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Thread: Breville 800ES Surprise

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    Breville 800ES Surprise

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    I recently won a Breville 800ES from the local petrol station. I have had a Silvia at work for a couple of years and paired with a Rocky grinder, have been real happy with the combo, so of course the 800ES had to go home. I only drink black coffee with no sugar so any taints are easily tasted. Using the same beans and grind from the Rocky, the coffee out of the pressurized baskets on the 800ES looks O.K. apart from the crema looking a little pale, the taste I could only describe as odd - not really bitter but not really coffee either. I checked on availability of non-pressurized baskets and was told 4 weeks. So immediately attacked the baskets with dremel slitting disc, many thanks to other posters in this forum! The first (and subsequent) shots were pretty close in quality to the Silvia - taste not quite as rich but crema seems slightly more robust, I was surprised how good they were and wondered whether the pre-infusion was helping boost the quality? I have tried manually pre-infusing shots on the Silvia but have to say the result is inferior to a normal pull (I reverse temp surf my Silvia shots). In summary I would have to say with a decent grinder and non-pressurized baskets the 800ES is a capable performer as far as producing a decent shot is concerned.

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    Re: Breville 800ES Surprise

    I too have the Breville 800ES. Paired with a Sunbeam EM0480 grinder I find it makes great coffee 8-).I always use freshly roasted beans and with heaps of excellent advice from reading Coffee snobs I now make an excellent coffee with this machine without too much effort.

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    Re: Breville 800ES Surprise

    +1
    after 4 years with CafeRoma, was looking 800ES Vs SB 6910 back in Aug, both machine give a free grinder, most negative comments to SB6910 that were break down within 1-2 years, plus Breville 800ES @$350(with a free BCG450 conical burr grinder) is $200 cheaper than SB6910.
    Thanks CoffeeSnob, with all the knowledges I learned from this site,
    1.cut open the double wall filter.
    2.modified grinder for extra fine grinding.
    3.bought a stainless temper(the temper come with the machine is useless)
    4. ::)Nobody has done this from I read:-- the bottom drip tray get full in 2-3 days, so I drilled a drain hole, connect a plastic tube to sink, not worry flood anymore ;)
    buy fresh bean every fornights, the coffee taste is miles better than older machine, in my wifes word: ;D better than sex ;D
    Very happy with 800ES!!

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    Re: Breville 800ES Surprise

    This is my first post after just buying a Breville 800 to replace my Cafe Roma that I have had a couple of years.

    I found this board after trying to find more info on the machine and how to get the best from it.

    The Cafe Roma I had before the 800, replaced my first machine, an entry level Krupps machine I had got with my flybuys many years ago, which, with a lot of work on my part, produced a nicer espresso with a very nice crema (at least to me and my friends anyway, in a time when not many people had their own machine). After reading the posts here I figure the reason was the single wall filter.

    Anyway, after a week with my new 800, I get the feeling that it is basically exactly the same inside as the Cafe Roma, but with a nicer outside. The filters are identical but the portafilter handle is much heavier. The steam wand (with the frothing gizmo tossed away) does the same job as the Cafe Roma.

    It takes slightly longer to warm up than the Roma and it goes through a purge upon switch on, and does a pre-brew wetting of the grinds.

    The advantages of the 800 over the Cafe Roma (in my hands at least), is a bigger water container which has a backlight so one can see the level which was a problem with the Roma, and a bigger slops tray which is very necessary because of all the purging etc that goes on behind the scenes. These are two nice touches but probably not worth the extra money.

    The spoon/tamper is tricky to use but at least its smooth surface polishes the grinds nicely.

    A big disadvantage are the fancy silver lights around the silver switches set into the silver surrounds which in my very bright kitchen cant be seen if on or off, so already I have gone out leaving the thing switched on all day.

    The level indicator on the slops tray is very difficult to remove for cleaning, held in place by little plastic lugs which I feel will break off if removed too often (a bit like the flimsy lugs on the battery covers of TV remotes)

    All in all I would say that at more than double the price of the Cafe Roma, I am not getting double the value for my money.

    Having said all that however, I have just ordered a single wall filter, and this afternoon I will attack my Breville BCG450 grinder to perform the "Finer Grinder" mod found elsewhere on this board.

    As for the wet puck, as I leave the machine on to get nice and hot and leave the portafilter in place whilst I drink my coffee, I find the puck dries out in no time.

