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Thread: Breville Ikon (BES400) Summary

  1. #1
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    Breville Ikon (BES400) Summary

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    I have spent may hours reading this site an many others regarding my new Breville Ikon BES400 Espresso Machine and Breville BarAroma Coffee Grinder package I recently picked up from Target for the excellent deal of just $299 for the lot. I found that while all the information is out there no one has summarised it into one place so I thought Id give it a go....

    For the record I am not a coffee snob, nor in fact a coffee drinker! I am dating a coffee snob and am a engineer whos brain is wired to enjoy the technical aspects of this sort of thing. I have owned an older Krupps unit that was never hot enough so my coffee drinking friends never wanted a coffee. So time to upgrade. I bought the Ikon in defiance of Choice magazines average review for taste hoping that the good folk here were correct in that a change of filter baskets would mean it would produce a good brew. The fact it looks great (in my opinion) also played into it too! The grinder came with it so I could get the Sunbeam unit people seem to prefer. Speaking to a friend who has this unit (Sunbeam EMO450 or EMO480) it seems while it is a good unit is can create a mess (due to its external shute) and the "fill direct into the filter holder option" is less useful that it appears as you need to tamp mid way through to be able to hold enough grinds without over flowing. (Choice have the, pretty much equal billing.)

    When I first tried to make a coffee using the supplied double cup pressurised filter basket I found the machine pumped as expected then "stalled" with the pump clearly straining. I released the pressure by opening the steam valve and thinking I have tamped too hard or filled to high tried again with the same result. (FYI: I was using pre-ground supermarket Lavazza coffee for this trial). I then tried the same thing with the single cup filter and all was well. I called Breville who mailed me out a new dual cup filter and that worked fine. (Breville service was very good). I have since found reviews of people in the US with the same fault so it seems Breville may have a quality control issue with their double cup filter baskets!

    My next move was to purchase an non-pressurised filter basket. I have read entries of plenty of people recommending the Krupps units (part #0907163 for the basket, #620342 for the seal) with the draw back being they are a slightly smaller diameter and thus do not hold tightly in the filter holder. The other option is the filters from the Breville Bar Italia (ESP4). I purchased one of these from my local Breville factory outlet/service centre here in Melbourne. The Breville web site will tell you your nearest service agent if you need to track one down. I believe the part number is the ESP4/51 as mentioned elsewhere on Coffee Snobs. I have also read of complaints that the holes in the these filters are larger and this lets coffee grounds pass through. This is not quite true. There are in fact two version of the filter which look similar. I suspect the other version is from the older ESP2 machine. This filter (ESP2/41, I believe) is slightly deeper (which means it works better with the eject function of the filter holder for which the ESP4/51 is not really compatible) but is more easy to distinguish by the fact it has a dull inner surface finish compared to the bright finish of the ESP4/51. I would suggest that if you are purchasing one of these you ensure it is the one from the ESP4 like I did.

    The next thing is the tamper. The supplied tamper is useless for generating form of pressure. Unless you have the funds for a Pulman (and even if you do how can you spend more than a third of the price of the costs of a machine and grinder on a simple tamper anyway?) I have found that the InCasa 52mm Stainless Steel tamper (from "The Coffee Company" in Balaclava, Melbourne - they sell online too) fits just about perfectly and works a treat. I grabbed a nice tamper mat from them too!

    So - are the "snobs" happy? Yes! Still learning how to pull the perfect brew but I am certainly happy with the setup (especially for the price). Oh: I have included a photo of my new set up too!

    Please let me know if I missed anything....


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    Re: Breville Ikon (BES400) Summary

    Thanks for this info, particularly the part nos for the Breville non pressurised baskets.

    I am watching an auction on trademe at the moment for a factory 2nd at $130, just cant bring myself to do the buy now.

    Already have the 6910 at home and am very happy with it, but the old Melitta machine we have at the shop for our mid-morning fix just isnt cutting the mustard anymore.

