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Thread: HELP! EM5800 tripping mains safety switch.....

  1. #1
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    HELP! EM5800 tripping mains safety switch.....

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Hi all,

    Im hoping someone with some tech knowledge may be able to help.

    My EM5800 a few weeks ago started tripping the mains box safety switch (not the fuse). At this point the safety switch stopped working, and I subsequently had it replaced by an electrician. Even with the new switch installed, the EM5800 is still tripping the switch.

    I took it into a Sunbeam repairer here in Sydney and no fault with the EM5800 was detected....worked perfectly at the repair centre.

    Havent had a coffee in weeks and my nerves are getting the better of me!

    What could be wrong here? Any suggestions would be appreciated.

    -Cheers,

    Ashley

    PS. In order to get the safety switch to trip all I need to do is plug in the power cord to any socket in the house. I dont even get a chance to turn on the machine or the power point for that matter before the safety switch kicks in.

  2. #2
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    Re: HELP! EM5800 tripping mains safety switch.....

    was the repairer using an earth leakage protected test point

    possible fault in electrical cord to machine

    graham

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    Re: HELP! EM5800 tripping mains safety switch.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Ashley link=1222234924/0#0 date=1222234924
    PS. In order to get the safety switch to trip all I need to do is plug in the power cord to any socket in the house. I dont even get a chance to turn on the machine or the power point for that matter before the safety switch kicks in.
    Sounds like there is a leakage between the Earth and Neutral. You dont even need to have the power on for that to happen. Its how I used to trip a circuit when I was too lazy to run to the switchboard to turn off the power before playing with the powerpoint...... I didnt tell you that though.

    Like Graham said, it could be a leakage in the cord itself, or even leading into the terminal block of the machine. There could be a dead cocky lying across the terminals - they love getting in there.

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    Re: HELP! EM5800 tripping mains safety switch.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Ashley link=1222234924/0#0 date=1222234924
    Hi all,

    Im hoping someone with some tech knowledge may be able to help.

    My EM5800 a few weeks ago started tripping the mains box safety switch (not the fuse). At this point the safety switch stopped working, and I subsequently had it replaced by an electrician. Even with the new switch installed, the EM5800 is still tripping the switch.

    I took it into a Sunbeam repairer here in Sydney and no fault with the EM5800 was detected....worked perfectly at the repair centre.

    Havent had a coffee in weeks and my nerves are getting the better of me!

    What could be wrong here? Any suggestions would be appreciated.

    -Cheers,

    Ashley

    PS. In order to get the safety switch to trip all I need to do is plug in the power cord to any socket in the house. I dont even get a chance to turn on the machine or the power point for that matter before the safety switch kicks in.
    Gday Ashley,

    Welcome to CoffeeSnobs.... [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

    Do you have any other appliances with heating elements, such as an immersed element kettle, that you use irregularly? A quick and nasty test to make sure your RCD device isnt over-sensitive would be to use such an appliance and see if this causes a trip. If it holds up OK, then the RCD is probably OK too.

    Given this scenario, I would take your unit to a licensed electrician, explain whats happening and ask to have the EM5800 tested for possible shorts or leakage. If this reveals a problem with the unit, ask the sparky to write a brief report about his/her findings so that you can provide this to the authorised Sunbeam repairer, or return to Sunbeam for replacement/repair.

    Even though you can get the unit to trip the RCD just by plugging it in to the power socket, the problem could still reside within the espresso machine and may even be due to a cocky seeking respite in an inconvenient location, as Yeeza has suggested.... ;)

    All the best Ashley, hope it gets sorted out quickly for you, :)

    Cheers,
    Mal.

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    Re: HELP! EM5800 tripping mains safety switch.....

    Thanks all for your replies and suggestions!

    Just to answer a few of the direct questions ..... Not sure if the repairer was using a "earth leakage protected test point".....I did ask if he had a safety switch installed, and he said yes. So I assume that is the same thing? He said he had a safety switch on the "6 socket power board" and in the mains box. It didnt seem to trip either.

