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Thread: Via Venezia EMO480 vs Silvia/Rocky upgrade

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    Via Venezia EMO480 vs Silvia/Rocky upgrade

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Hi everyone, I have ordered a non-pressurised portafilter for my Via Venezia and I intend to get an EMO480, a tamper and begin experimenting and generally improving my espresso quality. I was looking seriously at a Silvia/Rocky combo but after reading posts on this site and elsewhere I think I need to work on my technique and knowledge before I upgrade. Questions if anyone can help/comment:
    Is the VV/EMO480 combo ok to work with for the moment or is difference in espresso quality definately worth the upgrade to Silvia/Rocky immediately bearing in mind I am a novice?
    Is there a rule of thumb for tamp pressure or is that trial an error?
    I was given a product called "Cleancaf" to descale my VV is that suitable (I notice the directions say to use weekly whereas I thought at 3 mth intervals)
    I have heard the EMO480 needs adjustment to produce a grind fine enough for the VV, is that correct? Thanks, any comments appreciated.

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    Re: Via Venezia EMO480 vs Silvia/Rocky upgrade

    try a search press1, you will see heaps on tamping pressures. 15kg as a rule.

    also heaps on cleaning products that people recommend for back flushing and cleaning.
    good luck

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    Senior Member Rusty's Avatar
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    Re: Via Venezia EMO480 vs Silvia/Rocky upgrade

    Ill let you know next week ::)

    My daughter has the Via Venezia and am visiting her over the weekend in Coffs Harbour when I will convert the portafilter to non-pressurized and deliver her EM0480.

    I recently sold my Silvia/Rocky, so I should be able to form an opinion of the difference in taste ;)

    Watch this space :D

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    Re: Via Venezia EMO480 vs Silvia/Rocky upgrade

    Thanks Coffee Snob Azz and Rusty for the replies. I will do those searches and look forward to the feedback on the VVs performance ex ppf with the EM0480.

    My new portafilter arrived from Saeco and I got that tamper. So far I am getting way more than 30ml in 25 seconds with a fairly heavy tamp and coffee ground specifically (3.8?) for the VV by Merlo. The crema is only about 3mm thick, a lighter colour and the shot is a watery consistency although the coffee tastes better than with the ppf, it is thinner.

    The double basket fits into the new portafilter quite loosely whereas the fit is tight in the ppf would that have any bearing?

    Thanks again for any comments.

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    Senior Member GregWormald's Avatar
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    Re: Via Venezia EMO480 vs Silvia/Rocky upgrade

    The portafilter really only holds the basket to seal against the head. (And directs the flow after extraction of course.)

    According to the VV users here the non-pressurised portafilter requires a finer grind to get the flow right.

    Greg

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    Re: Via Venezia EMO480 vs Silvia/Rocky upgrade

    Thanks Greg

    Havent picked up my grinder yet so this morning I got some finer grind than I have been using and yes, now getting about 30ml in 25-30 seconds crema is a shade darker and the shot a little bitter, maybe tamping too hard? I will keep practising, grind and freshness made a big difference though, thanks.

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    Senior Member GregWormald's Avatar
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    Re: Via Venezia EMO480 vs Silvia/Rocky upgrade

    Whenever I get a bitter extraction my first thought is "less is more"--ie. a shorter extraction usually has more flavour, over-extraction = bitter, and the more bitter the coffee is the less flavour I can taste.

    I find the standard espresso extraction not to my taste at all. Its why I drink ristrettos.

    Greg

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    Re: Via Venezia EMO480 vs Silvia/Rocky upgrade

    I will try that, thanks Greg

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    Senior Member Rusty's Avatar
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    Re: Via Venezia EMO480 vs Silvia/Rocky upgrade

    Removed the pressure valve from my daughters Via Venezia and ground some beans of doubtful age on the EM0480.

    She doesnt yet posses a tamper ::) Nevertheless, I improvised with a medicine bottle as a tamper - not quite the right size but I believe the exercise proved that she will can get better shots than with the pressurized handle and pre-ground coffee.

    We were grinding at about mid point on the Sunbeam, so there is still plenty of room to fine tune the grind.

    She has ordered some freshly roasted beans and will buy a 53mm tamper - so she should improve with some guidance from her father ;D

    I realized after the exercise that I had not removed the black disc which sits in the handle. There was no mention of it in the instructions for converting the handle. Should i have removed it and id so how ::)

    Thanks for any suggestions. :)


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    Re: Via Venezia EMO480 vs Silvia/Rocky upgrade

    Well I picked up my EM0480 yesterday and after about 200g of experimentation I found using the double basket and a grind setting of 7 with a very firm tamp resulted in a darker flow, an extraction time of 25 sec+ and a more “syrupy” shot with a darker crema and less bitterness than previously. Blew it on the milk prep. So still seeking!