    Do you froth milk with the sleeve on the milk wand or have you taken it off. Can you possibly show a pic of the seam arm without the "froth enhancer" (this is one of the things I dislike about the melitta at the shop, milk almost always resebles a frothy milk shake)

    Sen

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    22a
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    Re: Breville Ikon (BES400) Summary

    Steam arm without froth enhancer. Cant see too well but it is a single hole in the middle of the tip, which is removable (and therefore I assume swappable).



    I ditched the froth enhancer pretty quick. It doesnt really help at all. Steam wand does fine by itself, although Im not a big fan of milk drinks so it doesnt get a great workout with me. Also, it used to be much shinier (machine is nearly 2 years old).

    And just because I had the camera out and I like showing off my shots at the moment I pulled a quick single ...


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    Re: Breville Ikon (BES400) Summary

    wow, now thats some crema. too fresh beans?
    thanks for the photos too

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    22a
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    Re: Breville Ikon (BES400) Summary

    Indian High Grown Plantation 795 about 10 days post roast. I took the photo pretty quick so it was still settling a bit, but since I upgraded to the Mazzer Ive been getting fantastic amounts of crema. The issue of whether the Ikon is a capable machine (when paired with a decent grinder) has well and truly been laid to rest.

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    Re: Breville Ikon (BES400) Summary

    Hi - I called Breville Australia & they mentioned that the ESP4 either has a 1-2 cup filter basket or a 2-4 cup filter basket. They lady I spoke to didnt know the /51 part#. Are you able to confirm which is the filter basket you are using (1-2 or the 2-4)?

    Many thanks.



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    Re: Breville Ikon (BES400) Summary

    Quote Originally Posted by jpwel link=1229668955/0#5 date=1231203754
    Hi - I called Breville Australia & they mentioned that the ESP4 either has a 1-2 cup filter basket or a 2-4 cup filter basket. They lady I spoke to didnt know the /51 part#. Are you able to confirm which is the filter basket you are using (1-2 or the 2-4)?

    Many thanks.

    A warning to anyone who wants to purchase a fitted tamper (or even close to a fitted tamper)...

    The ESP4 baskets.... both the 1-2 and the 2-4 taper a lot from the top to the bottom and have the graduation numbers and levels stamped inwards on the wall of the basket.....

    Only a very loose tamper will go into these baskets..... Ive tried to make "fitted" Pullman tampers for these..... and at best they can be made for one level and just one basket (the baskets also vary considerably in size)..... so a VERY poor candidate for a fitted tamper!

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    Re: Breville Ikon (BES400) Summary

    Quote Originally Posted by Astranomical link=1229668955/0#0 date=1229668948
    The other option is the filters from the Breville Bar Italia (ESP4).
    Does anyone know if this BES400 has the same portafilter / baskets as the BES820? Your pf looks the same heavy thing that mine is, but pictures wont tell for sure. It would make sense to me if Breville used the same one, but I just dont know.

    many thanks,
    Iain.

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    Re: Breville Ikon (BES400) Summary

    jpwel: You need the 1-2 cup filter as the 3-4 is too tall for the handle.

    iaindb: I am not certain but I believe they are the same. You could check next time you are in Myer or where ever else stocks both. Interestingly the Breville Bar Italia filter baskets also fit my girlfriends Sunbeam EM4800C so it seems that the size is fairly common.

    JavaB is correct ragarding the slight taper of the Bar Italia filter baskets. I do not find this a problem as all coffees I have made so far are doubles. I suspect (although I havent tried it) that a 51mm would work at the 1cup filling mark. This would mean you would need two tampers but it is still much less than the cost of the Pullman!

    Finally, Senator: I am surprised that the bright finish on the steam arm is now matte. I find I have to wipe (rub!) the arm down after each use to keep it shiney or else its gets a fine layer of milk stuck on it. Have you tried cleaning it with a stainless stell cleaner (or bi-carb)? I would say it should come up all shiney again!

