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Thread: New to this and looking for advice on first purchase

  1. #1
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    New to this and looking for advice on first purchase

    Hi all,

    Started drinking coffee about 2 years ago (very late starter) and bought myself a refurbished Delonghi primadonna automatic machine.
    It served it's purpose, however I'm wanting a coffee more the calibre of what I get at a cafe. Heck, even a latte at McDonald's is richer and more enjoyable.

    We drink pretty much latte only.

    I've spent the last several days reading everything I can about types of machines, techniques, grinders and so on. Whilst I'd love to jump in with two feet and get some fancy expensive equipment, I don't think I could justify it for several reasons, least of all skill.
    I also need something that I can show my partner was money well spent. She's quite happy with the delonghi.

    At this stage I would like to pick up something secondhand.

    A couple things that are important for me.

    Ability to make good foam for lattes.
    Speed of heating. Sub 10 min if possible (Thermalblock??)

    I've considered Sunbeam EM7000, EM9610. If I read enough, I find enough people saying these are problematic, especially after a year or so.
    I'd like a Rancilio or Gaggia classic, but I'm worried about burning elements, especially on older versions.
    Surely there are other options I'm just not familiar with ?

    As for the grinder. The short list is
    Sunbeam EM0480
    Breville smart grinder pro
    Rocky - but probably out of my price range unless its a good second hand unit.


    Should I also be considering the portafilter with the machine ? It would seem silly to buy a cheap machine, only to pay $200 on a non pressurised PF etc which I might get with a slightly dearer machine. Or should I not even bother for now ?

    I've read so much I'm confused.

    Any help much appreciated.

    Regards
    Jamie

  2. #2
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    Hey Jamie
    where are you located? Hopefully your near one of the site sponsors so can go in, talk more about what your after and what your hoping to get out of your coffee. Some simple hands on time with a machine would help too as come from a superauto to having fresh beans, grinding, (weighing), tamping, pulling espresso, steaming milk, cleaning machines ect may not be for you.

    Most importantly to give better ideas on suggested gear we need to know a total budget (machine and grinder) you can spend.

    You would have seen advise, but in case not, ensure you spend well on a grinder. If you have $1200-$1500 total budget spend $500 on a grinder or aim for that level of new if going second hard is may get that level for $300 second hand. Don’t pair $1450 machine with $50 grinder.
    If happy with second hand keep in mind may need new burrs depending on useage. Same goes for machine, it may need a service, and don’t forget a filtration for the water.
    Good luck

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mb21 View Post
    Hey Jamie
    where are you located? Hopefully your near one of the site sponsors so can go in, talk more about what your after and what your hoping to get out of your coffee. Some simple hands on time with a machine would help too as come from a superauto to having fresh beans, grinding, (weighing), tamping, pulling espresso, steaming milk, cleaning machines ect may not be for you.

    Most importantly to give better ideas on suggested gear we need to know a total budget (machine and grinder) you can spend.

    You would have seen advise, but in case not, ensure you spend well on a grinder. If you have $1200-$1500 total budget spend $500 on a grinder or aim for that level of new if going second hard is may get that level for $300 second hand. Donít pair $1450 machine with $50 grinder.
    If happy with second hand keep in mind may need new burrs depending on useage. Same goes for machine, it may need a service, and donít forget a filtration for the water.
    Good luck
    Hi Mb21,

    Thanks for your reply.

    I'm located in rural SA. Not really close to any resellers unfortunately ( that I know of).

    You bring up a good point, and something I am acutely aware of. Especially for my partner.
    I think I might enjoy the making process, and for the most part enjoy making for others. But when not home and my partner wants a coffee....it could become challenging.
    Ultimately the convenience and WAF is a large reason I don't want to spend a lot of money either. If it was just me I'd probably already have a spent a small fortune.

    My total budget for this exercise is ~$600.

    I was thinking a second hand machine, something in the Sunbeam or Breville range. Possibly even a Gaggia Classic, paired with something like the grinder units mentioned (0480 or smart grinder pro)
    The Gaggia Classic seems to the best machine for the money, with the trade off that it could take a little longer to heat up initially. However 10 min or so I could live with, even knowing I might not be getting the best from it.

    Thanks again.

