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Thread: How to modify Breville 800ES filter... NOT!

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    Senior Member tasadam's Avatar
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    How to modify Breville 800ES filter... NOT!

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    OK Some of you may have seen my other posts about this machine of mine.
    After my last post, I thought what the heck, why not have a go? At worst, it will only cost me a new filter...

    So... The problem -


    The dual wall crema system - under side. One tiny little hole that they expect will enhance the espresso shot. Time to remove it - so up to the shed I go. Out with the... ANGLE GRINDER!
    Yes, but very carefully, just enough to take away the underside to the point that I can see the separation of metal. Then with a lump of wood as a hammer, and an old knife, gently tap the knife into the seam to lift off the bottom layer.
    Then a touch up with the file and it looks an absolute treat - an engineering masterpiece - or so I thought!

    Back to the coffee machine and experimenting with grind, tamping pressure, and I actually made a shot that had excellent crema! But the pour was a bit short, and my pucks look like this...


    So I back the grind off a bit and use a bit more tamping pressure. And I unscrew the plastic thingy from the bottom of the group handle. 10 seconds into my next shot, BANG!!



    I thought, What the f...
    What on earth could have caused that??

    It seems the dual wall filter is made as two pieces and no welder...
    The bottom piece that I ground off was there to hold the top filter in - now that I had removed it, there was nothing to hold the filter bit into the rest of the basket.

    If I only had a spot welder...
    Alas, I do not. So I try to centre-punch all around the edge, but that didnt work because it is too flimsy. So I try "panel beating" around the edge to seal the filter back into the basket. The result?


    So I am up for a new basket and I shall try again...

    I think I will buy 2. One so I can keep the original dual wall, and another that I can do this to

    This way, I will leave a lip of metal from the base, which will hold the filter in.
    I think I will use something less brutal than an angle grinder, too.

    Now to hide this dual basket until I have bought a replacement... And to make coffees with the single basket for now.

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    Re: How to modify Breville 800ES filter... NOT!

    tasadam...

    Nasty, very nasty :( :(

    The problem with modifying a filter like this (with a separate insert) is the huge force trying to force it out....

    Assuming a 50 mm ( 2 inch) basket diameter.... and 9 bar pressure.... the total surface area at the bottom of the basket is about 3 square inches.... 1 bar is 14 lb per square inch so 9 bar would be 3 * 14 * 9 (very approximately) or about 380 lbs - back to metric - over 170 kg!!!!

    Sorry about the imperial - I just know it better ::)

    You will need to leave quite a large lip to retain 170 kg or it will just force its way out!!!

    Are you sure you cant get a normal basket (possibly from a different brand) which will fit?

    EDIT: by the way if your filter is larger than 50mm those figures are even worse.... and many vibe pump machines run 11 bar or even higher.... even worse still :(

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    Re: How to modify Breville 800ES filter... NOT!

    "To boldly go where no man has gone before."

    Look on the bright side tasadam.
    Now we all know.

    I had a close look at those baskets the othjer day at my sisters place.
    No way you could tell thats how they were made.

    Youve saved some other poor soul from doing the same in future.

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    Senior Member tasadam's Avatar
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    Re: How to modify Breville 800ES filter... NOT!

    Quote Originally Posted by JavaB link=1168768543/0#1 date=1168769835
    tasadam...
    Are you sure you cant get a normal basket (possibly from a different brand) which will fit?
    I did the research.
    I emailed Greg Pullman wanting to buy a filter and tamper but he was unsure whether a basket from Marzocco would fit.
    I did an extensive hunt and found this
    http://www.coffeegeek.com/forums/espresso/machines/251878#251878
    (same basket in mine as the machine they talk of here)
    So I gave up and decided to do what had been done to a different brand that I saw here somewhere....

    I reckon I will give it another go, leaving a lip as indicated, and getting it spot welded all round - you will see from the photo of the 2 separated parts that there is plenty of metal there.
    That should do it.

