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Thread: FZ-RR 700 Baby Roaster

  1. #51
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    Re: FZ-RR 700 Baby Roaster

    Mate Im heading to Sydney tonight...not back till Sunday.

    Maybe drop in Tuesday...the beans are on me.

    Cheers

  2. #52
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    Re: FZ-RR 700 Baby Roaster

    I have just received my Baby Roaster from Chris at Talk Coffee :) and I am busting to have a go at this little roaster(my first roaster) however I was wondering if there is a breaking in procedure. Also there is a very small amount of surface rust on the centre shaft which I imagine will go after the first roast but will those beans be ok to use or should I do a sacrificial roast to be sure...to be sure?

    Cheers

    Jaymad




  3. #53
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    Re: FZ-RR 700 Baby Roaster

    Quote Originally Posted by 0610071508030C07620 link=1277375158/51#51 date=1279788809
    I have just received my Baby Roaster from Chris at Talk Coffee :) and I am busting to have a go at this little roaster(my first roaster) however I was wondering if there is a breaking in procedure. Also there is a very small amount of surface rust on the centre shaft which I imagine will go after the first roast but will those beans be ok to use or should I do a sacrificial roast to be sure...to be sure?

    Cheers

    Jaymad
    Hi Jaymad,

    Id definitely recommend a couple of sacrificial roasts to season the drum... Its the done thing with any metal drum ;)

    Enjoy...

    Chris

  4. #54
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    Re: FZ-RR 700 Baby Roaster

    OK, thanks Chris.

    Damn, do supermarkets sell green beans? :(


  5. #55
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    Re: FZ-RR 700 Baby Roaster

    Jaymad,

    Your cheapest beanbay bean will be a great seasoner - one of the finest quality....

    Use a Brazilian Pulped Natural or something.

    @ $8 per kilo, 2 X roasts of 200gm isnt going to kill you....

  6. #56
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    Re: FZ-RR 700 Baby Roaster

    @ $8 per kilo, 2 X roasts of 200gm isnt going to kill you....
    yep, cant argue with that. The thing is I told the Chief I wasnt buying anymore green beans for a while(a specific time frame was not given ;)), so I must only use what I have in the stash.

    Costa Rica Tarrazu SHB was the sacrificial bean for the roaster.

    Having a play with the roaster while destroying some beans was interesting. From a newbie the hardest thing so far was working out the easiest way to remove the drum, while operating, from the base/drive unit without moving the base/drive unit off centre to the burner. Only 2 roasts in Im sure that will be solved soon enough.

    With the drum seasoned now :D Im looking forward to tasting some of the beans.

    I have a feeling Im going to like this baby roaster....a lot.

    Cheers

    Jaymad

  7. #57
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    Re: FZ-RR 700 Baby Roaster

    Quote Originally Posted by 796F786A777C73781D0 link=1277375158/55#55 date=1279817681

    I have a feeling Im going to like this baby roaster....a lot.

    Cheers

    Jaymad

    Looking forward to getting mine tomorrow ;)

  8. #58
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    Re: FZ-RR 700 Baby Roaster

    Id say roast the beans to season drum, keep the beans, try them, if you like it still drink it, if not throw them away. At least you now have a 50:50 chance of using the beans.

  9. #59
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    Re: FZ-RR 700 Baby Roaster

    Thanks Dennis and Mark for a great afternoon seeing the baby in action.

    Fantastic and logical explanation of the why and how and what to look for. Sampling and playing with so much variation and on a small scale. A perfect sample roaster which fits our needs brilliantly.

    Made the trek from North West Sidernee very worthwhile. ;)

    Looking at my nice shiny baby roaster right now, trying to decide which bean gets it first ;D

    Unfortunately though, back to Bunnings tomorrow morning as the Gasmate stove I bought on the way home has a non functioning igniter.... >:(

    Thanks again guys, great afternoon.

    Chris & Natalie

  10. #60
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    Re: FZ-RR 700 Baby Roaster

    Quote Originally Posted by 7C746C667B1F0 link=1277375158/58#58 date=1279960290
    Fantastic and logical explanation of the why and how and what to look for.
    I hope you can share some of that info?

  11. #61
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    Re: FZ-RR 700 Baby Roaster

    Quote Originally Posted by 2A3C2B39242F202B4E0 link=1277375158/59#59 date=1280031038
    Quote Originally Posted by 7C746C667B1F0 link=1277375158/58#58 date=1279960290
    Fantastic and logical explanation of the why and how and what to look for.
    I hope you can share some of that info?
    Sure

    http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1277375158/49#38


  12. #62
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    Re: FZ-RR 700 Baby Roaster

    Hmmm.... I definitely need to get one of these *:)

    Ill be getting in touch with you Chris (Talk Coffee)

  13. #63
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    Re: FZ-RR 700 Baby Roaster

    Quote Originally Posted by 233522302D262922470 link=1277375158/55#55 date=1279817681
    Having a play with the roaster while destroying some beans was interesting. From a newbie the hardest thing so far was working out the easiest way to remove the drum, while operating, from the base/drive unit without moving the base/drive unit off centre to the burner. Only 2 roasts in Im sure that will be solved soon enough.
    Hi Jaymad

    For this just make sure you lift with the drive end straight up and you should be right. If you lift with both handles up you should be able to remove it easily.

