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Thread: Dairy farmers call for labelling crackdown on the word 'milk'

  1. #1
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Dairy farmers call for labelling crackdown on the word 'milk'

    I tend to agree with the dairy farmers, it ain't milk!

    Australia's dairy farmers are calling for a "truth in labelling crackdown" on the way the word "milk" is used by makers of plant-based milk products.
    Dairy Connect, a lobby group for NSW dairy farmers, says "milk" is defined by Food Standards as the mammary secretion of milking animals, and the use of the term on products such as soy and almond milks was confusing consumers.


    "We're not trying to constrict a product, it's about appropriate labelling so that whether it's milked from a mammal or a product from a plant, people can make an informed decision," says its chief executive Shaughn Morgan.
    "There are other titles they can use, and in some instances, they can call it water, juice, or another name."

    "In the US, a bipartisan group of 32 congressmen has sent a letter to the Food and Drug Administration, urging it to investigate and take action against makers of "fake milk" that doesn't come from cows."

    Milk "An opaque white fluid rich in fat and protein, secreted by female mammals for the nourishment of their young."

  2. #2
    Member woodhouse's Avatar
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    somehow i don't think 'nut juice' is gonna take off.
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  3. #3
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by woodhouse View Post
    somehow i don't think 'nut juice' is gonna take off.
    Perhaps not, but that's what it is.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Magic_Matt's Avatar
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    Haha!

    Look, I can see where they're coming from, but it's either disingenuous, patronising or both to claim consumers are confused about the origin of soy milk.
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  5. #5
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Forgot to link to the article Dairy farmers call for labelling crackdown on the word 'milk'

    The issue is, people running the almond and soy dairy's are calling the stuff they produce milk, it ain't.

    And now, for a bit of levity,
    The Carbonaro Effect - Milking Almonds Revealed

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Imue7RLNGos


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  6. #6
    Senior Member Barry O'Speedwagon's Avatar
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    How many consumers think that almonds are mammals? As long as the name contains the product of origin I don't think it's a huge deal. If someone sells 'Super Milk', which is actually produced from Jerusalem artichokes, then yeh.....
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  7. #7
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    The lady in the clip seemed convinced enough to commit to a workshop, by the way she was a pretty good sport, took it very well.

    Oh, as for almonds being confused with mammals, plenty of kids nowadays believe milk bread, meat etc somehow magically materialise in the supermarket, no idea of origin.

    "Researchers also found that four in 10 young adults did not know where milk came from, with 40 per cent of them failing to recognise the link between milk and a picture of a dairy cow."

    Kids still don't know where their food comes from
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  8. #8
    Senior Member Barry O'Speedwagon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yelta View Post
    The lady in the clip seemed convinced enough to commit to a workshop, by the way she was a pretty good sport, took it very well.

    Oh, as for almonds being confused with mammals, plenty of kids nowadays believe milk bread, meat etc somehow magically materialise in the supermarket, no idea of origin.

    "Researchers also found that four in 10 young adults did not know where milk came from, with 40 per cent of them failing to recognise the link between milk and a picture of a dairy cow."

    Kids still don't know where their food comes from
    Sure, but the fact that kids don't know where food comes from is not really a labelling problem, it's a broader education problem (on behalf of parents as well as schools).
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  9. #9
    Senior Member matth3wh's Avatar
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    So are they going to call it Soy Juice? Almond juice? Almond water? Soy Squirts?

  10. #10
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    I've never tried to stretch any nut (non) milk with my machine does it behave like cows milk?

  11. #11
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry O'Speedwagon View Post
    Sure, but the fact that kids don't know where food comes from is not really a labelling problem, it's a broader education problem (on behalf of parents as well as schools).
    Why exacerbate the problem, poor labeling practices certainly won't help.

  12. #12
    Senior Member Barry O'Speedwagon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yelta View Post
    Why exacerbate the problem, poor labeling practices certainly won't help.

