Thats a wonderful coffee I love itOriginally Posted by 3231242D242E2C282A24410 link=1245553677/50#50 date=1258284840
You need a few baby steps before you get your sea legs Mike
Keep us in the loop on your roasting progress
The roast that Will took me though last Sat was tried today. Its profile probably wasnt all that great as we were tweeking it as-she-goes. About CS11 in colour. Anyhow the roast is creamy and sweet, nice coffee aroma. Nothing great but not bad for a 1st roast.
Note: temps below is what Garnti panel shows, TC inserted in a screw hole next to trier shows 65C higher.
Now today I tried a 1kg of Ethiopian Guji again. Last Sat I burnt a 1kg. This time I burnt another kg :-) Details: Garanti read 115C at drop, temp dropped to only 104C. FC at 4.5 mins. Turned off gas. At 6 mins temp dropping so turned gas onto 20 kpa. SC at 7.5 mins. Ended.
CS 13 :-) Wife used it on the garden.
Sumartran Mandheling Takegon Organic. 1kg. Used lower temp of 110C for drop. Temp went down to 99C then rose till FC at 7 mins, turned off gas and let it coast along. Had to turn on/off gas a few times but still profile was a bit hilly. SC at 16 mins. CS color 10.
This run will be just OK. I need to get better at maintaining a slow steady rise or a plateau after FC using the gas control.
Thats a wonderful coffee I love itOriginally Posted by 3231242D242E2C282A24410 link=1245553677/50#50 date=1258284840
You need a few baby steps before you get your sea legs Mike
Keep us in the loop on your roasting progress
I have removed the left hand screw from the trier and inserted the TC of the temp meter.
The TC in this position reads about 65C above the Garanti TC as displayed on its front panel.
I need to rig up something more permanent to record the temp. The TC probe needs to go only 2/3 of its length so it does not get hit by the drum. What are Garanti owners here using for temp recording? What nifty way have you inserted the TC so it sits tight and snugly? Mine is in place with gaffer tape.
What are rough drop temps for 1 kg loads? I used 115 for Nicarg Bold and that was OK but the Ethiop Guji got away at 115C so I used 110C (as read by Garanti TC).
PS. Also got myself a new 2kg fire extinguisher to have handy. Hopefully Ill never need it.
Im going to look around for a 44 gal drum lid. If I can cut a hole in its centre about 1 inch dia that will fit nicely over the cooler and can be used to smother burning beans if they ever catch fire upon exit.
Congratulations with your purchase from Will. Recognised this roaster as we did a couple of roasts with Will before deciding to purchase the same a couple of years ago.
Now many roasts later have found great roast results for 1kg roasts by heating drum with the gas indicating 40kpa upto 160C registering on the HG temp guage. On reaching this temp turn gas back to 30kpa and drop the greens into the drum. When early stages of first crack are heard turn gas back to 20kpa and coast the roast through to 2nd crack usually around 4 to 5 mins later. Roast times generally around 17 to 19 mins. Drop temps generally around 160C - 170C on HG temp guage and around 210C - 215C on the TC probe which provides reading of bean mass. Have achieved this by removing the top left *screw on the hinge of door and inserting probe through a teflon tube (used on internal fitting of commercial espresso machine). Need to make sure the probe clears the vanes of roast drum.
For loads less than 1kg (250grms to 500grms) have found need to back the gas right back after initial heating of drum so guage reading 20kpa to first crack and ease back further to around 15 - 17kpa.
a great reply with some very good info - what did you use to hold the TC probe in with? teflon tube ?
The times seem a bit short actually, and the temps indicated arent really matching up with what one would expect.
How is the coffee cupping?
I bet you are having a ball.
Just a suggestion :) but have you checked temp probe to see if it is acurate? Are the temps you are talking about on less that full loads?
Do you think that the probe is within the bean mass enough to give accurate bean temp ( as far as that is possible )
Just as a general idea, most beans are hitting FC at anywhere between 198 C and 203 C. Whereas SC can be 218 to 226 depending on airflow velocity and thermal level, and of course inertia of heat ramp. Please keep posting your results, as it is fascinating to see where you are going on this. I would love to cup any of your roasts if you feel inclined to send some down here !!! :)
Experiments and playing will be a little slow as Im only doing 2 roasts a week.