    Cheers...Mark

  14. #64
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    Re: FZ-RR 700 Baby Roaster

    Quote Originally Posted by 507C75757676417C726067766160130 link=1277375158/62#62 date=1280106457
    If you lift with both handles up you should be able to remove it easily.
    Ok I will try that, thanks Mark.

    While I have your attention.....Does it matter how close the flame is to the drum? .... Do you use full heat at the start of a roast? ...... What does the first sign of smoke mean? .....When I pop the cap to look at the colour change of the beans what am I looking for? .... Do these jeans make me look fat? :-/

    Sorry to fire these type of questions at you but Im new at this and the baby roaster is like no other roaster(as previously stated), so why would I follow other threads. I realize you can change each roast or play with the roast to achieve different flavours with temp changes, and thats a learning curve, I would just like to know some basic fundamentals. Living in country Vic its not like I can pop in for a demo, so I guess you guys are my life line. ;)

    Cheers

    Jaymad


  15. #65
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    Re: FZ-RR 700 Baby Roaster

    Cant imagine how cold it is there Jaymad I had a laugh

    Quote Originally Posted by 5D4B5C4E5358575C390 link=1277375158/63#63 date=1280125302
    Does it matter how close the flame is to the drum?
    Yes...the closer it is the more heat will be generated on the drum. High flame more heat as it is closer or hitting the drum...more gas is burning etc etc

    Quote Originally Posted by 5D4B5C4E5358575C390 link=1277375158/63#63 date=1280125302
    What does the first sign of smoke mean?
    In very basic terms that the volatile compounds (hydrocarbons) in the bean are evaporating. Compounds such as carbohydrates (ie sugars) start to evaporate once heated and what you start to see is smoke. Its probably an indication that the temp inside the bean is around 150deg as this is when hydrocarbons start to vaporise. A good thing to know as it is a more accurate guide than any temp probe as you are only really measuring the condition outside the bean. A small amount of smoke will appear before the yellow stage but you will know that it is getting towards yellow. You can use this as a guide for determining how fast the temp is climbing and will also give you an idea how the roast is progressing. There is a hell of a lot more going on here but you can get so caught up with the whole science behind the chemical reactions. It can be realy confusing but to simplify it for those that arent that familiar:

    The two really important occurances in the process are:
    - Caramalisation - Different types of sugars produced at different temps (oxidation of sugar). Some sweeter than others...produces the distinctive caramel flavour or nuttiness. The temps you apply, when and for how long will impact this. Going to high on heat and for too long these will start to burn. You could argue that by extending the period of time when some of the sweeter sugars like glucose are produced you can impact the sweetness of the roast.
    - Maillards Reaction - different from caramalisation as requires the presence of amino acids reacting with sugars. This also requires heat and the by product is a range of odours and flavours. Proven to be very complex in Coffee hence the large number of flavours and smells reported (I think around 800 from memory).

    The two process are similar to the naked eye (browning) and for most of us for our tastebuds as well. The coffee cuppers with well trained pallets will pick up a lot more of the results of Maillards but for most of us the things such as Chocolates and Caramels are the most obvious. Acidic fruits also more so with Mailards as we familiarise easily with them. I had the opportunity to see Tracy Allen at work and his sensory skills were amazing...but that comes with 20 years of training!!!

    Some simple understanding of the above can really help with your roasting. I like to think of it in sections and that each section can impact the end result. If I want to really experiment I might just focus on one section at a time and see what impact that has. As home roasters you can have this luxury to experiment as much as you like....thats half the fun...your not going to lose any business.

    Quote Originally Posted by 5D4B5C4E5358575C390 link=1277375158/63#63 date=1280125302
    When I pop the cap to look at the colour change of the beans what am I looking for?
    Kind off answered this above...each change is a section characterised by a reaction due to the increasing temperatures. I could sit here and try and explain in detail but I think the above should give you a start to at least research some more into those two key reactions taking place. There is some really good info out there so Google away.

    The main difference with this roaster is that you are changing the condition these reactions take place in. As heat is the underlying accellerant...the way in which it is applied will have an effect. Thats why we have so many different ways of cooking...as they all generally produce different results ;)

    Happy roasting and hope this helps some...

  16. #66
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    Re: FZ-RR 700 Baby Roaster

    WOW, that was a good answer. [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

    You have given me a good direction to go now. I will do a little more research and then roast away.

    Thanks for taking the time and effort Mark. Im sure there are others that have just benefited from this reply.

    Cheers

    Jaymad

  17. #67
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    Re: FZ-RR 700 Baby Roaster

    Picked mine up today. Thanks for the demo, Mark. Looking forward to trying it out on the weekend. *:)

  18. #68
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    Re: FZ-RR 700 Baby Roaster

    Six roasts down and have already learnt a great deal. Initially I was concerned that it might be difficult to achieve an even, medium roast, but a good shake at 1-2 minute intervals seems to make a real difference (3 nice, even, medium roasts of Peru, with positive results in the cup after ~30 minutes).