    Sure, but this is simply an interest group angling for regulation to help them. Unless there's a public health problem implied, or we are talking about a brand name that these chaps have developed, I'd err on the side of leaving business alone.

    The big problem for dairy providers is their distribution channel, dominated by a couple of big players who drive prices down to bugger all. I'll support them to the hilt in their attempts to make that a fairer system.
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  13. #13
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    I'm with the dairy farmers.

    The Europeans are much better at this. The provenance and labelling of produce is much more strictly controlled.



    There's even a definition of what can be labelled alpine milk.
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  14. #14
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by herzog View Post
    I'm with the dairy farmers.

    The Europeans are much better at this. The provenance and labelling of produce is much more strictly controlled.


    There's even a definition of what can be labelled alpine milk.
    They certainly are, playing games with produce/wine labeling will incur hefty penalties.

  15. #15
    Senior Member Barry O'Speedwagon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by herzog View Post
    I'm with the dairy farmers.

    The Europeans are much better at this. The provenance and labelling of produce is much more strictly controlled.



    There's even a definition of what can be labelled alpine milk.
    Provenance is a very different issue. And that's fair enough. I'm presently enjoying a glass of Topaque thanks to that


    What exactly is the problem we are trying to solve here?
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  16. #16
    Senior Member Barry O'Speedwagon's Avatar
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    Easter egg producers better watch out.
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  17. #17
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry O'Speedwagon View Post
    Provenance is a very different issue. And that's fair enough. I'm presently enjoying a glass of Topaque thanks to that


    What exactly is the problem we are trying to solve here?
    It's a forum Barry, what's happening here is called a discussion, the OP related to dairy farmers getting their knickers in a twist over FAKE MILK.

    Not trying to solve anything, although on second thought I guess it is about the use/abuse of the English language, if it doesn't suit your mood, or your feeling a bit contrary, give it a miss.

  18. #18
    Senior Member matth3wh's Avatar
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    Dairy farmers call for labelling crackdown on the word 'milk'

    I think Coconut milk and Coconut cream will be problematic to stop given a history to use those words together.

    Honestly I think DF marketing and legal department have way too much time on their hands if they think this is a noble battle worth fighting.

    It should pass the common sense test too ;-)

    Surely that is that the market understands that Almond milk is a liquid of Almond water and thickener in a somewhat "milky" consistency.

    Perhaps dairy farmers should be forced to label their product to clearly say Cow's Milk just in case the picture of the cow isn't enough. Or better yet to ensure I'm not buying goat's milk.

    The standard/default assumption is that milk is a dairy cow's milk unless otherwise specified/qualified.

    I don't go to the supermarket expecting I'll get Camel milk.

    Really Good Almond Slurry. Our finest blend of almond and water and salt yet.

    Just be careful of what additives are in some of these products. You may be getting more (or less) than you bargain for.

    Now I've got to go find some of this cold pressed single origin milk I've discovered during this thread. Looks so creamy.
    Last edited by matth3wh; 28th February 2017 at 09:23 PM.
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  19. #19
    Senior Member Barry O'Speedwagon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yelta View Post
    It's a forum Barry, what's happening here is called a discussion, the OP related to dairy farmers getting their knickers in a twist over FAKE MILK.

    Not trying to solve anything, although on second thought I guess it is about the use/abuse of the English language, if it doesn't suit your mood, or your feeling a bit contrary, give it a miss.

    Yes, I know it's a forum my friend. I'm just giving you my take on the issue (as you have also done). We don't have to agree on everything. Surely people are allowed to disagree with the premise suggested by an OP without being patronised?
    Last edited by Barry O'Speedwagon; 28th February 2017 at 09:54 PM.
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  20. #20
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    So where does "Cow Juice" fit in?
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  21. #21
    Senior Member ArtW's Avatar
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    It's a milk substitute, ie an alternative to milk for those who don't want dairy. I think that's well understood. Maybe they can say "Almond Milk (substitute*)"?
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  22. #22
    Senior Member trentski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfgang View Post
    So where does "Cow Juice" fit in?
    Do you mean "blood"?
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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by trentski View Post
    Do you mean "blood"?
    Nope

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  24. #24
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    I agree with the dairy farmers that MILK is milked from mammals and is not squeezed from nuts or other vegetables.

