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Thread: Aillio R1 Bullet

  1. #251
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    I spoke to someone from aillio at mice, i believe his name was jacob. He said he had committed himself full time to getting the bullet through the australian red tape, and a release was to be soon. In turn i asked what is that 3 months 6 months or a year. Body language was pointing towards 6months away.

  2. #252
    Senior Member readeral's Avatar
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    Mmm bugger. I did wonder if it might've been sent back for revisions or something, like in the area of fire/hazard management. A 6 month turn around suggests some sort of adjustment would have to be made.

  3. #253
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    Espresso Company launched a new web design this week - https://espressocompany.com.au/ with the Bullet given prominent billing on their carousel. Doesn't mean anything, but at least they have specs etc. on their own website now! A bit overdue...
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  4. #254
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    Al that is probably good news for your order, from memory to get a RCM (Regulatory Compliance Mark) you need an Australian agent and address (I assume someone to sue/grab when someone electrocutes themselves/gets electrical interference/etc). Might be worth PMing Espresso Company to find out the story, they are a sponsor here.

  5. #255
    Senior Member readeral's Avatar
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    The ECA partnership has been secured for a long time, so in terms of the RCM _process_ I doubt this is indicative of anything, but it could be. I just reckon they thought it was time for a refresh, and the bullet is close enough so it was worth including it in their updated content.

    Also I'm trying really hard not to hassle them about it :P It'll arrive when it does.
    Last edited by readeral; 12th May 2017 at 02:39 PM.
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  6. #256
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    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by readeral View Post
    Also I'm trying really hard not to hassle them about it
    You and me both, Readeral! My hard earned has been with my supplier of choice for over 12 months now, and although my Hottop is still going strong, I'm really looking forward to 500g - 1 kg roast capacity, with out having to build the thing myself!! ( before any corretto users get in and remind me I could have had the kind of capacity I'm after well over 12 months ago....

    At least the major bugs and improvements will have been worked out before they get in our hands!
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  7. #257
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ash View Post
    ( before any corretto users get in and remind me I could have had the kind of capacity I'm after well over 12 months ago....
    Never mate...
    If I was in a position to grab an Aillo Bullet, I would have jumped in boots and all from the get-go.
    Looks like a terrific little roaster...

    Mal.
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  8. #258
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    Any more updates in regards to the roaster? I have a deposit down with Talk Coffee but the wait is really hurting.

  9. #259
    Senior Member readeral's Avatar
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    3 months down, probably another 3 months to go.

    I get the impression that Aillio decided to lump their AUS certification in with UK accreditation. Both by the information on the Bella Barista website, from daniellj and his conversation at MICE, and by the similar timings proposed.

    It would makes perfect sense from a financial and manufacturing perspective to seek to meet/exceed the accreditation requirements for both markets and manufacture one product for both. Any substantial change in design for one market (to meet accreditation) would require re-accreditation in another which is a terrible loop to be in, and there's no way that Aillio would have one manufacturing process for Australia and one for Europe on top of the already different manufacturing process for 120V market.

    So - hold on y'all. At least its gonna have been put right through the wringer and (hopefully) be well and truly reliable and safe.

    The flip side is, if they do launch in both markets at the same time (which wouldn't be unlikely) anyone that's on the fence would want to get a pre-order in before the demand pushes availability back a further 6 months.
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  10. #260
    Senior Member readeral's Avatar
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    I really do feel for those who have had their cash laid down for this roaster for over 12 months though.
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  11. #261
    Senior Member Magic_Matt's Avatar
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    Sheesh. If it was a kickstarter project there'd be a lot of I-told-you-so right about now!

  12. #262
    Senior Member readeral's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic_Matt View Post
    Sheesh. If it was a kickstarter project there'd be a lot of I-told-you-so right about now!
    Of course the irony being that all those who fronted the cash for the initial self-import run have their roasters, and it's the second-wavers who have hurt the most! Although, they can get their cash back..
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  13. #263
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    Here's hoping that your guesstimate is right readeral! It does make sense, given that there would be a lot of similar requirements for both markets. Another 3 - 4 month wait after putting my cash down over a year ago doesn't worry me too much, although some official news/updates from Aillio would help reduce my anxiety levels. Particularly after seeing North American customers are getting production units delivered. I'm guessing that the different compliance regulations there make it easier to get to market quicker??

