What state are you in. I can point you in the right direction.....hopefully.
good thing i found this great site! ive been having problems with my 800es, namely ground being caught in the basket and have been trying to find a tamper.
i want to get an unpressurised basket, and gather that i have two choices, one from the krups or one from the breville bar italia. can i ask which is better (i would assume the breville one would fit better, but could be wrong), and where do i order them from? i also live in north ryde...
ive searched and have found the krups usa parts website, and delivery will be almost as much as the actual basket! is this the best way to go?
and thank you di bartoli, you will most likely receive an order from me for a tamper very soon!
What state are you in. I can point you in the right direction.....hopefully.
By the way, just so you know, those generic SS 51mm tampers are too big for the krups baskets. Youll need to get a 49mm tamper
John go to krups.com and select "International" then find "Contact" at the bottom of the next page.
From there you should be able to find the Australian contact details.
I dont think they are too far from you.
Thank you for all your replies. Ill give Krups a call tomorow
I am in NSW, Sydney. And thanks for the tip about the tamper, any recommendations for a decent 49mm one?
Depends how much you want to spend! *;D *Our records indicate some variation in the 800 series baskets, but 49mm definitely looks smaller than necessary. I mean, itll fit but so will a pin! Dave S may well be right that some generic 51mm SS tampers are too big, but generic tampers could be anything from 50mm-51.5mm. Apply the same tolerance over the baskets and its pretty hard to state anything with any degree of certainty without seeing the baskets, so we dont. If you want a tamper that definitely fits its best to get one made for your baskets. For the record, we hardly ever need to make 49mm tampers, and have never done so for any Breville machine.Originally Posted by 333631372A34302D31590 link=1237642712/4#4 date=1237701922
What about those with Krups baskets Greg?
I have a Krups basket that Ive measured to be about 49mm
Depends which Krups baskets you have and how you measured it. With a ruler Id believe you because you cant get much better than 1-2mm accuracy with a ruler, if it was with calipers I wouldnt unless youve got a bad technique or have a basket we havent seen before. Weve got over a dozen in our database and they range from nearly 54mm down to 50 but not below that. Thats the trouble; with the exception of the 6900/6910 (and theyll change too one day), theres no such thing as "manufacturer Xs baskets need a xx.x diameter tamper". At best one can state a known range with the caveat that other baskets could be outside that range. It also depends on how good a fit one wants; if a bit of a sloppy fit is OK you can get away with the above but for any semblance of a good fit its anathema. Thats why we always encourage baskets to be sent in for sizing. Unfortunately until people have seen it first-hand its hard to get the point across ("but dude Ive got a Silvia, they are so common surely it cant be that hard?" when Silvias are known to have OVER a millimetre between the biggest and smallest - manufacturing down to 0.05mm, where do you start guessing which variant any particular owner has??)
With no exaggeration, the average punter could easily pick the difference between a tamper with (say) 0.2mm clearance and 0.5mm. In isolation, they may not say 0.5mm is too loose but compare it with the other and it will appear less than ideal. Once you start approaching 1mm the slop is obvious. Again it may not bother everyone but you cant miss it. Most factory tampers are so loose that a difference of a millimetre or so in basket size doesnt matter but it makes a big difference in this sort of context when looking for a tamper thats the right size. So if yours is a 50mm Krups basket then a 49mm will fit, with about 1mm of slop. Compared to using the back of a spoon thats pretty good (and lets face it, thats the alternative for some) but its not what we would call the right size by any means.
digital vernier calipers.
I can deal with slop. Id rather slop than a tamper that fits too tightly in an espresso bar.
There are two baskets which fit the Breville that are, IMHO. an abomination!!!
That is the ESP 1/2 and the ESP 2/4....
These, as the name suggests, are dual dose baskets..... they tamper from top to bottom..... being 2-3mm smaller in diameter at the lower dosing level!!! Add to that the level marks and the numbers are stamped inwards to a depth of 1mm..... and it is impossible to get any tamper to work half decently!!