    Would be interested to hear how others are applying the flame. So far I have set the burner (Gasmate Butane Camp Oven) at around 40% for 4 minutes, down to ~25% into FC around 6-7 minutes. From there I drop the flame down very low for another two or three minutes before removing it altogether, dumping the beans around 11-12 minutes.

    So far finding it difficult to stretch time between FC and SC in a controlled way, but practice should see this improve. FC seems to go on for up to 2 minutes leading into SC (hard to tell this with little experience of this roaster so far).

    Interesting to smell the drum after just 6 roasts. Strong smells of butter popcorn, honey and caramel. Tends to back up the theories on development of sugars, as there is a real sweetness to the smell of the drum.

    Looking forward to hearing from others as to how they are getting on, it is certainly a very interesting device.

  19. #69
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    Re: FZ-RR 700 Baby Roaster

    Hey guys...

    Forgot to mention in previous posts but one thing that may help some of you with your roasting. You will see posted around the traps that a lot of emphasis is put on 1st crack, what time in happens and how long after before you dump etc etc. This is all important but dont worry too much on the timing of when this happens as it really is just when the beans get to a certain temperature...you can make it happen at all sorts of times, there is no right or wrong way only that it will have an effect on the roast and that you should explore these differences in order to come to your own conclusions. You might hear that 1st crack has to be at this time or within this time etc etc. If you believe this without really understanding it then you are limiting your opportunities for exploration. What is more important is how you got there.

    A lot of emphasis is put on post 1st crack and extending it out but dont under estimate what is happening before 1st crack as this is what leads up to caramalisation and Maillards. Different types of sugars are produced at different temps mostly before the beans have really browned so as I mentioned before this can impact the roast. Remember that they are both reacting with the heat and also that Maillards needs reducing sugars and amino acids to accur and give off those flavours and aromas.

    Just dont like seeing people get too worried about having to hit things in certain time limits as it does freak the new roasters out. Its not that unusual for commercial roasters to have roast times over 30 mins...there is an argument for slower roasting (does not mean baking) so you may find some results you like by extending it out more (not suggestign to this extreme). Coffee beans only have small amounts of moisture (10-12%) so its probably best to go slower at the start before 1st crack before the beans are too dry. If you go to long after 1st crack you might end up with a brittle, light and tasteless bean.

    Quote Originally Posted by 6D6A6B7D7D771E0 link=1277375158/67#67 date=1280153396
    So far finding it difficult to stretch time between first crack and second crack in a controlled way, but practice should see this improve.first crack seems to go on for up to 2 minutes leading into second crack (hard to tell this with little experience of this roaster so far).
    Try switching the flame off once a bit into 1st crack and you will slow the process and if you need to speed it up later on just turn it back on. Its only a small chamber so the changes will happen fairly quickly. What you are doing is really good so far. Once the beans are hot enough they will have enough thermal mass to keep climbing by themselves so dont be afraid to switch off the heat at points all together.

    Cheers


  20. #70
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    Re: FZ-RR 700 Baby Roaster

    Finally grabbed one of these...

    Did 2 sacrificial dark roasts of Robusta to "break" it in.

    Then did a roast of Kenya Kagunyu AA and I am finally getting the special bits from the roast that I couldnt achieve with my Gene Café - WOW *:D

    Now to do some roasts of my "special" beans... ;)

  21. #71
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    Re: FZ-RR 700 Baby Roaster

    Congrats emdebee,

    They really have given me food for thought...

    Its back to the old abbrustulaturo days ;)

    I have subtly altered the way I roast on my Has Garanti in light of the learning in the session Mark ran at Cuppacoffee on Saturday...

    I am hoping we see results in the cup as well...

    Enjoy *8-)

    Chris

    p.s- for those whod like a demo, well run one on saturday. Details: http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1163933911/14#14

  22. #72
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    Re: FZ-RR 700 Baby Roaster

    abbrustulaturo...

    Tried google translator and came up empty.

    What is that?

  23. #73
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    Re: FZ-RR 700 Baby Roaster

    So far, in my feeble experience ;)

    Air flow is really critical to get the "special" nuances out of the bean...

    Which is why I am so excited about the initial results VS my Gene.

    My only criticism of the design is that there ought to have been more horizontal room from the support to the base (with the vents) as the support has to be cleaned between every roast due to the build up of condensated (if thats a word?) chaff... minor issue - LOVE IT!!!


  24. #74
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    Re: FZ-RR 700 Baby Roaster

    Quote Originally Posted by 3B332B213C580 link=1277375158/71#71 date=1280303494
    abbrustulaturo...

    Tried google translator and came up empty.

    What is that?
    a Neapolitan word for a coffee roaster

  25. #75
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    Re: FZ-RR 700 Baby Roaster

    Quote Originally Posted by 04313C3B0F133F36363535500 link=1277375158/70#70 date=1280301107
    They really have given me food for thought...
    And me too!

