Results 1 to 21 of 21

Thread: Breville 800es or alternate

  1. #1
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    2

    Breville 800es or alternate

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    hey.. my first post, probably of many * :P , help appreciated,

    Going to make use of the post-xmas sales and lash out on a manual machine and a grinder, but am finding it hard wading through all the conflicting reviews on the web. *I really want to spend less than * ~$700 for the pair.

    The review at http://www.productreview.com.au/show...p?item_id=3969 (thanks tasadam) makes the 800es sound pretty good. *Has anyone here used this machine? would you recommend it? or the ESP8(B,C) (are these called ESP8XL in the US?)

    A must is that the machines will last. also I probably wont use the steam attachments much.

    I have noticed also the Sunbeam 6910 mentioned here a bit, any other units I should consider? any recommendations on the grinder?

    ta again.



  2. #2
    Senior Member fatboy_1999's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    2,118

    Re: Breville 800es or alternate

    Well, it looks OK for a cheapy.
    The dual wall crema system means pressurised baskets that create fake crema. Some negative reviews regarding this http://au.shopping.com/xPR-Breville-ES-800
    I cant find any mention of the size of the basket, but it looks smaller than 58mm standard.
    Some reviews mention that steaming milk takes a while. If milk is important, perhaps you should try to see one in action.

    2 year warranty look good, but need to find out what the * is hiding.

    Grinder - perhaps look at Sunbeam models kicking around if you really are on a tight budget.

    I would recommend talking to a site sponsor though.
    Take it from someone who has upgraded 4 times, if you spend a little more now, youll save money in the future. Especially on a grinder.

    Brett.

  3. #3
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    1,914

    Re: Breville 800es or alternate

    Hi there,

    Cant say how much of a relief it is to see someone asking questions before they buy this machine!

    Basically, I struggle to see how this machine is actually different from the really cheap machines in any significant way ... other than the "commercial" body.

    Actually, this sort of marketing really irks me. They advertise a "15 bar" pump when (a) most domestic machines, regardless of price, use very similar if not identical pumps and (b) maximum pump pressure is irrelevant - it should be regulated to about 9 bar (although some manufacturers are too cheap to do that). They talk about "commercial" features ... well, there is no-one out there policing the use of the word "commercial" and I can tell you that their "commercial" steam wand only resembles a commercial machine in that it has a ball joint. Then, to top it all off, they talk about their "advanced dual wall crema system." This is basically means that the espresso is forced through a small pinhole in order to froth it up and create fake crema so that people who have bought a machine without a grinder think that they are getting an OK result from preground coffee that would never produce crema under normal conditions. In essence, it seems to me as though the company is either ignorant, or exploitative.

    I invite you to take a look at brevilles own webpage and see if you can spot any significant differences between the pile of marketing garble that they use to describe the two models that you are thinking about:

    http://www.breville.com.au/products_detail.asp?prod=286
    http://www.breville.com.au/products_detail.asp?prod=97

    Grinder-wise, the cheapest grinder that I would look at is the Iberital challenge. This seems to be relatively similar to the sunbeam, except that it has stepless adjustment. IMHO, the stepped adjustment of the sunbeam grinder will probably prevent you from achieving the optimum espresso extraction. Id jump on a sunbeam grinder for all non-espresso use, though ... Im even thinking of getting one myself for french press, etc. The importer is out of stock of them at the moment, but if you ask around some of the site sponsors might have them. I know that Chris from Talk Coffee usually stocks them. Id expect both the iberital and the sunbeam to keel over and die after a few years of use, although there are reports of similar machines lasting five years.

    Frankly, with your budget, I dont think that you are going to get machines that will last and do a good job. Although, partly thats frame of reference. I work on commercial machines, so I expect a lot from equipment.

    If I were you, I would probably wait, save up and get something reallly good. In the meantime, you could get a good grinder and enjoy some absolutely top quality french press coffee at home. You can set yourself up to enjoy the best quality french press coffee in the world for much, much less than it costs to make even a passable espresso. If you get a great grinder, you can then save up for a decent espresso machine.

