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Thread: Roasting newbie

  1. #1
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    Roasting newbie

    So I've just taken possession of my Behmor 1600 plus after being a long time Coffee Snobs roasted bean buyer. I got my first roast out of the way last night with two roasts of the included Indian Elephant Hills. I did a 100 gram roast into 2nd crack and another 100 gram roast just after 1st crack just to see the difference in the bean characteristic once the extraction takes place.

    Generally I would of purchased Espresso Wow, Gold, Ethiopian Harrar Longberry , Sarah's, Fiefy's & Zeds just to mix it up. Any advice on what green beans I should purchase based on my previous roasted bean purchases and other newbie roasting tricks would be greatly appreciated.

    I also saw in one of the threads Andy posted his Behmor roasting profile he normally follows, I now can't seem to find where he posted that thread.

    Thanks in advance.

    Cheers - Richard.
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  2. #2
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Welcome to Coffee Snobs Richard.

    Congratulations on your new Behmor and your first couple of roasts, well done.

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    Senior Member flynnaus's Avatar
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    Welcome to the world of home roasting. The best part is the learning and experimentation. Even if Andy was prepared to share his blend recipes, don't expect to reproduce them on your Behmor as it is very different to the commercial gas-fired drum roasters he uses.

    Here's what I suggest: first learn to roast with the beans you have with different batch sizes and roasting programs. Take notes of what worked and didn't work.

    If you want to blend, then start with the 'staples':a bag of Ethiopian, a bag of Indonesian and something else (hard to go past the Peru). Then start playing around with proportions; try blending before you roast and blending after.

    Try a blend of 45% Indian, 33% Indo and 22% Ethiopian Another is 50% Peru, 25% Indo and 25% Ethiopian. Read through the blending section to see what others have tried. The combinations and possibilities are endless even with just 3 or 4 beans to blend with. Have fun!

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    Can't help too much on choice of beans. I havent found the green bean from here yet that I can't play with until I get a cup of something that I enjoy. But I also don't think I've had the same bean twice. I have been roasting a bit over a year and I think experimenting really helps your roasting, by playing with different temperatures and profiles and finishing levels of roasts and tasting the outcome. By experimenting you will learn what works for your tastes on your machine. A log book can help create some notes to help point you in the right direction. I currently roast on a hottop and my biggest leap forward in roasting was when I put a bean temp and environmental temp probe in with the heatsnob system not sure if your machine can do that. That being said I find overall the best profile for me is to precharge the roaster to about 200c before loading the beans have a small time with not much heat input (about a minute) then full steam ahead for the majority of the roast time backing off slightly before the beans hit first crack, then trying to have a slow increase ramp in bean temp from first crack to finish roast. I try and aim for first crack to occur about the 80% mark of my roast time. Also cracking the beans and checking the evenness of the roast development in the bean is a good tip as well. Good luck and happy experimenting
    nick

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    Senior Member deegee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhj1980 View Post
    I also saw in one of the threads Andy posted his Behmor roasting profile he normally follows, I now can't seem to find where he posted that thread. other newbie roasting tricks would be greatly appreciated.

    Thanks in advance. Cheers - Richard.
    One profile that Andy often uses is post #28 in this thread :- Behmor Plus - Roasting Approaches

    As for any other advice :-

    I find that it's easier to do 200 gram batches than 100g - smaller batches have less margin for error.
    Ambient temp is a factor - a setting that works well in winter will not give the same result in summer.
    The cooling cycle is very slow, and beans will continue develop for at least a minute (or two) into cooling

    The Rosetta Stone reset is a very handy feature, but I think it may be set up for cool or cold climates. In warmer areas/seasons it can take the roast deep into second crack, resulting very dark oily beans. When I need to use it I usually press "C" to reset the time, then hit the "minus" button two or thee times to reduce the time by 20 or 30 seconds. I prefer roasts that have stopped just before, or at the first snaps of second crack

    Cheers, deegee.

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    One thing to add to the great advice so far - as Nick and Flynn mentioned, take notes of everything you do. I have started to use the "roaster thing" which was designed with the Behmor in mind and expanded to other roasters.
    It's a simple program that you duplicate the actions of the behmor on the roaster thing. That way you can log exactly when you change from p1 to p2 (for manual mode etc) or when first/second crack starts. It also logs your green bean inventory and subtract the weight when you roast beans. I find it super helpful to tune in roasts, particularly if it's only a few of you and a bag of green beans can last months of coffee.
    One other thing that many of the Snobs here do is use the "heat snob" temp logger, which does require some basic mods to the behmor but it can log the internal temperature of the roasting cylinder. That way you can more accurately log the roast profile. I haven't purchased one yet, but it is certainly on the list to buy!

    I have a bag of the Peru and it is super easy to roast and has a huge following here because it is a superb bean. I would recommend getting a bag of that. As mentioned it also works well as a base bean for blends as it has a wonderful but fairly "mild" taste - not super fruity, nice chocolate, caramel base tones.

