Blended pre or post roast?
And what level did you roast to?
Just curious, as my other half loves a huge chocolatey cup.
Long time lurker, first time poster.
I bought some of the Bolivia Green Mountain Estate as well as the Tanzania Kyaurinde from the last beanbay. Everyone on here raved about the awesome chocolate flavours from the Bolivian but I just couldnt seem to nail it. It was always a bit sad in the cup for me. I primarily drink milk-based drinks so I like something that can punch through the milk. I tried different roasts but just couldnt get it.
With the Tanzania, it was almost the opposite. It was almost too acidic. So I decided what the hell, Ill try a 50/50 blend. Im fairly new to roasting - Ive got a coretto setup thanks to this site and I just made my first exhaust fan-bucket bean cooler. Never blended anything before.
Anyway, the result was a ripping great coffee that has loads of chocolate, balanced acidity, and just a touch of sweetness. Works really well with milk, and not too bad as an espresso/long black either.
So anyway I thought Id share my first blending experience. Cheers and happy roasting.
Blended pre or post roast?
And what level did you roast to?
Just curious, as my other half loves a huge chocolatey cup.
It take it to about CS10 - around the 215 degree mark give or take. I wait for the first snaps of second crack, give it a little longer but I pull it before it gets to a rolling second crack.
Sounds interesting! Ive just picked up some Brasil/Columb and some Tanz/Eth from bean bay, and Im looking to try a similar blend - sthn for body/choc and Afr for flavour/spice.
I have had some interesting experiences trying to do an in-roast blend in with that combo, and had the africans end up as charcoal while the rest is CS7-8, but I also dont want to do multiple Corretto roasts - Id end up with too much to keep fresh.
I know it is probably sacriledge, but Ive been pondering with my setup whether pre-warming the pan with the sthns included for the first 2mins of erratic mixing, then dropping in the africans just before it all gets going might just bring both up in line ready for dropping at the end? Youd probably get a slight temp drop in the pan, but might just slow the afr down enough…
Just a random thought ::) might give it a go sometime…
Ill look forward to your cupping thoughts as this blend develops!
I blended pre-roast, and I didnt have any issues with roast variation. I got a nice even roast across the board. Im too lazy to time my roast by I generally get to rolling first crack about 10ish minutes and slow things right down to get to 2nd crack about 7-8 minutes later.
Could just be that these beans roast similarly. Dont know about other africans though
Just have to give it a whirl I guess!
Do like the sounds of rich and chocolatey :)
Well, Ive just this morning broken into a similar blend roasted about 7 days ago - 60% Brazil/Cuba (had the remains of a bag of cuba left - which I found pretty similar to brazil really) and 40% Tanz Uru.
And the results match Blergens finds. Lovely and chocolatey, sweet, with that hint of cocoa-textured spice you can get with African beans. Cut beautifully through the light soy we use - Ill update when I get to a doppio!
Im still pondering whether Ill try a late addition for the Uru - they certainly roasted darker in the pre-roast blend. I might do my pre-warm to 30degrees with the southerns in the pan, then add the africans at the 2 minute mark - they might just meet nicely near second crack!
Im rethinking the blended roast thing. With this bean combo, even with a late drop, the Uru is well into rolling second crack (CS 9) at 220 degress, while the Brazil was nowhere near second crack (maybe CS7 - second crack tends to happen at 222-223 degrees with Brasil).
In a doppio with the latest batch (7 days post) Im finding it hard to remove the bitterness even with a coarse grind & fast pour (possibly due to over cooked Uru) but it also has little body and crema disappears quite quickly - which is unusual with a Brazil included - I wonder if that part is under roasted. And you can certainly pick which bean is which by eye!
Anyhow - now ive got to work out how to drink 600g a week to justify 2 batches!* :)
Any other ideas?
Well, Im removing my Akubra will will now commence to eat it!Originally Posted by 6342544E40494E4940655E644841414242270 link=1321445123/7#7 date=1322951856
This liquorice all-sort looking pre-roast blend, which I must confess I almost resigned to the garbage last weekend as being too thin & bitter (almost undrinkable as a doppio at 7 days post roast) has slowly started to come good. I was expecting a week of drinking my mistake - but Im being surprised every day.
We are now at 13 days post roast, and the crema is finally starting to settle (it was absolutely exploding out up till now - looked like the most horrible gusher - although time & final volume was spot-on), the body is thickening up, and the flavour is now a very deep, dark chocolate. Havent had it in milk yet, but I think it will really cut through well.
So, moral of the story - keep trying your mistakes - they may pan out with enough rest! (except that one that tasted like cigarette ash - that was unlikely to improve ;D)
And that 50/50 of Bourbon & Uru is starting to look like a winner!
I have never liked the Bolivian chocolate blend. For me, a full bodied light roast with irresistible hints of chocolate and banana is ideal for the first and last cup of the day.
just enjoying 4 bean blend on day six post-roast
Peru Ceja de Selva
Panama Bouquette de Eleta
Indian Mysoor Nuggets
this a pre-blended and produced a lovely even roast pulled at the first snaps of second crack.