    Thanks for the maths - that explains the Bang! And the mess...
    I suppose I was lucky I didnt bust anything...
    I was pressing a plunger once, and the filter in it went sideways, the whole pot went up my arm... A nasty burn, that one!

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    Re: How to modify Breville 800ES filter... NOT!

    tasadam

    Some baskets (like the Solis I had) have a solid inner basket (takes the pressure) and an add on second one below..... you can cut that out but you still have the strength of the inner basket....

    When I wanted a non pressurised basket for the Solis (non standard size) I went along to the local coffee machine supply/repair place - old basket in hand.... In a couple of minutes the storeman re-appeared with perfect replacement double and single baskets for $12 each (as far as I can recall the cost)... so it can be done! I think they were from a saeco pressurised system.... but the saeco had the pin hole restriction on a baffle in the pf rather than in the second layer of the double basket.

    Leave a very large lip on the main basket.... there is a lot of pressure trying to force the inner out - spot welding wont be all that strong either but would help.... thats why filter baskets are ALWAYS stamped out of a single piece of stainless steel - to resist the tremendous pressure on them.

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    Senior Member robusto's Avatar
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    Re: How to modify Breville 800ES filter... NOT!

    Wont the entire perimeter need to be welded to stop leakage/channelling?

    Otherwise, whats to stop the coffee, grounds and all, coming out of this comparatively large space?

    --Robusto

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    Senior Member tasadam's Avatar
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    Re: How to modify Breville 800ES filter... NOT!

    Well I went on an excursion today. A local engineering place steered me to a sheet metal place. They had a spot welder there, so they put about 10 spot welds around the cup to join the thing back together.

    I then went to buy a replacement basket with dual wall... the local agent had one in stock - sold a double basket to me for $10.90 (supposed to be $12.50 but didnt want to take a $50 note)
    And he threw in a single basket as well...
    Really glad to have a spare "genuine" (as supplied) basket - the wife doesnt know the butchery and hacking that Ive been up to. I had to use the single basket for her coffee this morning and got away with it.

    Then home again and up to the shed and got the file on to the repaired basket. Tidied it up nicely.

    There is no leakage or channeling as the two pieces in photos 4 and 5 above fit together very tightly - I had to use large round of dowel to hammer it back in - really tight. Then after my centre punching as visible in photo 6, and the spot welds, it sealed up really well.

    So... The proof of the pudding is in the tasting, so to speak. So after testing it with a normal grind, I made a too-fine grind, packed it in to fill the basket and tamped it in really well.
    Then into the machine, turn on and stand back in case photo 3 wants to repeat itself.
    The pump groaned for a while and one or two very black drops came through, but no leakage and no bang.

    Gave everything a good wash and made a few shots to try - for now I will say "acceptable".

    Looking forward to now having the chance to produce "real" crema - I did get crema but nothing like the Italian style of being able to balance a teaspoon of sugar on top... That is something I will need a lot of practice and experimenting to achieve - and of course some fresh beans for the Rocky...

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    Re: How to modify Breville 800ES filter... NOT!

    Too late now as it appears your idea of repairing has worked.

    But for future debate, to get around the problem you discovered, would it not be sufficient to drill out the single hole to a diameter approximating that of a single spout? I guess about 5mm.

    The basket would then be almost entirely intact so no problem with blowout and the only potential problem I see is with cleaning.

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    Re: How to modify Breville 800ES filter... NOT!

    Tasadam,

    sorry to post this the day after youve gone and bought a new basket - your Breville looks to have identical baskets to the Sunbeams (all bar the 6910) - in that case, rather than breaking out the powertools, theres some Krups non-pressurised baskets which will apparently fit (Quite a few older posts on CS had info about them - Ive been meaning to get some for a while but havent got around to it yet).

    The Krups part numbers for these are 0907163 (double) and 0925592 (single) - I dont know what state youre in, but they seem to be readily available at most of the Sunbeam/Breville/Krups repair places here in Melbourne (they all seem to do all 3 brands) - from memory they run at about 10-12 bucks each.

    Hope that helps

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    Re: How to modify Breville 800ES filter... NOT!