  4. #4
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    Something to consider. You’re 2 years into you coffee journey and already wanting to upgrade. Going for an appliance style machine could see you in the same position in a couple more years. They do a decent job but don’t reallly last and it’s often not practical to repair them.

    Worth looking at the 2nd hand market as your budget puts you in line for a Silvia/Rocky combo. Not had them myself but plenty of people on this forum have happily used them for years.
    RavenMad likes this.

  5. #5
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    Hi arcachon,

    Yes very true. And one reason I am leaning towards a Gaggia Classic at the moment. I think these seem to offer good value for an entry level machine.

    There are a few for sale second hand. But probably something I need to ask elsewhere, is how to know if they are any good. Parts pricing seems pretty reasonable though.

  6. #6
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    I also had a primmadonna. They can be improved.

    The grinder retains heaps of grinds, so the first shot each day is a sink shot.

    Also i had to clock the grinder to make it grind finer.

    But the issue then becomes that the grind times out before it grinds a full dose. So select the strongest drink and a double, but make it shortest water....

    It requires a different grind setting for different size drinks or it come up with adjust mill error.

    My next thing was going to be to weigh a waste puck (once dried) and manually grind my beans. But then i think i worked out the pump wasnt up to pressure....

    So i sold it...

    If you are slightly handy a 6910 will give great results for low investment.
    wilsonj likes this.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by wilsonj View Post
    Hi all,

    At this stage I would like to pick up something secondhand.

    A couple things that are important for me.

    Ability to make good foam for lattes.
    Speed of heating. Sub 10 min if possible (Thermalblock??)

    I've considered Sunbeam EM7000, EM9610. If I read enough, I find enough people saying these are problematic, especially after a year or so.
    I'd like a Rancilio or Gaggia classic, but I'm worried about burning elements, especially on older versions.
    Surely there are other options I'm just not familiar with ?

    As for the grinder. The short list is
    Sunbeam EM0480
    Breville smart grinder pro
    Rocky - but probably out of my price range unless its a good second hand unit.


    Should I also be considering the portafilter with the machine ? It would seem silly to buy a cheap machine, only to pay $200 on a non pressurised PF etc which I might get with a slightly dearer machine. Or should I not even bother for now ?

    I've read so much I'm confused.

    Any help much appreciated.

    Regards
    Jamie
    1) I always laugh when I read about the "problematic 6910s". Two main issues - a lot of people use them as their first espresso machine and do not maintain them. Unlike most domestic appliances, any espresso machine needs a lot more cleaning and maintaining compared to most domestic whitegoods or it will stop producing decent coffee (and I mean ANY espresso machine, regardless of cost), and SB have probably shipped more of them than all other espresso machines in Oz added together so more complaints exist. IF you are prepared to keep it clean and maintain it properly the 6910 is built like a tank and will last for years. I know three 2007 / 2008 ones (including one of mine) still going strong which would have only been serviced once each in all that time. Mind you, I regularly encounter 6910s which have never had the showerscreens removed and need a major cleanup before they have any chance of producing a decent cuppa. I have preselected several for friends at circa $200 each secondhand, and mostly they have just needed a thorough clean. Poor technique will destroy the seals and / or collar (coffee grounds are like grinding paste) in record time - also applies to any espresso machine, although some 6910s have a softer collar so they are less tolerant of that form of espresso abuse.
    Pros: 90 second warmup, plenty of shot power and steam power (when clean), easy to clean & maintain. Main items can be programmed in (including a few different preinfusio, steam and temperature settings)

    Cons: Noisy SOBs. Pre and post flushes are essential to keep them clean (probably average amongst espresso machines, my 2 group commercial La Pav needs a lot less flushing to keep clean). Essential to remove the showerscreens every 250 or so grams of coffee (i.e. time consuming to keep it pristine - once again, no better or worse than most espresso machines).

    Main gotcha - use crappy water and any machine will die in a few months (including really up market Italian ones).

