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  1. #1
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Diet and Lifestyle.

    It was suggested in another elsewhere that a thread on diet and lifestyle would be a good idea, no one has picked up on it so here goes.

    As I've already mentioned I'm a believer of a balanced diet, i.e. everything in moderation, now by this I'm referring to readily available food items and not as was suggested in the other thread a moderate intake of weed killer, arsenic, 245T, Dieldren, gunpowder and the like.

    A diet very much along the lines of what is outlined here healthdirect | Healthdirectand most certainly not one of the fad diets that seem to rear their head with monotonous regularity.

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    Hey Yelta,

    I'm in total agreement with you on a balanced diet. It seems though that people don't seem to talk about the exercise that should be part of a healthy lifestyle.

    What are yours and other CSers thoughts?

    Cheers, Dave

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    Senior Member LeroyC's Avatar
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    Just had a read through the Healthdirect article Yelta. It's pretty much what has been recommended as the best diet for the last 30yrs or so. Some people would say that if it's been accepted as the best diet for so long then it must be right. Unfortunately I don't think it's as simple as that. A lot of people will say they eat a 'balanced' diet. What on earth is a 'balanced' diet? To me that's an incredibly subjective term, a bit like 'strong coffee'. The recommendations made by Healthdirect are probably fairly reasonable if you're able to follow them by using mostly fresh products and as little processed food and take away/fast food as possible. One of the big problems is that a lot of people think they're still following those guidelines even when they eat MacDonalds 3 or 4 times a week. Another issue with it is that it's incredibly broad and not very prescriptive. It says 3 'servings' of vegetables and 2 'pieces' of fruit. Really?!! What sort of fruit? You can get a huge variety of different nutrients from different fruits. Other components are different too such as the amount of sugar and fibre found in different types of fruit. These two things alone make a huge difference to how your body uses them. I eat up to 5 or 6 pieces of fruit a day and I've never been healthier. I'm conscious of what they are though and their size can even make a difference. The apples we have at the moment are half the size of the ones we had a few weeks ago. Does that mean I should eat 4 instead of 2 today?
    There are another couple of problems with the 'food triangle' referenced by Healthdirect. Firstly, do you know when it was developed and by whom? It wasn't developed by experts that had no agenda other than to achieve the best possible health outcome for us. It was developed by industry lobby groups in the US in the late '70s and early '80s that had an incredible amount of influence with the FDA. This is not a conspiracy theory, it's an accepted fact. The other problem is the '17 year lag'. Have you heard of this? It's an accepted phenomenon that the medical industry (as a whole which includes pharmaceuticals, medicine, health etc.) is perpetually 17 years behind the latest research. This of course isn't a completely bad thing as research is just that and it takes years to work things out at times. If there wasn't at least a small 'lag' we'd all be human Guinea pigs (even more than we are now). But 17 years is a long time. A lot of people will die unnecessarily in the next 17 years.
    I absolutely agree that 'fad' diets aren't the way to go. But I believe we should always be challenging the status quo. Even if the quantities and ratios prescribed by Healthdirect are right we still have a big problem as people obviously aren't following them well enough. If they were right and working then why do we have an epidemic of health issues such as obesity and diabetes? While people like Pete Evans are getting all the media attention the real debate is happening away from the mainstream; in universities, hospitals, and medical and scientific journals etc. And there's a growing number of doctors, scholars, researchers and scientists that are looking at what they see in front of them and saying 'something is not right'. They aren't interested in fads and social media spats, but they are also starting to realise that social media is a tool that they can use to gather information and data, as well as make arguments against accepted practices.
    So I'm not going to promote a specific diet or lifestyle. Certainly not one recommended by a government agency or a celebrity chef. I will however encourage everyone to do their own 'research'. The beauty of the Internet is that we have so much at our fingertips, so do some reading and educate yourself. Read everything and try to work out the fact from the fiction, or at least form your own view on these matters.
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    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveD View Post
    Hey Yelta,

    I'm in total agreement with you on a balanced diet. It seems though that people don't seem to talk about the exercise that should be part of a healthy lifestyle.

    What are yours and other CSers thoughts?

    Cheers, Dave
    As far as I'm concerned the combination of exercise and healthy diet pretty much go together, one of the big problems nowadays is the fact that compared to 50 years ago most of us lead a sedentary life style, inactivity combined with poor diet is not a good mix.

