoon Malabar Gold (300g)
    Start weight 300g
    End weight: 252g
    Profile: 1lb P2 B total time 20.00min 075% @ 18min 100% at 10min
    Roast depth: CS9.5
    Warmup: zero
    1st Crack time: C1 @5min 40 sec :drop to 50% and set at 3.10min C1 rolled to 1min 30
    2nd Crack time C2 @1.00min
    Time when hit cool button: 50sec
    Total Roast Time: 17min 30sec
    Additional notes: C2 continued for approx 1.30sec Had to start drinking this 1month after roasting. Plenty of flavour, crema and needed finer grind. Good but not great!

    Bean type: Peru Ceja de Selva Estate (200g) Indian Monsoon (100g)
    Start weight: 300g
    End weight: 251g
    Profile: 1lb P3 B total time 20.00min 100% @ 10min
    Roast depth: C9.5
    Warmup: None
    1st Crack time: 3.26 min; hit rosetta to give 3.10 on clock and drop to 50% :rolling stopped at 1.30min
    2nd Crack time: 1.00min
    Time when hit cool button: 45sec to go
    Additional notes: rolled into C2 not much quiet time. Started drinking day 11 need to slow up pour. Gone by day 10 pretty good no real complaints.

    Monsoon seems to launch into second crack very quickly if there is too much heat around.
    Let us know if you crack the secret on the Behmor!
    Cicarda
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  6. #56
    Senior Member sprezzatura's Avatar
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    Thanks, Cicarda! I'll try a 400g Monsoon batch with Sulawesi and a 200g with the Vanuatu and post a summary and some images.

    I'll try a 400gm Monsoon and let it sit at least 10 days and try post blending too.

    Thanks for the heads up with fast progression from first crack to second crack - I'll watch the temperature.

    Cheers,

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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry O'Speedwagon View Post
    Well, P1 and P2 are identical at the start. At the moment I use 400 P2 B to start (just because), switch to 75% with 8 minutes to go, back off to 50% at first crack, and after a minute or so then to 25%. Haven't tried 25% power at first crack as it is usually pretty cold when I'm roasting and don't want to tempt fate. At this time of year I roast 380-390g of green beans on that profile.
    Hey Barry,
    Can i just ask what kind of time your hitting first crack at?

  8. #58
    Senior Member Barry O'Speedwagon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ManBat View Post
    Hey Barry,
    Can i just ask what kind of time your hitting first crack at?
    Sure. It's a little 'iffy' as the weather has been progressively warming up.
    On Sat, I did a 390g roast of Kenyan / Sulawesi Tana Toraja, and FC occured at 5:34 to go (so 14 minutes 26 seconds after start). This was similar to 390g roasts on the previous weekend, but prior to that had been loading 380g with similar time to FC. For my 2nd roast on Saturday I upped the load to 400g of Ethiopia Biftu. That one hit FC at 4:41 to go (15 mins 19 seconds after start).

    Note, I define FC at the point where I hear 2 definite cracks within a couple of seconds of each other.

    At moment, my base profile is: start at 400 P2 B (20 minutes to go on counter). Drop power to 75% at 12 mins to go. Drop to 50% 1 minute after FC (conditional on FC having been 'rolling' for at least 20 seconds....if not, wait a touch). Then, depending on bean, I may drop to 25% 1 minute or so after the drop to 50%. Having tried a few roasts with and without the 25% drop, I'm not sure there's much difference (that I can taste).
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    Thanks Barry. I will be trying this profile with yirgacheffe special prep hopefully with good results.

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by ManBat View Post
    Thanks Barry. I will be trying this profile with yirgacheffe special prep hopefully with good results.
    It should work fine with that bean (regardless of whether you drop to 25% at the end or not). I should have pointed out that I stop the roast just on second crack. No biggie if a little short or a little late.
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    Barry I was wondering what motivated the pre first crack power drop to 75% for you? Presuming you have tried carrying 100% all the way through to FC before - was there something in the cup or a visual defect in your beans which has motivated your approach? Thanks.

  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by pyrmontboy200 View Post
    Barry I was wondering what motivated the pre first crack power drop to 75% for you? Presuming you have tried carrying 100% all the way through to FC before - was there something in the cup or a visual defect in your beans which has motivated your approach? Thanks.
    No brilliant reason. Basically, P2 was my favourite pre-programmed profile, and it drops to 60 (or 65)% power after 60% of the 20 minute standard roast time (i.e. 8 minutes to go). In winter (I'm in Canberra), I was finding this was slowing things down too much, so I decided to manually switch to 75% at the same time as the P2 program would have dropped it to 60-65%. And I found that I liked the results in term of taste (and also consistency in roasting times across different beans). I hadn't tried running 100% through to FC with this profile (but I haven't been roasting that many 'harder' beans recently). With 380-400g loads I wasn't too keen on the idea of cutting power really suddenly. Happy to try however.