    After much reading on this site I de-scaled twice and also now do the following:
    Warm the machine up for about 15 minutes
    Wipe the screen and run some hot water through the group head
    Dry the basket
    Grind directly into the basket filling and tapping it before tamping
    Warm the glasses/cups
    Cool the milk jug in the fridge
    Time the extraction

    The grind seems inconsistent though i.e grind setting of 9 with same tamp and beans resulted in extraction times of 10 to 25+ sec. also the flow is very uneven with flow on one side and droplets on the other resulting in one glass getting up to twice as much as the other. Grateful for any comments on this or the above.

    Rusty, not sure if this helps but I got a np group handle directly from Saeco in Melbourne. They did try to palm me off to the local agent here but I insisted and ended up dealing with Felix in spare parts who was excellent. The part no. is 226550250 and it was $58.14 so with 2 baskets and freight it came to $91.98 (spacer for single basket is on back order.) It arrived in 3 days.

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    Senior Member Rusty's Avatar
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    Re: Via Venezia EMO480 vs Silvia/Rocky upgrade

    Quote Originally Posted by 3D3C2D590 link=1245248141/9#9 date=1246660784
    Rusty, not sure if this helps but I got a np group handle directly from Saeco in Melbourne. They did try to palm me off to the local agent here but I insisted and ended up dealing with Felix in spare parts who was excellent. The part no. is 226550250 and it was $58.14 so with 2 baskets and freight it came to $91.98 (spacer for single basket is on back order.) It arrived in 3 days.
    Thanks for that. I spoke with my daughter last night and she is very happy with the converted handle, and now has fresh beans and a tamper. She claims her shots are now consistent :D

    Remember to have the grind setting as the only variable ;)

    Standardizes your dose and tamp and adjust the grind to get the shot you want.

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    Re: Via Venezia EMO480 vs Silvia/Rocky upgrade

    Quote Originally Posted by 6C6D7C080 link=1245248141/9#9 date=1246660784
    the flow is very uneven with flow on one side and droplets on the other resulting in one glass getting up to twice as much as the other. Grateful for any comments on this or the above.
    Sounds like your tamping is not even. *I am still a novice myself and can say that this takes practice. *Essentially you have to keep the tamper as level as you can otherwise you end up with the effect youre seeing.

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    Re: Via Venezia EMO480 vs Silvia/Rocky upgrade

    Thanks caffeine Junky I have evened up the tamp, better result now.

    This is now a bit off topic and possibly a silly question but does extraction time commence when the pump is activated or when the shot first begins to exit? On my VV there can be a 5 sec difference.

    have searched "extraction times on here does not seem to be any specific reference to that. can anyone help on that one?

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    Senior Member GregWormald's Avatar
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    Re: Via Venezia EMO480 vs Silvia/Rocky upgrade

    Quote Originally Posted by 4948592D0 link=1245248141/12#12 date=1246919124
    does extraction time commence when the pump is activated or when the shot first begins to exit?
    When you turn the pump on.

    Greg

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    Re: Via Venezia EMO480 vs Silvia/Rocky upgrade

    Glad you asked that press, was not quite sure myself and kinda too embarassed to ask!

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    Re: Via Venezia EMO480 vs Silvia/Rocky upgrade

    Thanks Greg

    Good information, I have probably been over-extracting then.

    Dont worry Caffeine Junky Ive got plenty more silly questions just not going to ask them all at the same time ;D

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    Senior Member GregWormald's Avatar
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    Re: Via Venezia EMO480 vs Silvia/Rocky upgrade

    press1,

    Please remember that the times, amounts, etc. are all *guidelines* only, and the end result in your mouth is what counts.

    For instance, I only drink double ristrettos, and my extraction is usually about 20 sec for 20-25 ml total. Any more and the bitterness of the caffeine not only overwhelms the sweetness of the coffee, it doesnt agree with my stomach.

    Greg

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    Re: Via Venezia EMO480 vs Silvia/Rocky upgrade

    The best advice Ive read is to aim for a flow that is just faster than dripping.

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    Re: Via Venezia EMO480 vs Silvia/Rocky upgrade

    Off topic now but Greg with the double ristretto do you grind, dose and tamp as for double espresso and then simply shorten the extraction time to around 20 sec or do you adjust grind at all?

    I attempted a double ristretto and ground at 6 instead of 7 on my EM0480, dose and tamp the same. I then stopped the extraction at around 20 sec. The result looked great with about 30ml total thick crema darker than I have been getting but there was still a little bitterness at the taste. I used as the base for a 200 ml (total) latte it certainly looked good and tasted stronger than what I have been producing. Comments from others welcome also.

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    Senior Member GregWormald's Avatar
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    Re: Via Venezia EMO480 vs Silvia/Rocky upgrade

    Quote Originally Posted by 212031450 link=1245248141/18#18 date=1247377604
    Greg with the double ristretto do you grind, dose and tamp as for double espresso and then simply shorten the extraction time to around 20 sec or do you adjust grind at all?
    My technique is highlighted.

    Im not keen on much bitterness so a heavily restricted ristretto is my favourite. Im generally aiming for 20-25 ml in the 20 seconds. A finer grind will extract more caffeine quicker, and increase bitterness.

    Greg



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