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    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeroyC View Post
    Just had a read through the Healthdirect article Yelta. It's pretty much what has been recommended as the best diet for the last 30yrs or so. Some people would say that if it's been accepted as the best diet for so long then it must be right. Unfortunately I don't think it's as simple as that. A lot of people will say they eat a 'balanced' diet. What on earth is a 'balanced' diet? To me that's an incredibly subjective term, a bit like 'strong coffee'. The recommendations made by Healthdirect are probably fairly reasonable if you're able to follow them by using mostly fresh products and as little processed food and take away/fast food as possible. One of the big problems is that a lot of people think they're still following those guidelines even when they eat MacDonalds 3 or 4 times a week. Another issue with it is that it's incredibly broad and not very prescriptive. It says 3 'servings' of vegetables and 2 'pieces' of fruit. Really?!! What sort of fruit? You can get a huge variety of different nutrients from different fruits. Other components are different too such as the amount of sugar and fibre found in different types of fruit. These two things alone make a huge difference to how your body uses them. I eat up to 5 or 6 pieces of fruit a day and I've never been healthier. I'm conscious of what they are though and their size can even make a difference. The apples we have at the moment are half the size of the ones we had a few weeks ago. Does that mean I should eat 4 instead of 2 today?
    There are another couple of problems with the 'food triangle' referenced by Healthdirect. Firstly, do you know when it was developed and by whom? It wasn't developed by experts that had no agenda other than to achieve the best possible health outcome for us. It was developed by industry lobby groups in the US in the late '70s and early '80s that had an incredible amount of influence with the FDA. This is not a conspiracy theory, it's an accepted fact. The other problem is the '17 year lag'. Have you heard of this? It's an accepted phenomenon that the medical industry (as a whole which includes pharmaceuticals, medicine, health etc.) is perpetually 17 years behind the latest research. This of course isn't a completely bad thing as research is just that and it takes years to work things out at times. If there wasn't at least a small 'lag' we'd all be human Guinea pigs (even more than we are now). But 17 years is a long time. A lot of people will die unnecessarily in the next 17 years.
    I absolutely agree that 'fad' diets aren't the way to go. But I believe we should always be challenging the status quo. Even if the quantities and ratios prescribed by Healthdirect are right we still have a big problem as people obviously aren't following them well enough. If they were right and working then why do we have an epidemic of health issues such as obesity and diabetes? While people like Pete Evans are getting all the media attention the real debate is happening away from the mainstream; in universities, hospitals, and medical and scientific journals etc. And there's a growing number of doctors, scholars, researchers and scientists that are looking at what they see in front of them and saying 'something is not right'. They aren't interested in fads and social media spats, but they are also starting to realise that social media is a tool that they can use to gather information and data, as well as make arguments against accepted practices.
    So I'm not going to promote a specific diet or lifestyle. Certainly not one recommended by a government agency or a celebrity chef. I will however encourage everyone to do their own 'research'. The beauty of the Internet is that we have so much at our fingertips, so do some reading and educate yourself. Read everything and try to work out the fact from the fiction, or at least form your own view on these matters.
    Can you provide links to some of the published papers from reputable universities, hospitals, and medical and scientific journals that you mention Leroy?

    PS Thats quite a block of text to wade through.
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    TC
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    Anybody care for some bacon?
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    Senior Member LeroyC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yelta View Post
    Can you provide links to some of the published papers from reputable universities, hospitals, and medical and scientific journals that you mention Leroy?

    PS Thats quite a block of text to wade through.
    I could, but I'd actually rather not to be honest as it could be seen as me promoting one thing over another and too easy for people to take the wrong way. Maybe in a very general sense people could watch some of the documentaries that helped me start to question things. I don't agree with all of them, but they do provide an alternative to conventional thinking. Things like 'Food Inc.', 'That Sugar Film', 'Cowspiracy', etc. I'm naturally skeptical so I'm far from convinced by any new way of thinking, but I'm also naturally inquisitive so I try to be open minded.

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    Senior Member LeroyC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveD View Post
    Hey Yelta,

    I'm in total agreement with you on a balanced diet. It seems though that people don't seem to talk about the exercise that should be part of a healthy lifestyle.

    What are yours and other CSers thoughts?

    Cheers, Dave
    What's a 'balanced diet'?
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeroyC View Post
    What's a 'balanced diet'?
    I often take my Diet in for a wheel alignment and balance to avoid any shuddering at high speed and for better handling.
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    Senior Member LeroyC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by noidle22 View Post
    I often take my Diet in for a wheel alignment and balance to avoid any shuddering at high speed and for better handling.
    Haha! Exactly.