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    Cicarda/sprezz those beanshots both look very respectable indeed! I can see your chaff line is much more even than mine. I currently have no issue with Ethiopians, just the Brazilians, and only some of them, are a real problem child for me at the moment. Either baking, that straw, grainy taste of a bean which has been effectively dried by the roaster but not caramelised - hate it - or on the opposite side of the coin where I go flaming into first too hard and scorch the centre lines and get the occasional 'faced' bean. The taste of a scorched bean is particularly disgusting, it is acrid and will ruin a cup of filter easily. Latte drinkers can maybe get away with some of these errors.... but not me. I'm certainly getting an education in how not to roast a coffee bean.

    I am going to try slow things down by adding more weight for these obnoxious Brazilians. sprezz what is your observation in general of the effect of adding more weight? I noticed you seem to be jumping up from 200g to higher charges now. I'll try something like the Cicarda method above, I will cut to P3 during the stretch, still experimenting with this and P2, have not really come up with a conclusion yet. If adding more weight to slow things down doesn't work, I will go back to a taper off of heat going into first.

  14. #64
    Senior Member sprezzatura's Avatar
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    More weight definitely gives one a little more time. Funny, but I've been roasting this Sulawesi on the lighter profiles (or longer dry times?) because, like you, I prefer pour over. I got some cratering when I was doing 200g and 400g batches at high heat profiles with PNG and India Elephant Hills - haven't tried Brasil nor African seeds yet.

    I did try the Galeras Supremo which I had to roast @ P1 and a better batch at P3. Didn't really do it for my palate (which is, as objective as I can be which is not very, keen on Indonesian and African coffee). It was good with the Sulawesi Blue as espresso - sweet and clean. I can't recommend the PNG enough as a filter coffee - loved it.

    When my batch dries too quick my machine and my technique doesn't leave much room to prevent cratering and charring. I opt a bit lighter and will make a cup of Hario 12oz with 18gm letting it bloom for 120 seconds and then a slow pour with water just off the boil.

    The last roast I did (200g of Sulawesi Blue) was at P5D RS @ a three bean crack and P2 until auto cool. Here's an image:ImageUploadedByTapatalk1444040811.510693.jpgImageUploadedByTapatalk1444040830.541287.jpg

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    Senior Member sprezzatura's Avatar
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    ImageUploadedByTapatalk1444041395.641819.jpg

    Interesting mottled appearance - Sulawesi Biru

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    G'day Barry,

    Thanks for sharing, I'm going to give your approach a crack tomorrow.

    Assuming the 400 P2 B 20:00 minute start time, do you usually drop to 75% at 8 minutes to go (12 minutes into the roast) / or 12 minutes to go (8 minutes into the roast)? You mention both approaches in previous posts, so thought I'd check ahead of my first attempt

    I've been having success with Andy's 200g P1 and drop to 25% at FC. But at times, when trying to replicate (trace) back to back roasts, I'm finding the P1 auto mode a little unpredictable as it approaches the 9-10 minute mark (just before FC).
    Usually, 200g P1 seems to run at 100% power until the 5 minute mark, fan comes on, power drops to around 90% (cycles on for 50sec / off for 10sec) for the remaining time until I hit FC and drop to 25% manually. This is working great, but every now and then it decides to throw in a drop to 50% power right before FC, extending my roast by up to a minute. No idea why, might be be to do with the wall sensors. Your approach should eliminate this.

    Pete

  17. #67
    Senior Member Barry O'Speedwagon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pcf1978 View Post
    G'day Barry,

    Thanks for sharing, I'm going to give your approach a crack tomorrow.

    Assuming the 400 P2 B 20:00 minute start time, do you usually drop to 75% at 8 minutes to go (12 minutes into the roast) / or 12 minutes to go (8 minutes into the roast)? You mention both approaches in previous posts, so thought I'd check ahead of my first attempt


    Pete
    Thanks Pete. It's definitely 8 minutes to go (i.e. 12 minutes after start). Post #40 should read as below (can't edit the post anymore):


    Quote Originally Posted by Barry O'Speedwagon View Post
    Initial Setting: 400 P2 B (so the timer starts counting down from 20:00)

    At 8:00 remaining - switch to 75% power (P4 button)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry O'Speedwagon View Post
    Thanks Pete. It's definitely 8 minutes to go (i.e. 12 minutes after start)
    Awesome, thanks for clarifying Barry.
    The weather was a bit nuts in Melbourne today, so hopefully have a go tomorrow.