    A word of warning for those looking to take advantage of the free burr grinder offer at present; I had seen the ads for a free burr grinder but when I went to look, *my local electrical shop said the freebie was just an ordinary spinning blade spice type, so I had to shop around.... it would appear that different shops have different grinders as part of their deal.





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    Re: Breville 800ES Surprise

    Gday, Im a newbie.
    Bought one of these machines a few weeks ago.
    Friggin awesome.
    I was told that it would take me a few months to create a good brew.
    Man, I stuffed a couple up on the first night, but ever since, sensational.
    Paid a bit over 200 bucks for this thing from the factory seconds, so I bought the breville grinder as well as slops bucket. What a setup.
    The lovely worked out the milk thing and she does an awesome job. It doesnt worry me though because I have mine "Strong, Black and Bitter".
    This machine is so good, that I am now buying another outfit for my daughter and family for Chrissie.
    High five to Breville.
    By the way, I learnt to drink coffee in Hawaii, and it has been a long trek to get even close to it.
    I have now found the way to good coffee.
    Slurps and Cheers

  6. #6
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    Re: Breville 800ES Surprise

    Welcome to Coffee Snobs Ricko.
    Im glad youre having fun.

    One observation though.....IMO good coffee is not bitter.

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    Re: Breville 800ES Surprise

    Hi all :)

    Ive decided to go with the Breville 800ES, mainly due to the fact that at David Jones they have a deal where you get the 800ES, the Breville BarAroma coffee grinder, a bag of Harris Reserve coffee beans AND a $60 David Jones gift voucher for $449.95! Quite a good deal and in my budget, I get more then what I was originally after.

    Anyway, a question I have is, what is the difference between pressurised and non-pressurised filter baskets? I keep reading about people using non-pressurised baskets but dont really know the differences. What does the 800ES come with? Do I need to get different ones?

    Also, with the BarAroma grinder, does anyone know what setting is best to grind for use in the 800ES?? :)

    thanks all!! :)

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    Re: Breville 800ES Surprise

    Gday mocha.... [smiley=happy.gif]

    If you do a search of the forum re: pressurised, Im sure youll turn up lots of very useful info. Regarding your grinder setting... The grind setting numbers are fairly arbitrary and are really only useful for relative setting adjustments. Basically, when you first kick-off, start with the grinder set a little coarse such that your freshly roasted, high quality coffee feels like Table Salt when rubbed between the fingers. Thats a good starting point.

    Becoming successful at consistently pulling excellent espresso is all about the quality of the beans, getting to know your machine and your technique as a Home Barista; and all this takes some practice. The most difficult aspect to learn is usually associated with dosing the basket and to a lesser extent, tamping consistently level and with the same amount of force each time...+/- 1.0-1.5Kg in the range of 8-13.5Kg. Doesnt really matter where your tamping force lies within this range, so long as you apply it consistently. Using a set of bathroom scales while tamping is an easy way to learn how to become consistent at this.

    One of the best websites around designed to help home baristi become better at what they do, is the Home Barista Website and in particular, this tutorial... http://www.home-barista.com/espresso-guide.html as it covers pretty well every aspect of what you need to learn and is well worth the effort to read.

    All the best mocha and have fun.... :)

    Mal.

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    Re: Breville 800ES Surprise

    Mmmh I just bought this machine. I dont think I see this additional milk frothing attachment that I keep hearing people mention. The packaging does make certain things quite elusive :)

    Wouldnt altering the grind settings on the BCG450 to beyond turkish level make it a little TOO fine? Thought they said it was meant to feel kinda like table salt...

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    Re: Breville 800ES Surprise

    the milk rothing attachment is useless anyway, consider yourself lucky that it was misplaced

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    Re: Breville 800ES Surprise

    I could see myself trying to find a single wall basket fairly soon for this machine... who can sell one that I can fit directly into the machine without the fuss? :) (That should read - with minimal part replacement). I dont really fancy the idea of buying too many parts - the discount wouldve been moot :P

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    Re: Breville 800ES Surprise

    Someone said that the baskets for the Breville BarVista will fit. This machine is a steam toy (no pump) so the baskets are definitely unpressurised.

    Id go to a retailer that sells both machines and doublecheck for the baskets being interchangable (by testing yourself of course, not by asking the staff)

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    Re: Breville 800ES Surprise

    Thanks kaanage - and now the question about the grind size above - why grind beyond turkish settings...?