  14. #264
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    So an update from a pre-orderer - received a refund from Chris as there has been no update from aillio

    Wonder what is happening if the retailers have lost faith

  15. #265
    Senior Member readeral's Avatar
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    I last messaged them on the 17th July:

    Hi Al,

    We're still waiting. Believe me, as soon as we get the green light we will be sharing the news far and wide.

    Thanks for your patience! We can't wait ourselves, either!

    -- Taylor

  16. #266
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    Quote Originally Posted by readeral View Post
    I last messaged them on the 17th July:

    Hi Al,

    We're still waiting. Believe me, as soon as we get the green light we will be sharing the news far and wide.

    Thanks for your patience! We can't wait ourselves, either!

    -- Taylor
    Thats still no indication of where they are though, which is probably why the retailers have stopped taking preorders, coffeeparts has also stopped taking preorders as well

  17. #267
    Senior Member readeral's Avatar
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    Oh, yeah I'm just reinforcing what you posted.

  18. #268
    Senior Member readeral's Avatar
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    Aillio R1 Bullet

    So given you've been refunded... does that mean you're no longer "in queue"?

    Has anyone else here been refunded?

    *edit* I've received an answer from Chris, seems that those who preordered (and subsequently refunded) will get first dibs once an actual arrival is set.
    Last edited by readeral; 3rd August 2017 at 03:34 PM.
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  19. #269
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    Hoping this roaster will be available in the future, i had a deposit down for nearly 2 years but was refunded over the weekend. I am definitely keeping the money aside for when its available as I really prefer to do larger roast sizes as our household goes through almost 1KG in a week.

  20. #270
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    I'm hoping it'll be ready for xmas

    I actually reached out to eca (a week ago) for the first time since placing the order, this was the response, was a worthwhile update for me

    Unfortunately we are unable to provide you with any further clarification on the availability of the Bullet R1 in Australia.

    The unit is still currently progressing through active stage of the UL certification process. Essentially what they are looking to do is break down the Bullet and test each component within the unit to ensure it is compliant with the certification standards. Due to the Bullet being such a unique product to enter the market, there are no similar items that the Bullet is comparable to when testing these results, therefore the certification process has taken significantly longer than expected.

    Aillio, the team here at ECA would love to have the Bullet available for you however until the certification process has been finalised we are unable to confirm an eta into Australia.

    Whilst the process has been longer than expected, it has been a great opportunity for Aillio to see how the Bullet has performed with the units that were sold on the pre-order.
    With this data they have been able to make some adjustments to the Bullet with features and firmware so that when it is available we know that we have received a unit that has been tried and tested.

    We understand you have been waiting some time for the Bullet and we do apologise for this delay on behalf of Aillio. Whilst we are unable to confirm an eta into Australia, we are confident that once all certification processes have been finalised the final product we do receive once available will be a brilliant unit with great performance to roast on.

  21. #271
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    It seems to me that the certification is a global issue - which would make sense as UL is a global organisation - so Aillio would get certification once.
    I couldn't find anyone actually selling Bullets anywhere.
    All I could find was sites taking pre-orders in NZ and UK - so same situation as Australia.

    I read that the certification process can take a long time, especially if you are new to it/haven't been through it before.

    Hard yards getting a new product to market.

  22. #272
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    I have a deposit on a Bullet. Australian electrical standards have been common with Europe for many years. I don't believe that the delay of more than a year now is due to certification issues. It's simply a commercial decision to serve more important markets first. USA is now a case in point. As much as I would like it to be different with Aillio's very limited production capacity, I think unfortunately we might be waiting years for delivery.

  23. #273
    Senior Member readeral's Avatar
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    It's not certified for europe. Official suppliers in the UK are unable to stock it either.

    Given the inventors are Danish, I doubt very much that they're inclined to neglect Europe for the USD cash, and that they are dragging their heels. Talking to Charlie from Jetblack (himself having imported a number of espresso machines with new technology) he says its not surprising how long it has taken them to get it past certification.

    Given the certification is a systematic step through each component (as per cjm007's post) - hopefully that gives them confidence to fabricate a growing collection of parts ready for assembly once given the all clear.