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    Perfect Melbourne weather today, so got to have a go at the two main approaches in this thread...

    Approach 1

    Bean: Ethiopia Biftu Gesha Sundried
    Start weight: 200g
    End weight: 173g (loss of 13.5%)
    Profile: 200g P1 Start, drop power to 25% at FC
    Data Log: (Blue measuring exhaust temp, and Red is internal)
    15-10-08_200P1Start.jpg

    Approach 2
    Bean: Ethiopia Biftu Gesha Sundried
    Start weight: 390g
    End weight: 335g (loss of 14.1%)
    Profile: 400g P2 B Start drop power to 75% at 12min, then 50% at FC, followed by 25%
    Data Log: (Blue measuring exhaust temp, and Red is internal)
    15-10-08_400P2BStart.jpg


    Results:

    IMG_0014.JPG

    Left: Approach 1
    Right: Approach 2

    Approach 2 ended up a little darker than I was aiming for. But looking forward to the results in 10 days!
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    Yesterday I decided to repeat the above approaches with the last of my Yirgy...

    Approach 1

    Bean: Ethiopia Yirgacheffe Special Prep
    Start weight: 200g
    End weight: 173g (loss of 13.5%)
    Profile: 200g P1 Start, drop power to 25% at FC
    Data Log: (Blue measuring exhaust temp, and Red is internal)
    15-10-10_200P1Start.jpg

    Approach 2
    Bean: Ethiopia Yirgacheffe Special Prep
    Start weight: 390g
    End weight: 335g (loss of 14.1%)
    Profile: 400g P2 B Start drop power to 75% at 12min, then 50% at FC (no drop to 25% this time)
    Data Log: (Blue measuring exhaust temp, and Red is internal)
    15-10-10_400P2BStart.jpg


    Results:

    IMG_0035.JPG

    Left: Approach 1
    Right: Approach 2

    Again, approach 2 is just a tad darker than approach 1.

  21. #71
    Senior Member Barry O'Speedwagon's Avatar
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    That's a very similar weight drop to what I get, pcf1978 (perhaps not as coll an album title as 'Ripper 77' or 'Screamer 76', but your handle will do ). I have been experimenting with a 100% power to FC profile, used only on hard beans (basically Centrals..the Guat. Jacaltenango and and old Nicaraguan Diamond Microlot that needs using), where I drop to 75% at FC, and 50% 1 minute later (with a full 400g load). The results look very good, but I'm not going to be able conduct a fair taste test, as I went out and bought a lever machine (see Achille 0996 thread)....and everything so far tastes great no matter what I do in the brewing process

  22. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry O'Speedwagon View Post
    I have been experimenting with a 100% power to FC profile, used only on hard beans (basically Centrals..the Guat. Jacaltenango and and old Nicaraguan Diamond Microlot that needs using), where I drop to 75% at FC, and 50% 1 minute later (with a full 400g load).
    Hey Barry, with the 400g load and harder beans, did you end up with a similar time to FC as your other profile?

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry O'Speedwagon View Post
    The results look very good, but I'm not going to be able conduct a fair taste test, as I went out and bought a lever machine (see Achille 0996 thread)....and everything so far tastes great no matter what I do in the brewing process
    You lucky so and so... I did notice that

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    Thanks for the info pcf1978. Looking at your charts for Approach 1 I can see your exhaust temp basically flatlines from end of first crack to drop (217.8 -> 217.3). Approach 2 using P3 you go from 218 to 219.8 at drop, for roughly a minute, so call it 2 deg/min increase. This has been my experience in monitoring the A-sensor when using P2, it basically flatlines and doesn't seem to go anywhere after the exothermic kick from first. I know exhaust temp is a bad proxy for bean temperature, but even still, wondering whether this 2-2.5 degrees per minute using P3 post FC is a better idea as this is the minimum RoR we would be targeting to get to second in any reasonable timeframe. Perhaps P2 through FC to stop temp spikes from exothermic, then P3 once we've cleared FC...just an idea?

