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Thread: Filter Baskets

  1. #1
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    Filter Baskets

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Hi
    Can some ne explain the differnce between pressureised and unpressureised filter baskets? Seems from what I am reading that pressured baskets should be tossed and replaced with unpresurised baskets, am I right in assuming this?

    Robert

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    TC
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    Re: Filter Baskets

    Quote Originally Posted by 0835383F282E195A0 link=1234064740/0#0 date=1234064740
    Hi
    Can some ne explain the differnce between pressureised and unpressureised filter baskets? Seems from what I am reading that pressured baskets should be tossed and replaced with unpresurised baskets, am I right in assuming this?

    Robert
    Hi Robert. If you use the search function ^^^^^^^^ on the term pressurised basket, you will get a whole heap of hits. Happy browsing ;)

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    Re: Filter Baskets

    Thanks

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    Re: Filter Baskets

    Robert,

    Espresso is extracted when hot water under pressure is applied to the compressed puck..... that forces out the coffee oils, carbon dioxide.... and other flavour components....

    Now to get that pressure you can either have the correct grind and tamp.... and that will extract the above naturally..... or use a basket with a small pinhole in the bottom.... which limits the amount of liquid which can pass.... and generate the back pressure (basically "pressure cooking" the puck....) and that is a pressurised basket.

    Also naturally extracted coffee oils and carbon dioxide produce the crema..... in a pressurised system the oils, carbon dioxide and mainly air as the espresso passes through the tiny hole produce false crema... lighter in colour and doesnt taste as good....

    So why are pressurised baskets produced? They dont rely on the user knowing how to grind and tamp correctly..... they can produce crema from stale beans.... even from tanbark!!! as it is false.... liquid and air "frothed up"..... so they enable someone with no skills to go buy year old supermarket coffee grounds (in a brick) and produce something resembling coffee!

    However, as long as you are prepared to use fresh beans, which you freshly grind before each extraction, the correct size of grind and correct tamp.... the results will be just so much better....

    A lot of people dont care that much for great... or even good coffee... and for them pressurised baskets are a lifesaver.... and the way to go!

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    Re: Filter Baskets

    Thanks for clearing that up then. So have you any idea what replacement basket will fit a Sunbeam E 3800

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    Re: Filter Baskets

    I personly am thinking of getting a 9610 machine. But they seem to have a lot of breakdowns and the milk has only got 4 barr pressure [not enough]. :-?

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    A_M
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    Re: Filter Baskets

    Quote Originally Posted by 5A4A4E5A1B0 link=1234064740/5#5 date=1234186610
    I personly am thinking of getting a 9610 machine. But they seem to have a lot of breakdowns and the milk has only got 4 barr pressure [not enough]. :-?
    1: Never heard of a 9610 ? But there is an EM6910

    2: Remember that like most places... You only hear when there are problems... Most people use and never have problems and when they do they go searching and posting... Thus any stats and satistics as to reliability has to be carefully reviewed and assessed.

    I have 3, have sold on 2 and KM has one... I have had a small problem with some chrome (not an issue, but as manufacturing fault, I got it replaced). The youngest is 8 mths old and two are of the first batch of 6910 to be produced.

    So of 6 units with two being used for 10 - 20 double shots a day and one having at least 6 diferent people use... They have been reliable for me..

    The one at work is up for a collar... But that is understandable, due to miss use.

    3: Do not have a problem with Steam and not sure where you got the 4 Bar from .. There is a Steam OPV which is set to aprox 4.8 Bar which = 68.9 psi and it works well. Could be better, but does teh job

    This disscussion needs to get back on track..

    The EM6910 also comes with two types of baskets to allow fresh beans or the crappy supermarket types to be used. Thus catering for all user types.


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    Tassiebean Phil_Jones's Avatar
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    Re: Filter Baskets

    Thought Id add this here rather than starting a new thread. My Krups #0907163 unpressurised basket arrived a couple of days ago (about 2 weeks by phone order from krups notional spare parts office). I thought Id post a description and photo for those that are curious, then ask some questions.