> ... great roast results for 1kg roasts by heating
> drum with the gas indicating 40kpa upto 160C registering on the HG temp guage.
> On reaching this temp turn gas back to 30kpa and drop the greens into the drum.
> When early stages of first crack are heard turn gas back to 20kpa and coast the
> roast through to 2nd crack usually around 4 to 5 mins later.
The above is what Im doing with respect to gas flow (pretty much the same as Will showed me), the difference however is the temp. I was shown to heat to ~ 115-120 on the HG probe which corresponds to about 180C on a TC inserted into a screw hole in the exit shute.
Your drop temps are much larger than what I have been using.
> Roast times generally around 17 to 19 mins.
Yep OK there.
> Drop temps generally around 160C - 170C on HG temp gauge
> and around 210C - 215C on the TC probe which provides reading of
> bean mass.
> Have achieved this by removing the top left screw on the hinge of door
I put the TC into the top right screw hole which means its probably measuring the environmental temp of the hot air and not the bean mass. The drum rotates clockwise so the beans will be higher up the side on the left of the drum and lower on the right.
> FC at anywhere between 198 C and 203 C. Whereas SC can be 218 to 226 depending on
For the Guiji that ran away FC was at 187, for the Sumatran that seems OK FC was at 170C on the TC in the exit shute.
Ill have to do some more tests on Sunday of what temps the TC reads depending on what screw hole I insert it into. Ill also have to work out the level of the beans on the RHS for a 1kg load. I really need a full quartz front plate for the roaster so I can see everything thats happening.
I have combined what Will told me and the advice above from various posts above and have got a bit more feel for the machine.
CS Multimeter Thermocouple: First off I have now a permanent place for my multimeter thermocouple probe (called the TC hereafter). Ill call the inbuilt Garanti probe the HG probe. I removed the bottom right screw from the window, this is the screw right next to the HG probe, and placed my TC in there. I picked that rather than the door as it does not move and the TC is out-of-the-road and its still in the bean mass for a 1kg load. After much searching I found a ceramic varicap that when you remove the adjustment screw the TC probe just fits nicely inside. The varicap is ceramic so it insulates the TC from the brass of the roaster. The outside of the varicap just fits in the screw hole and is help in place with a touch of superglue.
Temp Profile: Here is some data showing the TC (blue) versus HG probe (red) with no beans in the drum. Just for a comparison. What I found is that the HG probe, being short and held in by a metal clamp, is held back as the drum warms up. It lags behind lots and is so slow to respond. So what I have learn, as people here suggested, is to ignore the HG probe and use the TC one as one needs to know fast if the temp is dropping to turn up the gas or vice-versa.
In the graph attached:
Gas 40 kpa to start. Temp rate ~ 24 C/min.
Set to 30 kpa at 9 mins. Temp rate ~ 5-7 C/min.
Set to 20 kpa at 12 mins. Temp rate ~ 1 C/min i.e. just coasting along.
Turn off gas at 20 mins.
The blip at 22 mins and 23 mins was when I opened the top inlet shute. I think the air flow changes so that the probe isnt cooled as much by the airflow and it shows a heating up from *radiation or conduction from the drum.
After the above I did a Yemen Bani Ismail roast which I think came out pretty OK.
IMO The HG probe is only good for getting your drop temp.
Roasting is about changing one thing at a time so you know what works.
Try different drop temps, leave everything else the same, and move along.
On my roaster 1min turn, *3mins or so to 100c, 1st in 11-11.30 and then 4-5 to where you want to finish.
Try *putting in another probe to measure your air temp. *Roasting is all about air after all. *I put mine in the flap under the bean funnel.
Maybe a meet or get together with Has Garanti roasters would be interesting to share some knowledge.
All this is just how I do it. Could be lots of better ways.
Hi swig and all.
At this stage I cant see myself getting another multimeter and TC. Then Id want the software to record both as well.
> Try different drop temps, leave everything else the same, and move along.
> On my roaster 1min turn, 3mins or so to 100c, 1st in 11-11.30 and then
> 4-5 to where you want to finish.
Im in the right ball park. Below is my Yemen Bani Ismail. My drop was at 210C as measured by multimeter. It went down to 100C then came up within 6 minutes and FC at 11.2 mins.
* Is that about right?
At FC I turned the gas to 20 kpa to coast along but after 12.5 mins turned it off as temp was rising too fast still. Then after a while I had to turn it on again as was starting to cool so the profile from FC to SC was a bit bumpy.