    I've been experimenting myself with the 75% power from end of drying to FC, then P2 during the stretch and will post my results soon, just waiting for the beans to rest as not a lot going on at the moment three days post roast. I don't even know they may still be duds, one batch is definitely a bit light. However I have solved my scorching problem on the Brazil Daterras using the 75% power application between the bread baking smell at around six minutes or so and FC. So a key learning here for me has been that this part of the roast, end of drying until FC, has a significant impact. My centre lines don't look as charred up now either, and look more like what I see on here, or from a commercial roaster. Most importantly, aesthetics aside, the acrid taste I attributed to the charring has gone completely.
    Last edited by pyrmontboy200; 14th October 2015 at 01:35 PM.
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  24. #74
    Senior Member Barry O'Speedwagon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pcf1978 View Post
    Hey Barry, with the 400g load and harder beans, did you end up with a similar time to FC as your other profile?
    OK. Most recent use of that profile..... 400g of Guatemalen 400 P2 B*. (20 Minute countdown)

    With 8:00 remaining switch to 100% (so this basically keeps the power at 100%, stops the power drop from occurring)
    FC: 4.35 remaining - reduce power to 75%
    Rolling FC: 3:50
    At 3:35 remaining - reduce power to 50%
    1:35 pulled, a few snaps of 2nd crack emerging.

    I repeated this procedure for some Nicaraguan beans, and everything (FC, RFC, Pull) occurred about 50 seconds earlier (was slightly warmer day, beans may not be so 'hard'). I may have pulled this one a touch earlier than I should, but looks good. My neighbour started his mower just after first crack hit, which provided a bit of audio interference.

    *Should get same result from using 400 P1 B, then adding 2 minutes to time at start....I think. In that case you don't need to hit P5 at 8 mins to go.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry O'Speedwagon View Post
    OK. Most recent use of that profile..... 400g of Guatemalen 400 P2 B*. (20 Minute countdown)

    With 8:00 remaining switch to 100% (so this basically keeps the power at 100%, stops the power drop from occurring)
    FC: 4.35 remaining - reduce power to 75%
    Rolling FC: 3:50
    At 3:35 remaining - reduce power to 50%
    1:35 pulled, a few snaps of 2nd crack emerging.

    I repeated this procedure for some Nicaraguan beans, and everything (FC, RFC, Pull) occurred about 50 seconds earlier (was slightly warmer day, beans may not be so 'hard'). I may have pulled this one a touch earlier than I should, but looks good. My neighbour started his mower just after first crack hit, which provided a bit of audio interference.

    *Should get same result from using 400 P1 B, then adding 2 minutes to time at start....I think. In that case you don't need to hit P5 at 8 mins to go.

    I`ve been roasting with a Behmor for a number of years now and have been watching the the threads with interest of the improved options and control of the new Behmor . Question - do your roasted beans taste better ?

  26. #76
    Senior Member Barry O'Speedwagon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nemey View Post
    I`ve been roasting with a Behmor for a number of years now and have been watching the the threads with interest of the improved options and control of the new Behmor . Question - do your roasted beans taste better ?
    Generally, yes (I think). I don't ever have a fair control sample, so that clouds things a little. I believe that I get more 'caramel' notes in most of my roasts, and have had fewer roasts with undesirable attributes. But again, I haven't been conducting anything like a scientific trial

    That's not to say that the base profiles perform poorly.....all I've really been doing is stretching out the time b/w 1st and 2nd crack a little (while dealing with Canberra's rapidly changing weather.......we went from snow to 26 degrees pretty quickly).

  27. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by pyrmontboy200 View Post
    Thanks for the info pcf1978. Looking at your charts for Approach 1 I can see your exhaust temp basically flatlines from end of first crack to drop (217.8 -> 217.3). Approach 2 using P3 you go from 218 to 219.8 at drop, for roughly a minute, so call it 2 deg/min increase. This has been my experience in monitoring the A-sensor when using P2, it basically flatlines and doesn't seem to go anywhere after the exothermic kick from first. I know exhaust temp is a bad proxy for bean temperature, but even still, wondering whether this 2-2.5 degrees per minute using P3 post FC is a better idea as this is the minimum RoR we would be targeting to get to second in any reasonable timeframe. Perhaps P2 through FC to stop temp spikes from exothermic, then P3 once we've cleared FC...just an idea?
    Yeah, I suppose if you were to correlate the exhaust temp with the bean temp then it would appear to be bordering on flat line/stall territory. But I haven't noticed I'll effects in the cup. I've been trying hard NOT to hit second crack the last month or so, instead attempting to drag out first a little longer and dropping within a minute of end of FC. I find this is working well with the Ethiopians, I just prefer them bright and sweet with coco tones at the finish.

