Welcome to CoffeeSnobs [smiley=thumbsup.gif]. Dont know anything about the Breville Ikon but found a review about one here (though probably not completely unbiased) that might help you out,
I am considering purchasing the Breville Ikon Espresso Machine (BES400), and would appreciate feedback anyone might be able to provide on this product.
I currently use a Breville Cafe Roma at work, and had planned to purchase this same unit before coming across the Ikon. *On paper it seems well specified for the price, and currently it is being promoted with a free conical burr grinder (BCG450).
Going from a Thermoblock machine with supermarket, pre-ground coffee, to a boiler machine and fresh ground coffee seems to be a logical step? *Are there any other good options I should compare, considering the sub $300 price tag?
All advice would be much appreciated.
Welcome to CoffeeSnobs [smiley=thumbsup.gif]. Dont know anything about the Breville Ikon but found a review about one here (though probably not completely unbiased) that might help you out,
Hi stucci and welcome to CoffeeSnobs....
The machine looks to be quite capable of good coffee.... Just one issue - it (like most cheaper domestic machines) has a dual wall basket. It is used to produce something looking like crema from old stale supermarket coffee. If you use fresh beans it will reduce the quality compared to what it could be without the dual wall baskets. You can sometimes get "normal" baskets to fit these machines - but I couldnt find the size of the PF so not sure with this model.
The grinder is a burr grinder - a "multi-purpose coffee and spice grinder" according to their site. This will not be good enough for a normal espresso machine (for example if you replace the baskets on the BES400).... You will find the steps will be pretty large (grinding for a normal basket requires fine steps) and the burrs wont be very accurate.
The combo (as supplied) will make reasonable coffee without any modification.... with normal baskets it will make very good, possibly even great coffee (with good technique) - but for that you would also need a better grinder.
Stainless Steel Boiler... interesting... I wonder how big the boiler is.??
I have used it and its not too bad....I think the boiler is 200ml...
What it needs is a 3 way valve and non-pressurised baskets......Of the cheapies, it gets a big thumbs up...
Big call from you Chris... wow... 200mil.... bigger than the Gaggia boiler...
very interesting... Sunbeam really do have some competition now :P:P:-)
Thanks for all of the information, this has been helpful.
I have measured the basket, with the hope it is interchangeable with other machines, it is 53mm in diameter and approximately 23mm high. I will do some research, but has anyone out there already gone down this path?
Once again, thanks for the comments.
If it is 53 mm there are saeco and Krups non pressurised baskets which should fit.
You would need to take the PF to a service centre / spare parts supplier for the above machines in your state..... and see if you can find one which fits. You are basically replacing the supplied basket with a "normal" basket from a different manufacturer.
Hope that helps.
by all accounts, it sounds like being a half decent machine, SS boiler and all and getting the saeco/\/krups baskets... I wonder if the SS (boiler) is of any decent quality? (The Magnet trick)
Yep, stainless steel boiler and electronic temperature control of the boiler temperature using a thermistor in the boiler.... should make for very tight control of brew temperature (kinda like a simple PID)....
The machine does look very interesting and with decent baskets (and a good grinder) should perform very well.
Definitely a very good value for money machine at this price point. :) :)
I have both Krupps baskets, I will get some accurate measurments for you tonightOriginally Posted by stucci link=1178803379/0#6 date=1178859270
all the Breville machines using that baket size have been the same so the krupps should fit
Very interesting machine... Im really interested in taking one for a drive :)
... and Silvia. :)Originally Posted by marcstolk link=1178803379/0#5 date=1178857596
It is on sale for $278 at Domayne right now.
I wouldnt be worrying too much if I was Silvia, however, its not a bad start point for those on a tight budget. With a depressurised p/f (if it can be done), I think it will be a good pickup....As per usual, it will still need a good grinder....Originally Posted by Monti link=1178803379/0#12 date=1179807325
Also, this Breville Ikon looks very nice, indeed. If you want a Silvia, make sure not to show this one to the Mrs.
the PF on this machine is a wimpy one.. but if you can use "REAL" baskets then its probably a good pickup as 2mcm has said...
Hi there, just wondering if anyone knows if this offer is still current?Originally Posted by stucci link=1178803379/0#0 date=1178803379
My wife really loves her coffee and although we have never owned an espresso machine before, this combination sounds like good value. I am thinking of getting her this for her birthday in a couple of weeks. Anyone knows if this offer is still valid?
Thanks in advance.