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    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talk_Coffee View Post
    Anybody care for some bacon?
    Well said Chris

    I suspected the thread would unmask the conspiracy theorists, alternative life stylers and argumentative types among us, so far so good.

    Them that cant grasp the concept of a balanced diet may well have their own issues to deal with.

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    Senior Member noonar's Avatar
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    It's a lot easier to define a non-balanced diet than it is to define a balanced one... the goal posts keep moving due to new discoveries (and re-discoveries) and debunked (and de-debunked) old ones. I do like the simplicity of the Michael Pollan mantra.. "Eat food. Not too much. Mostly plants."

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    Senior Member LeroyC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yelta View Post
    Well said Chris

    I suspected the thread would unmask the conspiracy theorists, alternative life stylers and argumentative types among us, so far so good.

    Them that cant grasp the concept of a balanced diet may well have their own issues to deal with.
    I love bacon. Still not sure what a 'balanced diet' is though.

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    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeroyC View Post
    I love bacon. Still not sure what a 'balanced diet' is though.
    As you suggested earlier, some research is required.

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    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    This is worth a read Obesity robs years off your life FWIW my BMI is 24, wonder if others would like to weigh in?

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    Senior Member LeroyC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yelta View Post
    As you suggested earlier, some research is required.
    Look at it this way Yelta. I think I eat a 'balanced diet'. It sounds like you probably think you eat a balance diet, and yet it sounds like our eating habits are vastly different. For example I eat eggs nearly every day, but very rarely eat bread. So who's right? I can explain why I eat the way I do, can you?

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    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeroyC View Post
    I can explain why I eat the way I do, can you?
    I certainly can.

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    Senior Member LeroyC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yelta View Post
    I certainly can.
    Because it's what Healthdirect says?

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    Senior Member trentski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yelta View Post
    This is worth a read Obesity robs years off your life FWIW my BMI is 24, wonder if others would like to weigh in?
    BMI ..... Mines 27, apparently I'm 8 inches too short for my body weight.

    33 inch waist is well below obesity levels but bmi puts me right up there.

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    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeroyC View Post
    Because it's what Healthdirect says?
    Nope! I don't feel the need to justify my eating habits, however, to quote a previous poster "I could, but I'd actually rather not to be honest as it could be seen as me promoting one thing over another and too easy for people to take the wrong way."

    Suffice to say I'm probably about 3 times the age of the average CS member, to this point my diet and activity level seems to have served me pretty well.

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    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trentski View Post
    BMI ..... Mines 27, apparently I'm 8 inches too short for my body weight.

    33 inch waist is well below obesity levels but bmi puts me right up there.
    27 not too bad Trentski, when you get up over 30 it's time to start thinking.

    For them that feel a need to know. BMI Calculator | The Heart Foundation

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    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Ha, like it, hadn't seen it previously.

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    Senior Member LeroyC's Avatar
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    Hehe! I like it. Never seen that before.

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    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Just to clarify a couple of points.

    I'm not trying to promote any type of diet, nor am I insisting my concept of a balanced diet is the path of the righteous, I'm open to alternatives, just happens that to this point I've not discovered anything that I feel is superior to the five food groups,


    • vegetables and legumes (beans)
    • fruit
    • grains and cereals
    • lean meat, poultry, fish, eggs, legumes (beans) tofu, nuts, seeds
    • milk, cheese yoghurt or alternatives.

    Each food group has important nutrients.
    The amount of each food you need will vary during your life, depending on factors such as how active you are and whether or not you are growing, pregnant, breastfeeding and more.

    Having said that if anyone feels a balanced diet is a big mac washed down by a similar weight of coke three times a day, or any other alternative, more power to them.

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    Junior Member KopiOkaukau's Avatar
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    My healthy Pyramid ( Suggested by Robert Redfern, a health guru from UK ) Yes, I like these diet and lifestyle 655d7d4d28130abf43847f28025818db.jpg
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    My food pyramid.

    137890465145299.jpg
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    Senior Member artman's Avatar
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    I only eat things that are naturally sweet, like chocolate.

    Cheers

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    Senior Member noonar's Avatar
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    Stumbled upon a really good chocolate treat, try the Cadbury "limited edition" 70% cocoa, espresso bar. VNice IMO.
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    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by noonar View Post
    Stumbled upon a really good chocolate treat, try the Cadbury "limited edition" 70% cocoa, espresso bar. VNice IMO.
    Will keep an eye out for it, I'm a bit of a chocolate freak.