  24. #274
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    I have been informed that it has CB certification (a global certification that includes Australia). UL and CE certifications are apparently being done and the cause for delay. In my experience in Australian appliance certifications (both UL and CE), a year-long delay is simply implausible. I don't want to get into an argument about it but it's hard to believe that it has obtained certifications for sale in the USA but the Australian/NZ certifying authorities are confounded (for more than a year now) as to how to test it. Mention has been made about unique Australian requirements eg the power cord!!! An IEC power cord with an Australian plug has been certified for over 20 years!! I wish I was more positive but as time goes on, I'm less hopeful that we will see this machine in Australia any time soon.

  25. #275
    Senior Member readeral's Avatar
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    Well the fact that UL and CE certifications exist in addition to the CB certification suggests to me (who knows very little about anything) that there's a reason/need for additional certification types - possibly because CB is less rigorous? Given the number of new products that have 1-2 year delays for launch in Australia after a US launch, it certainly seems that way.

    I doubt Australian authorities are confounded how to test it at this stage - I'm sure it would have been an issue initially (being the first ever induction roaster in the world) but I'm sure they worked that out 6+ months ago. I'd suggest that Aillio's design/engineering/prototyping/manufacturing iterative cycle is slower than larger manufacturers given any change is going to require considering new (for the company) approaches to certification blocking issues. Plus keeping costs down.

    It is fair to expect that once a design is submitted for review that it might take 3-4 months depending on how much work the certifying body has on. If there are multiple changes required, then it's reasonable to suggest it could take a year.

    Not saying you're wrong - but in every interaction I've had with the company it is clear to me that they're frustrated and are as eager as ever to get this roaster into their (arguably more profitable) markets.

  26. #276
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    So the new air filter for the Aillio is letting a ton more air through and I've reduced the fan speed down a fair bit. How are others roasting with the new filter finding it?

  27. #277
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    So close to a year late now, has anyone got any updated information?

  28. #278
    Senior Member readeral's Avatar
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    Nope...

  29. #279
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    Spoke to ECA two weeks ago and they have placed me on an email notification list and will advise when the Bullet is available for distribution to retailers in Australia, maybe an option to consider for other anxious buyers.

  30. #280
    Senior Member readeral's Avatar
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    Yeah Iíve been on that list for 4 months.

  31. #281
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    anyone got any news yet?? almost MICE time again?!

  32. #282
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    New year, new promises :P

  33. #283
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    Itís about time ECA made some sort of statement, but hey... probs not.

  34. #284
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    Any update on availability? Or at least an ETA?

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    Received this from Aillio responding to my query:

    Sorry for the delay in getting back to you. Right now we are trying to get CB certification and we unfortunately do not know how much longer it will take, though we are hopeful that we may have in this summer. We realize a lot of folks in Australia are tired of waiting, but our hands are tied.

    -- Taylor

  36. #286
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    I hope it is the Northern Hemisphere summer he is referring to.

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    Thanks Nolbee. Is it CB cert or UL & CE certs that they have/haven't obtained?

    Hopefully there is an ETA soon, as this is dragging on a bit.

  38. #288
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    He only mentioned CB certification. It is certainly frustrating, I have had my order in since November 2015.

  39. #289
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    With CB certificate, SAA (for example) can issue a certificate within 5 days, or 1 day if expedited. You can guarantee that once the CB certification is done, the roasters will be on the next boat out to us.

    Other coffee gear will land before local certification is done, and will have stickers applied when being primed and tested.
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  40. #290
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    I was looking into the Aillio back in September 2016, as an upgrade to my Behmor.

    After research and advice ( from a very senior forum member) I decided to go for a new 1kg Gas Roaster from fleabay for around 5k.

    I concluded that the Aillio induction heating system would have to be complex and a maintenance risk.

    So, after 120 1kg roasts I could not be happier and have only refilled the 9kg gas bottle about 20 roasts ago.

    Given how long this thing is taking it seems to me some of you guys are missing out on the sheer fun of roasting on a bigger scale.

    One of my favorite things is to give away freshly roasted beans to coffee nuts who get very excited.

    Worth considering....



    roaster.jpg


    Quote Originally Posted by Nolbee View Post
    He only mentioned CB certification. It is certainly frustrating, I have had my order in since November 2015.

  41. #291
    Senior Member readeral's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brettreaby View Post
    I was looking into the Aillio back in September 2016, as an upgrade to my Behmor.