    2) Grinders - 6910 comment revisited really - fine if cleaned and maintained properly. 480 (now 500) / Smartgrinder / Rocky are all close in the cuppa. 480 is more manual and cheaper (when new), Smartgrinder is more user friendly and slugs you about $50 more to buy new. Rocky will possibly last a bit longer (not too sure about that personally). I have seen a few of each in the terminal pile at the local repairers however when treated with TLC they all should give a few years of domestic servitude. FWIW, I regard the grinder as way more important than the machine so I would try to buy the SB / Breville new rather than a secondhand anything. Oh, lesser SBs (i.e. 440 or whatever) tend to be far more hit and miss in the quality in the cuppa. As you are rural I would regard the 480 / 500 as a minimum

    3) P/fs - AFAIAC using a standard commercial sized p/f & non pressurised basket is essential. Going naked / bottomless p/f is a good idea to hone your technique - and IMO makes a better cuppa than bashing the crema through spouts - YMMV.

    Hope this helps

    TampIt
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  8. #8
    Senior Member LeroyC's Avatar
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    Iíll second Tampitís comments above. The reason Sunbeam 6910s and 7000s die is because people donít look after them. Iíve bought 6 supposedly broken Sunbeam EM6910s in the last year or so and have been able to get 4 functioning machines out of them. Every single one of them was in a disgustingly dirty state and I certainly wouldnít have wanted to be drinking coffee made with them. Most of them actually only needed a really thorough and deep clean to get going again, but I replaced seals and occasionally valves, knobs, buttons and group head collars too.
    So whatever you buy make sure you clean it. Iíve also refurbished two Gaggia Classics that were in the same state. Theyíll probably hung in there a little longer than a Sunbeam as theyíre a bit less fragile but theyíll also die if not kept clean. In fact you can kill just about any level of machine this way so itís really key.
    Also are you talking about new or second hand? I donít think youíll get a new Gaggia Classic and a grinder for $600. Plus itíll be the new iteration of the Classic with the stainless boiler and different internals to the far superior old version. You should still be able to buy the Sunbeam starter package on eBay for about $550ish. Itís called the PU6910 and includes the EM6910 machine and EM0450 grinder. Itís a good starting point within your budget and the 6910 is way more user friendly than the Gaggia Classic if you want your wife to be able to use it.
    Other than that your $600 budget might get you a lower level Breville like a BES870 or youíre looking at second hand options. Thereís occasionally some good second hand machines here on Coffee Snobs for that price, but youíll need to be patient and be happy to buy a used machine obviously. Hope this all helps a little.
    zeezaw, WarrenK and wilsonj like this.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by TampIt View Post
    1) I always laugh when I read about the "problematic 6910s". Two main issues - a lot of people use them as their first espresso machine and do not maintain them. Unlike most domestic appliances, any espresso machine needs a lot more cleaning and maintaining compared to most domestic whitegoods or it will stop producing decent coffee (and I mean ANY espresso machine, regardless of cost), and SB have probably shipped more of them than all other espresso machines in Oz added together so more complaints exist. IF you are prepared to keep it clean and maintain it properly the 6910 is built like a tank and will last for years. I know three 2007 / 2008 ones (including one of mine) still going strong which would have only been serviced once each in all that time. Mind you, I regularly encounter 6910s which have never had the showerscreens removed and need a major cleanup before they have any chance of producing a decent cuppa. I have preselected several for friends at circa $200 each secondhand, and mostly they have just needed a thorough clean. Poor technique will destroy the seals and / or collar (coffee grounds are like grinding paste) in record time - also applies to any espresso machine, although some 6910s have a softer collar so they are less tolerant of that form of espresso abuse.
    Pros: 90 second warmup, plenty of shot power and steam power (when clean), easy to clean & maintain. Main items can be programmed in (including a few different preinfusio, steam and temperature settings)

    Cons: Noisy SOBs. Pre and post flushes are essential to keep them clean (probably average amongst espresso machines, my 2 group commercial La Pav needs a lot less flushing to keep clean). Essential to remove the showerscreens every 250 or so grams of coffee (i.e. time consuming to keep it pristine - once again, no better or worse than most espresso machines).

    Main gotcha - use crappy water and any machine will die in a few months (including really up market Italian ones).

    2) Grinders - 6910 comment revisited really - fine if cleaned and maintained properly. 480 (now 500) / Smartgrinder / Rocky are all close in the cuppa. 480 is more manual and cheaper (when new), Smartgrinder is more user friendly and slugs you about $50 more to buy new. Rocky will possibly last a bit longer (not too sure about that personally). I have seen a few of each in the terminal pile at the local repairers however when treated with TLC they all should give a few years of domestic servitude. FWIW, I regard the grinder as way more important than the machine so I would try to buy the SB / Breville new rather than a secondhand anything. Oh, lesser SBs (i.e. 440 or whatever) tend to be far more hit and miss in the quality in the cuppa. As you are rural I would regard the 480 / 500 as a minimum

    3) P/fs - AFAIAC using a standard commercial sized p/f & non pressurised basket is essential. Going naked / bottomless p/f is a good idea to hone your technique - and IMO makes a better cuppa than bashing the crema through spouts - YMMV.