* Are most people managing a flatter, smoother rise with experienced gas control or do you get bumps too?
SC hard to hear but around 17 mins, maybe earlier. I think I could have dumped a bit earlier as they are ~ CS 10-11.
Bumps are caused by the beans switching from endothermic (absorb heat) to exothermic (give off heat, particularly around FC) and back again to endothermic.
Perhaps looking at your roast development curve from FC ==> SC. and knocking down your heat about 60-90 seconds before signs of first crack appear (log the times and you can anticipate it), or give it more airflow.
When the beans start to become exothermic around first crack, they throw off a fair bit of heat as they pop and the time/temp lag generally shows itself 1-2 mins after FC by the roast wanting to race quickly (or spike) towards second crack before stalling a little as the beans absorb heat again.
You have to navigate through this zone carefully and its quite important to make sure you log the different points/settings and only change 1 variable at a time (as per Martys instructions above) - you have to anticipate what is going on with the roast development and how to compensate with your roaster. Basically, you need a mental map of the profile and react quickly/early when you see a deviation.
From your graph, you are peaking at 15.5 mins and then the temp is going down ??? for a few mins until you drop. Is that right ??
Stalling thermal momentum over the final 3 mins may be baking your beans. 7 mins could be seen by some as quite a long roast development cycle and unless you had very good control during this stage and know exactly how you want that bean to develop, it could be counter-productive.
Roast times are only a guide - test by whats in the cup. The capability and metallurgy of your roaster and your particular installation may mean your timings could vary by 1-2+ mins when compared to another roasters profile.
If you suspect baking, a way to evaluate is to use the traditional cupping method and perform a number of tasting tests as the cup cools. Depending upon the bean and roast, but if you are left with quite sour notes when cool - it could indicate baking or other issues that are introduced as a result of the roast profile.
Ill cup them on Friday myself and see if there is sourness and try and get them cupped on Sat at the Sydney get together.
I understand that they become exothermic and yes the problem is to know the bean well enough that one can anticipate or recognise when to cut back the heat. Yes my temp shot up at 15 mins as I turned the gas back on as it had started to stall (the rate was starting to drop).
When I turn the gas back on one has to keep the gas on till the temp sensor is hot enough so the flow solenoid stays open. I had to flow too high at that point and by the time it stayed on it was was to turn off the gas again as the temp went too high. At that point I thought it was SC and ended.
Its all about me learning the bean, anticipation of its behaviour and getting more finer control of my machine by doing lots of roasts. I need a cheap bean, anything at < $5/kg :-)
Just a short post to say how that Yemen Bani Ismail in the graph above tasted. "Camel Butt" as Hazel put it. To me it had a burnt tyres taint to it. Others said a cigarette taint. It was smooth and sweet though at the same time. It was also too dark. My wife thought it was OK in milk.
Oh well. Further posts on my HG runs will be in the Roasting Tips section for successs/failures as this thread I think is more for HG hardware.
Im curious to know how Hazel is able to recall the taste of camel butt so accurately *:-? ;DOriginally Posted by 4340555C555F5D595B55300 link=1245553677/62#62 date=1259891664
Big (ok not so big) air trip....
I am heading north today to catch up with cuppacoffee and then the ECA guys- to get all the inside information on whats happening in the Rocket and VBM labs... :-X
Tomorrow, its another flight a little further north to Coffee Roasters Australia to meet with Mark for a roaster workshop day...
While Im there, a certain roaster by the name of Osman is being commissioned.
Think there may be a bloke somewhere down south of Sydney who will be pretty excited about that ;)
Den and I jetted North yesterday to spend a day with Mark at Coffee Roasters Australia. A massive thank you Mark for your hospitality and squeezing so much into a short time-frame. *[smiley=tekst-toppie.gif]
Not only did we get to check out Osman before he gets crated up, we met with the CRA gas bloke and were able to watch some of the work which goes into making these roasters work so well...
Some facts which were new to me:[*]Roasters arrive in a very much vanilla configuration ex. Turkey[*]The entire gas componentry is pretty much ditched and everything from bottle to burner is replaced to meet our regulations. We got to see a comparison between stock and the new spec burner on Osman (First roaster in Aust in this configuration) and the difference in heating time and flame quality was *:o. Buyers now have the option of LPG or Nat Gas configurations at no extra charge.