    After research and advice ( from a very senior forum member) I decided to go for a new 1kg Gas Roaster from fleabay for around 5k.

    Worth considering....
    I live in a small apartment in Sydney, there's no hope of me ever being able to have a permanently setup roaster.

    The bullet solves a whole bunch of non-starters of the 1kg gas roaster option, even if at the expense of introducing other concerns.
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  42. #292
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    I'm hoping ECA might look into this roaster too - which is ready to go and has some attractive features (like the chaff collector). They're looking for an Australian Agent. Only 400gms green beans per roast but able to do back to back roasts too.

    Cloud bean Technology - HOME

    Sniff

  43. #293
    Senior Member brettreaby's Avatar
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    Readerall - agreed, it looks like a very nifty unit. Hope it all works out for you.

  44. #294
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    brettreaby, Thanks mate. Might start looking at alternatives, possibly soon.

    SniffCoffee, That roaster appears good to me - Do you have any info such as cost? I might try to contact them directly.

  45. #295
    Senior Member readeral's Avatar
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    It honestly just seems like a ridiculous red tape problem that they're trying to navigate at this stage. The Aillio guys seem just as frustrated as we are, because they still haven't officially got into key European markets either. You can bet they'd hoped for a better return on their investment by 2018 than they've actually pulled in... Hopefully they've got good cash flow to keep on top of the delays! Has killed many a promising crowd sourced company in the past.

    The reason why Sweet Marias can sell in the US is anyone's guess, but my take is that they went a more direct route for the 120v variation's accreditation, given its really only the US that is a primary market for 120v. Also it has a slightly different design. However the US release ought to give us confidence in a global release soon.

    Don't give up hope y'all!
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  46. #296
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    Guarantee that it will arrive sometime between June and late September. I base this on the fact that I've had a pre-order in for two years now, and it is most likely to turn up when I am away for work......... And seeing as I am away for work from Jun until October, guess when it'll turn up

  47. #297
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    Quote Originally Posted by readeral View Post
    It honestly just seems like a ridiculous red tape problem that they're trying to navigate at this stage. The Aillio guys seem just as frustrated as we are, because they still haven't officially got into key European markets either. You can bet they'd hoped for a better return on their investment by 2018 than they've actually pulled in... Hopefully they've got good cash flow to keep on top of the delays! Has killed many a promising crowd sourced company in the past.

    The reason why Sweet Marias can sell in the US is anyone's guess, but my take is that they went a more direct route for the 120v variation's accreditation, given its really only the US that is a primary market for 120v. Also it has a slightly different design. However the US release ought to give us confidence in a global release soon.

    Don't give up hope y'all!
    SM do not list any certifications, so maybe they intend to have them fly in under the radar.

    As a casual observer it appears they contract out a company to make the roaster in small batches a few times per year, so it is not like they have a constant production line and inventory to clear out first. So in theory any necessary changes required for certification should be able to be implemented from one batch to the next. It was essentially a crowd sourced project, they needed the pre-orders to start the tooling process so perhaps it is just too much extra $ now to make the required changes to get them certified.

  48. #298
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    The wait for this seems nuts, but for those people waiting, it is a really satisfying machine to roast on.
    Also check out beta.roast.world for the new roast sharing site that is being integrated with the software

  49. #299
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter_Tomlins View Post
    The wait for this seems nuts, but for those people waiting, it is a really satisfying machine to roast on.
    Also check out beta.roast.world for the new roast sharing site that is being integrated with the software
    ....Which, for me, is why it is so frustrating - ie it ticks most of my boxes, but I can't get one....frustrating.

    Any MICE attendees spoke to ECA Re: Bullet's availability?

  50. #300
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    Behmor Coffee Roaster
    For those of you who received the update email about the Aillio roaster, the reasons for the delay appear to be now pretty clear. It appears that the delay is not due to delays caused by testing authorities. Aillio don't seem to be able to meet electromagnetic emissions standards and have to redevelop the inductive drum heating which requires the redesign of the PCB that controls drum heating. This type of inductive heating makes this roaster unique however emissions standards maybe why other roaster manufacturers have stayed with radiant and convection heating which require much higher power/energy. Let's hope that what makes Aillio so attractive can be made compliant too. Fingers crossed.
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