    Hope this helps

    TampIt
    Hi TampIt,

    Thanks for your reply. Greatly appreciated.

    So, over the weekend I bought a brand new (Myer sale) Breville smart grinder pro for $159 delivered. Thought this a good starting point, and has I've seen second hand ones go for more, prob not much to lose if I decide to get something else.

    Now I'm flip flopping on which direction to go.

    I can currently get a good used SB 7000 for $290. This seems like a good deal. However I fear I might find myself wanting something more very soon.
    Second idea is to just get something better now, that will likely last longer. However this is where I run into trouble. But this might not be a discussion to have here, but more the $1500 forum.

    I'd consider getting a HX or even DB machine if I thought it would be a little simpler for my partner to use. And quicker for us both. That is once grinds etc are set up.

    I looked at these models that look like they would fit the bill.
    Lelit PL91T
    Oscar 2

    But I'm starting to feel like I'm going down a rabbit hole.

    Thanks again.

    Cheers
    Jamie

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeroyC View Post
    I’ll second Tampit’s comments above. The reason Sunbeam 6910s and 7000s die is because people don’t look after them. I’ve bought 6 supposedly broken Sunbeam EM6910s in the last year or so and have been able to get 4 functioning machines out of them. Every single one of them was in a disgustingly dirty state and I certainly wouldn’t have wanted to be drinking coffee made with them. Most of them actually only needed a really thorough and deep clean to get going again, but I replaced seals and occasionally valves, knobs, buttons and group head collars too.
    So whatever you buy make sure you clean it. I’ve also refurbished two Gaggia Classics that were in the same state. They’ll probably hung in there a little longer than a Sunbeam as they’re a bit less fragile but they’ll also die if not kept clean. In fact you can kill just about any level of machine this way so it’s really key.
    Also are you talking about new or second hand? I don’t think you’ll get a new Gaggia Classic and a grinder for $600. Plus it’ll be the new iteration of the Classic with the stainless boiler and different internals to the far superior old version. You should still be able to buy the Sunbeam starter package on eBay for about $550ish. It’s called the PU6910 and includes the EM6910 machine and EM0450 grinder. It’s a good starting point within your budget and the 6910 is way more user friendly than the Gaggia Classic if you want your wife to be able to use it.
    Other than that your $600 budget might get you a lower level Breville like a BES870 or you’re looking at second hand options. There’s occasionally some good second hand machines here on Coffee Snobs for that price, but you’ll need to be patient and be happy to buy a used machine obviously. Hope this all helps a little.
    Hi LeroyC,

    Thanks for your thoughts and advice also.

    I'm not certain now which way to go. Please see the reply I made to Tampit....

    Cheers
    Jamie

  11. #11
    Senior Member LeroyC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wilsonj View Post
    Hi TampIt,

    Thanks for your reply. Greatly appreciated.

    So, over the weekend I bought a brand new (Myer sale) Breville smart grinder pro for $159 delivered. Thought this a good starting point, and has I've seen second hand ones go for more, prob not much to lose if I decide to get something else.

    Now I'm flip flopping on which direction to go.

    I can currently get a good used SB 7000 for $290. This seems like a good deal. However I fear I might find myself wanting something more very soon.
    Second idea is to just get something better now, that will likely last longer. However this is where I run into trouble. But this might not be a discussion to have here, but more the $1500 forum.

    I'd consider getting a HX or even DB machine if I thought it would be a little simpler for my partner to use. And quicker for us both. That is once grinds etc are set up.

    I looked at these models that look like they would fit the bill.
    Lelit PL91T
    Oscar 2

    But I'm starting to feel like I'm going down a rabbit hole.

    Thanks again.

    Cheers
    Jamie
    Youíre already down the rabbit hole. Welcome. Itís fun down here.

    You would be more than happy with either of the Lelit or Nuova Simonelli.
    wilsonj likes this.