I donno about the offer, but dont get that grinder anyway. You are better off getting a good grinder. Even if you cannot afford an expensive one you could get the Sunbeam Cafe Series EM0480 at the least. I got one for $170 from Good Guys, I think.
Agree 100% with Monti....
The coffee machine looks very interesting..... but the grinder is a "multi-purpose coffee and spice grinder"...... it wont be nearly good enough for espresso.
"Also, this Breville Ikon looks very nice, indeed. If you want a Silvia, make sure not to show this one to the Mrs."
I agree, its a very nice looking unit.
If your SOH does choose it over Silvia, dont panic....
Just get him/her to remove the PF right after pulling their first shot. The dangerous spray of hot grinds and subsequent cleanup, following the portafilter sneeze makes for an easy justification for an upgrade to any three way valve based machine.
Ive seen the Breville Grinder and it is a geniune Conical Burrset... but I think its in the league of the Delonghi KG100... and itll probably do a good enough job with the Dual Wall baskets but outside of that, Im not so sure...
Can you please link to where this is shown or have you pulled one down yourself?Originally Posted by JavaB link=1178803379/0#9 date=1178862579
Ill be tempted to buy one and gut it for these parts if its that sophisticated.
kaanageOriginally Posted by kaanage link=1178803379/15#21 date=1181100589
Nominated for Australian design award. Nice piece of kit for this price.
Thanks!!! The Breville site was of no use when I went researching this machine. It does look very nice for the price.
The internal layout mut be rather interesting to squeeze that sized boiler in such a flat design. I hope they havent made the boiler remote, with piping to the group, in order to achieve that look.
Yeah, bit like the Sunbeam site with some of their models.... just advertising blurb.... no real details.Originally Posted by kaanage link=1178803379/15#23 date=1181101996
Id say the boiler is part of the group assembly so it starts where the group fits and goes upward to just about the top of the case..... similar to the Solis and several other makes (gives very good heat coupling and stability to the PF) - doesnt take much room to fit boilers of this size unlike the 17L boiler in my La Cimbali ;)
I dunno - even a teeny boiler (someone said it was about 200ml) needs some space + you need to allow for the steam to be drawn from the top of the boiler, so Im not totally convinced. The boiler would need to be very flat.
Has anyone here (or anywhere reliable) actually used and thoroughly tested one of these yet?
Yeah Greg- we have had one floating around at the academy for a couple of years....Originally Posted by kaanage link=1178803379/15#25 date=1181109235
It does have a boiler- 200ml but where it is, I have no idea. I havent pulled the unit down. Crappy pressurised baskets, no 3 way valve and a light, cheap non-standard p/f...
For all of that, it does the job pretty well and certainly way better than the 800 series.
Years? It couldnt be the thermistor one could it, Chris?
BTW been ages since Ive seen ya.
Are you the same kaanage from DTV forum that sells Loudspeakers?Originally Posted by kaanage link=1178803379/15#27 date=1181110314
Not really sells. I take them out to people who have contacted Rick for a home demo so they can trial them for a couple of weeks.
This a great site - lots of helpful info. Ive had my Ikon for a few months now and am pretty happy with it, for what it is.
But now Ive read on here about the crappiness of the filter basket and Id like to get the single wall replacement (Krups? Saeco?). My measurement confirms the 53mm size. Where could I go to get such a thing on the net? Or is there a place anywhere in the Parramatta - Penrith (Western Sydney) region that I could purchase one?
Must go....its coffee time.
Gday Gaz - Welcome to CoffeeSnobs mate [smiley=thumbsup.gif],
Yep, the Saeco/Krups baskets are the way to go alright but to be able to use them, you will in turn need to have a decent grinder so if you dont already own one, you will need to figure that into the purchasing equation. As youve probably already read, to get really great coffee, you need to use freshly roasted coffee beans and grind them immediately before brewing. Preground coffee goes stale very quickly, in a matter of minutes, so thats where having a decent grinder comes into play. Adequate espresso capable grinders start from the Iberital Challenge at the sub $300 mark and head all the way up to "the skys the limit".
A lot of people also use the Sunbeam EMO480 grinder or its siblings but the build quality can be a bit hit and miss although some owners have had reasonable service from their particular grinder. These are not a true espresso grinder though as the step adjustments from one setting to another are a bit too large and can lead to frustration in getting the grind "dialed in" to your espresso machine.