    When I experimented with a drop to P3/50% at FC (instead of P2/25%), the roast depth was a little harder to control and as the bean got darker I didn't like the results in the cup as much.

    Your idea is worth trying - might give it a go on the weekend, could be the compromise

    Quote Originally Posted by pyrmontboy200 View Post
    I've been experimenting myself with the 75% power from end of drying to FC, then P2 during the stretch and will post my results soon, just waiting for the beans to rest as not a lot going on at the moment three days post roast. I don't even know they may still be duds, one batch is definitely a bit light. However I have solved my scorching problem on the Brazil Daterras using the 75% power application between the bread baking smell at around six minutes or so and FC. So a key learning here for me has been that this part of the roast, end of drying until FC, has a significant impact. My centre lines don't look as charred up now either, and look more like what I see on here, or from a commercial roaster. Most importantly, aesthetics aside, the acrid taste I attributed to the charring has gone completely.
    How good is that!
    I Agree, I think that being able to manually adapt the ramp to FC is really key for both roast control past FC and repeatability on the Behmor.

  28. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry O'Speedwagon View Post
    OK. Most recent use of that profile..... 400g of Guatemalen 400 P2 B*. (20 Minute countdown)

    With 8:00 remaining switch to 100% (so this basically keeps the power at 100%, stops the power drop from occurring)
    FC: 4.35 remaining - reduce power to 75%
    Rolling FC: 3:50
    At 3:35 remaining - reduce power to 50%
    1:35 pulled, a few snaps of 2nd crack emerging.

    I repeated this procedure for some Nicaraguan beans, and everything (FC, RFC, Pull) occurred about 50 seconds earlier (was slightly warmer day, beans may not be so 'hard'). I may have pulled this one a touch earlier than I should, but looks good. My neighbour started his mower just after first crack hit, which provided a bit of audio interference.

    *Should get same result from using 400 P1 B, then adding 2 minutes to time at start....I think. In that case you don't need to hit P5 at 8 mins to go.
    Thanks for the extra info Barry, will have to dig out some hard beans and give it a try!

    On a side note: Looking at the data log from my last 2 attempts at your profile using 400 P2 B. The Behmor clearly holds 100% power for 7min and 30sec, fan kicks in, then the heater elements cycle on/off (on for 30sec / off for 10sec) until I manually override by pressing P4 (75%) at 12min. This creates a very smooth declining ROR (exhaust temp) to FC. Will be interesting to see how the 100% to FC looks when I try it with some hard beans and 400g charge.

    Getting close to finally being able to pull some shots with the beans I roasted using your profile!

  29. #79
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    Behmor Plus - Roasting Approaches

    Pretty new to the roasting myself cheers for the thread. Tried the below today suggested in earlier post

    380g beans. Brazil Bom Jesus*
    P1
    FC 15min
    P2
    SC 16.30
    Cool

    One thing that isn't clear to me from these posts is what roast are you striking for? Medium? If you want to do a lighter roast do you cut it short of P2? How do you ensure that you are not under developing the bean for a light roast. I had one which was clearly underdeveloped (I got caught out by the unattended function, I'm still not 100% sure how you stop it other than pressing C).

    *free with toaster from talk coffee I know no more about the bean

    ImageUploadedByTapatalk1445060709.807759.jpg

  30. #80
    Senior Member Barry O'Speedwagon's Avatar
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    Hi Davewilton,

    You can only stop the roaster by hitting 'C'*, but you can hasten the cooling by propping the door open and blowing a fan into the chamber (best to wait for end of second crack).

    1.30 between first and second crack doesn't sound right for a 380g load. Should be around the 3 mins give or take (possibly a bit less for 380g in warm weather).

    You can certainly stop before second crack, but this should be after first crack has clearly stopped. If you are roasting for espresso based drinks, I wouldn't aim at stopping too far before second crack.

    Unfortunately the beans in photo don't look like they will get on well with an espresso machine, but no harm trying

    Cheers

    *I'm not talking about emergency stops.
    Last edited by Barry O'Speedwagon; 17th October 2015 at 05:37 PM.

  31. #81
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    Behmor Plus - Roasting Approaches

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry O'Speedwagon View Post
    Hi Davewilton,

    You can only stop the roaster by hitting 'C'*, but you can hasten the cooling by propping the door open and blowing a fan into the chamber (best to wait for end of second crack).

    1.30 between first and second crack doesn't sound right for a 380g load. Should be around the 3 mins give or take (possibly a bit less for 380g in warm weather).