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    Re: Breville 800ES Surprise

    Have bought the Bar Italia ESP 4/51 1-2 cup non- pressurised basket as a replacement for a Breville BES820 (guessing the same portafilter).
    Perfect fit & works very well
    But the Bar Italia 2-4 cup basket is way too deep to fit into the 820 portafilter
    Does anyone know if the 2-4 cup BarVista baskets fit??

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    Re: Breville 800ES Surprise

    Quote Originally Posted by 5673647B76515459120 link=1225403591/12#12 date=1234442110
    why grind beyond turkish settings...?
    I have no idea. Looking through this thread, I cant any reference to this before your 1st query. Was it in a link somewhere?

    As for myself, I cant imagine ever using a finer grind than turkish.

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    Re: Breville 800ES Surprise

    Kofi_Snob <-- He listed out that he made modifications to his BCG450 for finer grinding. The finest setting on it is Turkish (extra fine).

    Im already pushing the grind a little past the espresso (some suggested I put it back even further - mainly because Im using the Vittoria espresso beans - gasp - from the stupidmarkets :P)

    Yes yes I know. One step at a time though haha :)

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    Re: Breville 800ES Surprise

    Ah OK - you are referring to a setting, not actual grind. This mod may have been suggested because the Turkish setting on this grinder may not actually be fine enough for espresso (let alone Turkish).

    Some have reported that the BCG450 is pretty much a Solis 166/DeLonghi KG100/Starbucks Barista, in a different housing. This design is known for often being not fine enough for espresso at its lowest setting (variation exists due to manufacturing tolerance so some do not require modding but most seem to need it).

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    Re: Breville 800ES Surprise

    Serious?! So! I can pop it straight onto the Christmas setting and itll probably be safe to say it wont clog up the poor filter on the pressurized setting... :) Ill give that a go.

    Im actually furiously going through the last bag of coffee so I can get some fresh beans :P Zero Wastage household haha :)

    By the way, just a bit of bg, Im just living with my parents... this semi-auto is my first machine (up from a plunger) so thats why Im not so picky even after all the bad reviews I read about on here... I did get it at a steal :P

    It does taste better than cafe coffee somehow even if it is stale coffee beans (but grinded just prior) not much burnt tastes like some of the brandname cafes around my area... I must be on the right track. ::)

  19. #19
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    Re: Breville 800ES Surprise

    I just scored one of these at my "local" Target store for $279.88, which is a steal compared to the $399 they were asking at The Good Guys, Domayne, etc. I bought a CG2B grinder to go with it. I plan on reading through some of the many threads here to try to learn how to make an awesome espresso. ;D

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    Re: Breville 800ES Surprise

    I just bought one of these as my first machine and am about to purchase a grinder with the help of all the relevant threads, hopefully decent espresso follows soon.

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    Re: Breville 800ES Surprise

    Quote Originally Posted by 0D0F0308010C0F160512600 link=1225403591/6#6 date=1228792594
    Anyway, a question I have is, what is the difference between pressurised and non-pressurised filter baskets? I keep reading about people using non-pressurised baskets but dont really know the differences. What does the 800ES come with? Do I need to get different ones? *
    Seeing as no one has answered your question directly, I will:

    Taken from: http://www.espressoschool.com.au/?page_id=500#baskets

    Firstly, lets describe a regular coffee filter basket.

    Below is a photo of both what a regular unpressurised and pressurised filter basket may look like from the inside.



    With a regular unpressurised basket, you are able to see through each one of those tiny pin holes in the basket.

    In a pressurised basket, you are unable to see through any of the holes. Instead, if you turn your basket over, you will actually find only 1 hole. In most cases it will usually also be stamped with the words “dual floor” or “dual wall”, meaning it has a fake bottom.



    Pressurised coffee baskets come standard with most domestic branded coffee machines such as Breville, Krups and Sunbeam. Forcing coffee through a single pin hole “pressurised basket” will create a faux or fake crema from already stale pre-ground coffee. This “crema” is essentially aerated and whipped coffee. Creating this fake crema comes at the expense of taste regardless of whether you are using pre-ground or freshly ground coffee! This is why The Espresso School recommends the use of regular unpressurised baskets.

    Sunbeam, Krups and Breville use a standard three lug 51mm diameter portafilter/group handle which can be interchanged between machines. Krups manufactures a non-pressurised basket - model MS0907163, which can be used in most 51 mm portafilter machines.