You would need one size for the top..... somewhere about 51mm.... and a 49mm (or smaller) for the lower level..... also the 1/2 basket is a different size to the 2/4 - even at the top level.....
Anyone who sends these to us, when I see what they have I strongly recommend they purchase a Krups basket (which has parallel walls)..... there is no way we can make even a decent tamper for an ESP basket.... certainly not a fitted tamper.
The ESP4 baskets will only fit one style of breville machine I believe. It is a portafilter with 2 lugs as opposed to the 3 lug proprietary design shared by sunbeam, breville and krups. The ESP4 cup filter will not fit in the 3 lug portafilters.
okay i ordered the esp/4 baskets yesterday from breville, should be arriving this week.
the reason i chose it over the krups ones is from reading this thread:
oh well, if it turns out that i made the wrong choice then it was only a $20 mistake :)
Your baskets could come from a production run weve not come across before, and if so its a case in point as to what I said in my last post that one cant make a blanket statement about basket sizes from a given manufacturer or machine. Weve got recent Breville 800 measurements on file which are OVER 51mm.Originally Posted by 7F5D5B40474D5B280 link=1237642712/8#8 date=1237875580
As to slop, theres something wrong if youre using an ESP4 in an espresso bar! Dont you guys have a reasonable LM there? ;D I always recommend a bit of extra clearance for commercial work and comps where high speed is important, but when this isnt the case (such as at home where the majority of Brevilles would be) you can go for the optimal fit.
If (for whatever reason) one chooses to go for the wrong size tamper, obviously its better to have a smaller tamper that at least fits inside the basket to one that doesnt, even if it is sloppy; however to us, sloppy is too small, and wed prefer a tamper that fits properly to one that is sloppy or too tight. Such an outcome is entirely achievable given sufficient care, its just more work than most can be bothered about, but its the outcome the vast majority of our customers enjoy when they send in baskets / purchase replacements.
Nah, the LM FB80 has given up the ghost, we had to replace her with 3x Brevilles duct taped together! :DOriginally Posted by 6570676572776E6E6F636C020 link=1237642712/12#12 date=1237930927
came home today to find a package from breville... "hooray" i thought, my first unpressurised shot! the quest for real crema begins!
but no, seems like i had ordered the wrong part and was delievered the 2-4 shot basket, its too deep to fit into my pf :(
so off i go to try to exchange this one somehow, or just order a krups one.
Not to be an ass, but see previous post #10: http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1237642712/#10
I know from past experience that the ESP4 baskets will not fit any sunbeam, breville or krups machine that has 3 lugs on the portafilter. This ESP basket is made for a really old Breville machine that has 2 lugs on the pf.
You will need this part from Krups. model MS0907163. It can be used in all 3 lug portafilters. I got one not so long ago for a friend.
I use a ESP4/51 (1-2 cup) in my little Sunbeam Ristretto EM2300, which I think is a 3 lug portafilter from memory. I always use it as a double so the tapering of the basket isnt a problem as far a tamping goes (for me anyway), but Im only using an Incasa 51mm tamper, not a fitted one.
I would say youve been sent the ESP4/78 (2-4 cup) basket. I would see if you can exchange it as Ive read on this forum that the Krups baskets tend to fallout when knocking and the ESP4 baskets have smaller holes allowing for a finer grind, but I dont have any experience with the Krups basket myself.
I have both un-pressised baskets for my Ikon.
I find I lean more towrds the Krups. *It is easier to get out of the PF, & that is the basket my tamper was made for! *However, I find it leaves a few grounds in my cup as opposed to the Bar Italia filter.
I ordered the ESP4-51 for my Breville 800ES, received it and if fits fine, I think Ronjay is on the money, you may have been sent the wrong one :(Originally Posted by 415C5D59524A330 link=1237642712/17#17 date=1238108755
Now all I need is a custom tamper ;)
If it is the ESP4 with the two levels (2 and 4) and the numbers and levels are stamped inwards (towards the centre of the basket).... it really isnt practical to make a fitted tamper....Originally Posted by 7B6677727B1E0 link=1237642712/19#19 date=1239255270
These baskets taper badly and the inwards indentations affect the tamping so much that when I am sent one to have a Pullman fitted tamper made.... I suggest to the customer they purchase a Krups basket!!!
Trying to fit a tamper to one of these is a waste of the customers money....
Unless they are reasonably straight sided and without nasty indentations...... then just get a "generic" tamper which "sort of" fits.... that would be the most cost effective answer..... and you will achieve about the same results when tamping :(
i too have the ikon and originally got the esp4-51 basket. this was good, but then i cut the bottom out of the original single basket[really easy with a dremel], dropped the screen down into place, and the shots improved instantly. i use a generic chrome 52mm tamper made by barista basics which i sanded around the perimeter a little to make it fit, now its very snug....... that may have had something to do with the shot improvement, as the same tamper was a looser fit in the esp4-51 basket? perhaps unmodified the same tamper will be a perfect fit for the esp4-51?
i received the esp4/51 basket (which fits in the 800es pf), got a s/s tamper, some fresh beans, and finally had some time to make some espresso yesterday.
after a bit of time learning the basics of proper dosing and tamping, i was able to see the striping and blonding that people describe.
however, it seems to be blonding way quicker than the 60ml mark, and if i let it go to the 60ml then the shot becomes way over extracted. what i do get when i stop at the blonding point is a weak tasting shot, a little bit sour and lacking in body.
looks like i will have to work harder at my dosing and tamping, and perhaps adjust my grinder according to this thread:
i might try to get the krups basket if it will yield better results, although im reaching the limit as to the amount of money im willing to spend on this machine rather than upgrading...
Do you find the machine pumps out the espresso shots way too quickly regardless of how hard you tamp on this unit?
Also, the heat light keeps popping up as soon as I hit the 20ml mark even after waiting till the initial light turning off...
maybe the grind is too course?Do you find the machine pumps out the espresso shots way too quickly regardless of how hard you tamp on this unit?
maybe machine not given sufficient time to heat group head etc?Also, the heat light keeps popping up as soon as I hit the 20ml mark even after waiting till the initial light turning off...
Originally Posted by 2603140B06212429620 link=1237642712/23#23 date=1239512425
i havent put a stopwatch to it yet, but after using the unpressurised basket im getting around 40mls in 20secs or so. i stop the pour after that as the colour turns quite light and anything more and ill over extract.
are you using the pressurised basket? when i had that, no matter what i did the 60ml came out in around 10 secs.
i havent been paying attention to the heating light when the pour is happening, as i am too focused on the espresso coming out! ill take a look tomorrow morning :)
Now THEREs where Ive been caught out. I havent had the opportunity to purchase the unpressurized basket, Breville service didnt exactly bother replying my questions regarding their single wall baskets. I thought theyd want to take another $30 off the stingy me. But they didnt haha
And yes, it came out in 10 seconds! Okay so I am not daft or anything I had a laugh
Any online sponsors that will sell these baskets?
you can give breville a call at 1300 139 798 and ask for the model number esp4/51. the baskets actually for the bar italia, but it fits perfectly into the 800es. it cost me $20 delivered.
people say the krups basket is a better alternative to the breville, which also fits into the 800es, as per the earlier posts on this thread. have a look at this link: http://www.coffeegeek.com/forums/worldregional/australasia/59106
also, i had a look yesterday to see whether the red light came one while pulling a shot - the light did not come on at all during the 30 seconds or so. i do use the temp surfing trick described in a thread (which i cant find now).
basically, someone with a temperature gauge thingy measured the water that the 800es normally produces for espresso, and found it was ~86C, which is way too low for optimum extraction. he then recommended to turn on the steam, and when steam does come out of the wand (as opposed to the inital few seconds of water), turn the steam off. the machine will then go silent for a few seconds, and the internal pump will begin to make noise.
at exactly 2.5 seconds after the pump starts making the noise, turn the switch to espresso. he found that by doing this, the water was at the ideal 92C. you can adjust the desired temperature up or down by waiting longer (for cooler) or vice versa.
Thanks for that, that, was mega helpful. Ill give Breville a call tomorrow :) Will try out that trick tomorrow morning!
You know... the water didnt seem too much hotter in my cup when I tried this trick.
I then just boiled water and stuck it straight into the tank to make my shots. Now THAT was good. :)
I wonder what the risk was for putting in water that just got off boil for a few seconds...
My father has one of these and I understand that what it is doing when you switch from steam to coffee is pumping some of the water to waste to prevent overly hot water being used for extraction.
I guess the downside of using hot water in the tank will be shorter life of the tank and tubing on the cold water side. Also you may find the tank goes more opaque, like the plastic measuring jugs do, which will make it harder to see the water level.
Is that all? Cool! I can just swap out the tank for a smaller glass tank and the tube should be replaceable with another material (I think). Ill check the construct later on this afternoon...
*edit* It wasnt replaceable haha, the whole tubing is attached all the way into the machine and not as a separate part to replace :P. The glass jug can fit in there with hot water - but its not necessary anymore it seems :)
Thanks Caffeol :)
after a lot of shots over the past weekend, im still finding the result too watery and lacking in body. im not finding the shot sour, so that means the water isnt suffering from being too cool right?
ive tried to grind finer, which added some body but limited my shot to less than 30mls from a double dose (from the esp4/51) in 30 secs. then i tried updosing with this finer grind, and the shot tasted better, but i get a slick of water on top of the puck afterwards.
should i tamp with less force? most times im finding holes in my puck, and sometimes there will be little curled marks on the top of the puck about 3cm long in the centre. im guessing my tamping technique still needs work!
i guess the next step is to work on my tamp, although the tamper is a little too small for the basket (i got the 51mm one from di bartoli). then try grinding a little coaser to get a bit more volume, but updosing to try to add body?
this coffee stuff is hard! i want to get the most out of my machine before upgrading, although i must admit i have been eyeing the isomac zaffiro lately *:D
1: Fresh beans is a MUST.. Ant thing else will lead you astrayOriginally Posted by 636661677A64607D61090 link=1237642712/32#32 date=1240320718
2: Pack ya puck and then add a 5cent piece to teh top... Engage and then remove...
You should just have a slight indentation of teh 5cent piece
Thus your dose level is defined... Allows for expansion of teh grinds... Other wise if too far over dosed, then you in fact tamp even more when locking it in.
Under dosing usually gives sloppy tops...
3: From there it is an issue of trying ONE thing at a time... And then being able to repeat it..
Upgrading is an option and is always on the cards for any snob... However a bigger more expensive machine does not mean instant success....
The same principles as to Beans / Grind / Tamp / Temp etc etc are all relevant...
Just checked with Breville and they are bringing out unpressurised baskets for the 800. Found out by inquiring about the 860 baskets (which are too big - 54mm - and not in stock anyway) and was told to check back in about 1 month to see if they are in.
Lets hope this doesnt turn into a years wait... if at all.
Dont know how well the 5c piece method works on these machines as the shower screen isnt at all flat. Has quite pronounced ridges and is concave by about 4-5mm. I am trying to flatten out the screen (waiting for a replacement before doing this) in an attempt to help with a drier puck after extraction.
the beans that i used were roasted less than 10 days ago, so i dont think that was the problem.Originally Posted by 0E21282A3D022E212E282A222A213B4F0 link=1237642712/33#33 date=1240323227
thats right, i tried the 5c trick and found the outside edge of the shower screen was digging into the ground before the 5c made any indentation. what i do now is dose to a level which is just below the ridge on the shower screen, but not always successful :)Originally Posted by 3C272E383B364F0 link=1237642712/34#34 date=1240360786
thats great news about the unpressurised baskets! in the least it will save a lot of hassle for users having to order the krups or bar italia baskets, and hopefully it will get people to appreciate the making of and taste of real crema!
Hi Shawty.Originally Posted by 243F3620232E570 link=1237642712/34#34 date=1240360786
Can you give an update on this unpressurized Breville basket for the 800 ?
Its almost a year now ! *;)
i called breville NZ earlier today re them releasing unpressurised baskets and the rep said she knew nothing about it.
Same thing at Breville USA, so I ordered the Krups 0907163 at a local s store for 8$ Canadian.Originally Posted by 3E2C2F590 link=1237642712/37#37 date=1264150700
Should have it in 2 weeks... :D
Yep.Originally Posted by 756764120 link=1237642712/37#37 date=1264150700
Its long been rumoured that they were releasing an unpressurised basket but it was baseless back then and is baseless now.
Its the Krups basket ftw.
ordered the krups basket and pullman tamper last night.
Good stuff.Originally Posted by 332122540 link=1237642712/40#40 date=1264213663
Be sure to let us know how the new basket affects your coffee making.
Its done wonders for mine, thats for sure.
Finally received my Krups basket yesterday and I find it very harder to pull a good shot with nice crema.
With the pressurized basket it always has a nice "false" crema.
I however managed to pull a couple of decent shots with nice crema and one thing that almost throw me on the floor was the taste... A million times better than with the original filter !
And finally a nice almost dry puck.
I use Illy beans and grind them with a DeLongy mill at the finest grind and and it gives me 60ml in 20 seconds.
Maybe my grinder is too old, Ive been using it for at least 6 years.
Thats the reason you practise with your new basket.Originally Posted by 3A3C2B2D25374E0 link=1237642712/43#43 date=1266008950
You werent doing anything using the old basket; now you actually have to make the coffee.
Oh so true TG... Yet again.Originally Posted by 6C504D565C5D4A5F575C380 link=1237642712/44#44 date=1266015099
Pat Duff now the real road to coffee starts ;)
Hi Pat,Originally Posted by 2F293E3830225B0 link=1237642712/43#43 date=1266008950
The grinder MAY be too old and worn, or maybe not just good enough in the first place. The Baratza grinders get a pretty good reviews for the low price range in North America, and my sister in Vancouver loves hers.
The beans, however, ARE DEFINITELY too old to use for good coffee. There are only a few beans that are good beyond 4 weeks from roasting, and they are usually compost by week 6.
If your beans have a "use by" or "best before" date on them, rather than a "roasted on" date, *it is almost a certainty that they are stale and useless. You will either need to find a local roaster who can supply fresh beans, or start roasting your own. Green beans, with proper storage, will keep for 1-3 years.
Well i have had the tamper and basket for a few weeks. Coffee has improved dramatically. Getting good long extractions and the taste is great. Only issue is that there seem to be a grinds getting to the cup. Not totally sure why - im tamping on a clean surface and have checked for grinds on the holes under the group handle (where the coffee comes from). Any ideas?Originally Posted by 686868220 link=1237642712/41#41 date=1264224840
Great to hear. :)Originally Posted by 574546300 link=1237642712/47#47 date=1266187270
No idea, sorry, but i have had the same issue at times.Originally Posted by 574546300 link=1237642712/47#47 date=1266187270
Hopefully one of the experts here will be able to shed some light on it.
Only just saw this thread,Originally Posted by 4F495E5850423B0 link=1237642712/36#36 date=1264116721
Looks like the person I talked to at Breville didnt give me the right info after all.
I have moved on from the 820 so havent been following through with it anyway.
Probably your grinder is producing an uneven grind with some fines which make their way through the basket holes.Originally Posted by 5C4E4D3B0 link=1237642712/47#47 date=1266187270