    Before I took the unit in for repair, I took the back off and checked for "cockies"...it was clean as a whistle.....no sign of corrosion anywhere either.

    I do have an immersed element kettle (at least an electric kettle of some sort) and it doesnt play havoc with the safety switch. Although, only 3 weeks ago I had to return a toaster as it was tripping the switch. But as I mentioned, I have since had the safety switch totally replaced since then.

    I have just found my old EM3500 and that powers up without fault! I guess this only puts more weight on their being a problem with the machine.

    But it is a puzzle as to why it worked without fault at the sunbeam repairer......I can only assume as a sunbeam authorised repair agent he knows what hes doing.

    Mal....would an electrician testing the machine be different to what the sunbeam guy did? ie can he test for differing levels of ground leakage?

    Thanks again,

    Ashley





  6. #6
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    Re: HELP! EM5800 tripping mains safety switch.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Ashley link=1222234924/0#4 date=1222317812
    I can only assume as a sunbeam authorised repair agent he knows what hes doing.
    You know what they say about why you should never assume dont you?

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    Re: HELP! EM5800 tripping mains safety switch.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Ashley link=1222234924/0#4 date=1222317812
    Mal....would an electrician testing the machine be different to what the sunbeam guy did? ie can he test for differing levels of ground leakage?
    Im not trying to knock the repair shop guy, he may well be a licensed electrician but he may also only have a restricted ticket that allows him to repair appliances. Im just trying to think from a safety perspective here Ashley and a licensed electrician is a fully qualified person in this area. And yes, there are different grades of RCD protection depending on the particular installation within the repairers premises. It would probably be a good idea to have your home installation checked by the same electrician too, just to make sure that there isnt something odd going on. Better to be safe than sorry in my view....

    Cheers mate,
    Mal.

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    Re: HELP! EM5800 tripping mains safety switch.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Ashley link=1222234924/0#4 date=1222317812
    Thanks all for your replies and suggestions!

    Just to answer a few of the direct questions ..... Not sure if the repairer was using a "earth leakage protected test point".....I did ask if he had a safety switch installed, and he said yes. So I assume that is the same thing? He said he had a safety switch on the "6 socket power board" and in the mains box. It didnt seem to trip either.

    Before I took the unit in for repair, I took the back off and checked for "cockies"...it was clean as a whistle.....no sign of corrosion anywhere either.

    I do have an immersed element kettle (at least an electric kettle of some sort) and it doesnt play havoc with the safety switch. Although, only 3 weeks ago I had to return a toaster as it was tripping the switch. But as I mentioned, I have since had the safety switch totally replaced since then.

    I have just found my old EM3500 and that powers up without fault! I guess this only puts more weight on their being a problem with the machine.

    But it is a puzzle as to why it worked without fault at the sunbeam repairer......I can only assume as a sunbeam authorised repair agent he knows what hes doing.

    Mal....would an electrician testing the machine be different to what the sunbeam guy did? ie can he test for differing levels of ground leakage?

    Thanks again,

    Ashley
    Regardless of Electrician or Restricted... *The testing method is the same... and covered by AS3760 which is also mandated by LAW for all states of Australia. * *However a As3760 check is about *Insulation and Earthing, as to if the device *is safe. * *Measurement of these as a standard test, is usually with the unit OFF *and *heating elements or other modules may not be engaged, thus the static measurements are only about the equipment safety... * Not about how well it works.

    AS3551 is around Medical devices and this requires leakage currents to be measured ( Different requirements for different classes and patient contact devices etc) and will give a better indication of leakage. However most electricians do not have all teh lest equipment to perform at the very low levels as required in medical.

    However, you must also remember that all the leakage is accumulative, thus in a Worksop or other area where strict controls may be in place... *A single unit could have some levels of leakage that do not exceed requirements, but may still be on the high side. *If every thing else is good.... Then the main system will not trip.

    If however you had a number of items (all low leakage) but were on at the same time, *the total could be enough to trip the main breaker...