    Grinder-wise, the mazzer and compak adjustment system doesnt compromise on adjustability over the espresso range and allows the user to switch back-and-forth between espresso and french press pretty quickly. Im not sure how long the compaks will last, but mazzers are the only grinder that I havent heard complaints about in a commercial setting. There is a cafe on brunswick street that has a mazzer in it that looks about twenty or thirty years old and it is still going strong. But the price-tag can be a bit hard to swallow, particularly if you have been looking at the prices of grinders flogged by department store kids who dont know the first thing about coffee.

    As for espresso machines, I would encourage you to go the plunger route and wait until a second-hand silvia, gaggia or mokita comes up for sale on this forum. You will probably end up with a unit that has been looked after by an obsessive-compulsive and that you can re-sell at more or less the same price. This has to be the most risk-free way to try out an OK espresso machine!

    Cheers,

    Luca

  4. #4
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    2

    Re: Breville 800es or alternate

    luca, wow, thanks heaps for your reply ;D, I think you have confirmed my apprehention on the brevilles. Your comments combined with tasadams thread where people are milling filters and such to get great coffee have really turned me off this (and any other breville) espresso machine.

    Totally agree with you on the marketing clap trap, but being and engineer dealing with marekting, I know thats marketings job is to bullcrap consumers into buying, and is the same in most modern companies (unless marketing is done by engineers..)/

    I have been reading the thread on the Sunbeam E0480, seem it has some serious design flaws with the burr mounting, and theres switched setting, which I can see is pretty average. I will scour through the forums for the brands you have suggested. looking like I am going to have to pay >$200 for a grinder.

    Also I have had a quick search on the sunbeam EM6910. But being a new machine I cant tell if its going to last or not. *Any good threads comparing to the silvia?

    I am still new to the espresso making so I have plenty of room to improve even if I went for the EM6910?

  5. #5
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Warwick, QLD
    Posts
    16,604

    Re: Breville 800es or alternate

    Hey there kadee,

    Welcome to CoffeeSnobs [smiley=thumbsup.gif].

    I support everything that Luca has written above and in a nutshell, buy a great grinder now from one of our sponsors and receive a CoffeeSnobs Discount with great service and support thrown in for free. And after that, save up for an espresso machine more or less along the lines that Luca has suggested and enjoy simply superb French Press/Plunger coffee from home roasted green beans bought from the CoffeeSnobs Beanbay ;).

    That way, by the time youve got the readies available to purchase a machine, youll have the vagaries of home roasting all sorted out and know what to expect when you start the learning curve of pulling consistently great shots from an espresso machine 8-). If I knew what I know now when I first started out on the espresso journey, this is the route I would have taken. Enjoy the journey kadee :)

    Mal.

  6. #6
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    1,562

    Re: Breville 800es or alternate

    Quote Originally Posted by kadee link=1167127188/0#3 date=1167139683

    I am still new to the espresso making so I have plenty of room to improve even if I went for the EM6910?
    Yes, plenty of room indeed.... The next step for me is a Expobar Minore II :) Short of that, my Em6910 is perfect.... :-)

  7. #7
    Sleep is overrated Thundergod's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    10,496

    Re: Breville 800es or alternate

    Maybe you could spend all your budget on the first and last grinder youll ever need and then save up again for an Expobar. ;)

  8. #8
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    1,673

    Re: Breville 800es or alternate

    I read a little while back that you should spend what you can afford and then a little bit more.

    In my mind you have a few choices with a $700 budget

    1) Here is a pre loved Gaggia Classic for $250.http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1166063894

    If you get this you can get

    * * a) a gaggia MDF grinder, or an Imberital challenge grinder around the $300-$350 mark depending on where you are
    * *
    * * b) Wushoes grinder http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1164797091 which, I am guessing will possibly last you a life time (the La Cimbali is the large grinder).

    2) You can spend $300 - $600 on a decent ginder and save up for a new Sunbeam EM6910, a Gaggia Classic or a bit more for a *Rancilio Sylvia.

    3) Buy yourself a EM6910 or the Classic and get a turkish coffee grinder. These are handgrinders, a decent price for under $80 and you can still have good coffee while you save to get a good grinder.