    Quote Originally Posted by Thundergod link=1168768543/0#7 date=1168868718
    Too late now as it appears your idea of repairing has worked.

    But for future debate, to get around the problem you discovered, would it not be sufficient to drill out the single hole to a diameter approximating that of a single spout? I guess about 5mm.

    The basket would then be almost entirely intact so no problem with blowout and the only potential problem I see is with cleaning.

    TG, that may well work - but first I reckon the "crema enhancer" would have to come out to relieve that bit of extra pressure too (I reckon the OP did that - was that the plastic thingy you took out?)

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    Re: How to modify Breville 800ES filter... NOT!

    Drilling out the centre of the bottom basket would work very well.... and prevent any issues.... the small hole in the bottom is the only crema enhancement feature.

    The black plastic insert is a thermal insulator (and an area for stale coffee oils to collect and nasties to breed) but doesnt have any crema enhancement properties. It is used to prevent a cold pf (assuming it hasnt been pre-heated) from reducing the shot temperature and affecting the flavour.

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    Re: How to modify Breville 800ES filter... NOT!

    oops - sorry JavaB, youre right..... I must have got confused by buzzwords and marketing hype.

    From now on Ill just refer to it as a dreck storer....

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    Senior Member tasadam's Avatar
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    Re: How to modify Breville 800ES filter... NOT!

    Quote Originally Posted by varanid99 link=1168768543/0#8 date=1168869156
    Tasadam,

    sorry to post this the day after youve gone and bought a new basket - your Breville looks to have identical baskets to the Sunbeams (all bar the 6910) - in that case, rather than breaking out the powertools, theres some Krups non-pressurised baskets which will apparently fit (Quite a few older posts on CS had info about them - Ive been meaning to get some for a while but havent got around to it yet).

    The Krups part numbers for these are 0907163 (double) and 0925592 (single) - I dont know what state youre in, but they seem to be readily available at most of the Sunbeam/Breville/Krups repair places here in Melbourne (they all seem to do all 3 brands) - from memory they run at about 10-12 bucks each.

    Hope that helps
    Thanks for all that.
    Well, as the name suggests, Im in Tassie. Our local agent only had these Breville baskets. I dont mind running to $12. I also dont mind a bit for postage.

    Could I be so kind as to ask for one or two of these suppliers in Melbourne that you would recommend - the demand for this sort of thing in Tassie is a bit short.

    I could then call them and have a chat - indeed a friend of mine has a Krups model 965 that needs new baskets and he has been quoted over $20 each...
    So I could sort that out for him while Im at it, and make the postage worthwhile.
    I am willing to buy a proper basket as, well, lets face it, the one I modified is a bit dodgy... *[smiley=wink.gif]

    Drilling could work, but that the two layers are very close so to get a big enough hole, you would be getting very close to the filter layer. As it is, I touched on it with the grinder but only stuffed a couple of holes.

    The plastic thingy in the bottom is as was said, just to collect the stale dregs, no crema enhancing feature there.
    I decided to keep it there - could help to support the bottom of the modified basket, not sure whether it touches or not but it would be close, and the portafilter (what I have always called a group handle) is very deep when you take it out - also it then has 3 holes (screw hole). Heating isnt an issue as I always preheat it by doing a false pour - an unloaded basket for 10 or 15 seconds to make sure everythings hot.

    Thanks to all. Its been fun.

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    Re: How to modify Breville 800ES filter... NOT!

    Quote Originally Posted by tasadam link=1168768543/0#12 date=1168896678

    Could I be so kind as to ask for one or two of these suppliers in Melbourne that you would recommend - the demand for this sort of thing in Tassie is a bit short.
    Ill PM this to you in a sec (as soon as I find it)


    Quote Originally Posted by tasadam link=1168768543/0#12 date=1168896678

    also it then has 3 holes (screw hole).
    Yep, I found that if I just removed it, everything spurted out of the middle hole at a great rate - so I just plugged it with a little nut & bolt.....the heat retention has never been a problem without it, because I preheat it too

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    Senior Member tasadam's Avatar
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    Re: How to modify Breville 800ES filter... NOT!