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    Quote Originally Posted by trentski View Post
    BMI ..... Mines 27, apparently I'm 8 inches too short for my body weight.

    33 inch waist is well below obesity levels but bmi puts me right up there.
    What's your waist to height ratio? I find 25BMI = 0.5 waist to height so BMI works pretty well for me but it can be a bit all over the place for some. Waist has a better correlation to health outcomes.

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    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    It's that time of year, bloody cold in SA, so, shopping yesterday, in the cereal section of the supermarket and lamped onto oats, good idea thinks I, bought a box.

    This AM porridge for breakfast, oats, milk, sultana's, pinch of salt, simmered for a few minutes and served sprinkled with sugar, slice of butter and milk, very good.

    As a bonus our dog thought the saucepan was great.
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    Senior Member trentski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kbilleter View Post
    What's your waist to height ratio? I find 25BMI = 0.5 waist to height so BMI works pretty well for me but it can be a bit all over the place for some. Waist has a better correlation to health outcomes.
    I'm 72 inches tall with a 33 inch waist. Bmi doesn't cater for body composition in any way. I've lifted weights and played sports all my life, the simplified BMI doesn't relate to my body type.
    I'm heavy for my height apparently (93kg) but not fat and certainly not borderline obese like my BMI would have you believe
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    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    Yep, ditto for me too Trentski...

    Lots of weight training followed up with aerobics and plenty of sports. According to the BMI result back then, I was borderline obese too. I'm only 175cm and weighed about 92Kg back then but like you, not an ounce of fat to be seen anywhere.... Not sure what the target population was meant to be...

    Mal.

  35. #35
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trentski View Post
    I'm 72 inches tall with a 33 inch waist. Bmi doesn't cater for body composition in any way. I've lifted weights and played sports all my life, the simplified BMI doesn't relate to my body type.
    I'm heavy for my height apparently (93kg) but not fat and certainly not borderline obese like my BMI would have you believe
    I agree its not a one size fits all indicator, however pretty reliable for a big percentage of the population.

    In my previous life I used BMI as part of the data for vetting potential employees, it always gave me a pretty good idea of the physique of the person I was going to interview.
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    Apparently every player in the Wallabies union team was clinically obese according to the BMI.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yelta View Post
    This is worth a read Obesity robs years off your life FWIW my BMI is 24, wonder if others would like to weigh in?
    Now this is scary.
    It said, "A person who is 162cm tall is considered obese at a weight of 79kg or more." . Well very few people (blokes anyway) are 162cm. Why pick on THAT measurement?

    It just happens to be MY height.

    I'm much lighter than that (67kg) anyway, but why that number??

    Gonzo

  38. #38
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Come on guys its an excellent guide for the wider population, nothing is cast in stone.

    Nothin scary about it, it's a guide, if you dislike the concept don't use it, common sense needs to be applied, a commodity that seems to be in short supply nowadays.

    Accept it, don't accept it, nothin to get yer knickers in a twist over.
    Last edited by Yelta; 16th July 2016 at 07:37 PM.
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    Yeah, I've had similar experience as trentski and Dimal with BMI, according to my BMI when I was in shape I was "overweight" because I was quite muscular for my height, still am now, but there's quite a bit more fat on me so I'm probably legitimately overweight now.

    FWIW, my BMI was 27 at peak fitness, currently 30, I could stand to lose maybe 6-8kg of fat.
    Last edited by jbrewster; 16th July 2016 at 10:42 PM.
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    Senior Member LeroyC's Avatar
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    Diet and Lifestyle.

    Quote Originally Posted by simonko View Post
    Apparently every player in the Wallabies union team was clinically obese according to the BMI.
    Every professional football player is obese according the the BMI (contact 'football' that is; rugby, American football etc.). It's pretty much useless on its own. I think most people understand that now though don't they? It's just one very basic tool that should be used in conjunction with a variety of others depending on the situation. It was never designed to be used by the general public anyway I believe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by trentski View Post
    I'm 72 inches tall with a 33 inch waist.
    Sounds pretty healthy :-)

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    http://time.com/4087775/sugar-is-def...ew-study-says/

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/ar...al-health.html

    Yelta, sounds like you've taken your philosophy from DAA, it's obviously working look at how we now have unprecedented incidence of obesity and type 2 diabetes along with a smorgasboard of other related diseases caused by high insulin levels. Unfortunately it's the result of bad science and the food industry. It's not a conspiracy it's the fact that the food industry is powerful just like the tobacco industry was.