Another item that you will need to have when using standard baskets, is a decent Tamper that is a good fit to the baskets you are using, i.e. the better the fit, the less likely you will end up with water channeling through the walls of the puck where the coffee meets the basket side wall. Id recommend a chat to one or more of our site sponsors to help you get the ball rolling and ensure that you are kitted out with the basic necessities to ensure an enjoyable transition from the bad ol pressurised baskets to the wonderful world of true espresso,
Thanks for the helpful advice, Mal. Ive been using beans sourced from a local roaster/blender and grinding in a Sunbeam 450; will probably stick with that for budgetary reasons, at least for the present time. But Ill certainly get a better tamper than the plastic one that comes with the Ikon - once I manage to find where to get the new filter basket. Ive developed the habit of fairly careful tamping but I can see how the loose fit of the standard one would impact badly on the process.
I know CS member Coffee NOW has just bought one on special and came with the Breville Grinder. Will be interested to here what he thinks after using it for a few days now.
Yep thats right "The Goodies" I have now got my first coffee machine. 8-)
Got the "Ikon" with the Breville grinder on Monday and have used it every day and love it, very easy to use and clean.
As far as I can tell it makes a great tasting coffee and I will no longer use that instant stuff.
I havent posted much yet but have gained some very helpful info before getting my first machine.
The Ikon is good value for money as a beginners espresso machine in my opinion.
I was at DFO at Essendon today, and I went over to the HUGE electrical place across from it and the Ikon was on show with the grinder as a "BONUS".
Nice looking machine....BUT I dont like the tiny little steamer that it offers.
What actually took my eye was the EM6910, now the steam wand on that is really really good....and it is a rather sexy looking little machine. [smiley=happy.gif]
if you cant find a new filter basket without the dual wall, drill some holes (rather carefully) in the bottom of the one that came with it ;)
I did it with my dual walled sunbeam one and it works better.... (not an ideal situation tho...)
You must have had a small drill bit. Those holes are tiny (pin like)
My concern with leaving the "Dual Wall" in place would be to do more with the possibility of grunge building up and collecting between the walls over time and thereafter creating a hotbed for all sorts of horrible nasties to grow and multiply.
Anything that allows you to use a proper single wall, non-pressurised basket is preferable in my opinion,
Yes - it would be harder to clean, but I guess a modified dual wall would be no worse (and possibly better) than a non-mod dual wall in that regard. Are there any known problems with dual wall filters building up gunk over time? I used one in my previous machine for a couple of years and didnt notice any problems. Breville told me that it was worth giving the filter an occasional soak in a 1/3 vinegar 2/3 water solution overnight from time to time, which they also recommended for cleaning/decalcifying the machine out now and then.
First of all, thankyou to all who have added to this post, your input has been most helpful.
I now have road tested this machine, and am very happy overall. The design and build quality, for the price, is excellent in my opinion.
As always mentioned when discussing any Breville machine, the dual wall baskets are the major limitation for anyone looking to make real coffee. I have butchered the single shot basket in the short term, and the difference is obvious - even to my uneducated palate. I will be sourcing a proper non-pressurised basket soon and will post details for anyone who is interested.
I am no expert on grinders, but the BCG450 seems to be working reasonably well, even with the modified basket. I am able to get a fairly firm puck and good crema (from fresh beans). I expect the limitations will become more obvious over time, but for now I am quite happy to have the ability to grind my own beans.
The only other thing you will need to complete the package is a proper tamper, the one included looks good but is completely useless.
Would appreciate if you could post where to source the non-pressurized baskets for this machine when you track them down. Ive tried a place called all appliances in heidelberg melbourne but they didnt have any that fit.
Just want to add some impressions to the above, having just bought the Ikon/grinder combination so we can get our coffee hit at work as well as home. I say impressions, because its only 24 hours since we bought it - $255 at a Good Guys in Melbourne (incredible value, considering the write ups and the Oz design award for the BES400).
First, the grinder - for comparison I have a Sunbeam EM 480 at home, which happily has not given me any of the problems suffered by some others. I find that with a gentle touch its easy enough to adjust it to the perfect grind between click stops if necessary.
Likewise, with the Breville BCG450 I have had no problems getting the grind I wanted for an optimum pour - in fact it seemed almost too easy. Perhaps the naysayers should actually try one of these out before offering an opinion.
Im not saying that either of these grinders is up to the standard of a $400 and above grinder, but it is clearly possible to obtain good results from them - something simply not possible with many cheap grinders.
In my very short experience with the Breville (and about 4 months with the Sunbeam), I would say that the Sunbeam is a considerably better machine - probably a much better conical burr set, and heavier duty construction where it matters.
But of course, I got my Sunbeam grinder for a discounted $160, and the whole Breville combo comes in at a total of (a heavily discounted) $255, so theres a strong case for buying the combo, and then upgrading down the track to something like the Sunbeam, or an Iberital or whatever.