    These are just a couple of options.

    Good Luck.

    I would go for option 1 myself, that would be a very sweet deal and both these machines would last you a lot of years

  9. #9
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    2,601

    Re: Breville 800es or alternate

    The machine looks deceptively good --- metallic, solid.

    But your objective is to make espressos, so theres no disguising or overpowerling poor shot quality with milk. (not that it would be a good steamer anyway)

    I would NOT recommend this machine, as it will disappoint.

    Look at the miniscule, lightweight aluminium portafilter (and group, too I suspect). Making a decent espresso is beyond its capacity.

    -Robusto

  10. #10
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    32

    Re: Breville 800es or alternate

    I own this machine and the only way to get an ok espresso is to buy an awesome grinder. *If you have the money buy the Sunbeam Cafe Series Grinder and Espresso Machine. *I would recommend this machine over the Breville as it has the twin thermoblock pump, so you can steam and brew at the same time. *The Sunbeam, however, still uses the pressurised baskets to create crema. *IMO this the only bad point about the Sunbeam. *If I had done more research I would have bought the Sunbeam.

    On the other hand, with the Breville you can still get an alright shot of coffee if you have a fairly fine grind and very fresh beans(as always). *I would recommend getting a vacuum coffee saver, if you do buy this machine. Actually, buy a coffee saver anyway.

    The steaming quality (as I believe) is similar on both the machines. *I will only comment on the breville, as I havent used the Sunbeam. *The steam flow isnt very dry and takes a long time to build up pressure. *It does have sufficent pressure with the stock steam tip, but only enough to microfoam for a latte. *When trying to make a cap, you will need better pressure, or you get bubbly milk.

    I have learnt alot about how your techniques depends on how the espresso tastes, as this machine wont make nice coffee if you cant make nice coffee. *Makes Sense?

    Save your money for the Sunbeam Cafe Series. *I believe it would be much more worth the money. *I dont believe in spending alot of money to buy a Silvia or Expobar etc; *But, thats just me.



  11. #11
    TC
    TC is offline
    .
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    14,665

    Re: Breville 800es or alternate

    Quote Originally Posted by falling_short link=1167127188/0#9 date=1167623176
    I own this machine and the only way to get an ok espresso is to buy an awesome grinder. *If you have the money buy the Sunbeam Cafe Series Grinder and Espresso Machine. *I would recommend this machine over the Breville as it has the twin thermoblock pump, so you can steam and brew at the same time. *The Sunbeam, however, still uses the pressurised baskets to create crema. *IMO this the only bad point about the Sunbeam. *If I had done more research I would have bought the Sunbeam.

    On the other hand, with the Breville you can still get an alright shot of coffee if you have a fairly fine grind and very fresh beans(as always). *I would recommend getting a vacuum coffee saver, if you do buy this machine. Actually, buy a coffee saver anyway.

    The steaming quality (as I believe) is similar on both the machines. *I will only comment on the breville, as I havent used the Sunbeam. *The steam flow isnt very dry and takes a long time to build up pressure. *It does have sufficent pressure with the stock steam tip, but only enough to microfoam for a latte. *When trying to make a cap, you will need better pressure, or you get bubbly milk.

    I have learnt alot about how your techniques depends on how the espresso tastes, as this machine wont make nice coffee if you cant make nice coffee. *Makes Sense?

    Save your money for the Sunbeam Cafe Series. *I believe it would be much more worth the money. *I dont believe in spending alot of money to buy a Silvia or Expobar etc; *But, thats just me.

    Unless Im mistaken, the 6910 ships with both pressurised (aka rubbish for those who prefer to use stale, plunger grind) baskets as well as real ones for those with a decent grinder....

  12. #12
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    39

    Re: Breville 800es or alternate

    Quote Originally Posted by 2muchcoffeeman link=1167127188/0#10 date=1167623484
    Unless Im mistaken, the 6910 ships with both pressurised (aka rubbish for those who prefer to use stale, plunger grind) baskets as well as real ones for those with a decent grinder....