    What I find most interesting is that using the baby roaster, or a similar process, was the conventional way of roasting at home, and the non-western world still embrace this method. And as home roasting has gained new popularity, rather than stepping all the way back to conduction, apart from the BBQ, most home roasters use a convection only method, perhaps in an attempt to somehow mimic commercial roasters. I think it would be great if you could mount a burner under a breadmaker and use the heat gun only occasionally!

    When I started out I was lucky enough to have a mentor by the name of Serge Siboni. With knowledge of the particular raw bean, Serge suggested I should mainly be concerned with the time taken to reach a particular end temperature and not be so concerned with first and second crack events. I still call it the "how to boil a frog" method and find that one of the most significant outcomes, is that the oils take far longer to migrate to the surface and stay fresher, longer.

    The Baby Roaster has become my new sample roaster. Being able to roast small batches to dark, medium, and light, then trying the results immediately enables me to tackle larger quantities with more confidence, as I know what Im aiming for.

    I love the fact that preparing good coffee, whether it be in a commercial environment or at home, is a ritual/ceremony. Home roasters obviously enjoy their ability to take part in another step of the from bean to cup process. Waiting for 4, 7, 10, 14 days or whatever to taste the results is fine and the anticipation may well be part of the enjoyment. I know I can be impatient though, and so love the way the Baby Roaster extends yet unifies the coffee preparation ritual.

    If you hadnt guessed already, Im having fun! :)






  26. #76
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    Re: FZ-RR 700 Baby Roaster

    I picked up my baby roaster on Saturday and did 2 roasts. Im a complete novice to drum roasting with gas, relying purely on what Ive learned about roasting from using the popper and Corretto over the past few years.

    So Im posting this so I/we can all learn from each others experiences with this baby...

    First, I gotta say how much fun it is to use, and so simple. Im using my existing dual 8mj burner camp stove hooked up to a 4kg gas bottle.

    I put 200g of Peru beans in, turned on the burner to full for a sacrificial drum seasoning roast. Got a fair bit of smoke as the chaff was coming off. Took the drum off a few times and opened it up to let some of the chaff out. Lots of sweet aromas on opening the drum each time, very nice.

    Looking inside the drum I noticed the beans were not roasting evenly. First crack happened about 9mins at which point I turned the burner to low and then off completely at rolling first crack about a minute later. I pulled the roast at around 11 mins as the beans looked about right. Tipped into the vac cooler. Never reached 2nd crack.
    As I said, quite an uneven roast, see pic Peru Roast 1. Most beans had black burn spots on them. Overall not a very dark roast. The Peru roasts really evenly in the Corretto and Gene. Post roast weight came in at 170g, 15% weight loss.
    I was tempted to toss the beans, but I was so curious to find out what they tasted like. So I cupped it and *[smiley=shocked.gif]... it was sweeter and smoother than the other methods used to roast thats for sure, and right after roasting. I was shocked!
    No grassiness, the acidity was mild and smooth. Loads of body. The shot poured really well as has been mentioned here before. It seems Im getting more coffee from the shots ie theyre not blonding till much much later, they just seem to be brown for longer. Dont understand why though, more solubles perhaps than air roasting? Not sure, but Im happy to get more coffee. I did get some bubbles on the crema though.
    Yesterday I got better shots and more sweetness, the bubbles in the crema were not there either. Again getting more coffee than roasts done in the Corretto or Gene. Dont take this as a direct Baby Roaster v Gene/Corretto, please. Its just my observation pulling shots from the same bean roasted in all 3 methods.

    I then did the 2nd roast on Saturday. 200g greens again. This time I fired up the burner on a med-low heat to ease into the roast and try and get a more even roast and less burnt beans. After 5 mins on med-low I cranked up the heat till the first snaps of first crack were heard then immediately turned the burners down to low and then off again just as rolling first started. Pulled at approx 12-13mins.Post roast weight 166g, 17% weight loss.
    The roast was a little more even, but darker. So its obvious that theres not enough agitation of the beans going on. I didnt cup these ones, I was just keen to get a better roast than the first.

    I then did a 3rd roast on Sunday, 200g of Peru again, this time taking the drum off at 1-2 min intervals and giving it a good shake. Again ended up with quite an uneven roast and some black/burnt beans.

    I havent cupped the 2nd and 3rd roasts yet, as Ive got some of the Peru thats come of age roasting in the Gene.

    So, now Im thinking of putting in a small baffle or two in there to help with agitation as it seems the beans are merely sliding in the drum as opposed to tumbling in the drum. To confirm this is happening, I put 2 different amounts of greens into the drum and turned just the roaster on without the burner to see whats going on:
    1. With 150g greens the drum just slipped around under the beans with no tumbling action
    2. With 200g beans I got some tumbling beans but still the drum just slipped under the beans
    I guess this explains the burnt spots on the beans and the burnt beans.