    You can certainly stop before second crack, but this should be after first crack has clearly stopped. If you are roasting for espresso based drinks, I wouldn't aim at stopping too far before second crack.

    Unfortunately the beans in photo don't look like they will get on well with an espresso machine, but no harm trying

    Cheers

    *I'm not talking about emergency stops.
    Thanks Barry perhaps I did stop it too early. Thought I heard signs of second crack and got a whisp of black smoke so thought that was time to kill it. It wasn't the first crack of first crack if you know what I mean, it was when the intensity really increased and I was probably getting 4 cracks a second or similar. It was my first attempt at a larger batch size. First crack had definitely finished.

    With regards to hitting C it doesn't seem to stop the roaster it adds more time. I thought this was the Rossetta stone function. I've found once it is the only way I can get the roaster to continue once the unintended function kicks in, ie less than two minutes to go. I don't actually want to stop the roaster I want it to continue.

    Thanks for your help

    Probably should have put something in for colour context. Commercially roasted beens from talk coffee on the left
    ImageUploadedByTapatalk1445066555.353078.jpg

  32. #82
    Senior Member Barry O'Speedwagon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davewilton View Post
    Thanks Barry perhaps I did stop it too early. Thought I heard signs of second crack and got a whisp of black smoke so thought that was time to kill it. It wasn't the first crack of first crack if you know what I mean, it was when the intensity really increased and I was probably getting 4 cracks a second or similar. It was my first attempt at a larger batch size. First crack had definitely finished.

    With regards to hitting C it doesn't seem to stop the roaster it adds more time. I thought this was the Rossetta stone function. I've found once it is the only way I can get the roaster to continue once the unintended function kicks in, ie less than two minutes to go. I don't actually want to stop the roaster I want it to continue.

    Thanks for your help

    Probably should have put something in for colour context. Commercially roasted beens from talk coffee on the left
    ImageUploadedByTapatalk1445066555.353078.jpg
    Sorry mate, I assumed you meant C = COOL.

    I don't use the Rosetta Stone function (just personal choice). I hit COOL (remembering that you are operating about 20 seconds ahead of peak bean temperature).

  33. #83
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    Thanks davewilton. How do they taste? I normally cup my roasts against whatever commercial roast I happen to have around the place. That generally helps me to highlight deficiencies or defects in my roast and work on those. I've had a hard time with Brazils in the Behmor, so very keen to hear the results of any experimentation you do. The only partial success I've had with Brazil beans that I've tried is by slowing things right down, mentioned up the thread.

  34. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by davewilton View Post
    With regards to hitting C it doesn't seem to stop the roaster it adds more time. I thought this was the Rossetta stone function. I've found once it is the only way I can get the roaster to continue once the unintended function kicks in, ie less than two minutes to go. I don't actually want to stop the roaster I want it to continue.
    Hi Dave,

    When the unintended function kicks in, simply hit "START" to continue the roast, leaving the time remaining unchanged.

    Hitting "C" (Rosetta Stone function) will adjust the time remaining in the following manner based on your starting weight selection:
    100g - 1:30 minutes
    200g - 2:10 minutes
    400g - 3:10 minutes

    Pete

  35. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by pyrmontboy200 View Post
    Thanks davewilton. How do they taste? I normally cup my roasts against whatever commercial roast I happen to have around the place. That generally helps me to highlight deficiencies or defects in my roast and work on those. I've had a hard time with Brazils in the Behmor, so very keen to hear the results of any experimentation you do. The only partial success I've had with Brazil beans that I've tried is by slowing things right down, mentioned up the thread.
    I will let you know when they've had a few days to rest, assuming you still need to rest for cupping as well. Probably starting with the Brazil isn't the best for learning but that's what talk coffee had in. I will order something easier from bean bay soon. I will try your technique too.

  36. #86
    Junior Member davewilton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pcf1978 View Post
    Hi Dave,

    When the unintended function kicks in, simply hit "START" to continue the roast, leaving the time remaining unchanged.

    Hitting "C" (Rosetta Stone function) will adjust the time remaining in the following manner based on your starting weight selection:
    100g - 1:30 minutes
    200g - 2:10 minutes
    400g - 3:10 minutes

    Pete
    Cheers Pete that's exactly what I wanted to know! I couldn't find that in the instructions.