    Time for an update on how Im going with this modded basket that I made.
    Things are going well. The spot welds havent failed and I am getting some pretty reasonable coffees. Of course, it takes practice and I have been getting a bit of that.
    I have found the one biggest aspect that changed the results for the better since getting this machine - I got some FRESHLY roasted beans.
    What a sweet, pleasant coffee that makes!
    Im still experimenting with grind and tamp pressure to get the extraction right and to try to get a good and lasting crema. I have had some success here, but as I dont want to waste much, I have been doing things daily.
    Have just gone from 13 to 14 on the Rocky, and using just a little more grind and some more tamp pressure.

    As things are working well, and as I have read it is hard to find an alternate filter that fits well, I have decided to stick with this filter for now, and will one day get around to making another one - now that I have the knowledge, I will do it differently and be able to do it neater.

    It isnt that hard to do and for the record, what I would do to modify a double filter for this machine is -

    1. Make sure you have a spare filter so if you stuff up, you can still make coffee.

    2. Take the filter to a sheet metal workshop and get it spot-welded right round the basket side wall - where the inner lip is - you need to do this because it isnt attached and when you grind the base off, you will suffer the same fate as what I did on my first attempt.
    Not that it needs welded right round, mine has been spotted in about 10 places and is holding firm. Not complaining - cost $2 to get spot welded.
    The welder was concerned the spot welder would melt a hole straight through the filter, it was a risk I was prepared to take (nothing to lose from where I was at). Seemed to work okay, didnt look like it wanted to make a hole right through.

    3. Time for the angle grinder - SLOWLY! If I were to do this again, I would use the angle grinder again as I do not own a dremil or anything else that would do the job apart from a file, and a file would be too darn slow.
    Grind bit by bit, nice and steady, just a touch - let it cool. That will stop it from discolouring due to heat, as mine did. Not that it will affect the result apart from its appearance, but as I said, if I were to do it again...
    As soon as you can see the wafer of layers, dig at it with a knife and lever it up. Once you get that far, you can see how much grinding is needed.

    4. Tidy up with a file, wash, sterilize and use.

    I suppose the only thing you need to be careful about is grinding too deep and cutting away the filter base that you have just had welded in place. If that happens, time to start again.

    I am talking about the double basket here, I havent bothered with the single basket. I suppose I might, since I have a spare one. If I do, I will post the how-to once done.

    Cheers!

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    Re: How to modify Breville 800ES filter... NOT!

    Very interesting reading tasadam! Its great following these sorts of projects through on CS!

    Ive got a stack of data on filter baskets (basket internal diameters only), so if you still want to pursue that avenue there are several machines I could direct you to which share very similar internal diameters to the 800. Email me if youre interested and Ill send you the details.

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    Senior Member tasadam's Avatar
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    Re: How to modify Breville 800ES filter... NOT!

    I
    Quote Originally Posted by vicroamer link=1171219646/15#26 date=1177024412
    Hi Tasadam
    Planning on opening up the little pressure hole on my cafe roma basket, probably just grind it bigger, enough to depressurise but still keep enough strength not to blow out. But the inner filter looks to be a thinner gauge and I am a bit concerned it will bow under the full pressure until it rests against the outer basket floor. Since you have been modding yours what are your thoughts.
    My thought is to get it spot welded right round - see my pics. Or better, get a basket that fits properly without the dreaded crema enhancer.
    I havent posted a photo of my welded basket but you can see from the pics what would have been needed.

    If the metal is too thin, there is a risk that the welder will blow holes in the metal. So take advice from your sheet metal worker here - or go with my philosophy - HAVE A GO! If it doesnt work, you can always buy another... But remember to ask him/her how much first - it may be cheaper to get a new basket...

    It is going to be hard to grind an opening bigger and do a tidy job if you dont take it to the edge, and by taking it to the edge you have the problem of blowing out the filter as I did on my 1st attempt (before welding). My photo of the red dotted line is an optomists view, but not practical to achieve without some specialist cutting gear and a steady hand.