    Last thing, be prepared to mess up a few roasts. As you have already done, take one well into second crack, stop just after first and mess around to see what and how it affects the flavour.
    Last edited by WhatEverBeansNecessary; 18th June 2017 at 06:36 PM. Reason: Spelling

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    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WhatEverBeansNecessary View Post
    Last thing, be prepared to mess up a few roasts. As you have already done, take one well into second crack, stop just after first and mess around to see what and how it affects the flavour.
    With a little study and care no need to "mess up" any roasts.
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    Hottop charge temperature

    Quote Originally Posted by Nickm523 View Post
    I currently roast on a hottop and my biggest leap forward in roasting was when I put a bean temp and environmental temp probe in with the heatsnob system not sure if your machine can do that. That being said I find overall the best profile for me is to precharge the roaster to about 200c
    Hi Nick and everyone, I'm new to roasting in an actual roaster. I used a popcorn roaster for about 3 years, long enough to decide whether I'd keep doing it so it's worth getting something more controllable. I recently acquired a Hottop KN-8828B-2K. Imagine my dismay to find that multiple Hottop roasts with three different beans (Kenyan, Colombian and Ethiopian) were frankly undrinkable despite attention to the rate of heat increase and backing off the heat as the roast progressed. I first thought the beans must be stale. The results from the old $39 popcorn roaster which has given 3 years' service without giving up yet, were far better.
    Hmm. This motivated me to find out more, sooner about roasting. The first thing that leapt out at me, looking at some profiles, was that the charge temperature was much higher that the 75C at which the Hottop timer starts and the machine beeps to indicate preheating has finished. The accompanying starting guide also suggests that is the time the beans are added. A turning point of 80C or so seems to be more usual than the 40C that follows a charge temperature of 75C. So, today I roasted some Colombia with a charge temperature of 125C and behold, I found that the roast completed in a much shorter 11 minutes (previously 19 or so) and that the result was more like the freshly roasted deliciousness that I had previously come to expect.
    I count myself as a novice, so I'm not going to say that a charge temperature of 75C is wrong, or that the advice to use it is surprising, but I wonder what more experienced roasters have experienced with the Hottop and whether anyone who obtains a Hottop should be warned to ignore the 75C prompting and the instructions and commence roasting with a charge temperature more like double that? Your comments that I quoted, Nick, seem to be the only reference to charge temperature in a Hottop on coffeesnobs.
    Cheers
    Grae

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    Ha! True Yelta. Maybe it was over exuberance from a relative newbie (myself).

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    yeah i have noticed on two roasters hot top being one that higher charge temp is generally a better end result and think it is because first crack comes quicker and you don't get that baked flavour. the hold time after first crack seems to get the development of the flavour for me

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    i have been home roasting for maybe 5 years now. reading this thread (and some others recently), i think i've been over cooking the beans 99% of the time.

    experimentation seems to be a key recommendation here. i'd just mention that some equipment can constrain your ability to experiment. so for example i use a kony with a hopper. swapping between beans is not easy.

    in hindsight i should have been trying more things out with my roaster on small batches etc. however the need to purge a bit on the kony-e means a small batch doesn't last very long. could easily use a 100 g dialing it in. i am actually thinking of changing grinders to one that is more suitable for single dosing. it will give me an ability to make the best of the good advice herein.

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    Life-long Learner DesigningByCoffee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrgray View Post

    in hindsight i should have been trying more things out with my roaster on small batches etc. however the need to purge a bit on the kony-e means a small batch doesn't last very long. could easily use a 100 g dialing it in. i am actually thinking of changing grinders to one that is more suitable for single dosing. it will give me an ability to make the best of the good advice herein.
    Hi mrgray
    Try single dosing
    I had the same issues, but now single dose a Robur that allows me to sample all my different roast efforts and swap between with no waste. Works fine!
    Cheers Matt

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    hey Matt
    i have a query though. i have heard that in regard to retention, kony (and i imagine same ting is approx true for robur) is in order of 5 grams. so with a bit of effort to clear those fines, single dosing is a go. but, when adjusting grind size, one might need to purge a shot or two.

    to me that is a bit of a contradiction. however i find it to be true. so when i adjust grind size on kony, i find it doesnt really settle in until say the 3rd shot. that's my impression anyway.

    you haven't seen the same?

  14. #14
    Senior Member simonsk8r's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DesigningByCoffee View Post
    Hi mrgray
    Try single dosing
    I had the same issues, but now single dose a Robur that allows me to sample all my different roast efforts and swap between with no waste. Works fine!
    Cheers Matt
    Also curious how you go for shot consistency when single dosing. I keep reading that having beans in the hopper and moreso having weight on the beans provides consistent grinding, whereas single dosing leads to popcorning and inconsistent grinding... Am not sure if this is true or not, am gonna try some single dosing today with my Quamar Q50P, but what are your thoughts on that?
    Quote Originally Posted by mrgray View Post
    hey Matt
    i have a query though. i have heard that in regard to retention, kony (and i imagine same ting is approx true for robur) is in order of 5 grams. so with a bit of effort to clear those fines, single dosing is a go. but, when adjusting grind size, one might need to purge a shot or two.

    to me that is a bit of a contradiction. however i find it to be true. so when i adjust grind size on kony, i find it doesnt really settle in until say the 3rd shot. that's my impression anyway.

    you haven't seen the same?
    Also curious Matt! Haha.. in terms of how you clear out all the old grounds, and whether you need to purge anything

  15. #15
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    How much do these machines cost?

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    New or second hand?

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    $495 inc 2.5kg of beans.

    Goto Bean Bay -> Other -> Behmor 1600 plus.

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    If your altneratives are buying beans already roasted from a cafe every couple of weeks or so or the Behmor + BeanBay - Behmor and BeanBay will work out cheaper over a year or two (depending on your cafiene addiction of course).
    You will also garuntee yourself freshness.

  19. #19
    Super Moderator Javaphile's Avatar
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    Behmor Coffee Roaster
    Quote Originally Posted by ultrasuede View Post
    How much do these machines cost?
    Quote Originally Posted by inertia8 View Post
    $495 inc 2.5kg of beans.

    Goto Bean Bay -> Other -> Behmor 1600 plus.
    Or just click the link.


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