    Before any mods are undertaken...dads keen as his a retired metal worker...
    Im interested in some feedback from other baby roaster users and how their roasts are turning out, and see what you are doing.

    I just cant stop the feeling of wanting to get out there and keep trying, I just wish there were more hours in the day to do so!

    Ive attached pics of the first 2 roasts, taken without flash with the sun to my side.

    Enough from me, at least for the moment *;D

    Cheers
    Javabeen.




  27. #77
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    Re: FZ-RR 700 Baby Roaster

    Did you get the motorised version?

    Im picking up a gas burner from bunnings this morning, then going to have a play with a borrowed demo one today. Going to run some MM through it, as they are one of the gassiest beans I could think of. I usually wait at least a week before trying them, so will be interesting to see how drinkable they are straight after roasting in the baby roaster.

  28. #78
    Senior Member javabeen's Avatar
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    Re: FZ-RR 700 Baby Roaster

    Quote Originally Posted by 727F627164212223100 link=1277375158/76#76 date=1280793598
    Did you get the motorised version?
    Yes I did Borat. Its fantastic being able to drink them straight after roasting. Ill never be caught short of beans again. But going by the cupping results, this looks like it will become my primary roaster now. :)

    Let us know how your roast and cupping goes.

  29. #79
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    Re: FZ-RR 700 Baby Roaster

    Quote Originally Posted by 696275626166666D030 link=1277375158/75#75 date=1280756594
    Before any mods are undertaken...dads keen as his a retired metal worker...
    Im interested in some feedback from other baby roaster users and how their roasts are turning out, and see what you are doing.

    I just cant stop the feeling of wanting to get out there and keep trying, I just wish there were more hours in the day to do so!
    So true... I have a job on today and need to finish other things... BUT *;)

    Even the old hand units I have seen for roasting nuts back in the dark ages used baffles of sorts.

    Have not *got FZ-RR 700 - but can understand the issue of volume / size / type of bean and rotational speed having a direct impact on the issue of mixing and tipping...

    Beans are not all equal and neither is friction; and that is what is the driving factor, in a drum with no baffles... *A couple of copper or brass rivets etc *could be the turning point...

    Quote Originally Posted by 6076737362606C65656666030 link=1277375158/74#74 date=1280306528
    What I find most interesting is that using the baby roaster, or a similar process, was the conventional way of roasting at home, and the non-western world still embrace this method. *
    Yep and the $25 one is very basic but in essence it is still adhering to those same basic principles of long ago.. *A sealed drum, being turned over a heat source..... Less Air flow

    Almost like a KKTO *;) *When done correctly - An almost fully sealed unit, with a heat source and the beans are being agitated..... *More Air flow, but recirculated rather than lots of fresh cold air....

    As *Coffee Roasters stated in their great informative posts above ( Well done - Helped me understand many of my gut feelings) the issue with many big and commercial systems is the manner and way Air is used...

    While in a TO OR *Sealed drum roaster the management of AIR; is and can be quite different...

    • Note: No two systems will be identical but for me is helps to explain why after the same sort of temp profile and same bean; that the KKTO VS a HT gives a result in the cup - That to me is vastly different.


    I would suggest that posts 64 and 68 above by Coffee Roasters be made into stickies...

    Mainly because as I read it... Very supportive of the argument and approach that great coffee comes from the artist view that 2 + 2 = 5 *where 5 = great coffee.....

    In fact posts 64 and 68 are the best two posts of the year; if ya ask me...





  30. #80
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    Re: FZ-RR 700 Baby Roaster

    Quote Originally Posted by 393225323136363D530 link=1277375158/75#75 date=1280756594
    1. With 150g greens the drum just slipped around under the beans with no tumbling action
    2. With 200g beans I got some tumbling beans but still the drum just slipped under the beans
    I cant remember what Mark said the maximum capacity was, but can you try 300g and see if you get more tumbling?

  31. #81
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    Re: FZ-RR 700 Baby Roaster

    Hi Javabeen,

    Your roasts actually extremely good for little experience on the roaster.

    Dont be concerned too much about the eveness of the roast as it wont make a difference to the result in the cup. You can get it more even by shaking every 1-2 mins. As you are roasting with 100% conductive you have to realise that you will be giving up some eveness in the roast as the heat is being transferred mainly through the drum wall onto the uneven bean. I would strongly advise against making any modifications to the drum as it is designed this way to ensure the beans spend more time agains the surface of the drum.

    It is different to air roasting that will provide a more even look as air is wrapping more of the surface of the bean. That is why it is also esential in larger roaster to have air as you cant apply enough heat through the drum wall on larger batch sizes and also roast will be extremely uneven which would not suit a commercial scenario.

    Dont worry about the look, the coffee can actually even look burnt even when ground but will not taste that way. You arent sacrificing as much sugar and oils as if you were to add air to the process so a darker roast will generally retain more flavour and acidity than a darker roast in a different machine.