    You then have the channeling issue - where the coffee (water) wants to take the easiest path through the basket, so if it can escape down the sides - the gap between the base of the filter and the outer, it will. This is called channeling, as has been discussed earlier, and you get watery coffee as the shot has not been fused through the entire grind but only down the sides or whatever path the water took.
    So to avoid this completely, make sure you get the basket spot welded right round.
    If I get enough interest I will get my single shot basket done and take some action shots...

    Good luck and let us all know how you get on... Photos too??

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    Re: How to modify Breville 800ES filter... NOT!

    My easiest way around it would be to buy and use the $12.00 Krupps basket, I think I will just do that, fit a new group seal at the same time, if i have sealing problems I will have a go at depressurising the original filter, let you know what happens.

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    Re: How to modify Breville 800ES filter... NOT!

    Quote Originally Posted by vicroamer link=1168768543/15#17 date=1177026148
    My easiest way around it would be to buy and use the $12.00 Krupps basket, I think I will just do that, fit a new group seal at the same time, if i have sealing problems I will have a go at depressurising the original filter, let you know what happens.
    Yep Krups baskets are the way to go. Brought 2 doubles a while ago and havent looked back.

    Advantages of Krups baskets over Breville PF (even with the hole drilled out to 3mm).

    • non presurised
    • easier to empty (one hit on the knock box not 3 or 4 as I had with Brevilles PF)
    • one hit to empty = less splater


    Disadvantages

    • smaller (dosent hold as much coffee, the breville double is much deeper)
    • harder to get creama (even if fake it looks good)


    I brought the 800ES before finding coffeesnobs, dont think in hindsight that I would of done differently. About a month later I got my EM0480 grinder and 2 weeks ago a Cascade Popper and a starter pack of beans. Until you roast your own beans or find a supply that you know is fresh you dont really know what good coffee is

    I am still trying to get my grinder dialed in, my next purchase will be a Pullman tamper but for now I have a 52mm one I found on ebay (52mm is too big), and using sand paper have resized to fit my basket.

    Lots of people will tell you that you need enough coffee in the basket to get an impression of the shower screen, to do this with the 800ES you need to fill the basket with enough coffee such that after tamping the level is just below the top (within about 1/2 a mm).

    The result of my coffee journey so far is my wifes comment that my coffee is the best she has ever tasted.

    Cheers
    Greg

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    Senior Member tasadam's Avatar
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    Re: How to modify Breville 800ES filter... NOT!

    Quote Originally Posted by chips60 link=1168768543/15#18 date=1177714146
    Until you roast your own beans or find a supply that you know is fresh you dont really know what good coffee is
    AMEN to that! I now have my crazy popper and havent ever made a coffee so smooth at home before!

    Quote Originally Posted by chips60 link=1168768543/15#18 date=1177714146
    Lots of people will tell you that you need enough coffee in the basket to get an impression of the shower screen.
    Im not sure about that on this machine. I like it strong so only use the double basket that I modified. I normally give it 2 or 3 clicks on the rocky, a light press with the plastic tamp to smooth it off, then fill the basket with more clicks then tamp down hard, twist to polish and away I go. But though I dont know whether it always touches the basket, the results are probably as good as I can hope for from this machine so Ill stick with that for now. Uses a lot of coffee, though. I still need to get myself a proper tamp, which will one day happen.

    Quote Originally Posted by chips60 link=1168768543/15#18 date=1177714146
    The result of my coffee journey so far is my wifes comment that my coffee is the best she has ever tasted.
    Nice one, Greg... Doesnt that make the journey worthwhile!!

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    Re: How to modify Breville 800ES filter... NOT!

    Trouble is she will never make me another coffee.

    Making and enjoying good coffee is what its all about so cant complain. I have even brought a cheap machine for my office at work. $50 Eurolab machine from deals direct. Non presurised filter basket 51mm (dosnt fit the breville). Doesnt do too bad a job as long as you preheat the group handle. Am looking forward to trying some fresh coffee in it when I get back to work on monday.