  37. #87
    Senior Member Barry O'Speedwagon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davewilton View Post
    Cheers Pete that's exactly what I wanted to know! I couldn't find that in the instructions.
    Yeh, it's not in the main instruction book. It's on the 'Behmor 1600 plus Cheat Sheet' that should have come with the roaster. The countdown starts 75% of the way through the initial preset roast length (so 15 minutes into a 20 minute roast).
    davewilton likes this.

  38. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by pyrmontboy200 View Post
    Thanks for the info pcf1978. Looking at your charts for Approach 1 I can see your exhaust temp basically flatlines from end of first crack to drop (217.8 -> 217.3). Approach 2 using P3 you go from 218 to 219.8 at drop, for roughly a minute, so call it 2 deg/min increase. This has been my experience in monitoring the A-sensor when using P2, it basically flatlines and doesn't seem to go anywhere after the exothermic kick from first. I know exhaust temp is a bad proxy for bean temperature, but even still, wondering whether this 2-2.5 degrees per minute using P3 post FC is a better idea as this is the minimum RoR we would be targeting to get to second in any reasonable timeframe. Perhaps P2 through FC to stop temp spikes from exothermic, then P3 once we've cleared FC...just an idea?
    What I like about approach 2 is the repeatability/predictability of manually setting the power level on approach to FC. With that in mind I decided to try a bit of a hybrid of the two methods. And for good measure I threw in pyrmontboy200's suggestion to bump back up to 50% mid way through FC.

    Hybrid
    Bean: Ethiopia Biftu Gesha Sundried
    Start weight: 200g
    End weight: 171g (loss of 14.5%)
    Profile: 200g P1 Start, set power to 75% at 9min, drop power to 25% at FC, and finally back up to 50% after rolling FC.
    Data Log: (Blue measuring exhaust temp, and Red is internal)

    15-10-18_1226.pdf.jpg

    Notes:

    Setting power to 75% at 9 minutes added about 20 seconds on time to reach FC (I thought this might happen, as P1 auto profile is usually cycling at ~80-90% power at this stage.)
    I decided on 9min for this power change as it times in with the unattended alert feature.
    Looks like bumping power back up to 50% mid FCr eliminated the flat line after FCe (as pyrmontboy200 predicted)
    Probably one of the more even looking roasts of this bean I've done.

    I repeated this shortly after with exacting results in terms of roast time (+/- 5 seconds) and end weight/roast depth. So it passes the repeatability test, just need to let them rest a bit now.

    IMG_0153.JPG
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  39. #89
    Senior Member Barry O'Speedwagon's Avatar
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    How are you capturing the exhaust / side wall temperatures pcf1978? Have you wired something up inside the Behmor?

  40. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry O'Speedwagon View Post
    How are you capturing the exhaust / side wall temperatures pcf1978? Have you wired something up inside the Behmor?
    I've just got two bead probes hooked up.
    I originally tried the stainless steel probes - but I found they would just get hot and stay hot - was hard to see small changes in temp. Probably good for measuring bean mass, less so for air in my case.

    Finding the outputted temps massively inconsistent roast to roast though. Even on the same day. Could be to do with wind/breezes in my garage?
    So finding the logging is only really useful to record/recall times and events rather than worrying about trying to correlate these with a specific temperature.

    probes_behmor.jpg
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  41. #91
    Senior Member Barry O'Speedwagon's Avatar
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    Ta. Yeh, I gave that up after a short experimental period

    I think the most comparable readings (across roasts) came from a bead-type thermocouple positioned in the chaff tray.

  42. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by pcf1978 View Post
    Perfect Melbourne weather today, so got to have a go at the two main approaches in this thread...

    Approach 1

    Bean: Ethiopia Biftu Gesha Sundried
    Start weight: 200g
    End weight: 173g (loss of 13.5%)
    Profile: 200g P1 Start, drop power to 25% at FC
    Data Log: (Blue measuring exhaust temp, and Red is internal)
    15-10-08_200P1Start.jpg

    Approach 2
    Bean: Ethiopia Biftu Gesha Sundried
    Start weight: 390g
    End weight: 335g (loss of 14.1%)
    Profile: 400g P2 B Start drop power to 75% at 12min, then 50% at FC, followed by 25%
    Data Log: (Blue measuring exhaust temp, and Red is internal)
    15-10-08_400P2BStart.jpg


    Results:

    IMG_0014.JPG

    Left: Approach 1
    Right: Approach 2

    Approach 2 ended up a little darker than I was aiming for. But looking forward to the results in 10 days!
    To follow-up on this...