    The first photo is the default Sunbeam consumer grade double cup pressurised basket (52mm diameter) on the left, and the Krups one on the right (as often touted here as being a good non-pressurised replacement).

    The second is a close up of the holes in each (same scale).

    A few of things to note. First, the sunbeam has a raised ridge around the top sealing edge, whereas the krups was flat. It might just be me, or something else, but I noticed I had to push the group handle harder to the right to stop the krups one blasting out at the seal. No big deal but something to be aware of.

    Secondly, I noticed straight away that the holes are bigger in the krups one. With my grind, I notice coffee grings in the cup after drinking it. No big deal either, but the holes certainly look bigger than they need to be.

    Thirdly, and most importantly, I am now getting a much longer pour. Those first few reluctant drops look wonderful. Certainly it does speed up during the pour, and I seem to have to allow it to continue well past "blonding" to get my 30ml from the double cup filter. Still getting better.

    Fourthly, with the beans I have (roasted recently, and ground immediately with SB EM480 before using), I am getting OK crema with the krups basket (yes, supermarket beans give NO crema!). The crema dissolves somewhat while Im steaming the milk, and by the time Im ready to pour in the milk, its beginning to look patchy on the surface. Im thinking bean type and freshness might be major issue here, but Ive more experimenting to do with fineness of grind, tamping, and bean type. Comments?

    Fifthly, the pucks with the krups are a delight! One little tap into my knock box and it falls out whole and dryish. With the pressurised SB, it was always a wet mush that took half a dozen knocks spattering everywhere nearby! The krups might work better because it doesnt have steep sides all the way down inside, or because it drains the liquid out better, or some other reason, but I like it!

    Sixthly, the krups is a looser fit in the SB group handle, but not too bad, just need to be careful you dont knock it out into the knock box.

    Anyone comments on any of this? Main questions would be amount of crema, and coffee grinds in the coffee. Should I grind less fine and tamp harder, or are grinds normal?






  9. #9
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    Re: Filter Baskets

    The SB basket looks like a double and the Krups a single.
    The ridge on the SB is new I think; the old 6900 baskets didnt have the ridge.

    The only way youll stop the grinds getting through the holes is to grind courser.

    For better crema you might need fresher beans. How sure are you about the freshness of the ones you are using?

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    Tassiebean Phil_Jones's Avatar
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    Re: Filter Baskets

    I should say that these baskets are for the low end sunbeams - this list might not be exhaustive - EM3600, 3800, 4800C, etc.

    Both are double shot baskets - although the krups has an inward "chamfer" so will be less volume, since both are the same height and diameter - maybe 14g versus 16g - I havent measured it, but it would be a small difference.

    Ill experiment with the beans.

    Anyway, are a few grinds normal or acceptable in a drink?

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    Re: Filter Baskets

    Quote Originally Posted by 576F6E6B584D68696274070 link=1234064740/9#9 date=1235519286
    Anyway, are a few grinds normal or acceptable in a drink?
    No and no in my opinion.

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    Re: Filter Baskets

    i would like to get one of those baskets sounds like a better pull than what i am getting

  13. #13
    Tassiebean Phil_Jones's Avatar
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    Re: Filter Baskets

    Ok, to investigate the "grinds in the cup" problem, I went down to my local coffee shop (and bean roaster!) and looked at their baskets (obviously 58mm). Anyway, their holes are much smaller.

    So, does anyone know of a domestic sized (approx 52mm) non-pressurised basket that would suit a low-end sunbeam machine (i.e. 3800, 4800C, etc), that has smaller holes than the krups part number above?

    Ive seen where people have cut the bottom wall off the supplied double-wall sunbeam filters, and while this is a little agricultural, it may be where I head next..... :-?

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    Senior Member GregWormald's Avatar
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    Re: Filter Baskets

    My first suggestion would be to cut away--the Sunbeam looks good from the top ;)

    My old La San Marco had 53 mm baskets, and they worked well. Im sure one of the parts suppliers in the sponsors area could help. They might even be able to tell you if it would fit.