    :)

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    Re: How to modify Breville 800ES filter... NOT!

    Im glad she likes your coffee.
    Its a good feeling when you get compliments like that.

    Dont expect that DD machine to last too long.

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    Re: How to modify Breville 800ES filter... NOT!

    Hi folks
    My first post! I recently purchased a Cafe Roma (based on good reviews with Choice) and then a Sunbeam 0480 grinder. After a fair bit of experimenting over the last few weeks, I am loving the coffee that it makes, it is nicer than most of the local cafe brews that I am used to (maybe just very good coffee? McIvers Royal Superior Dark is my favourite) which makes me wonder how good it could be with the modifications suggested here (eg. Krupps basket). Can I ask - what is wrong with the standard Breville basket? I understand the dual wall crema enhance and that it makes fake crema, but how does it detract from the flavour? I guess I am also unclear about why real crema is better than fake crema?

    The only problem I am having is the occasional blocked basket (due to the tiny single hole in the lower basket blocking). I use my grinder set at 15 (the courser end of the espresso settings, which range from 12 to 16). I tried it on 16 today to avoid blockages, but the flavour suffered. The blockages are usually fixed by an overnight soak in vinegar, so I was thinking about just getting a couple of extra baskets.

    Another question while I am at it - I was surprised to read here that people tamp down very hard - I thought it was best only done with moderate pressure - does this depend on which basket is being used? Should I tamp hard with the standard breville basket?

    Sorry if this info is already posted somewhere - and happy to be pointed in the right direction if so.
    Cheers and thanks in anticipation of your help,
    DIG

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    Re: How to modify Breville 800ES filter... NOT!

    DIG,

    Hi and welcome to CoffeeSnobs....

    Rather than typing it all again..... have a read of

    http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1180165483#10

    Crema enhancing baskets - when they pass the tiny stream of coffee through the pinhole - they mix it with air to get the crema..... and air is the enemy of the oils in the coffee (and the real crema).

    No dont tamp hard with one of these baskets.... and dont grind too fine either. The pressure is generated by the pinhole.... so if you grind fine and tamp hard (like you do with a "proper" basket....) it will just block up on you.

    The taste difference with real baskets and freshly roasted coffee (no point in using that with crema enhancing baskets by the way) you will not believe..... but you will then need a good grinder (the Sunbeam will be fine) and technique.

    Enjoy your journey into great coffee.

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    Re: How to modify Breville 800ES filter... NOT!

    Its odd but that Ive seen a few baskets moded like the OP original without the base blowing out like that - Ive done one myself for a friend with an angle grinder.

    I think the trick is to not be too neat about removing the metal near the edge of the base and to fold any edges back in (and maybe hammer them flush with an inner mandrel).

    Its a real shame that the Krups basket is smaller than the Breville/Sunbeam double as that is only about the size of a 58mm single.

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    Re: How to modify Breville 800ES filter... NOT!

    Thanks for the explanation - I was just starting to feel like I knew what I was doing with my setup, until finding this site.... It looks like either a Krups non-pressurised basket, OR, modify the pressurised basket. A couple of questions if I may:

    1. I saw a couple of posts that suggest the Krups basket isnt a perfect fit in the breville machine (a bit too loose and it isnt as deep) - is this a significant problem? Also I have noticed several posts asking where these can be purchased, and the answer is look it up in the yellow pages. I tried this but cant find anywhere that says they provide Krups baskets. Can anyone give more direct answer (eg. a website or phone number?).

    2. It seems to me that the idea of just drilling out the small hole a little (eg. 2 or 3mm) as suggested in some of the earlier posts should solve all the problems, without the need to remove the entire lower part of the basket? The basket will still fit, and the coffee will now be the cause of any pressure because the hole is too big to cause significant pressure itself - ie. it will effectively work like a non-pressurised basket?. I saw a couple of posts where this was suggested or tried, but didnt get much of an idea about how well it works (sorry if I missed this). Is there any reason why drilling a small hole would be inferior to getting the Krups non-pressurised basket for the Breville machine?