Getting huge cocoa/chocolate notes with hints of spice and fruit with heaps of body and a lingering aftertaste.
was great as an espresso with still a little bit of brightness but this should settle down over the next week or so (if it lasts that long!), as a flat white it was brilliant with many accolades coming from family members;) :) :)
Hey fellow blenders!
Been meaning to join in for a few years now, better late than never!
Blergen, that formulation sounds superb, always after the choc notes myself..might have to buy some myself on bean bay & try it out. On the list it goes!
Been working on a spicy blend of late, getting there with some Eth. Limu, blended with Colombian & a Kenyan. Looking at buying some Aceh Bitang Gr. 1.
Anyone have any ideas on beans with spice nuances? Any tips much appreciated.
Greenman, is it the Sumatran/Indian that gives the spice in your enticing blend?
the subtle spices are coming from the Sumatran with the Indian adding heaps of body, still improving as each day passes :) :)Originally Posted by 1C3325251B560 link=1321445123/11#11 date=1331038286
Cool, thanks Ill keep this in mind for sure!
Hi Greenman, what kind of percentages are you using the Indian in your blend? 20 to 30% or more?Originally Posted by 30253232393A3639570 link=1321445123/12#12 date=1331097190
[QUOTE%=5547495F43260 link=1321445123/14#14 date=1331112088]Hi Greenman, what kind of percentages are you using the Indian in your blend? 20 to 30% or more? [/QUOTE]
they roasted really well together producing a lovely even blend :)
Originally Posted by 362334343F3C303F510 link=1321445123/15#15 date=1331118704
Interesting. My current blend is
Roasted to 2nd crack and dumped after 15 seconds after the start of 2nd crack (100gms 12.15 minutes).* After 3 days it is a full bodied smooth blend and starting to have the cocoa that I like. Not a whole lot of oil though.* I might experiment with equal portions of the 3 and maintaining 40% Columbian and see what that does.
Going to try roasting my original blend but increase the beans to 120gms thereby reducing the roasting time to around 10 to 11 minutes (I think) and see what that does to the taste and then do another roast using the equal portions blend maintaining 40% Coumbian.* Im thinking the reduced roasting time might produce an oilier roast? Cant wait for the weekend to experiment.* *:)
thanks for the tips everyone, I have just roasted the Special K for the first time so might try it straight and then thinking of blending it with some Ethiopian Gambi
Hi greenman, I did the above blend and it really is a much more even blend than my original. with the addition of a chimney Ive managed to get 2nd crack at around 8 to 9 minutes and more oil evident on the beans. Seems to give me a smoother and full bodied espresso. I am getting hints of hazelnut and slight floral tones.Originally Posted by 60727C6A76130 link=1321445123/16#16 date=1331127494
I agree that the Tanzanian is very bright and acidic on its own. Its almost like dark unsweetened cocoa in character. Paired 50/50 with Sulawesi blue however and its a stunning mocha. Just the right acidity, heavy body and spiced sweet aftertaste. Brilliant in milk.* :P But, you have to wait 10 days post roast to get the magic.* :-/
Both roasted 2-3mins past RFC.
From my sampling this morning I get a citrus zest upfront, florals in the mid palate, coconut resting on a rich chocolate base. Im sure someone with better roasting skills could make more of it.
Does anyone know why the Tanzanian is more acidic? What is the key factor that changes it compared to other beans?
Hi Jenny, the Tanzanian and several other African beans I have tried tend to have high acidity with citrus and floral notes, some have berry flavours, roasting them really dark can tone the acidity and bring out more chocolate/cocoa, every growing region has its own characteristics, thats the beauty of home roasting, discovering all of the different flavour profiles and combining them together to enhance the flavours in the cup--dont ya just love it ;) :D :D :DOriginally Posted by 7A757E7E696471697C7F62100 link=1321445123/20#20 date=1337018640
I've come across/developed the following blend which the wife and I quite like:
75% Peru Ceja de Selva Estate
25% Tanzanian Faircracked Pulper
I roast using an iCoffee in 150gm batches - and I did the following:
2x 150g CS8/9 roasts (15-17 min) Peru
1x 200g CS 9 roast (25-32 min) Peru
1x 150g CS 9+ roast (20-22 min) Tanzanian
This gave me a really nice (milk based) coffee. The wife loved it (50mL double) in 250mL milk, and I really enjoy it (60mL double with 50mL-150mL milk). It showed well at the Golden bean with a silver placing. I've played about a little bit using Elephant Hills (instead of Peru) and Ugandan Kisoro (instead of the Tanzanian) and I find the results that just worked best/nicest for us was the above.
Just need to name the beast - will have to ask my little off sider (3 yr old daughter who helps measure out and taste the beans) what her thoughts are.
Digging up an old thread here, but I am looking at producing the same nice chocolatey blend espresso and was wondering if it is possible to get this from a single bean, or do I have to blend to get the taste I am after... I usually like a full body, choc nutty flavour milk based latte...