    Sure does. Comes with 4 baskets in total - single and double pressurised and standard single and double.

    Being a coffee noob myself, Im stoked with my 6910 and Sunbeam Grinder(0480) - Highly recommend.

  13. #13
    Senior Member tasadam's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Near Devonport, Tasmania
    Posts
    278

    Re: Breville 800es or alternate

    Quote Originally Posted by kadee link=1167127188/0#0 date=1167127188
    The review at http://www.productreview.com.au/show...p?item_id=3969 (thanks tasadam) makes the 800es sound pretty good. *Has anyone here used this machine? would you recommend it? or the ESP8(B,C) (are these called ESP8XL in the US?)
    Well. I have one of these things now - Breville 800ESR.
    The good news - it didnt cost me anything - as I used my ANZ rewards points. And indeed that is good news. Because I would be feeling quite frustrated at having paid the RRP for this unit, given what I now know about it.

    Sure it works, and you can get a cup of coffee out of it. But it has its flaws that clearly separate it from what one might expect from a "commercial" machine.
    I now think you can take the reviews at the above link with a grain of salt.

    This review is spot on when describing the clogging.
    I am in the market for a basket without Dual Wall for this unit. Somehow I dont think I will be finding one, and will have to "modify" this one by grinding or filing off the "pinhole wall".

    Quote Originally Posted by luca link=1167127188/0#2 date=1167133631
    In essence, it seems to me as though the company is either ignorant, or exploitative.
    Or both?

    Quote Originally Posted by robusto link=1167127188/0#8 date=1167621477
    The machine looks deceptively good --- metallic, solid.

    But your objective is to make espressos, so theres no disguising or overpowerling poor shot quality with milk. (not that it would be a good steamer anyway)

    I would NOT recommend this machine, as it will disappoint.

    Look at the miniscule, lightweight aluminium portafilter (and group, too I suspect). *Making a decent espresso is beyond its capacity.

    -Robusto
    Robusto, you are inaccurate here on a couple of points. Dont get me wrong - I am not trying to defend this machine. But the portafilter is not Aluminium, it is stainless steel. Both walls. *;)
    The group is solid and heavy. I suspect this is where the company can get off at calling this thing "commercial". Actually, the whole machine is pretty heavy. Theres a fair bit of metal in it.

    As for making a decent espresso beyond its capacity, well, depends on your definition of "decent". Would I be happy to have purchased a coffee the quality of which I can now produce - perhaps. My wife? Yes, so she says. What about once I have scrapped the dual wall crema cr@p and got a decent tamping tool? Well, time will tell. I will be overcoming the dual wall, somehow. I do not yet know whether I want to spend so much money on a good tamping tool if I catch the dreaded and expensive disease "upgraditis"...


    The steamer on this machine does work - but when you open the steamer, be ready for water for a few seconds, after which the steam starts so I point the steamer at the drip tray, and when the water has finished and the steam starts I then put it in the jug as required. Then I wait. And wait.
    Its not as bad as a "Mr Cappuccino" but I think it is a bit slow.

    Grinder.
    I purchased a brand new Rancilio Rocky grinder with the doser, delivered, for $410.
    This is an excellent grinder. Really happy with it.

    If I had my time again, I would purchase a Rancilio Silvia espresso machine. But then I have the dilemma of what to do with the Breville.
    I will just have to be happy with it for now. Its better than nothing, as nothing is what we have had for the last couple of years since our La Pavoni broke down and we eventually got a refund (long story).

    Summary - Buy a good grinder. I am impressed with the Rocky - especially its size. The wife thinks its big but I didnt show her the size of some of those others I was looking at.
    If you were to find yourself with one of these machines, your first objective would be to overcome the dual wall crema filter - by modification or by purchasing an aftermarket basket.
    If you dont yet have one, you have two directions to head - save a couple of hundred bucks and buy any domestic machine with dual wall crema, or, preferrably, save up and by a Silvia.

    More to follow as I get more used to mine, and find a way to overcome the dual wall.


    I hope this helps.