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    Re: Breville Ikon (BES400) Summary

    all steam arms should be cleaned after each use. not quite sure where you got your question from, I just wanted to see a steam arm without the froth enhancer to make sure it should work without one. Hate the frother on the Melitta at the shop with avengence, but the Ikon one looks like it should do the business quite well

    Sen

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    Re: Breville Ikon (BES400) Summary

    Quote Originally Posted by Senator link=1229668955/0#9 date=1231294967
    all steam arms should be cleaned after each use. not quite sure where you got your question from,
    I think that should have been aimed at 22a, from his picture and quote:

    Quote Originally Posted by 22a link=1229668955/0#2 date=1229721475
    Also, it used to be much shinier (machine is nearly 2 years old).
    Quote Originally Posted by Senator link=1229668955/0#9 date=1231294967
    I just wanted to see a steam arm without the froth enhancer to make sure it should work without one. Hate the frother on the Melitta at the shop with avengence, but the Ikon one looks like it should do the business quite well

    Sen
    The Ikon steam arm looks identical to my BES820. I was a bit disappointed that it is so short, as the froth enhancer makes it look long in the ad.

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    Re: Breville Ikon (BES400) Summary

    Grrrrrrr... bought my icon today from the breville outlet. Was assured it was ex-demo, not reconditioned. However, there is coffee in the machine before I have even used it to make coffee!!!!! PLus I bought the ESP4 basket but they gave me the 4 cup one -Doh!!! So I will be heading back there tomorrow to rectify. Like I need this with a 7 week old baby (not to mention the other 2 & school holidays!) - what I need is some decent coffee!!!
    But looking forward to trying it out when I eventually get it together!

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    22a
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    Re: Breville Ikon (BES400) Summary

    Oh, you guys are right, my steam arm IS ugly *:(

    Its clean though. Just seems to have lost its shine over the years.

    Anyway, I was browsing around yesterday and stumbled on a review of the Ikon espresso machine. The reviewer wasnt too impressed, and was especially critical of the fact that the cup warmer took so long to heat up.

    Ummm... the Ikon doesnt have a cup warmer. *

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    Re: Breville Ikon (BES400) Summary

    I really think that it is a big miss from Breville not including at least 1 non pressurised basket with the machine.

    I received 1 single and 2 doubles with mine, all of them pressurised. Why not package this up with one of their burr grinders (as per some examples on this board at circa $299) and non pressurised filter and hey presto, a bargain "true" coffee machine.

    As for the "cup warmer", I had a laugh. I find the top of the machine is hot enough to warm the cups given it seems to be on top of the boiler(?).

    Might have to visit the local hardware shop to see if I can get a steel cutting attachment for the cordless drill. The hacksaw didnt seem to make much impact yesterday >:(

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    Re: Breville Ikon (BES400) Summary

    I now have the correct basket (the roma 1-2 cup one) $9 from the breville outlet... cant you get hold of one in cc?

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    Re: Breville Ikon (BES400) Summary

    no, service agent didnt have them in stock, had to order down. If Breville NZ dont have them, then its a 4 week+ wait :(

    The pressurised baskets really are the weakest part with this machine

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    Re: Breville Ikon (BES400) Summary

    Hi all,

    Not sure where the topic as been moved to but there a disussion going on about the adjusting the temperature to make the water hotter. I found some unwanted guesting crawling in my Ikon so I though this would be a good excuse to have a closer look on the inner workings of the machine, plus give it a good clean.

    Was able to locate and have a closer look at the Brains of the Ikon and was unhappy to find there is no adjustment point on the board to adjust the temperature. But there is plenty of room to add in some components to make the adjustment possible. The Journey Continues....

    Cheers,

    Kenny M

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    Re: Breville Ikon (BES400) Summary

    Can you get a Krups basket?I have the double Krups basket and it fits perfectly. I dont know why some people say its loose in the portafilter.

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    Re: Breville Ikon (BES400) Summary

    Sorry, last message was meant for Senator.

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    Re: Breville Ikon (BES400) Summary

    Hi, I also bought the Breville Ikon from Target after reading coffee snobs. Need some help please. When I go to steam the milk the wand has no resistance, it just hits the side of the jug.. Is this normal..? Thanks for the advise on the Tamper etc.. I have also had issues with the double cup pressurised filter basket and the machine stalling, however I thought it was user error with the grind or too much pressure with the tampering..? With the Breville coffee grinder what setting do you recommend you have the grind at..?