Lot's of deeply roasted beans can give great cocoa flavours (brazil, ethiopians) but can end up a bit dry (like a spoonful of cocoa powder!). Combining this with a PNG or Indo bean can add some nice caramel sweetness & syrupy mouthfeel - that's what I've found :-)
So mocha java for me if I'm after chocolate!
ok... I pretty new to this, so please bear with me...
do I start off with a 50-50 mix? the "french mix" i buy from my local roaster has 4 or 5 different blend in it, so seems overly complex to get that flavour
I've found that pretty classic espresso blends with a good Ethiopian in the mix can produce deep chocolate flavours. I've been using:
50% Brazil Pulped Natural
25% Sumatran Gunung Bandahara
25% Ethiopian Gambella Sundried
The Brazil provides a good base. Sumatran excellent body and sweetness. Ethiopian some complexity, perhaps some florals and lots of chocolate if roasted sufficiently.
Just a query - I've never really nailed down the concept of a 'base' bean. I hear you loud and strong on the Sumatra/Ethiopian mix (I love different combo of this formula!) but what do you reckon the 'base' brazil brings to the mix? Is it kinda like choko in the apple pie? Something a bit flavourless that just packs out the weight? Or is there an inherent 'coffee-ness' that might be missing in a mocha/java on its own?
I am a fan of mocha java also, have experimented with lots of different ratios but generally find that 60 / 40 - Eth / Indo works well.
However for non snobs, i have found they like it better when i have used a base bean such BPN just like Kwantfm.
I find that it smooths out a lot quicker after roasting and as you alluded to, it creates a backdrop of generic / smooth coffee-ness for the mocha java to shine against.
I must admit, I haven't done much in the way of 'southerns' lately as I always found them a bit generic - so then wondered why I bothered! But I should have another go with a straight M/J over brazil or simialr (I've just got some peru currently - not quite southern though). Another interesting experiment coming on me feels!
Works just as good with the Peru de selvas, has a but more depth.
Yes coffee - ness is a now legit descriptor!
If I want a sweet coffee the base bean will have this character (India Elephant Hills), for an espresso blend; low to mid acidity and big body ( Sulawesi,
For a milk coffee blend, medium or medium high acidity is a good start (PNG Wahgi AA, Peru Ceja De Selva).
I prefer coffee with plenty of body so the base bean must have it in spades.
Centrals can be a little thin on body but have great flavour and/or sweetness and will nearly always add an acid component.
For a chocolatey coffee, there's no point having a fruity base bean, fruit can be added via a fruity SO to create layers of flavour and so on.
Blending then becomes a construction on an appropriate, sympathetic foundation.
The beans which are added to the base build fundamental flavour, such as chocolate/ cocoa/ caramel/ brown sugar and add flavour nuances, fruit/ berry/ wine;
they should also either balance or emphasise desired qualities such as higher/lower acidity, sweetness, mouth feel/body, crema.
quick questions when you guys blend here, but do you blend them when green and roast together or blend post roasting?
I normally blend green, but mainly due to the number of 20min roasts I'm willing to do! But if I was doing larger amounts, I'd probably split the roasts so you could tweak the profile ie one batch slightly lighter with the africans & indos, slightly longer and darker for the peru/centrals. Would probably make a slight difference - but I've never had enough beans required to try it
Green blending still gives you 95% of the goodness IMHO…
Matt's right. I do both pre and post blending.
I match up beans for pre blending according to how they roast on their own. I put like with like.
Beans I want lighter/darker get done by themselves and so do most peaberries.
Beans of similar altitude (read hardness), size grading and age are what generally go together.
Dry process beans I mostly do on their own and lower altitude coffee ( Indo's) also end up by themselves.
I can also snaffle a bag to have as an SO. ;-)
When blending (esp commercial), the sum should be greater than the parts; 1+1+1=4 sort of thing, so if
a bean doesn't reach its' potential in a pre-blend I would consider roasting it on its' own.
I recently received a commercial espresso blend to comment on. It was a pre blend of Brazil, Peru and a Nicaraguan.
The Nicaraguan bean was mostly very dark or even black, which of course gave the coffee a bitter, unpalatable taste. It was in
the blend to add acid but wasn't doing that either, at that level of roast. I suggested that it be pulled from the pre blend
and done on its' own. Now, it's not a bad coffee.
My last roast on Sunday was a hard Ethiopian mixed with New Guinea while green.
50:50 mix though.
Had it today and the main taste felt like burnt toasts hopefully its because its only been 3 days so may improve.
Just enjoying an amazing 'chocolately' blend from the current crop at beanbay - 350g Uganda Kisoro, 250g PNG Waghi, 100g MMG. Pre-roast blend in the corretto. Amazing grinder aroma, big cocoa from the Uganda offset by sweetness & body from the other too. Very milk-choc like as a FW - earthy and sweet as doppio.
Pretty slow roast - bu oh so sold!
Well, happy to report back using the Ethiopian Gambella and Java Banyuwangi at 60:40 blend came out great after 8 days... started off at a nutty flavour on day 7, and I had it yesterday at day 9 it became a very chocolaty flavour to it... great taste as a single shot of espresso, but was kind of lacking in ombh as a single shot milk drink... it worked out better when I either use a double shot in my 16g VST basket, or the 20g basket for my larger travel mug to the office..
thanks for the blend suggestion guys