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Thread: How you record the so bean characteristic from green,roast,grind,cup

  1. #1
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    How you record the so bean characteristic from green,roast,grind,cup

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    When I buy green beans I read the description that the seller listed, usually all the fluid flowery terms that entice you to buy. And when I receive them, roast, grind and cup them, I find the original description differ from my evaluation of the particular bean.
    I find extremely challenging to be able to cup a variety of beans in a single trial, dont your taste buds just quit? In this instance I just do 1 bean trial every 3 days apart.

    I records as follows...
    and I have another 11 so beans variety to trial.
    I pound my beans, as I only trial 1 handful beans at a time.

    What do members here record, how do they record for their purpose of tracking the beans that they have tried.

    Your comments will be much appreciated.



    Nicaraguan La Bastilla RFA (1kg) $xx.00 ....1
    roast level 6.5/10 ,no oil, less 2nd crack ie not incline to 2nd crack
    aroma fresh 1-3 days 6/10,
    after 4days 3/10, broad slight noticable fragrance 2.5/10
    sour 5/10.
    powder pound - aroma 4/10,
    flavor and aroma when cup - 4/10
    ie the fragrance not hold 3/10 in roasted beans,
    but produce aroma when pound 4/10,
    and aroma when cup 4/10
    body 3.5/10

    Ethiopian Yirgachaffe (1kg) $xx.00 ....2
    roast level 8/10 ,slight oil, much 2nd crack much
    aroma fresh roasted beans 1-3 days 6/10, sharp acute fragrance 6/10
    after 4days 5/10, sharp acute fragrance 6/10
    sour 3/10.
    and aroma when cup 5/10
    body 4.5/10
    cant sleep

    Columbian Supremo (1kg) $xx.00 ....3
    roast level 8/10 ,slight oil, little 2nd crack ie not incline to 2nd crack
    aroma fresh roasted beans 1-3 days 2/10, broad fragrance 1.5/10
    after 4days 5/10,
    sour ?/10.


    Costa Rica Tarrazu (1kg) $xx.00 ....4
    roast level 8/10 ,slight oil, little 2nd crack ie not incline to 2nd crack
    aroma fresh roasted beans 1-3 days 2/10, sharp acute fragrance 3/10
    after 4days ?/10,
    sour ?/10.
    Last edited by otahotah; 9th May 2014 at 07:46 PM. Reason: out of alignment

  2. #2
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    The earlier post have some sections thrown out of alignment, here is it again.


    Nicaraguan La Bastilla RFA (1kg) $xx00 1 $xx.00 ....1
    roast level 6.5/10 ,no oil, less 2nd crack ie not incline to 2nd crack
    aroma fresh 1-3 days 6/10,
    after 4days 3/10, broad slight noticable fragrance 2.5/10
    sour 5/10.
    powder pound - aroma 4/10,
    flavor and aroma when cup - 4/10
    ie the fragrance not hold 3/10 in roasted beans,
    but produce aroma when pound 4/10,
    and aroma when cup 4/10
    body 3.5/10

    Ethiopian Yirgachaffe (1kg) $xx.00 1 $xx.00 ....2
    roast level 8/10 ,slight oil, much 2nd crack much
    aroma fresh roasted beans 1-3 days 6/10, sharp acute fragrance 6/10
    after 4days 5/10, sharp acute fragrance 6/10
    sour 3/10.
    and aroma when cup 5/10
    body 4.5/10
    cant sleep

    Columbian Supremo (1kg) $xx.00 1 $xx.00 ....3
    roast level 8/10 ,slight oil, little 2nd crack ie not incline to 2nd crack
    aroma fresh roasted beans 1-3 days 2/10, broad fragrance 1.5/10
    after 4days 5/10,
    sour ?/10.


    Costa Rica Tarrazu (1kg) $xx.00 1 $xx.00 ....4
    roast level 8/10 ,slight oil, little 2nd crack ie not incline to 2nd crack
    aroma fresh roasted beans 1-3 days 2/10, sharp acute fragrance 3/10
    after 4days 5/10,
    sour ?/10.

  3. #3
    Senior Member smokey's Avatar
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    otah, your approach is interesting, I think we all try to work out a way of understanding bean characteristics because words will never quite match our experience in the cup.

    Here are some things to think about when cupping, I am not an expert just a coffee lover.

    Leave your beans at least 5 days before you pound them, then cup every few days until the 30th day. Beans change and mature in flavour over time, fresh ground coffee on day 1 will be completely different to what it tastes like on day 21, the flavour should improve over time.

    You say you pound them, so I think you are using a mortar and pestle, this will produce slight variations in flavour from cup to cup. Each cupped bean, depending on oiliness and other individual bean characteristics, may need a different particle size to get the best from it, a grinder may improve things. But having said that, coffee beans have been pounded throughout the world for hundreds of years.

    In a years time you will have much more experience with the various beans from around the world, you will find that you prefer some to others. With experience in roasting and grinding you will find that deeper roasts are more chocolate and lighter roasts more intricate in flavour. You will learn when to cool your roasts for each preference for each bean. Its a series of experiences over time that you can't learn from the a coffee encyclopedia, you have to do it. I admire your desire to learn more about this wonderful beverage.

    Good luck with your experiment, and don't forget the most important part of coffee, and thats enjoying it
    Last edited by smokey; 10th May 2014 at 08:14 AM. Reason: spelling
    otahotah likes this.

  4. #4
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    Cupping coffee definitely takes time to learn. Taste is very difficult to describe (try to write a description of the the taste of chocolate). As you point out, a cupping session has a limited time before your sense of taste starts to fatigue. Experienced people have ways to avoid this for as long as possible.