    If you wanted a purely even roast you would need to add air but then that changes the way the heat is applied to the beans. Looks can be very deceiving in relation to taste and as you are not using this roaster to sell coffee on a commercial basis then who cares if the roast is not as even..what matters at home is the results you get with taste and aroma. My darker roasts that reach a bit into second crack generally only have a weight loss on around 15% compared to when I do in commercial roasters at around 17%. What I believe you are experiencing in the extraction is that you are capturing more of these sugars and oils that will be present sooner.

    Keep trying...different profiles can produce some interesting results. It is a great learning tool if you are to ever progress to a commercial sized roaster as your senses and understanding of different elements applied in the process will improve. The fact that you have access to different roasting methods is an advantage which I would encourage...you cant learn as much by just using the one divice so experimentation with this roaster, the Behmor, Gene, I-Roast, Correttos etc will aid in you roasting development. I am actually having a play round on a Behmor and Heat Gun contraption at the moment just to try and further my understanding. Each has their own advantages and disadvantages..there is no such thing as the perfect roaster in my oppinion.

    Cheers....Mark

  32. #82
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    Re: FZ-RR 700 Baby Roaster

    Quote Originally Posted by 002C25252626112C223037263130430 link=1277375158/80#80 date=1280797312
    Your roasts actually extremely good for little experience on the roaster.
    Hi Mark,

    Thanks for the supportive words, thats one of the greatest things about the CoffeeSnobs site.

    Quote Originally Posted by 002C25252626112C223037263130430 link=1277375158/80#80 date=1280797312
    Dont be concerned too much about the eveness of the roast as it wont make a difference to the result in the cup.
    Yes, this is true as I mentioned about cupping the first roast. I thought it might be quite bitter. Instead it was just so sweet that the bitterness was in the background and pleasant against the sweetness, the way that bitter-sweet chocolate is pleasant.
    So anyone reading this please note that the uneven roast did not translate to a bad cup, quite the opposite in fact!

    Quote Originally Posted by 002C25252626112C223037263130430 link=1277375158/80#80 date=1280797312
    As you are roasting with 100% conductive you have to realise that you will be giving up some eveness in the roast as the heat is being transferred mainly through the drum wall onto the uneven bean. I would strongly advise against making any modifications to the drum as it is designed this way to ensure the beans spend more time agains the surface of the drum.
    I will hold off against any mods for the time being, now that I understand a little more about how this roasts.
    But Mark what about the beans that are not tumbling and getting their turn at contact to the surface of the drum? You know the ones that are stacked on top of the beans that are contacting the drum. I know that they eventually will get their turn at contacting the drum, but if you can improve the agitation just slightly so that more beans get to contact the surface, wont that improve the roast? Just wondering thats all.

    TG,
    I might throw in 300g next roast and just see what happens. Experimentation is the key with any new device I guess.

    Javabeen.

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    Re: FZ-RR 700 Baby Roaster

    Hey mate, just a quick shake every 1-2 minutes will change the position of the beans. I get my roasts quite even. You also get heat transfer from bean to bean and the pressurised heat from inside the drum.

    The roaster is designed for 200g..I think 300g will be pushing the limits and may struggle to supply enough heat evenly but no harm in trying and would be intersted to see how you go.

    Have fun...

    Cheers ;)

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    Re: FZ-RR 700 Baby Roaster

    Hi Javabeen,

    I too used my Baby Roaster for the first time on the weekend. I did a few sacrificial roasts first, just to get a feel for how it roasts and how much flame I needed on the burner.

    I chose some Sumatran Mandheling "Kuda Mas", as I have a large bag of it, and also because it’s a bean that I have never got very good results with in my modified popcorn machine. In the popcorn machine it would roast very unevenly, unless I stretched out the time to first crack to 9mins or more, and produced a rather bland, uninteresting coffee. For these tests I used 150g batches, so that I wouldn’t waste too much coffee while doing these test roasts (also, 2 x 150g roasts would give me around 250g roasted which is my average weekly consumption, so 150g batches would be ideal for me).

    I first tried 80% heat on the burner (a GasMate brand propane camping stove) and that hit first crack at around 5mins – way too fast. Then tried 60% - first crack still around 5mins. Even with 30% heat it still got to first crack in as low as 6mins, so obviously this copper drum doesn’t need much heat input.

    So what I ended up doing for my proper roasts was starting the roast with 4min on the lowest setting (there’s still considerable heat coming off that burner on the lowest setting), then increased it to 20% flame for 1min (beans were yellow by this stage), then increased it to 30% for 3mins (by which time first crack was starting), then reduced the flame to low as first crack was well underway and held it low for 2-3mins before increasing it to 30% to push it in to second crack, and dumped at the 14min mark at rolling second crack. Note that I also took the drum off and gave it a shake to mix the beans up about once every minute. This produced quite an even roast (more even then I used to get on the popcorn machine with this particular bean, surprisingly), and no scorch marks on the beans.