    If your system tested SAFE (AS3760) and did not trip the Worksop ( As a workshop required to be fully tested every 3 to 6 months), then I would be suggesting that one or more other items on the same cct, in you place, is pushing the TOTAL allowed limit to teh extent: *that the safety switch is tripping. *Yes you can check the safety switch... but would suggest that it is doing what it is required to... * *

    One or more items or house wiring is potentially at fault...

    Disclaimer: *The statement above is made on the assumptions that the background and detail provided is accurate and that the unit has been tested to AS3760 and passed.



  9. #9
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    Re: HELP! EM5800 tripping mains safety switch.....

    Quote Originally Posted by AngerManagement link=1222234924/0#7 date=1222682736
    Regardless of Electrician or Restricted... The testing method is the same... and covered by AS3760 which is also mandated by LAW for all states of Australia.
    True AM.....

    My concern is directed more to the adequate understanding of the regs you referred to and in my experience, this has been more thoroughly understood and applied by fully licensed and qualified people. Even though the standards intended to regulate these and all other matters related to electrical installations and equipment in Australia is a National Standard, the same can not be said for the individual State controls and regs that allow people to possess "restricted" licenses. There is significant variation from State to State but much more convergence where fully licensed persons are concerned.

    Mal.

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    Re: HELP! EM5800 tripping mains safety switch.....

    did you get it working? If you replaced it I am looking for a EM5800 parts doaner would you be able to help?

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    A_M
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    Re: HELP! EM5800 tripping mains safety switch.....

    Quote Originally Posted by 113C383439550 link=1222234924/8#8 date=1222694856
    Quote Originally Posted by AngerManagement link=1222234924/0#7 date=1222682736
    Regardless of Electrician or Restricted... *The testing method is the same... and covered by AS3760 which is also mandated by LAW for all states of Australia.
    True AM.....

    My concern is directed more to the adequate understanding of the regs you referred to and in my experience, this has been more thoroughly understood and applied by fully licensed and qualified people. Even though the standards intended to regulate these and all other matters related to electrical installations and equipment in Australia is a National Standard, the same can not be said for the individual State controls and regs that allow people to possess "restricted" licenses. There is significant variation from State to State but much more convergence where fully licensed persons are concerned.

    Mal.
    True but not true... * *Building work, construction etc.. *Electrical Fitters etc ... No problem... * Fine precision electronic work... *Mostly Level 1 restricted..

    I most cases *(Medical *and Sensitive systems) we do not employ electricians as they have problems understand / grasping some of the issues without lots of re training... *The large majority of all our most experienced people hold either Restricted level 1 or 2 (where HV or *other requirements *are needed - X-Ray etc). *

    QLD, SA and WA have the strictest , while NSW and VIC are interesting and in some cases, if the unit is defined as portable... Then no license required ???

    QLD require you to have a Contractors Electrical license to: SELL, Import, Hire, or provide service to electrical goods or to offer Service people who might perform electrical work (many / most *suppliers do not and nor do they understand the serious implications)... *

    I love it in tenders where they clearly breach the guidelines.. *Appeal the process when their excluded and then find that as part of the appeal process and formal action (being done by them); they tip their hand to the ESO... *Big fines and court action * :o

    Saves me having to report them, as I am required to do under the act... *Wish more of them would appeal... I hate dobbing in most companies..

    Have an industry briefing next month and we have to present the requirements to 100s of suppliers.. *It will be fun *::)

  12. #12
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    Re: HELP! EM5800 tripping mains safety switch.....

    Id prefer to discuss the pros and cons on how to get the best coffee in the cup, to be honest AM...

    Mal.

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    A_M
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    Re: HELP! EM5800 tripping mains safety switch.....

    Quote Originally Posted by 6F42464A472B0 link=1222234924/11#11 date=1233942294
    Id prefer to discuss the pros and cons on how to get the best coffee in the cup, to be honest AM...

    Mal.

    ME too..... Had a BAD Tender day... Sorry for venting in a public place... I should not bring my bad days to the Forum or to Home..


    1: Not able to use my new San M as no space.. And wife is being pushy...
    2: HotTop roaster is all new and having all sorts of roasting issue...



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