    After playing around for quite a while by myself, I ended up getting a copy of the SCAA Coffee Cupper's Handbook and starting there. Once I'd got a general idea from this book I tasted lots of other people's coffee (as well as my own) and asked them about it. I also went to a few cupping sessions (about half of them were free). The basics are not too hard to learn, but it does take effort. I also did some pallet training (no need to go to professional courses, there are some exercises that I find very useful on the SweetMarias website). Then you'll get a better idea of what the descriptions of particular coffees are trying to tell you.

    You also need to decide what you want to be able to do so you can focus your efforts. For example, do you want to be able to recognise roasting flaws to improve your roasting? This would suggest roasting and cupping one or two beans a lot. Do you want to understand how beans from different growing regions tend to taste so you can develop blends to your liking? (I often find it interesting when people describe blends with five or six beans in - they must have very refined tasting abilities!)

    Sorry to go on, but there is already a heap of info about this if you do a search. Referring to people who do this for a living will avoid of lot of wrong turns. For example, I agree with smokey that tasting beans over about a month is useful, but I would start from 24 hours after roasting (heck, taste one straight away!!). I would not say the flavour "improves" over time, but changes. Some people love the flavour in the first few days and then find things go a bit flat and one-dimensional. You might be one of them and starting at day five will mean you never find this out. Also, experimenting is fine, but understand there are an awful lot of variables to discover and understand! I guess my response is, getting a good reference will answer a lot of your questions.
    otahotah and smokey like this.

  5. #5
    Member Caffeineholic's Avatar
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    as a noob whos just started out roasting (and hence wanting to learn about tasting) that's some great advice in 2 short posts. Thanks guys

  6. #6
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    Columbian Supremo
    Day1-day2 - roast beans aroma - 2/10, unnoticable,
    day3 - aroma jump 6/10

    Same as Costa Rica Tarrazu

    With nicaraguan, aroma at peak last like 3 more days, then subdued. maybe because i kept it in plastic bag, not seal bottle.


    This is my second attempt, im the 1st, I tried with the Asian seeds, ie thai, viet,
    indonesia, and without logging or records, I will need to do those varieties again.

    Other comments.
    Do you taste your roast beans during the roast session, as some beans dont second crack as much, and nasal indifference, only way then is taste those
    roast beans.

    Do you wash and dry your green beans before roasting them, as the fumigation
    of gas may be toxic, and how many of your green beans float, do these float ones
    roast to only brown instead of dark, even though you roast to fc. ?

    I think able to record the roast, grind, cup in one's vocab is crucial step
    towards blending later on.

    Any one out there who logs and care to shed some light how they do it ?
    Cheers

  7. #7
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    Re the earlier 2 posts, Thank you very much for your replies and guidance.
    My goal is to be able to twig the taste and body and after taste, and match
    that to premium household roasted beans, eg the roasted beans sold in wet
    markets in sabah, everyone buys them, hack , what is the composition, what
    is the variety, awesome taste, I just want to get close to that flavour and aroma
    and taste, that is a self challenge .

  8. #8
    Senior Member chokkidog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by otahotah View Post
    When I buy green beans I read the description that the seller listed, usually all the fluid flowery terms that entice you to buy. And when I receive them, roast, grind and cup them, I find the original description differ from my evaluation of the particular bean.
    When you buy green beans the description that you read is, generally, the one from when the coffee was cupped either pre purchase or on delivery.
    Sometimes green bean resellers just use the description provided by the importer and don't cup the coffee themselves.

    Specific cupping roasts are way lighter than espresso roasts so that roast characters do not interfere with the bean character.

    The taste profile of most roasted coffee will change once a bean is roasted past medium, hence your experience.

    Experienced cuppers can discern; acidity, body, mouthfeel, finish, balance, sweetness, freshness, primary and secondary flavours and should
    be able to detect bean flaws.

    Beans that will roast well for espresso can be selected from cupping roasts, based on the above,
    but it will be understood that as roast level increases the taste profile will also change.

    Cupping espresso roasts has it's place, especially in detecting the point where roast is over dominating fruit, identifying roast flaws

    and constructing blends........but you may as well just pull a shot!!

    The correct grind for cupping is the most coarse of all coffee preparations, more coarse than French Press.
    otahotah and smokey like this.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by chokkidog View Post
    When you buy green beans the description that you read is, generally, the one from when the coffee was cupped either pre purchase or on delivery.
    Sometimes green bean resellers just use the description provided by the importer and don't cup the coffee themselves.

    Specific cupping roasts are way lighter than espresso roasts so that roast characters do not interfere with the bean character.

    The taste profile of most roasted coffee will change once a bean is roasted past medium, hence your experience.

    Experienced cuppers can discern; acidity, body, mouthfeel, finish, balance, sweetness, freshness, primary and secondary flavours and should
    be able to detect bean flaws.

    Beans that will roast well for espresso can be selected from cupping roasts, based on the above,
    but it will be understood that as roast level increases the taste profile will also change.

    Cupping espresso roasts has it's place, especially in detecting the point where roast is over dominating fruit, identifying roast flaws

    and constructing blends........but you may as well just pull a shot!!

    The correct grind for cupping is the most coarse of all coffee preparations, more coarse than French Press.
    thanks for the advice
    Now I feel I need 2 sets of records. 1 for upto medium roast and 1 for past medium
    to really log the bean attributes. One easy way is to set aside a small qty when the roast gets to medium, and the remaining to go past 2nd crack.

    Same so bean, mix the medium and past medium roast, and a new flavor aroma
    is in the offering. Phew, I am going to be at it, no ending.... but i think it would be
    great fun.

    Thanks again. chokkidog





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