    Tried after an hour or so and it did have some bubbles in the crema, but much less than I’d get from a popper roast with coffee this fresh. By the following day though I was getting really good pours, and I am very impressed with how good this coffee tastes. And the aroma from the beans in the hopper and while grinding is just divine!

    regards,
    Bill

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    Re: FZ-RR 700 Baby Roaster

    Having done quite a number of roasts on my Baby Roaster the best advice for newcomers is:
    Follow Marks advice.
    Change one variable at a time.
    Stick to 200g of green beans, it was designed for this amount.
    If you want to season the drum, wipe inside with a paper towel, throw in 200g of beans and roast away. Every 1-2 minutes give the drum a shake. Keep the heat at high or close to it. Watch closely. At 4 mins open it up, smell and check the colour of the roasting beans. First crack will come around 8- minutes (depending on the bean), sometimes later. Drop the heat by at least 50% and let it continue to second crack. This is where you keep a close eye on the smoke and the smell. You can roast darker with no side effects, and for your first roast take it quite dark to experience what happens. Every time you open the drum you let out heat, so once you have a few roasts under your belt, try and avoid opening it too many times, unless you need to slow the roast.
    Once finished, you can throw away your first roast, or try it. The drum should be clean. I went through the whole spectrum with my first roast so threw it away. Second roast onwards have all been good.
    If it is windy, try a sheltered position, as this will affect the roasting time.
    Smaller size roasts will speed up the roasting time so stick to 200g. I get fairly even roasts, but do not judge them by appearance, but by taste.
    Stick to the one bean and play around with the flame, increasing or decreasing roast times. Taste, record, adjust and enjoy.
    At the beginning, aim for first crack at 8 minutes (full heat), reduce heat by 50% and aim for second crack at 12 minutes. Taste and modify.
    I have also put beans away and tried them 2 weeks post roast. The flavours mellow and develop. You will get very smooth espressos using this roaster. Lighter roasts will accentuate acidity and with some beans you want this trait to remain. However, it is ok to roast these types of beans a little darker with this unit (than with say a popcorn maker or heat gun) and still obtain fruity flavours.
    Enjoy!
    Stan

  36. #86
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    Re: FZ-RR 700 Baby Roaster

    Quote Originally Posted by 6549404043437449475552435455260 link=1277375158/80#80 date=1280797312
    I am actually having a play round on a Behmor and Heat Gun contraption at the moment just to try and further my understanding.
    Whats with the "contraptoin" :o thats the Prota type of the new TO Corretto ;D ;D ;D ;D

    Cheers Gra..

  37. #87
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    Re: FZ-RR 700 Baby Roaster

    After reading these baby roaster owner,s accounts of their own experiences, I,m really interested in getting one of those. Having a popper for some time now and was going to have one foot into the corretto stage, but the appeal of the manual model of the baby roaster is too tempting for me as a hands on tool to comtemplate a coretto. My feeling is, to be a CS roaster, one has to have a hands on approach, and the manual model of the FZ-RR would give a grass roots manipulation of heat adjustment, rotating - shaking, as well as smelling, seeing and hearing the bean. We are seeing a increasing interest and developing a cult following of this device because of it,s simplicity and the result of the best cup of any home roasting device, and judging by comments, even commercial machines. I,m in.


    Gary :)

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    Re: FZ-RR 700 Baby Roaster

    Just curious, but what does the motorised version of this baby rotate at?

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    Re: FZ-RR 700 Baby Roaster

    Quote Originally Posted by 213B363725332B2121520 link=1277375158/86#86 date=1280815957
    result of the best cup of any home roasting device, and judging by comments, even commercial machines
    Just for the record so as not to confuse anyone or mislead anyone I didnt say it is the best roaster available only that it is a different application that is probably impossible to do on a larger scale because of the need to introduce air into the process...All roasting methods and machines have advantages and disadvantages and everyone will have an oppinion as to what they prefer. Its almost impossible to make any absolute claims on such a subjective and oppinionated product such as coffee as someone else almost surely will have a different point of view.

    Like you said the simplicity, educational and hands on aspect of this devise is a plus....glad to see the interest

    Cheers

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    Re: FZ-RR 700 Baby Roaster

    Quote Originally Posted by 6667757B020 link=1277375158/87#87 date=1280820258
    Just curious, but what does the motorised version of this baby rotate at?
    50 rpm

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    Re: FZ-RR 700 Baby Roaster

    Hey guys,

    Follow Marks advice. Dont overthink it.

    I have had one for a week or so now...

    Went to Dennis shop Cuppacoffee and watched the demo from Mark and took one home.

    Did a sacraficial roast, and then roasted some Yemen, mainly because it falls out of the Behmor. Well not all of it, but enough... :(

    Did around three roasts of this and got pretty gnarly looking results, nothing like what Mark got with his two demo roasts at Cuppacoffee.

    This had me thinking I was doing something totally wrong and also that I was totally stupid as I had seen what Mark did and tried to replicate it.

    Regardless of how it looked, it was still a fantastic cup. Yemen.... ;D

    Anyway I went back to basics, and roasted a Peru Ceja, knowing it is a simple to roast, low chaff bean, to see what it would look like.

    Great looking roast, very uniform and fantastic coffee same day. I felt a whole lot less stupid (some may beg to differ...).