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    Re: Breville Ikon (BES400) Summary

    Hi Wiggo

    It sounds as if the wand needs tightening up - it should have some resistance. I dont know about the Breville grinder as I have a Rocky. Can you order in the Krups double unpressurised basket #0907163? I have it and it fits really well. I got it from a Sparkys shop in Toowong, Brisbane.

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    Re: Breville Ikon (BES400) Summary

    The unpressurised 1-2 cup basket from the breville Bar Italia ESP4 also works a treat with the Ikon, that is what I have been using for the past year.

    KennyM



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    Re: Breville Ikon (BES400) Summary

    Hi wiggo
    Quote Originally Posted by 203E303038570 link=1229668955/19#19 date=1232795011
    ... I have also had issues with the double cup pressurised filter basket and the machine stalling, however I thought it was user error with the grind or too much pressure with the tampering..? *With the Breville coffee grinder what setting do you recommend you have the grind at..? *
    Are you talking about the Breville conical bur grinder? *I have this grinder, and I use it at the finest setting it has (called Turkish, but not really) with my BES820.

    Ive also tampered with extreme pressure, and not much at all; and Ive never had the machine stall. *I think the BES400 has the same internals as mine...

    But note: are you sure its stalling? *Mine pre-wets the grind for a few seconds before actually exracting - is that whats happening?

    Also check the single bottom hole in the dual wall basket, or try another basket - it could be faulty.

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    Re: Breville Ikon (BES400) Summary

    Quote Originally Posted by 39396A0B0 link=1229668955/2#2 date=1229721475
    Steam arm without froth enhancer. Cant see too well but it is a single hole in the middle of the tip, which is removable (and therefore I assume swappable).
    Thats strange, mine has two holes in it.

    A couple of things I do with my Ikon, not sure if they will help.

    I am still using the pressurized baskets (tried getting the unpressurized but gave up after the cheapest price I got was $20 from my local Breville service centre), and I run the hot water through the filter before adding the coffee. Helps to run out the water left in the basket and heat it up.

    I also keep the coffee in the group head while I use the steam function. I find that the process of steaming the milk dries out the coffee in the basket and makes it bit cleaner when you take it off. Less likely to end up with wet coffee muck dripping over the tray.

    Mine has served me well, 6 months so far, making 1 cup a day and it has not skipped a beat.

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    jls
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    Re: Breville Ikon (BES400) Summary

    This Ikon truly contains a powerhouse of potential! I recently purchased one for the home, and I can almost attest to all that youve been saying. The only part is Im still stuck with the pressurized baskets, and not one retailer here in the US markets the ESP4!

    I worked as a barista formally for nearly two years, working on dual(2) two-group la marzocco machines, and a high expectation for every drink that comes out. I cant live with these pressurized filters on the Ikon anymore!

    Not trying to hijack this excellent thread, but would one of you be willing to track a Breville ESP4 non-pressurized filter down for me and ship it to the US? PM me or post--

    Dear Mr. Shaw,

    Unfortunately, Breville USA does not sell any machines that use a non pressurized filter. Unfortunately we cannot help with your request.

    Regards,

    Breville Consumer Services
    Keep the coffee flowin!
    -Jonathan S

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    Re: Breville Ikon (BES400) Summary

    Someone might be prepared to list one on eBay for you (would probably be the easiest in terms of arranging payment, etc.). Ill see if anyone else jumps first - I could post you one but I have to travel out of my way to pick it up.

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    jls
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    Re: Breville Ikon (BES400) Summary

    Thanks for the bump Mr. Poppy! Im willing to go out of my way a bit to cover costs for whoever can do this.

    Paypal is also an option, if you dont want to go through the ebay listing, etc.

    Bump again,
    -Jonathan :D

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    Re: Breville Ikon (BES400) Summary

    What about the Krups part that has sbeen mentioned, I would have thought Krups were avail in the ol US of A?