    Greg

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    Re: Filter Baskets

    Tassiebean,

    I have been playing with a new non-pressurised basket over the last few days at work. I have gone for the Breville Bar Italia basket, so I am not sure if the holes are different, but I found that using a Sunbeam 4080 it was important not to grind too small and spend more time getting the tamping right. This should minimise the problem of grinds in the cup. The slow pour would also suggest too small a grind. Once I found the right setting, I have been flying along with consistent 25 second pours from a pretty ordinary machine. Crema is good and consistent. I am using a crappy plastic tamper as the baskets are only 53cms, but if I hold it near the press and work carefully around the basket, it all seems to come together well.

    Good Luck.

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    Tassiebean Phil_Jones's Avatar
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    Re: Filter Baskets

    Thanks, nelo.

    I went and bought a second sunbeam pressurised basket (so i could keep the original for stale beans ;) ) and stuck it on a lathe to cut the bottom off.

    Ive put a picture here for those interested. It turns out that it is not quite as simple as you might think, mostly because the basket has a springiness and as you try to cut into it, it tends to deflect away. As you can see, tried near the centre first, then further out, but finally, it worked best right out near the edge. Also deformed the basket rim flanges a bit using the 3-jaw chuck, so needed to gently tap them back into shape. The things we do...

    Yes, Ive backed off on the grind fineness and am now tamping harder. Still get a few grinds, but Ive decided I can live with it.



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    Re: Filter Baskets

    Quote Originally Posted by 1C24252013062322293F4C0 link=1234064740/7#7 date=1235468251
    Sixthly, the krups is a looser fit in the SB group handle, but not too bad, just need to be careful you dont knock it out into the knock box.

    Go buy yourself a new 58mm spring. Pop it in, should solve your problems. I know in the 51mm Breville handle that I have (dont ask why :P) it has a 58mm commercial spring in it.

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    Re: Filter Baskets

    hey...so seriously...where can I find a krups non-pressurised 51mm filter basket for my Sunbeam E3800 in Melbourne?

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    Re: Filter Baskets

    Hey TassieBean,
    I thought I was the first to turn off a basket bottom on a lathe, but you got in 2 weeks before..
    Damn you.
    Now that I have that out of my system, I have attached pics of the hole comparison between my modified SB basket and my Saeco basket.
    Saeco has twice the amount of holes and approx half the diameter compared to my sunbeam.
    Unfortunately the Saeco basket has an OD of 55mm and the Sunbeam has OD 53mm. Therefore not useable in my SB machine.

    With reference to your lathing experience.
    Also deformed the basket rim flanges a bit using the 3-jaw chuck,
    Most metal lathes have stepped face jaws, I was able to fit the jaws inside the basket and tighten outwards.

    as you try to cut into it, it tends to deflect away
    I used a toolbit with a 45degree point and fed it in super slow. Your attempt looks like you used a parting tool that may have been blunt.

    In the pic of the 3 baskets you can see I also attacked my single basket just for fun. It pulls an alright shot now.

    Here is my youtube submissions using the modified & non modified baskets.
    http://www.youtube.com/user/mrseca


    Also both hole photos are the exact same scale.







  20. #20
    Tassiebean Phil_Jones's Avatar
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    Re: Filter Baskets

    Mrseca,

    Nice job! You can turn up my baskets anytime! Actually, you might run a little business doing this on the side for CSs.

    Its just a damn shame SB and the others dont just sell one ready to go (with small holes). Anyway, been using mine for a while now, and works a treat.

    Focussing on the perfect rosetta now!


    TB

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    Re: Filter Baskets

    Question... If u dont have a metal lathe what else could u use to cut out the base of the SB basket??

  22. #22
    Senior Member GregWormald's Avatar
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    Re: Filter Baskets

    I used a small fibre cutting disk on a Dremel tool. It took about 10 minutes or so to do a Breville double floor basket.

    Greg



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