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    Re: Breville 800ES Surprise

    I have been using my 800ES for about 4 years now and it is still going strong, no issues at all. I changed to the Krups non-pressurised basket about 2 years ago and the improvement was noticable. However, I recently upgraded the grinder to a Mini Mazzer and the improvement was really significant - thankx to all the snobs who reccomend to upgrade the grinder first. The shots are consistenly better, but I can now also notice the variations in grind setting, dosing, tamping etc so hopefully my skills will also improve.

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    Re: Breville 800ES Surprise

    My partner brought me one for our anaveresery (god i wish i could spell..) I have found it to be very reliable and produces a coffee that is very similar everytime, i have had it for a few years now and my sister when she visits can always make a better coffee than me with it even tho she has only used it a handful of times.. she also worked in a bar for a few years while training to be a teacher and had the chance to have some training by the bars barista. I havent changed anything anything on it yet but it does go to show that know what you are doing also makes a difference... so all i need to do now is get her to stop by on her way to work to make me a coffee.... dont think that is going to work but might have to get some lessons from her next time she is about after reading alot of the posts here.
    I have modded my grinder and that has made a huge difference as opposed to the normal preground coffee, smells fresher and has a nicer taste.

    It is an interesting art and one worth studying.

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    Re: Breville 800ES Surprise

    Gday guys,

    This is my first post on CS - I am wondering if the Breville 800 is capable of pulling shots which look like and have so much crema ike this (refer to pics on this post - http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1156248228/14#14)

    Plse kindly advise and any feedback is greatly appreciated.

  25. #25
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    Re: Breville 800ES Surprise

    Quote Originally Posted by 5B4C59565F380 link=1225403591/23#23 date=1251723363
    This is my first post on CS
    2nd post by my reckoning.

    To get shots like those youve pointed too youll need non-pressurised baskets and fresh beans plus a good grinder.


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    Re: Breville 800ES Surprise

    Point noted -> 3rd post now.

    Yes to all the above points. Beans (Campos superior roasted last week) with non-pressurised baskets and a k3 touch.

    My Crema is no way near as thick and lucious and my pour times + volumne are on par (60ml for a double in 30 secs) hence I was wondering if the machine has inherent limitations or is it something I need to continue to work on....

    Also, being a noob, does a particular type of bean create more crema? If so -> any recommendations to try?

    Cheers!

  27. #27
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    Re: Breville 800ES Surprise

    Yes some beans produce more crema.
    Its been a while since I tried the Campos; cant remember re the crema; besides which I drink flat whites.

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    Re: Breville 800ES Surprise

    this majic 30 second pour-time...is that from when you hit the button or when the coffee starts pouring into the cup?...eitherway I know mine pours heaps fast and my consistency of producing delicious coffees is far from perfect...just how fine and firm can I grind and tamp?

  29. #29
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    Re: Breville 800ES Surprise

    Quote Originally Posted by 555057554940250 link=1225403591/27#27 date=1251776931
    just how fine
    Rule of thumb - coffee should run like honey; too coarse and its thin, watery, and pour fast; too fine and youll choke the machine or find an oily residue in the basket once youve knocked out the puck.

    Tamping is said to be ideal at around 15kg, and thats probably a good starting point, though its another variable you can play around with.

    Do you have a decent tamper?


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    Re: Breville 800ES Surprise

    Re: Pour time -> from my reading/research, it is from when one turns the button.

    Flow rate is okay although not like honey per se and I have tried to play with it and can get it to pour a ristretto (30ml from a double in 30secs) plus have grounded + tamped to a point where the machine is choked (worked back from there).

    Shot does taste fairly good although it is definitely not as thick and rick looking with so much crema hence my query and quest! (latte art not possible)

    Puck is solid, appears even and does not show any effect of channeling. *

    Yes I had a deluxe pullman made to fit un-pressurized 53mm basket purchased from Greg and have practised tamping pressure.

    Really appreciate all the feedback.

    Cheers guys *


  31. #31
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    Re: Breville 800ES Surprise

    Quote Originally Posted by 7364717E77100 link=1225403591/29#29 date=1251784210
    have grounded + tamped to a point where the machine is choked (worked back from there).
    Hi again "ctang"...

    Im not familiar with your particular machine but if it doesnt have a 3-Way Valve to exhaust pressure from the Group at the completion of a shot, and an Over Pressure Valve(OPV) to limit the Brew Water Pressure then the method youre employing is actually the reverse of what you should have done.

    Much better and much more likely to arrive at the correct grind and dose for your machine, if you start with a grind setting that produces a quick pour initially. Then tighten up the grind setting a little at a time until youre achieving pours that fall within the so-called Golden Rule of 30/60ml in 25-30 seconds. Coming from a grind size that is too fine will result in pours from excessive pressure and possibly under-dosing as well.