As I recall, the Sunbeam has a long guarantee on the motor - I would be surprised if the Breville does (cant access the details at the moment). Breville is considerably slower, but also much quieter, and doesnt suffer from the static/clumping/spraying characteristics of the SB. Its also neater and more compact.
Not much to say yet on the BES400 Espresso machine - except that the double wall pressurised baskets really are horrible, and I cant wait to install proper ones. Im wondering if Saeco might be the better choice as the Krups double basket is apparently on the small side (capacity). The BES400 is not my first boiler machine, but I am pleasantly surprised at how quickly it is ready for the first pour.
Just following up on the Krups filter basket, the part numbers (as previously posted elsewhere) are, double: MS-0907163, single: MS-0925592. The double is a bit on the small side, so I dont see much point in buying the single. For the double I paid $15.50 from Morrow Electrics in Perth (08 9324 1755). They are the local Krups repair and service agent.
This basket comes from the Krups Vivo and is a perfect fit. Well worth the investment, no comparison in the coffe quality compared with the original baskets.
Thanks Stucci, thats just the info I have been hoping for. Now I know what to ask for when I go looking for replacement filter baskets.
Did you leave the plastic insert in the handle? It looks as though removing it would leave a pretty large couple of holes in the base of the handle.
I only replaced the basket, I have not modified the PF. The basket eject button works with the Krups basket (the double at least).
I have been reading your posts for a while now and thought I would join in, I have had the BES400 for about 3 weeks now and am very happy with it, I can not give any real opinions as I know nothing about coffee machines and this is my first one. I do know I like the coffee I am making from it and would buy a cup of mine over some of the bitter tasting sludge I have paid $3 plus for from a few coffee shops.
A few things that I like and have found easy to use are the water container or tank, very easy to see water level and easy to pull in and out to refill, the steam wand has a good range of movements and allows you to move the milk jug around without hitting anything, I thought the machine heated the water very quickly, only a couple of minutes before the 3 lights come on indicating it is ready, the machine is also very easy to clean.
I didnt expect the pump to be as noisy as it is but then I have never heard one before, and it takes a while for the water to stop running from the steam wand before steam is produced, I guess this is normal as no one else has mentioned it.
I dont understand yet what the problem is with the filler, maybe someone can help me out there, what does a single skin filler do that this double skin doesnt do.
I dont have a grinder and have started out with a coffee called Rosebank Gold Premium Arabica Coffee Gold Blend Espresso, it is from northern nsw just around the corner and over the hill from me, so I thought I would give it ago and support the locals. It is very smooth and would suit the milk coffee drinkers, which I am one of.
Oh and one more question if its ok, I read on coffee snobs and a few other sites that you should get about 30ml from 20sec, when does the 20sec start, as soon as you press the button, if I count 20sec from when coffee first starts to come out I end up with about 100ml of coffee with half the coffee looking like water, so I have been just watching the colour and turning off when I first see it go watery.
Looking forward to learning from you guys.
Tony, you have started on a journey to obsession and caffeine-induced insanity, just like the rest of us!
Getting a grinder is essential, if you want to get to the next level of nirvana. Freshly ground coffee makes a huge difference.
Your pours are far too quick - the standard is 25 seconds, from when the first drip comes out, and you will find a big difference in the quality of your coffee when you get the right timing. Thats another reason you need a grinder, to adjust to the exact grind.
I have a new Ikon at work, and the Krups unpressurised double basket I ordered a couple of weeks ago arrived today, and I can tell you there is a major improvement in quality, as expected. I paid $12.
The pressurised Breville basket has the added failing of building up bitter old coffee flavours if not rigorously cleaned 2 or 3 times a week. Chuck it!
The other thing to do immediately is to throw away the awful joke "tamper" supplied with the machine. The ideal is a purpose made tamper, though my dirty secret is that I am using a plastic device from an older machine, with acceptable results - mainly because it fits the basket exactly with no gap at all - but there is no doubt that a proper tamper would be much better.
That review by the gadgetguy was looking good and convincing ........until the part where it said Breville claimed the 2L tank held enough water to produce 65 single espressos.
So here, according to Breville, we have the worlds first espresso machine which converts water into 100% coffee. No wastage anywhere.
The occasional problem of watery pucks does not exist for Breville --because the puck absorbs not one drop of water.
No need to flush the shower screen. Ever. Every millimetre goes into the coffee cup.
In the planets best interest then Ill have to get me one of those.