    Hands down Approach 2 wins here.
    Even after taking into consideration the difference in roast depth it's clear Approach 2 has produced a much more developed flavour profile.
    The fruits are sweeter/riper, less zing, but with pleasant acidity. Smooth coco finish.
    To my palate Approach 1 has more inline with an unripe stone fruit, Approach 2 is perfectly ripe.

    I've moved on to the Yirgy's to see if the results are similar there. I've also got some Yemen Mocha Ismaili roasted to Approach 2 that's also in the queue too.

  43. #93
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    Now the hard question, do you have any feel for why Approach 2 is superior? Obviously longer dry phase and longer ramp to first for the larger load. I can see FC length looks more or less the same, and additional development time of about 45s or so is the same.

    The hardest thing I find with all this roasting bizzo is that it is hard putting your finger on what element you have changed and how it affects the final product.

  44. #94
    Senior Member Barry O'Speedwagon's Avatar
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    It's not going to be easy to directly compare those versions of Approach 1 and 2, as A1 is for a 200g load, and A2 is a 390g load. One would assume that there is less 'margin for error' in the smaller/shorter approach.

    I started using A2 as a means of achieving a gentler drop off in heat applied, while still providing enough 'momentum' going into FC to avoid baking the beans (or putting another log on the fire ). Using the basic P2 profile, but dropping the heat to 50% at FC was a bit more hit and miss for me in winter....a couple of roasts weren't going to make it to second crack.

  45. #95
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    On the surface, the very first thing I can say is that the beans in the larger batch spent longer in the roaster. Looking further at the roast curve, I see that as the batch size increases in the Behmor, the proportion of roast time spent ramping to FC from end of drying becomes significantly higher. Slowing down this ramp even more is the power cut in the second roast at 12 mins. In fact the biggest difference between Approach 1 and Approach 2 does seem to be a more gentle ramp. Drying is slower of course as you have a larger batch to dry, but the most dramatic element of the roast pcf1978 has changed between the two would have to be the ramp.

    Of course there is the question of comparing the bean temp post first crack, but we simply don't have the information, so I'll steer clear of any theories here.

  46. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by pyrmontboy200 View Post
    Now the hard question, do you have any feel for why Approach 2 is superior?
    Nope, not really...
    Guessing....
    - longer/gentle ramp to FC
    - greater momentum during/after FC
    or combination of both?

  47. #97
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    Hi guys...

    Probably A2 seems better because the bean may have been roasted more evenly all the way through and perhaps caramelisation is more developed....

    Mal.

  48. #98
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    hi all, thanks for the wealth of information, i'm sure i'll be able to utilise some of it in good time...

    i just bought the upgrade panel kit for an old behmor which i had repaired and got some biftu sundried from the beanbay.

    i've never roasted a bean before this, so i apologise in advance for interrupting the expert conversation i'm interrupting, but can anyone point me in the right direction for roasting this particular SO and the best way to experiment yet not completely waste $50 worth of geshas :P?

    Thanks!

  49. #99
    Senior Member Barry O'Speedwagon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Avex View Post
    hi all, thanks for the wealth of information, i'm sure i'll be able to utilise some of it in good time...

    i just bought the upgrade panel kit for an old behmor which i had repaired and got some biftu sundried from the beanbay.

    i've never roasted a bean before this, so i apologise in advance for interrupting the expert conversation i'm interrupting, but can anyone point me in the right direction for roasting this particular SO and the best way to experiment yet not completely waste $50 worth of geshas :P?

    Thanks!
    Approach 2, quoted in Post #92 above describes a roast profile using this very bean (and it works for me). If you struggle to reach 2nd crack, omit (or delay) the final power drop to 25%.

  50. #100
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    Behmor Coffee Roaster
    thanks Barry, i'm about to try this profile this evening. May I ask what this roast is intended for, espresso or filter?

    so i tried the above roast profile just then and reached rolling FC at the 7min to go mark. I then hit C for rosetta stone, timed 1 min then hit P4 for 75%, then after another min P3 for 50% which ran for 1 min 10secs, and i hit cooling with 1 min on the timer because of the stuff I read about thinking ahead of the roaster. Also the end of rosetta stone being the beginning of SC. Was I right to hit rosetta stone at the 7min mark, reducing my roast time to 3.10 or should i have let it run for the full 7mins?

    edit: my end yield was 338g, pretty close to what you guys got, so i'm assuming i *at least* got some of the fundamentals right. That said, the roast looks alright (medium, erring on dark) but there was little to no aroma, just a charred burnt smell, so I was initially afraid I overcooked them beans...

    Thanks!
    Last edited by Avex; 30th October 2015 at 12:22 AM.

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