  12. #12
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    If you want to stay in the lower price bracket, I can vouch for the Sunbeam EM6910. While it's not going to be as fancy as the bigger boys, it will last for a good while if you care for it (as TampIt and Leroy said above). I've had mine since 2007 - collar is well worn (but I've shimmed it so still seals) and I've replaced the steam and brew pumps over that time. The machine was relatively cheap (esp given it included the half-decent 0480 grinder), easy to use and maintain, and is pretty cheap and simple to make repairs (like the pumps) yourself. In eleven years, it's cost me less than $200 to maintain (cleaning, seals, pumps).

    Summary: It makes a decent cuppa (esp if you like milk-based drinks but espresso is also pretty good), is easy and cheap to run and maintain, and should last you a decent amount of time while you hone your technique and save up to eventually upgrade to a HX or DB. I'd wager many here on CS probably started their journey with a Sunbeam - nothing to be ashamed of!
    wilsonj likes this.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by wilsonj View Post
    Hi TampIt,

    Thanks for your reply. Greatly appreciated.

    So, over the weekend I bought a brand new (Myer sale) Breville smart grinder pro for $159 delivered. Thought this a good starting point, and has I've seen second hand ones go for more, prob not much to lose if I decide to get something else.

    Now I'm flip flopping on which direction to go.

    I can currently get a good used SB 7000 for $290. This seems like a good deal. However I fear I might find myself wanting something more very soon.
    Second idea is to just get something better now, that will likely last longer. However this is where I run into trouble. But this might not be a discussion to have here, but more the $1500 forum.

    I'd consider getting a HX or even DB machine if I thought it would be a little simpler for my partner to use. And quicker for us both. That is once grinds etc are set up.

    I looked at these models that look like they would fit the bill.
    Lelit PL91T
    Oscar 2

    But I'm starting to feel like I'm going down a rabbit hole.

    Thanks again.

    Cheers
    Jamie
    G'day Jamie

    FWIW, if I were to buy any "above 6910" espresso machine (and no, although it is a lot quieter I do not regard the 7000 as better) it would be the Decent DE"xxx" - hopefully as soon as they make one that froths milk at the same time as it pulls a shot. That is essential for me personally as I do not have room for a second machine in this micro kitchen. However when my new building is finished I will probably use my 6910 as a milk frother and use the Decent as the shot machine - unless the Decent can finally do both at once. Back to the past - for 10+ years I used a manual lever Electra as the shot machine and a Silvia (much later a 110V and 220V GS3) as the milk frother (sob - divorce casualties). If I was awake the Electra slaughtered the others for "in the cuppa taste", however it demands full concentration and does not use standard baskets... the perfect machine is still out there somewhere just waiting to be made... Meanwhile IMO the Decent is the ONLY machine out there that can possibly equal / surpass a manual lever (hopefully even when half asleep first thing in the morning).

    $159 new for your grinder is a true bargain - well snaffled!

    Unlike most of the CS posters I started learning on a big old La Cimbali and have used / lived with far too many machines and grinders over the years. I still reckon I would rather have a better grinder and a mediocre machine than the other way around.

    TampIt
    wilsonj likes this.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by TampIt View Post
    G'day Jamie

    FWIW, if I were to buy any "above 6910" espresso machine (and no, although it is a lot quieter I do not regard the 7000 as better) it would be the Decent DE"xxx" - hopefully as soon as they make one that froths milk at the same time as it pulls a shot. That is essential for me personally as I do not have room for a second machine in this micro kitchen. However when my new building is finished I will probably use my 6910 as a milk frother and use the Decent as the shot machine - unless the Decent can finally do both at once. Back to the past - for 10+ years I used a manual lever Electra as the shot machine and a Silvia (much later a 110V and 220V GS3) as the milk frother (sob - divorce casualties). If I was awake the Electra slaughtered the others for "in the cuppa taste", however it demands full concentration and does not use standard baskets... the perfect machine is still out there somewhere just waiting to be made... Meanwhile IMO the Decent is the ONLY machine out there that can possibly equal / surpass a manual lever (hopefully even when half asleep first thing in the morning).

    $159 new for your grinder is a true bargain - well snaffled!