    And also those of you who still believe the calorie theory
    https://intensivedietarymanagement.c...-calories-out/
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    Eat whatever you want and sink 3 double shots every day. My diet.!
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeteSzad View Post
    Eat whatever you want and sink 3 double shots every day. My diet.!
    I'm not saying you can't eat whatever you want, chow down on a screaming hot t@#d for all I care.
    It's the fact that the voices are starting to get louder against the current dietry guidelines and how badly it's effecting not only the nations health budgets but more importantly people in general. Government has a big problem on its hand's either appease the food industry or regulate it to stop health budget blow outs. I for one take exception to having to fork out my tax dollars to go towards having to pay to for health care costs for someone who's health is declining because they chose to smoke for most of their life. It's starting to go the same way for people who've had a poor diet as well.

  45. #45
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Bottled water, for the gullible among us.

    Bottled water! why would you waste your money as well as add to plastic pollution.

    Bottled water producer admits consumers paying for plastic not 'pure, safe' water
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    Senior Member Barry O'Speedwagon's Avatar
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    Depends where you are in the world. The tap water in London, for example, it typically not pleasant to drink. So if your circumstances mean it's not practical to use a filter, then I can see why some use bulk bottled water. Not something I do often myself.

  47. #47
    Senior Member trentski's Avatar
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    Your problem Stoffy isn't your message but how you are delivering it and your target audience. I'm guessing here but I would expect the average coffeesnob to be smarter than the average bear and a bit more aware of what constitutes a good diet.

    Further assumptions ahead.....

    I'm also assuming that most people here, in this discussion at least, already eat a healthy diet and aren't heading towards obesity and diabetes. So you're effctively telling healthy people their diet is crap and they're all going to lose their feet and go blind, when they know they're not. This is the reason you're getting the response you are.
    The cico article you linked does the same thing. Assumes people think eating a plate of biscuits is the same as eating a nutrtious meal. I don't think anyone is arguing they are the same. What people are saying is they eat a balanced diet and are in good health and don't see a reason to change. You appear to be telling them that they don't eat a balanced diet because the food illuminati have mislead us all about what a balanced diet is, but that's an assumption on your part because you don't know what everyone is eating.

    Just because your version of a balanced diet led to you being 30kg? overweight, doesn't mean everone else's balanced diet will do the same.

    Typing on phone so giving up now.
    Last edited by trentski; 19th July 2016 at 01:53 PM. Reason: Phone typing
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    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry O'Speedwagon View Post
    Depends where you are in the world. The tap water in London, for example, it typically not pleasant to drink. So if your circumstances mean it's not practical to use a filter, then I can see why some use bulk bottled water. Not something I do often myself.
    True, same story in SE Asia.

    In Italy last year the same bottle of water we pay $3 for here sells for about 40cents.

    However what I'm referring to in my post is bottled water in OZ, the water is fine to drink right out of the tap in most cities, even Adelaide water seems OK now.

  49. #49
    Member Stoffy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trentski View Post
    Your problem Stoffy isn't your message but how you are delivering it and your target audience. I'm guessing here but I would expect the average coffeesnob to be smarter than the average bear and a bit more aware of what constitutes a good diet.

    Further assumptions ahead.....

    I'm also assuming that most people here, in this discussion at least, already eat a healthy diet and aren't heading towards obesity and diabetes. So you're effctively telling healthy people their diet is crap and they're all going to lose their feet and go blind, when they know they're not. This is the reason you're getting the response you are.
    The cico article you linked does the same thing. Assumes people think eating a plate of biscuits is the same as eating a nutrtious meal. I don't think anyone is arguing they are the same. What people are saying is they eat a balanced diet and are in good health and don't see a reason to change. You appear to be telling them that they don't eat a balanced diet because the food illuminati have mislead us all about what a balanced diet is, but that's an assumption on your part because you don't know what everyone is eating.

    Just because your version of a balanced diet led to you being 30kg? overweight, doesn't mean everone else's balanced diet will do the same.

    Typing on phone so giving up now.
    You are right in at least one respect, you're full of assumptions.

  50. #50
    Senior Member trentski's Avatar
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    All part of a balanced diet
    Dimal likes this.

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