    Thanks again

  27. #27
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    Re: How to modify Breville 800ES filter... NOT!

    This was my orignal intent when I modified one but I found that he gap between the false, pressed in base and the pressurising base is very small so there is still likely to be some pressurising effect with an enlarged center hole.

    It is likely to be better than original but I dont think it would be as good as one where more of the inner base was exposed.

    Plus it is quite difficult to remove just the center portion of the lower base as the gap is so small that it would be easy to drill/grind through the upper base as well.

  28. #28
    DIG
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    Re: How to modify Breville 800ES filter... NOT!

    yes, I was thinking a dremel with a fine grinding bit and a very steady hand would be required, but if the two layers are very close you may be right - there may still be too much pressure, although I would imagine it only needs to be less than that provided by the coffee for it to not be a problem - ie. as long as the coffee itself provides the pressure bottleneck, it should be OK - Does this sound right?

  29. #29
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    Re: How to modify Breville 800ES filter... NOT!

    Id give it a go - it wouldnt hurt as you could always go back and open up more if you didnt find much difference

  30. #30
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    Re: How to modify Breville 800ES filter... NOT!

    Actually,

    It isnt just the coffee which provides resistance to water flow, the cumulative cross-sectional area of the holes in the bottom of the basket do their bit too. If you have a look at a single (normal) basket, you will notice that it has significantly fewer holes than the double so as to allow for similar shot pour times with only half the amount of coffee,

    Mal.

  31. #31
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    Re: How to modify Breville 800ES filter... NOT!

    True, but Ive never seen a waisted 53mm basket so I dont see that applying here.

  32. #32
    DIG
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    Re: How to modify Breville 800ES filter... NOT!

    Update - Breville are sending me a spare basket, so I will try enlarging the hole in the first one and Ill be able to do a controlled experiment or two. I will report back with my findings.

  33. #33
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    Re: How to modify Breville 800ES filter... NOT!

    Have you done any testing as yet?

  34. #34
    DIG
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    Re: How to modify Breville 800ES filter... NOT!

    A little. I drilled 4 larger holes (approximately 1mm each). I was intending to do more but my dremel bit wasnt very good and lost its edge, but I am sure I will have substantially depressurised the basket with roughly at least 10 times the outlet area that it used to have. I am still comparing variables every time I make a coffee but I havent noticed a dramatic difference. The crema is different (probably because it is real crema rather than enhanced/fake crema), and the coffee seems to have a little bit more body, but I am not convinced I could pick the difference in a blind test. I think the non-pressurised basket introduces more variables (tamp pressure and therefore amount of coffee) that I am still optimising. The other thing that is a bit annoying is that the coffee isnt flowing out evenly from the two holes any more. Since I usually make two lattes from one double basket, this is a hassle as I have to balance them out afterward. I am not really ready to make any conclusions yet, need to test it a bit more, but my first impression is that the coffee is REALLY good (better than most cafe coffee in my experience) with the pressurised basket, and marginally better maybe, but also more variable, with the non-pressurised mod basket. I have been using fresh roasted beans (Fidels blend) from Coffea in Melbourne, so I am pretty confident that the coffee itself is first class. I will need a bit more time before I am convinced one way or the other and will post again then.

  35. #35
    DIG
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    Re: How to modify Breville 800ES filter... NOT!

    As an update. I decided to try my tiny angle grinder bit on the dremel. I used this to cut a small square hole (roughly 5x5mm). I have only made 2 coffees since then, but it has definitely changed the appearance. Now, there is no sign of the false (pale and fluffy) crema. It also flowed a bit better this time (I have my sunbeam grinder set on 14, and tamped to something like 10kg - prior to the mod, this would barely have flowed and probably would have blocked). With regard to the taste of the coffee - my opinion is similar to that in my previous post, although I am more convinced that it has improved (stronger/more body), but Im not sure I would say it is dramatically better....Further update. Two more brews down the track, nice dry pucks, and consistently improved depth and body to the brew. It takes a bit more getting used to obviously, but I think I will have to recommend performing the modification, but ideally, you should try to get yourself a spare basket just in case the mod doesnt work or you prefer the simplicity and ease of the pressurised basket (which can still produce quite high standard espresso in my (relatively inexperienced) opinion). The only downside I have found is that the two cups usually dont fill evenly - maybe my tamping needs work...