    Unlike most of the CS posters I started learning on a big old La Cimbali and have used / lived with far too many machines and grinders over the years. I still reckon I would rather have a better grinder and a mediocre machine than the other way around.

    TampIt
    Wow those Decent machines are different, and expensive! If I had the money I'd probably buy one though, I know people that know me would think this a perfect solution! But not this time around, but hey thanks for showing me something completely different.

    At the moment I'm now leaning towards a Expobar office control. What I like is that it is HX, quick for multiple lattes, narrow chassis and has some presets. These I think would be handy for my partner.
    What I would have liked is a pressure gauge, but I guess not essential.

    Otherswise the Lelit PL60, however with no presets it would mean my partner knowing when to stop the shot.

    Any thoughts on these ?

    Cheers
    Jamie

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    Hi RavenMad,

    Thanks for the suggestions. Seems the 6910 is very well regarded.

    For me it's not so much spending the money, as wasting it. If that makes sense? Happy to spend the money on a machine that everyone is happy with, does the job and lasts many years. Less so on buying multiple cheaper machines only to be a little disappointed.

    Cheers
    Jamie

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by wilsonj View Post
    Otherswise the Lelit PL60, however with no presets it would mean my partner knowing when to stop the shot.
    pulling the shot into a measuring glass (like the rhinowares double spout shot glass) works fine if you're not weighing dose or the shot (which i recommend you do for consistency). but yeah can understand if you or your partner can't be arsed.
    wilsonj likes this.

  17. #17
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    Thanks woodhouse for your advice.

    Update, I have spouse approval for the Expobar Office Control. As it has buttons!

    Not sure there is any other machine out there around that price that offers this. They all rely on the user to stop the shot, from what I have found.

  18. #18
    Senior Member LeroyC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TampIt View Post
    G'day Jamie

    FWIW, if I were to buy any "above 6910" espresso machine (and no, although it is a lot quieter I do not regard the 7000 as better) it would be the Decent DE"xxx" - hopefully as soon as they make one that froths milk at the same time as it pulls a shot. That is essential for me personally as I do not have room for a second machine in this micro kitchen. However when my new building is finished I will probably use my 6910 as a milk frother and use the Decent as the shot machine - unless the Decent can finally do both at once. Back to the past - for 10+ years I used a manual lever Electra as the shot machine and a Silvia (much later a 110V and 220V GS3) as the milk frother (sob - divorce casualties). If I was awake the Electra slaughtered the others for "in the cuppa taste", however it demands full concentration and does not use standard baskets... the perfect machine is still out there somewhere just waiting to be made... Meanwhile IMO the Decent is the ONLY machine out there that can possibly equal / surpass a manual lever (hopefully even when half asleep first thing in the morning).

    $159 new for your grinder is a true bargain - well snaffled!

    Unlike most of the CS posters I started learning on a big old La Cimbali and have used / lived with far too many machines and grinders over the years. I still reckon I would rather have a better grinder and a mediocre machine than the other way around.

    TampIt
    Decent Espresso have just made some ĎCAFEí models available for purchase Tampit. These can steam and brew simultaneously. Last I heard they were going to require plumbing, but Iím not fully up to date with the details.
    TampIt likes this.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeroyC View Post
    Decent Espresso have just made some ‘CAFE’ models available for purchase Tampit. These can steam and brew simultaneously. Last I heard they were going to require plumbing, but I’m not fully up to date with the details.
    G'day LeroyC

    Thanks for that. I have just sent Decent an email to confirm whether it will finally do both at once - perhaps my wait is over...
    Ironically, the shipping will be almost at the same time as my new build with (finally) a decent sized kitchen (pun half intentional). I may well buy one anyway.

    TampIt
    LeroyC likes this.

  20. #20
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Posts
    39
    Found the Lelit Elizabeth today. Seems to tick all the boxes, however it is likely to be far more than I had planned on spending.

    I might actually be better off buying a Sunbeam 6910 and make do for 6-12 months. Let the Elizabeth come and and see what it is like, then possibly upgrade. I'd be happier with the looks of that over the Expobar Office.
    And who knows, something else might come out in the mean time.

  21. #21
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Posts
    39
    Just an update. Settled on a good second hand bes920. This should more than cover my needs, and funny enough meets most of my requirements as well.

    Thanks for all the help and advice. Can't wait to start my new coffee adventure!

    Cheers
    Jamie

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