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    Re: Breville Ikon (BES400) Summary

    Go to krups.com

    Choose "USA" and go to "Parts and Accessories" then "Find service centers near you"


  30. #30
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    Re: Breville Ikon (BES400) Summary

    Quote Originally Posted by 5B6D66697C677A080 link=1229668955/27#27 date=1241057157
    What about the Krups part that has sbeen mentioned, I would have thought Krups were avail in the ol US of A?

    Yes indeed! Ive found that, and already have one on the way. However, I wanted to compare the results from the krups vs. the breville non-pres. baskets. Im confident enough in my consistency to feel comfortable doing some kind of a comparison.

    Its just that...no one seems to be able to source it from the US. Need a hand from overseas. I have found a local listing on ebay in australia for a used breville bar italia ($25), which includes the basket, but its a local listing.

    -Jonathan

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    Re: Breville Ikon (BES400) Summary

    [split] [link=http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1241519648/0#0][splithere][/link][splithere_end]

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    Re: Breville Ikon (BES400) Summary

    Any tips for a newbie?

    I am still waiting for the non presuriesed basket to arrive, but have been fiddling with it this morning anyway. picked up some fresh beans yesterday.

    the coffee i am getting is bitter though and i think i am pulling about 100ml of coffee in 30 seconds. should i grind a bit finer?

    Edit-

    Tried again at a little finer (although my EM0450 isa already at just below 5, with 1 being the finest) but i tamped a bit harder that time (all i have is the sh!t breville tamper atm, waiting for the proper basket to arrive) and it is tasting a bit better now. how much liquid is in an espresso shot? do i need to go finer or is more a fact of the pressure i am using tamping?

    the beans were also roasted yesterday, does that make a difference?

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    Re: Breville Ikon (BES400) Summary

    Hi


    I have a friend that runs a cafe - he says that to get best results he usually doesnt start using his beans till there about 7 - 10 days after roasting.

    Apparently the crema can be quite fizzy when used soon after roasting.


    Hope this sheds some light ...

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    Re: Breville Ikon (BES400) Summary

    Quote Originally Posted by 362A36362A2929450 link=1229668955/32#32 date=1241828777
    Apparently the crema can be quite fizzy when used soon after roasting.
    True but not all beans behave the same.

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    Re: Breville Ikon (BES400) Summary

    Hey Guys,

    first of all thank you very much to the OP, some nice investigative work :-)

    Just grabbed one of these package deals from target for $299.
    Ordered a better taper already and will track down a n/p filter basket tomorrow.

    A question for those using a n/p filter basket, are you holding down the "coffee" button and bypassing the "pre-brew" stage at all?

    Cheers Rob.

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    Re: Breville Ikon (BES400) Summary

    Hey Guys,

    I picked up a n/p filter basket and gave it a spin not expecting much of a differance but was plesently suprised, these beans were pretty fresh only roasted on the weekend by a mate.

    Im very happy with this coffee machine and for the price who wouldnt be!

    Rob.


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    Re: Breville Ikon (BES400) Summary

    Hi Rob,

    Great you are having fun and the Ikon definitely seems like a very good buy.

    For some reason the crema in the photo is very light though. Or is that due to the flash of the camera?

    Cheers

    Daniel

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    Re: Breville Ikon (BES400) Summary

    I just rang Breville Customer Service (as my local service centre directed me to them) to try and source an unpressurised basket for my Breville Ikon using the part number suggested on this site, ESP4/51. The call taker stated it is definately the 1-2 cup basket for the bar Italia but stated it is also definatley a dual wall pressurised basket and that they do not sell any unpressurised baskets at this level. So now Im confused. I have Breville stating ESP4/51 is a pressurised dual wall basket while many forums are stating it is unpressurised. Can anyone please confirm?