  36. #36
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    Re: How to modify Breville 800ES filter... NOT!

    With that tiny basket, I wouldnt try to make 2 cups at a time but to use the double basket to pull a single shot. The Breville/Sunbeam double basket is about the size (capacity) of a commercial 58mm single basket.

  37. #37
    DIG
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    Re: How to modify Breville 800ES filter... NOT!

    Yes, I am a bit surprised about what I can get from the small double basket on my machine. I used to make single coffees at a time because the double basket didnt hold enough for two cups, before I got my Sunbeam grinder, but now I can get sigificantly more out of the same amount of beans due to the finer grind, and I find that I am getting quite strong and full bodied lattes (2 from the double basket) with the coffee I am using, particularly now that I have modified the basket and can tamp it firmly. I am using quite strong/full bodied coffee (Fidels blend from Coffea) that is freshly roasted, and my latte glasses are pretty typical of cafe latte glasses (ie. smallish), so it seems to work quite well (and I am much happier not having to do the whole procedure twice!). Certainly, the lattes I make with this set up are stronger and more full bodied than most of my cafe experiences, so I am pretty happy with the results.

  38. #38
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    Re: How to modify Breville 800ES filter... NOT!

    With lattes you can get away with it but the small basket capacity still means that dual shots will be somewhat overextracted and you will be getting far more caffiene as a result.

    Try the shots as straight up espressos and you should be able to taste/feel a clear difference between a single and a double shot (~25 sec extraction for both). Average cafe quality isnt that great - many have no idea of how good espresso can/should be.

  39. #39
    DIG
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    Re: How to modify Breville 800ES filter... NOT!

    OK, I will try it. If I end up deciding I need to buy myself an EM6910 as a result, you will have to answer to my wife...

  40. #40
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    Re: How to modify Breville 800ES filter... NOT!

    Quote Originally Posted by DIG link=1168768543/30#34 date=1182994568
    The only downside I have found is that the two cups usually dont fill evenly - maybe my tamping needs work...
    Dig,

    Just a thought, the plastic doo-hickey in the pf is what balances (directs it, is probably a better phrase) the amount of coffee coming out of the spouts. If your holes dont line up with the centre of the plastic bit then you will get uneven amounts out of each spout, however if you have taken the plastic doo-hickey out, then I couldnt comment. Have been thinking of doing the same with my EM3600 baskets, but was inclined to just enlarge the single hole.

    I am also in a place where there are no service agents readily available to source baskets from.

  41. #41
    DIG
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    Re: How to modify Breville 800ES filter... NOT!

    Hi Boldor
    My modified/enlarged hole still sits over the centre of the plastic dohicky thing, although it is square rather than round (I will take a photo if there is any interest. but basically I cut a ~5mm2 section out of the centre of the lower layer of my pressurised basket), so it may be spraying the stream around a bit before it hits the plastic thing. It isnt too great a problem, occasionally I just need to transfer a teaspoon or two from one glass to the other.
    DIG

  42. #42
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    Re: How to modify Breville 800ES filter... NOT!

    Have tried all the suggested methods for unblocking double wall filters for the Breville series 800 machines but they only work for a limited time. A new method that does a good job of destructing the congealed oils and waxes between the two walls is to apply heat to the outside wall with a propane torch
    until no more smoke comes off (the metal may blue slightly with the heat, but does not seem to change its function).
    The filter is cleaned with hot detergent, and is then back to as new.

  43. #43
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    Re: How to modify Breville 800ES filter... NOT!

    see my post re unblocking double wall filter


    mercaptan



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