    Give it a go and see if it makes a difference..... :)

    Cheers,
    Mal.

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    Re: Breville 800ES Surprise

    I got a stainless steel tamper that fits my basket within 1mm and I practised the 15kg pressure on the scales (looked really silly doing that!...I had a laugh...)...

    I read that a grind somewhere between table salt and flour should be good...at the moment I am up the salty end of that scale or an 11-12 on my Sunbeam...was a little concerned that I could possibly end up with nowhere to go if I had to keep grinding finer.

    ...thanks for the pointers.

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    Re: Breville 800ES Surprise

    This machine does seem to "pour" fast. Will keep at it and try different beans and adjust other variables etc.

    Mal -> choking the machine only happened once when I adjusted my grinder settings too finely.

    A ristretto pull intermittenly drips as opposed to the honey like flow so more fine tuning and practise required.

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    Re: Breville 800ES Surprise

    Hi All,
    I also just purchased the 800es and bar aroma grinder combo. happy so far!! :) also got the esp4/51 baskets today only pulled one shot but big improvement!! puck is dry..no more slops yay!!
    couple of qus has anyone removed the black plastic bit at the bottom of GH?? any advantage/disadvantage in doing this? also anyone extended the steam wand? its a tad bit short for me.

    Cheers

    Barra

  35. #35
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    Re: Breville 800ES Surprise

    BTW--When we say the pour is like honey, that refers to the mouse-tail shape of the pour, its not a really thick viscous fluid like real honey. I doubt that real honey off a spoon would pour anything close to 60 ml in 30 sec.

    Greg

  36. #36
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    Re: Breville 800ES Surprise

    Quote Originally Posted by 487D6A6858607D626E636B0F0 link=1225403591/34#34 date=1251793507
    BTW--When we say the pour is like honey, that refers to the mouse-tail shape of the pour, its not a really thick viscous fluid like real honey. I doubt that real honey off a spoon would pour anything close to 60 ml in 30 sec.
    Probably would if it was heated to 93-94C Greg ;)

    Mal.

  37. #37
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    Re: Breville 800ES Surprise

    Quote Originally Posted by 4156434C45220 link=1225403591/32#32 date=1251789432
    This machine does seem to "pour" fast. *Will keep at it and try different beans and adjust other variables etc.

    Mal -> choking the machine only happened once when I adjusted my grinder settings too finely.

    A ristretto pull intermittenly drips as opposed to the honey like flow so more fine tuning and practise required.
    Thats not really what a Ristretto shot should be like mate...

    You are basically looking for approx. half the volume flow of a normal shot which equates to a cross-section about 0.75 that of a normal full flow shot; not half the cross-section as most people believe....

    Mal.

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    Re: Breville 800ES Surprise

    Guys,

    Did some tinkering tonight and found out that the direct brew water temp of my brand new machine is only around 70 degrees!!! Did try everthing to temp surf the machine and that is the best I could do!!! Thermometer was tested and no issues noted. *Going to contact Breville in the morning and send my machine for a check up. Considering ideal temp is around 90 plus degrees, that is just not good enough!!! Pretty dissapointed considering decent money was paid. Will let you know the outcome.

  39. #39
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    Re: Breville 800ES Surprise

    Quote Originally Posted by 2D3A2F20294E0 link=1225403591/37#37 date=1251981599
    Guys,

    Did some tinkering tonight and found out that the direct brew water temp of my brand new machine is only around 70 degrees!!! Did try everthing to temp surf the machine and that is the best I could do!!! Thermometer was tested and no issues noted. *Going to contact Breville in the morning and send my machine for a check up. Considering ideal temp is around 90 plus degrees, that is just not good enough!!! Pretty dissapointed considering decent money was paid. Will let you know the outcome.
    So where and how did you measure it ?

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    Re: Breville 800ES Surprise

    Held a warmed cup directly under the brew head and activated the machine after let letting it warm up for a significant amount of time. Pulled just normal hot water directly and measured it with a medical grade digital thermometer. Did this several times and the water did not get warmer.

    Also tried activitating steam mode and pulling just hot water directly immediately after with no real effect. It was marginally warmer at 75 degrees max.

    Sound like a fairly accurate way to measure direct water temp? Really, one could not expect water to cool by 30 degrees in like 5 secs or so. Cup is prewarmed in boiling water.

    Let me know if I should be testing it in another way.



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