[*]A whole heap of electrical work is done as well to ensure that the roasters are safe to use. You cant light one without the fan and drum motors running and there are a host of other safety systems installed at Coffee Roasters Australia to make our gear #1.
Mark is highly passionate about what he does and has big plans for CRA. There are some amazing diagnostic tools coming to add to the range to make the process even easier. The great thing is that these normally very expensive items will be sold at very low prices to make them accessible to commited Garanti owners.
I guess the big eye opener for me is that so much work takes place to make a roaster compliant for Aussie conditions and to self-import and then get a roaster right and safe to go in Australia would be a massive undertaking and very expensive as well- unless youre a qualified sparkie and gas combustion tech.
For those thinking of jumping of the HG bandwagon, Mark has ordered plenty of stock due in the new year and if your accountant reckons you can make the most of the K Rudd 50% tax rebate, you must have paid a deposit by 31/12/09 and have your roaster up and running no more than 12 months later.
Mark will also be hosting a 5 day roasters workshop in March organised by Jill Adams (Coffee Academy) and delivered by Tracy Allen. It will be a must for those considering moving to the next level...
Thise interested in more info are welcome to chat with Mark in QLD or Dennis (NSW agent) or moi- Vic/Tas...
Wow congrats Dennis. You must be proud! Now think of all the time saved vs the many hours Im sure youve laboured over the 3 Kilo!!! Wish you all the best with your journey with Osman.
As a ps if you wernt going to take Osman from Mark we had our eyes on him as well. :) Glad to see he has gone to a great home!
Well done Dennis.
Tell Osman elinize sa[ch287]l[ch305]k for me. (Its a blessing that means "health to your hands" - hooray, a reason for my having learnt Turkish the last 6 months!).
Do keep us updated! I remember enjoying your "here comes Dudley" thread very much.
Handsome devil, isn he. Fits into the shop well.
If thats Osmans first roast at your hands, a great result.
Im curious about how you would load him up. A bucket and step ladder?
The height of the feeder funnel must be close to 2m
Has Garanti - Will Roast.
Congratulations Den.... [smiley=thumbsup.gif]
Beautiful piece of kit mate. It certainly fits the bill from your original list of basic requirements - Bright and Shiny 8-) ;D.... And very big too :D
Is Osman already seasoned and ready to go? That roast doesnt look to bad at all :)
Thanks for the well wishes guys.
The only scary part of taking delivery of Osman was managing to get him inside the shop. Unpacking an enormous crate on the footpath to reveal a 350kg roaster must have looked funny to people driving by. :o
Phhhttt! See above Steve. If I got him into the shop, lifting 10kg into a hopper is childs play. ;)Originally Posted by 7B716473737C686E1D0 link=1245553677/69#69 date=1261255135
Well and truly seasoned before that particular roast Mal. The previous ones went into the dumpster.Originally Posted by 5974707C711D0 link=1245553677/71#71 date=1261283797
Youll recall I could never quite overcome the odd divot when using Dudley. Not so with Osman. Hes already roasted 130kg and I havent been able to find a divot in any of the roasted beans! 8-)
I imagine you were able to wheel the roaster in and then carry in the remaining parts - hopper, cooling unit, etc.Originally Posted by 1F3E353532285B0 link=1245553677/72#72 date=1261306208
Fair enough, Hercules. ;D I guess its the equivalent of carrying a standard bucket full of water up a ladder. (yeah, yeah, a standard bucket of water would weigh 9kg these days.)Originally Posted by 1F3E353532285B0 link=1245553677/72#72 date=1261306208
It wasnt the weight so much but the OHS implications of climbing a ladder to pour it into the hopper.
What is the bean you roasted in your pic?
Hows Osman trucking along for you Dennis?
Im thinking of changing his name from Osman the Great to Osman the Magnificent! :DOriginally Posted by 5868737D726E7F6849737E7F1A0 link=1245553677/75#75 date=1265689551
haha I take that in the affirmative! Be intersting to hear your thoughts some day on roasting on the Diedrich Vs the Has Garanti seeing you have experience on both. However Im sure it will cause some heat from Diedrich users ;DOriginally Posted by 537279797E64170 link=1245553677/76#76 date=1265689992
Now where was that popcorn? :-? Im gonna pull up a chair as it will be better watching than the giggle box! ;DOriginally Posted by 0F3F242A2539283F1E2429284D0 link=1245553677/77#77 date=1265695448
Marks current HG roasters are playing well above their height and have little other than external appearance in common with even 18 month old roasters. The results are in the bags and also on the walls of many HG owners.