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    Re: Breville Ikon (BES400) Summary

    Yes, the ESP4/51 definately is unpressurised. I have one and it works well. :)

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    Re: Breville Ikon (BES400) Summary

    Well thanks to this site *;) and my subtle comments here and there,
    my wife suprised me with an Ikon on sunday *:D although she too loves her morning coffee so i dont think her arm was unduly twisted from the purchase!,will now attempt to get the ESP4/51 basket and an incasa tamper.
    i already have a sunbeam emo480(another gift from the wife)...but after my first few uses it seems to me to grind the same on all settings!,has anyone else had this happen with this grinder? i will be calling customer service very shortly...
    anyway glad this site is here and full of useful info.

    cheers FTB

  41. #41
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    Re: Breville Ikon (BES400) Summary

    Do a CS site search for 0480 problems and how to rectify.

    P.S. The wife sounds like a keeper.

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    Re: Breville Ikon (BES400) Summary

    I finally got my BES400 and BCG450 yesterday, and with an ESP4/51 basket and an Incasa tamper it is making fantastic coffee. *My first attempt had an overdose that resulted in a 10 second pull, but the second attempt, with a lesser dose gave me a great 25 second pull.

    Now to get some green beans and roast them myself......

    cheers,

    Matt

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    Re: Breville Ikon (BES400) Summary

    Great stuff Matt.... [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

    Onward and upward now, eh?

    Mal.

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    Re: Breville Ikon (BES400) Summary

    After looking at the posts about Breville Ikon machine, I finally set my mind and went to Target to look for the BES400 and BCG450 combo. However, I could only find the BES400 for AUD399 at the two Target I have been to. Can anyone shed me some light if the package is still available in any of the Target in Sydney area? ;)

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    Re: Breville Ikon (BES400) Summary

    After doing some more reading on this website, I realised the package is available at Target due the pre-xmas sale and the mothers day sale. Maybe I should wait for fathers day then?

    BTW, the best price I can find online for the BES400 is AUD239 plus $28 freight. Is this a good deal? Thanks! ;)

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    Re: Breville Ikon (BES400) Summary

    I just bought an Ikon yesterday. *It is a refurbished model and it was obvious from the coffee grinds in the basket that it was previously used. *I am not sure if the previous user had modified the pressurized baskets as the hole at the bottom is considerably larger (about 1 mm) than the pin hole that comes in the new Cafe Roma models. * Can someone post a picture of the bottom of their filter basket for me?
    (I know most people here are getting unpressurized baskets though)

    Also when frothing milk, the frothing button starts to flash about 5 seconds after the I start. *Does it maintain sufficient heat to froth well? *I am new to this.

    Thanks!

  47. #47
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    6

    Re: Breville Ikon (BES400) Summary

    Heyz every1, Ive also just gotten a 2nd hand Ikon, and have the ESP4 on the way.

    For spoke, 1mm seems huge, the hole at the borrom of mine is about the size of the fullstop on a computer keyboard...

    I have a question about the frother leaking wen pulling a shot, does it stop leaking when using non-pressuriesed baskets? ive read a couple people mentioning this happening so im not that worried, unless its a seal problem?

    For those that are starting out, me included, the chart below shows a great method for geting nice shots even when u over or under extract, so that ur coffee is not being wasted trying to get the 20-30 second 30ml/60ml shot



    more explanation here:
    http://www.home-barista.com/espresso-guide-good-extractions.html

  48. #48
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    6

    Re: Breville Ikon (BES400) Summary

    Another quick question, where can i get a naked group handle for the ikon? are they custom made or does any know where to buy one that fits? thanks

  49. #49
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    78

    Re: Breville Ikon (BES400) Summary

    I am in the process of acquiring one from a member on here who has upgraded to a fancier machine with more bling [smiley=thumbsup.gif]
    ...keep an eye out in the for-sale section &/or if you can source another handle you may be handy-capable or have a friend who is handy and can slice off the bottom of the handle and the basket too or get the Krups or Breville non-pressurised basket using the parts numbers listed earlier in this thread.

  50. #50
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    6

    Re: Breville Ikon (BES400) Summary

    Hi purple, thanks for your reply, so you mean get another group handle and get the bottom cut off it? or are you talking about cutting the dualwall filter?

    Ive ordered the breville ESP4 unpressurised basket ;)



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