    It is like all bubbly sold as champagne now must be made from grapes grown in Champagne, France.

    I don’t think it should be illegal to call milk substitutes milk, but the producers and marketers should somehow be encouraged to call it something else such as juice, water, drink, fluid, liquor, liquid, etc. but not milk.

    Barry.

  25. #25
    Senior Member noonar's Avatar
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    As far as I understand, any liquid extraction produced by the act of milking (derived from latin or greek for rubbing or stroking) can be referred to as Milk. Alternative names for Stallion Milking anyone?

  26. #26
    Senior Member Magic_Matt's Avatar
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    Dairy farmers call for labelling crackdown on the word 'milk'

    Personally, I reckon this is a risky and poorly thought-through strategy for the dairy farmers.

    The present state is that milk is the 'default' choice, and vegetable-based alternatives are seen as substitutes, largely used by hippies or people with dietary intolerances. Highlighting the differences will likely lead to consumers examining them more closely; an objective examination is likely to lead to the alternatives being more widely seen as a more ethical and healthful choice (as they are by most who opt for them by choice - as opposed to because of a dietary intolerance etc.).

    I'd bet that the trigger for all this was gluten free bread products becoming mainstream, popular and hitting traditional products - but the key difference there is that there are limited ethical and nutritional concerns over either option (wheat doesn't cry for its mother when you send it to the mill... ).

    Just my $0.02

  27. #27
    Senior Member Barry O'Speedwagon's Avatar
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    From the same article linked by Yelta above, the final 2 paragraphs are instructive:

    'The Food Standards Code says: "The context within which foods such as soy milk or soy ice cream are sold is indicated by use of the name soy; indicating that the product is not a dairy product to which a dairy standard applies."

    John McQueen, Australian Dairy Farmers' interim chief executive, says the status quo was appropriate, and calling for a specific ban was a "waste of breath".'
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  28. #28
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    If you're making beer in Germany, there's pretty strict regulations as to what's allowed in it if you want to label it as beer.

    Closer to home, if you want to call something fruit juice, it has to meet a certain threshold otherwise it's a fruit "drink".

    I'm with the farmers on this one. Good on them.

  29. #29
    Senior Member matth3wh's Avatar
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    Agreed Barry.

    Now that the storm in tea cup has blown over we can get back to brewing some coffee.
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  30. #30
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by matth3wh View Post

    Now that the storm in tea cup has blown over we can get back to brewing some coffee.
    Good idea, just as long as it has milk (take yer pick, dairy or fake) froth and bubbles.
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  31. #31
    Senior Member Magic_Matt's Avatar
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    Dairy farmers call for labelling crackdown on the word 'milk'

    Quote Originally Posted by herzog View Post
    If you're making beer in Germany, there's pretty strict regulations as to what's allowed in it if you want to label it as beer.

    Closer to home, if you want to call something fruit juice, it has to meet a certain threshold otherwise it's a fruit "drink".

    I'm with the farmers on this one. Good on them.
    That's a good point, but of course it's a bit of a silly technicality. Nobody buys almond milk expecting it to be mammalian in origin; whereas chemical as opposed to brewed beer is sold alongside the real stuff with no clear indication that it's basically an alcoholic hop and malt soda.

    But the more interesting question is whether some of the deconstructed, reconstructed chemical soup sold as ("real") milk would qualify? The Europeans are big on tradition; my guess would be no in many cases.
    Last edited by Magic_Matt; 1st March 2017 at 03:31 PM.

  32. #32
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    Humans are weird......drinking the breast milk of another species. Yuk, weirdo alert.
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  33. #33
    Senior Member matth3wh's Avatar
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    Dairy farmers call for labelling crackdown on the word 'milk'

    Sweet sweet Teat Juice (Tm).
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