With the 15 Kilo due next week our 5 Kilo is now for sale to a good home! http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1251468789/0#2 for more details.Originally Posted by 10203B353A263720013B3637520 link=1245553677/39#39 date=1257836851
Sorry havent contributed earlier other than the odd bit here and there.
Heres a couple of roasts from today, the container on the left is 2.5kg of Brazil (old beans) and the container on the right is 2kg of the same.
The left one was 15.40 and the right one 14.10
Temps...well might as well write anything as I am only using the HG display, in at 44deg and out at anything from 75-86 :-/
I have drilled a hole through the screw that goes in by the sight glass and when my replacement probes come we are away.
Anyway heaps of fun and starting tomorrow in go the real beans, wish me luck !
The Apprentice ;)
"kingdom coffee" ....nice one. all the best with what I guess is a new venture?
Yes like many similar stories here, hobby gone mad ;D
Its still a hobby but rather than taking hours to roast enough coffee to supply a handfull of people, I can now (soon) be able to do the job in a spare hour at most ;)
One thing I will say at this early stage is the "Corretto" is still an amazing device and in fact I am working on a Mk 2 version for all small batches.
Here is a pic of my new Talk Coffee supplied 5kg Has Garanti, equiped with the Coffee Snobs USB Temperature Data Logger.
I was delighted to hear today the new set up earned a Silver Medal in Cappuccino Class at this years Sydney Royal Fine Food Show!
Awesome set up there Aedion !
Looks like a great set up. Were all curious so tell us more.
Congratulations Aedion! Not only for the new set up but also for having your skills as a roaster acknowledged by others.
My congrats also Aedion!Originally Posted by 624348484F55260 link=1245553677/86#86 date=1267046771
Your setup looks terrific and its clear that the results are in the cup!
Well done and thanks for choosing us to supply your roaster 8-)
3kg Blend in the cooler and a nice SO from the new Corretto set up.
Thankyou for the kind words guys!
What exactly are you curious about Stuart?Originally Posted by 5651504457514257444B51250 link=1245553677/85#85 date=1267038435
Ha ha! Oh, the usual. Whats your story? How did you get into it? What challenges have to had/overcome? etc. No pressure though - I just enjoy hearing these stories.Originally Posted by 5B5F5E5355543A0 link=1245553677/89#89 date=1267170750
And Im about to start a roasting job, you see ;)
our community centre in Ontario Canada has recently acquired a new HAS Garanti HGS5 roasting machine and I will be in charge of maintenance and lubrication of the machine. Unfortunately no service information was shipped with the machine and I do not have specific training in restaurant equipment repairs. What we are looking for is any product-specific service documentation for the machine, its husk collector and exhaust flue so we can set up a maintenance checklist and service schedule. Obviously we cant expect advice on the gas equipment because that varies according to region and I do not have data yet on how much product we are roasting but some general guidelines would be greatly appreciated.
Our goal is to roast coffee to provide a revenue stream which will support our various community initiatives. We are a non-profit organisation and I am a volunteer. If anyone can provide resources that can help us roast better coffee, lower our operating costs, and make our machine last longer and work more reliably, our whole community will benefit. I look forward to your comments and suggestions. Thank you!
Please email me directly on email@example.com and I will be able to help you with manuals and servicing for the HG.
Will do mark, much appreciated!
Isnt the gas regulator on your gas bottle 2.5kPa?Originally Posted by 2E2D38313832303436385D0 link=1245553677/56#56 date=1258676548
How do you get 40kPa?
Or am I missing something here?
Hi Bassway,Originally Posted by 7E7D6F6F6B7D651C0 link=1245553677/94#94 date=1272406960
Some older Garanti roasters run high pressure 70kPa regulators...Mark is installing the complete gas train in Aussie Garanti stock. They arrive in Australia without the gas train these days....
2.75kpa for LPG and 1.1kpa for Natural is what the regulators on the roasters are rated at. The older models (about 1.5 years old) had high pressure burners running at a max of 70-75kpa. Some were rated to only give a maximum of 40kpa-50kpa though as the flame was too unstable at max pressure.