  14. #14
    Sleep is overrated Thundergod's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    10,496

    Re: Breville 800es or alternate

    tasadam - Robusto accused the portafilter of being aluminium and you replied that "it is stainless steel. Both walls."
    You were talking about the baskets.

    Now back to the PF. What is it made of?

  15. #15
    Senior Member tasadam's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Near Devonport, Tasmania
    Posts
    278

    Re: Breville 800es or alternate

    Pardon my ignorance. *[smiley=embarassed.gif]
    Which bit is the "portafilter"?
    Sorry, I thought it was the filter.
    Is it the bit with the handle that the basket goes in? That is chrome plated brass, and heavy.
    If its not the bit with the handle, then beats me...
    Please enlighten me. Thanks.

  16. #16
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    3,498

    Re: Breville 800es or alternate

    Quote Originally Posted by tasadam link=1167127188/0#14 date=1168780246
    Which bit is the "portafilter"?
    Sorry, I thought it was the filter.
    Is it the bit with the handle that the basket goes in? That is chrome plated brass, and heavy.
    If its not the bit with the handle, then beats me...
    Please enlighten me. Thanks.
    Hi tasadam

    portafilter literally means "an opening into which fits the filter/basket"

    so yep..... the bit with the handle :)

  17. #17
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    1

    Re: Breville 800es or alternate

    Quote Originally Posted by 637E736462657E110 link=1167127188/8#8 date=1167621477
    The machine looks deceptively good --- metallic, solid.

    But your objective is to make espressos, so theres no disguising or overpowerling poor shot quality with milk. (not that it would be a good steamer anyway)

    I would NOT recommend this machine, as it will disappoint.

    Look at the miniscule, lightweight aluminium portafilter (and group, too I suspect). *Making a decent espresso is beyond its capacity.

    -Robusto
    Actually, the group handle and group head are extremely solid and well built....

  18. #18
    Sleep is overrated Thundergod's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    10,496

    Re: Breville 800es or alternate

    Quote Originally Posted by 6F666D3131030 link=1167127188/16#16 date=1232513725
    Actually, the group handle and group head are extremely solid and well built.... *
    Welcome to Coffee Snobs len22.

    An interesting first post.
    You dont work for Breville do you? *;)

  19. #19
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    439

    Re: Breville 800es or alternate

    The PF that comes with the 800ES is a very nice piece of brass. And the ball socketed steam arm and the chunk brew switch make the machine feel very robust.

    But none of this really make the machine any better than a $130 Breville Roma or similar Sunbeam which come with the flimsy aluminium version of the PF (which is interchangable).

  20. #20
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    6

    Re: Breville 800es or alternate

    For the retail price the 800es is not worth it! Add another 100 and you can afford the sunbeam 6910 (on sale?). We use that at work and it performs really well, very easy to get a very nice espresso.

    At home I have the Brevillle BES400 (Ikon). It receives a lot more praise than the 800es and the steaming power is really good. Note that the BES400 is the ONLY boiler machine in Brevilles range. The BES400s PF is stainless steel (confirmed by breville customer support) - reasonably heavy and stays hot.

    My recommendation is: if you want to save money, buy the Ikon. If you have more to spend, avoid the 800es.

  21. #21
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    58

    Re: Breville 800es or alternate

    I find the 800ES makes a good long black. I have modified both baskets on mine, so no dual wall bollocks. I actually find it easier to make a good long black with the 800ES than I do with my Silvia. Having said that I do make some great long blacks on the Silvia, something I havent mastered on the 800ES. As I said on an earlier post, the quality of coffee which the 800ES produces surprises me. I only use it on weekends, and take nowhere near the care with shot/temp/grind preparation I do on Silvia, yet the discard shots are relatively few. Steaming milk though is way easier on Silvia.



Similar Threads

  1. Will an Breville Ikon pf work on a Breville 800ES??
    By jkwa in forum Brewing Equipment - Entry level (sub $500)
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 18th February 2012, 02:45 PM
  2. Breville 800es
    By mctourer in forum Brewing Equipment - Entry level (sub $500)
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 23rd September 2010, 11:39 AM
  3. Replies: 7
    Last Post: 11th June 2009, 09:33 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •