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Thread: Cafe Roma single walled basket - leaky and soupy.

  1. #1
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    Cafe Roma single walled basket - leaky and soupy.

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    I have finally managed to get a single wall filter for the Cafe Roma and I am using the same grind, dose and tamp as I use in the standard double-wall filter. When I make the shot, coffee dribbles out for a couple of seconds and then it backs up and spills over the sides. I have taken video, please have a look and tell me what you think.
    My thoughts are that the group head does not seal properly against this new basket, already it feels easier to lock in than normal.
    Sorry about the shaky cam, I had to hold the phone with one hand and turn the machine off etc with the other :)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Afj9i6dcRds

    Thanks for taking the time to have a look!

    P.S. I dont think the grinds are too fine because I dont have this problem at all with the double filter - and I always end up with a nice dry puck each time.

  2. #2
    Senior Member GregWormald's Avatar
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    Re: Cafe Roma single walled basket - leaky and soupy.

    IMO the grind is too coarse and the coffee is flowing faster from the basket than the holes in the portafilter can handle. Hence the overflowing is around the outside of the basket.

    I have the same issue with my old La San Marco Domus when I grind too coarse.

    Greg

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    Re: Cafe Roma single walled basket - leaky and soupy.

    So maybe its time to start applying the shims supplied by Breville.

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    Re: Cafe Roma single walled basket - leaky and soupy.

    I got my single wall double basket from site sponsor Uro Coffee and it fits in both the old Sunbeam EM2300 and the new (used) Breville 800ES.* Both machines have a 51mm PF.

    No leaks.

    I have been playing with the grind for the 800ES and yesterday managed to choke the machine with too fine a grind (I have a Sunbeam EM0480).

    I still think you need a thicker seal (or thicker lipped filter basket).

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    Re: Cafe Roma single walled basket - leaky and soupy.

    To hazard a guess, theres a couple of things causing your issues, Id say that one of them is that Youre grinding too course, the other is. When was the last time you checked/replaced your group head seal? Because that might explain the spilling out over the sides. Do you get the leaking from the top with the double-wall filter?

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    Re: Cafe Roma single walled basket - leaky and soupy.

    No leaking with double wall filter, and I really highly doubt that the seal is leaking, I have probably made less than 100 shots with this machine so far. I think the ridge on the single wall filter being too small is far more likely to be the reason... still, I will look at installing my shims next weekend and see what difference that makes. ;)

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    Re: Cafe Roma single walled basket - leaky and soupy.

    Hmmm, Odd, I have heard that the Krupps filter basket is slightly flatter around the seal then the Sunbeam/Breville ones. Are you using a Krupps single-wall, a Breville single wall, or a self-made one?

    Perhaps looking for a thicker group head seal might work on the leaking out the top problem

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    Re: Cafe Roma single walled basket - leaky and soupy.

    I think Breville did supply me with the Krups basket - it would explain those problems. I dont have the leaking out the top problem when I used the Breville-supplied one. With the Double-walled basket I have drilled a 2.5mm hole in the bottom to un-pressurise it a bit an this together with using the new grinder has improved my coffee enormously but I am still sometimes getting a wet puck. Do I need to buy a coffee tamper? All I have is that silly plastic thing that came with the machine.

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    Re: Cafe Roma single walled basket - leaky and soupy.

    I think the double baskets tend to leave you with a wet puck unless you let it dry out for ages in the machine, at least thats what I used to find with the dual wall double basket and my EM2300.

    With the Krups (or Krups lookalike), the puck is always dry and knocks out beautifully. I have found this with both the EM2300 and the Breville 800ES.

    I just received the Breville single wall baskets yesterday and tried them out the double shot last night and this morning and it left a dampish puck.* These baskets are straight walled as opposed to the tapered wall of the Krups and the hole diameter in the Breville is smaller so Im assumming the puck will take longer to dry out. The Breville basket holds more coffee but Im still trying to find the right grinder setting as my pour is still a bit quick and underextracted.

    A tamper may help, it may also hinder until you get used to using it. The black plastic scoop/tamper is not ideal but better than nothing.* I have a convex 49mm stainless tamper thats just a bit too small so I ordered a 51.5mm flat tamper from site sponsor Sorrentina coffee, I have no idea if the flat tamper as opposed to curved tamper will make a difference but after precisely measuring the baskets I think (hope) it will give me a more even tamp as my pours are a bit uneven at times.

    http://sorrentinacoffee.myshopify.com/products/la-sorrentina-tamper-51-5mm-universal-52mm

    Its a journey...




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    Re: Cafe Roma single walled basket - leaky and soupy.

    Thanks... I feel a bit overwhelmed and VERY confused. Whilst happy with most of my shots they are all so inconsistent and some are so soggy its not funny.

    Some are getting blocked altogether, does this mean Im tamping too hard or not hard enough? I dont think its the grind because normally the grind is ok. All I did was change beans not the grind size. When it comes to a consistent dose, does that mean I have to make 2 shots even if I just want 1 cup? sooo confused!

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    Senior Member Pavoniboy's Avatar
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    Re: Cafe Roma single walled basket - leaky and soupy.

    Quote Originally Posted by 152A21362E3B3B2E4F0 link=1315798796/9#9 date=1316592519
    I dont think its the grind because normally the grind is ok. All I did was change beans not the grind size.
    Different beans = need for different grind size.

    All beans are different and will require adjustments to grind size as you change bean. As beans age you may also find you need to adjust the grind accordingly too.

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    Re: Cafe Roma single walled basket - leaky and soupy.

    agh! so... many... variables!

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    Re: Cafe Roma single walled basket - leaky and soupy.

    I find with my little roma that when i grind too fine and overdose, it will start to leak over the seal (or occasionally blow the handle off). My machine is virtually brand new and the rubber is in good condition. I think these machines are really just built to a very low price and thats what you get. The best shots i can get out of the roma are the slowest pours, however these seems to be a fine line between success and failure. I would suggest trying a courser grind. If its pouring too quickly, gradually grind finer with the same dose.

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    Re: Cafe Roma single walled basket - leaky and soupy.

    I think i need a new coffee machine. but i dont have a big budget. what should i look for second hand?

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    Re: Cafe Roma single walled basket - leaky and soupy.

    Quote Originally Posted by 655A51465E4B4B5E3F0 link=1315798796/13#13 date=1319505511
    what should i look for second hand
    as long as youre not making many milky cups at one time the answer here is a Silvia or Lelit. Around $500 for something 2 years old - they will hold that value well.

    Do you have $500? What grinder do you have? (apologies if I missed it above) You may need to fork out more there too to get the best from these more capable machines... youre okay if its a smart grinder


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    Re: Cafe Roma single walled basket - leaky and soupy.

    Ive just gotten around to modifying my double walled basket into a single wall. So now I have the potential to make better coffee but Im not sure which variables to tweak first!

    Im using a hand grinder that I got many years ago for about $30 from some small homeware retailer, it seems to grind fine enough, but not really sure!* Ive got some Peru Cava de Silva beans roasted to a bit into second crack. Still using the plastic pusher thing (which isnt a real tamper?).

    First attempt with the single walled filter gave me nice thick looking pour, with a good head of crema, and those cool looking bubble waves that appear to flow up the side of the glass.

    The pour was centered nicely, and had a nice curve to it, I did notice two of the holes spraying water out for a few seconds, does this imply channeling?

    I got a little over 65 mL in 30s, with a bit less than 17g of beans, the weight of the grinds would be a bit less, didnt think to weigh after tamping!

    The puck was completely saturated, a pool of water on top of it up to the top of the portafilter, which may be a limitation of the machine, not sure!

    The taste was very sour! My wife even mentioned that the kitchen smelled sour after Id done it!

    My question is I guess, what do I try modifying first, grind, dose, or tamping? Or something else entirely?

    edit: I cant really afford any new equipment, but I may be getting a BCG800 grinder from the in-laws for christmas.

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    Re: Cafe Roma single walled basket - leaky and soupy.

    Had another go this morning with a little bit more coffee, and more tamping pressure, and it was vastly better! Still had one channel spraying coffee all over the shop, so Im not quite there yet!

    Taste was way less sour, still not a "WOW" espresso, but improving! Quit a nice body, and very smooth mouth feel, but lacking the intricate flavours I got from my plunger with the same beans at a courser grind.

    Hrm, had a thought that I might have posted these last two in the wrong place. It is about a cafe roma with unpressurised baskets thats producing bad coffee :) I have a feeling the problem lies between the handle and the floor though!

  18. #18
    Senior Member trentski's Avatar
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    Re: Cafe Roma single walled basket - leaky and soupy.

    Sour is most likely because the water is a little on the cold side.
    You wont get the same flavours from espresso as you will from other brewing methods because they are, well, they are different ;)

    The days since roasting will also affect the flavour, I find it all a bit bland before 6 days post roast for the Peru.



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