We redo the complete gas train here and install new burners as we found it too difficult to use what the machines come in with as different markets work off difference pressures and gas mixtures.
I had a very interesting discussion with a client last week (non CSer)...
Hed placed an order for a Has Garanti roaster and a whole heap of other stuff, but was backward in coming forward with a deposit. After multiple emails and phone messages without so much as a response, I called him to inform that we would need to cancel the hold on his roaster as no payment had appeared.
He told me that they were having second thoughts as they could purchase the same roaster from the middle east- and it was cheaper as well...
Has Garanti dont actually have any agents whatsoever in the country he was suggesting he could purchase from!! *:D
Of course he most generously suggested that he would still like to do all of his roaster training with us. I have a suspicion that I am booked up on the day he wanted...not that I know what day that might be...Perhaps he can train on his roaster in the Middle East as well...
In addition, I reminded him of the following:
When you self-import a roaster from overseas you will have no parts nor warranty, nor training, nor after sales support within Australia.
Please also be mindful that you will be responsible for:
- Freight forwarder fees as a self-import import of this magnitude is not possible- allow $500
- Import duty 5% of total invoice
- GST 10%
- Currency exchange- allow 5%
- Freight within Australia
- Roaster certification charges
If he imports, his roaster must *be certified for use in Australia. Much of the electrical wiring and all of the gas train will need to be replaced with items which meet our regulations. Operation of uncertified appliances is dangerous and illegal and failure to certify will void your business insurance should any “accident” occur. This costs thousands of dollars.
My advice to him was to allow at least $10k over his purchase price for these charges.
In addition, in some states, you need to get the roaster and flue certified by your plumber as a type “B” installation...
There are other brands of roasters available and some actually look very similar to Has Garanti. A Garanti roaster is not a Has Garanti and a rebadged one of the other couple of brands are not Has Garanti either. Some of the competitors are actually assembled in little more than chook sheds.
The work Mark does on Has Garanti roasters in QLD includes fitment of the entire gas train, most of the electricals and includes Australian certification. This makes for a roaster which works superbly in our conditions. It has a multitude of differences to older Has Garanti roasters and little in common with other Turkish brands other than they look like roasters too... Plain and simple, its superior in my opinion. Its why I purchased one.
As for the rebranded stuff, I have a business associate who purchased a 10kg roaster of another brand- and cant roast more than 7kg in it... :(
Just a little story which may be of interest...
Yes indeed, Chris, all of the above,
but I am afraid all the budding young importers in the throng will get the wrong idea about freight charges....(you said, freight forwarder.... say allow $500.00...)
Let me explain.
Your friendly Turkish manufacturer will advise a price words to the effect of "delivery to port of Sydney" or some such thing.
But that will only be the cost of the sea freight......ALL the other freight and landing charges will go way above that.
As an example, we recently imported a similar size & weight package direct from Turkey. As you know we are importers and have all the necessary arrangements in place. All we need do is pick up the phone.
It still cost us $2000.00 to pick up ex factory in Turkey, and land the said crate in our roasterie in Canberra.
I will repeat....$2000.00 Oz dollars incporporating all landing charges including Customs Duty, but not incl GST which is a further impost if you are not registered for GST and cant claim it back.
Then after that of course, you can set about doing all your own set up and commissioning at your own cost with no local back up, well explained above *;)
It is easy to *outsmart* yourself when you think you can import something for cheaper than it can be found here.....and a rude shock awaits!
Importing machinery direct ike this is not really for hobby end users or even small traders, especially if they were thinking to
a) save money
b) start operating straight away
c) find easy backup service.
One of the biggest killers is lost time.
How much is your time worth, when you have to for example, guess at how to upgrade the gas train, try various things by trial and error, wait for parts to arrive, try them and decide something alse was actually required, have to fit that in with when your gas subbies might be able to turn up, and lose weeks of time, before you even start trying to work out how to run & use the equipment......................................... ............. when you thought you were going to plug it in and start selling coffee out the door straight up......
One of the main reasons I believe people sometimes decide to import stuff direct, is because they are looking for a lower price. It doesnt work that way. Pay the ransom, and enjoy!
Food for thought I hope.
very first CS site sponsor
25 years experience roasting;
have owned up to 5 commercial / industrial coffee roasters;
Many years direct importing experience