    My mistake was starting with a bean that had fallen out of the ugly tree and hit every branch on the way down and expecting a commercial looking roast, as Mark warns against.

    Start with a simple bean, get your head around it and move from there, but dont expect perfect roasts.

    As Mark says, it doesnt affect the flavour, just the look.

    It is great to be back on a roaster where infinite adjustability and experimentation are available. As Dennis said on the day, getting bogged down in the detail can remove the artisan side of roasting.

    Its a great roaster and you are getting great advice as well.

    Chris

  42. #92
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    Re: FZ-RR 700 Baby Roaster

    Tried some Zambia Terranova Peaberry today.
    Outside Temp 17 deg C, quite a breezy evening so the roast took a bit longer than normal.
    5 minutes at full flame (on an Engel camp stove).
    Reduced heat to about 60% until first crack started at 12 minutes.
    Reduced heat to 30%.
    At 19:30 very first sound of second crack, roast still light.
    At 20:40 turned off heat.
    At 21:25 stopped and cooled.
    These beans are quite dense and usually roasted with a lot of heat up front.
    At the start of second crack the smoke was light and the aromas intoxicating so I let the roast drag out and got a very even result.
    Normally I would stop the roast 20 seconds into second crack, but was aiming for chocolate notes.
    Made an espresso and got a luscious mocha and orange flavour, along with some pleasant acidity. A very nice roast.

    Stan.

    Photo taken indoors with flash, beans are actually a little bit darker, but evenly roasted.




  43. #93
    Gra
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    Re: FZ-RR 700 Baby Roaster

    For those that are thinking of getting one the baby roasters Supercheap Autos have the gas stoves for $14:98 :)

    Cheers Gra..

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    Re: FZ-RR 700 Baby Roaster

    Quote Originally Posted by 112437560 link=1277375158/92#92 date=1280834004
    For those that are thinking of getting one the baby roasters Supercheap Autos have the gas stoves for $14:98 *:)

    Cheers Gra..
    What brand is that? Bunnings have the GasMate brand for similar price.

  45. #95
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    Re: FZ-RR 700 Baby Roaster

    For campers the baby roaster and the TWIST handespresso would give a touch of "boutiqueness" to their experience. Only thing would be figuring out how to grind the beans hee hee ;D. Only thing i can think of is the good old hand grinders. Hmmm... is there such a device as a portable powered grinder?

    Gary

    PS You guys are getting me salivating about the baby roaster and i,m trying to save every single dollar til the time comes. All your fault...

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    Re: FZ-RR 700 Baby Roaster

    Quote Originally Posted by 5255404F42210 link=1277375158/91#91 date=1280833565
    Tried some Zambia Terranova Peaberry today.
    Outside Temp 17 deg C, quite a breezy evening so the roast took a bit longer than normal.
    5 minutes at full flame (on an Engel camp stove).
    Reduced heat to about 60% until first crack started at 12 minutes.
    Reduced heat to 30%.
    At 19:30 very first sound of second crack, roast still light.
    At 20:40 turned off heat.
    At 21:25 stopped and cooled.
    These beans are quite dense and usually roasted with a lot of heat up front.
    At the start of second crack the smoke was light and the aromas intoxicating so I let the roast drag out and got a very even result.
    Normally I would stop the roast 20 seconds into second crack, but was aiming for chocolate notes.
    Made an espresso and got a luscious mocha and orange flavour, along with some pleasant acidity. A very nice roast.

    Stan.

    Photo taken indoors with flash, beans are actually a little bit darker, but evenly roasted.
    Nice roast Stan. Never taken it that long in this device before so good to see you still got a nice result from it. Looks like you had steady progression through the roast which is important. If the flame falls off to much and the roast stalls and bean temp drops that is when you tend to get a baked result. Its pretty hard to stall in such a small chamber anyway. Interesting to see that the acidity was still present after the length of time between 1st and second and drop...might experiment with that in this device. The key might be the slower progress in the beginning to 1st you had. Given me some food for thought though, thanks for posting the results

  47. #97
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    Re: FZ-RR 700 Baby Roaster

    Quote Originally Posted by 6C594A2B0 link=1277375158/92#92 date=1280834004
    For those that are thinking of getting one the baby roasters Supercheap Autos have the gas stoves for $14:98Smiley

    Cheers Gra..
    K-Mart also have their "Gasmaster" brand for $15.

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    Re: FZ-RR 700 Baby Roaster

    Hi , lm interested in somthing like this later on as well , can you get em stainless steel at all as lm a bit worried about using copper as a vessel ( my daughter had high copper in her blood from using the pill ...apparently our bodies arent great at getting rid of excess copper :-/ )

    Cheers ken

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    Re: FZ-RR 700 Baby Roaster

    Aren,t all the water and gas pipes made of copper?

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    Re: FZ-RR 700 Baby Roaster

    Behmor Coffee Roaster
    Has anyone lately roasted beans on the baby roaster or have any feedback to offer? Haven,t had luck searching for user,s reviews on the net. Anyone have any links to post for us to see? Cheers. Gary

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