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Thread: Question about Ristretto and Espresso

  1. #1
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    Question about Ristretto and Espresso

    Hello

    First of all i have pressurized basket

    I start my stopwatch (after pre-infusion), and count 25-30 sec for Espresso and 15 for Ristretto from the first drip of coffee hitting the cup... is this correct? sometime the coffee become bitter or sour, but sometime its become normal taste..

    Is this method correct?

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    Member hunty's Avatar
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    Not sure if this would come under Entry level brewing equipment, anyway I have started having a play with ristretto as well, I go for volume as well as time, which requires a finer grind and may be problematic with a pressurized basket. Ive been shooting for 20-30 ml in approx 20 sec (trying different volumes to see what the results are like).I sometimes make a milk based drink in a 190ml cup.

    I forgot to add that I use a double shot of coffee grinds when I make my ristretto.

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    Senior Member level3ninja's Avatar
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    Measure weight of beans in (dose) and weight of coffee out (yield). Dose:Yield ratios typical for the following
    Ristretto - 1:1
    Espresso - 1:2

    Both of them should be achieved in whatever amount of time tastes best. Use 25-35 seconds as a starting guide. Different beans will produce different tastes at different ratios, some good some bad. I can't imagine a 20s shot tasting particularly balanced.
    simonsk8r, cafelazio and ovonate like this.

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    Member hunty's Avatar
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    Im not sure I would know what balanced tasted like, but I either like it or I don't like it. Straight amature I guess.

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    Senior Member level3ninja's Avatar
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    Yeah, don't let me tell you what tastes good! In my limited experience balanced always tastes best. Balanced just means that all the different flavour components are in sync. A 20s shot is much more likely to be underextracted and therefore have too much of the extremely sour, face-sucking flavours.

    Though thinking about it, that wouldn't be too far off how I used to run by old Breville BES800. I think primarily due to the grinder not going fine enough, but can't test now as the machine is long gone from my hands.

    It would be a very interesting experiment to go back to some of the equipment I used early on with the knowledge and experience I have now, and especially with the quality of beans I'm using now. I feel like the equipment wasn't as much the weak link in the chain as I used to think
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    Member hunty's Avatar
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    Yeah I think Im picking up what your putting down.
    I reckon the biggest things that have done it for me is A- beans (I only really go for Ethiopian, always seemed to taste good, and then once I learned from a coffee podcast that "Southwest Ethiopia’s forests are the center of wild coffee’s genetic diversity, giving it rare scientific and cultural value" the deal was sealed) and B- Grinder, i picked up a second hand anfim super lusso for around the $60 mark if i remember correctly (total impulse buy, had no idea about it at all) and couldnt believe how much of a difference it made compared to the breville grinder I was using at the time.

    Ive got a couple of coffee machines now, boema Heat exchanger single group and a rancilio silvia. I reckon a lever machine is the bucket list coffee machine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by level3ninja View Post
    Yeah, don't let me tell you what tastes good! In my limited experience balanced always tastes best. Balanced just means that all the different flavour components are in sync. A 20s shot is much more likely to be underextracted and therefore have too much of the extremely sour, face-sucking flavours.

    Though thinking about it, that wouldn't be too far off how I used to run by old Breville BES800. I think primarily due to the grinder not going fine enough, but can't test now as the machine is long gone from my hands.

    It would be a very interesting experiment to go back to some of the equipment I used early on with the knowledge and experience I have now, and especially with the quality of beans I'm using now. I feel like the equipment wasn't as much the weak link in the chain as I used to think
    Thank you dear friend

    Now the question is, when should I start my stopwatch? after first time i press pump power button? or after pre-infusion, or from the first drip of coffee hitting the cup??

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    Member hunty's Avatar
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    First drip hitting the cup is how I roll

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    Senior Member level3ninja's Avatar
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    I start it when I press the button.

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    Quote Originally Posted by level3ninja View Post
    I start it when I press the button.
    So do I L3N...the accepted norm is to time the total shot from the get go.
    And for many reasons.
    Your moving into the area of extraction (%) / yield & shot duration.
    Taste wraps it all up. And what your chasing is a shot ...however the finished beverage is presented
    Is such that after each sip you can't resist taking another. And then....can't resist another cup.

    Tips hunty are :
    Record / note everything.
    Pre infusion time I consider important as it's the
    First indicator that the batista has matched
    The bean / dose / grind / tamp to the machine.

    A recipe to consider is - mid roast blend.
    20g dose, 32 - 34 sec shot, 6-8sec PI, 30- 34g Shot out.
    *A quality matched tamper comes well and truly into play at this finer level of puck setup.
    Ps research puck height / overdosing / shower screen interference.
    GL

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    Quote Originally Posted by level3ninja View Post
    Measure weight of beans in (dose) and weight of coffee out (yield). Dose:Yield ratios typical for the following
    Ristretto - 1:1
    Espresso - 1:2

    Both of them should be achieved in whatever amount of time tastes best. Use 25-35 seconds as a starting guide. Different beans will produce different tastes at different ratios, some good some bad. I can't imagine a 20s shot tasting particularly balanced.
    I'm a bit confused here. Are you saying that both a ristretto and espresso should take the same time to pour? If so, what is the variable that differentiates them - grind?

    I thought that a ristretto was the earlier, more fruity part of the pour, and that the only variable was therefore the time you run the shot for. I am a big amateur at this, so happy to be set straight by anyone that knows more than I do.

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    Senior Member level3ninja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orbost View Post
    I'm a bit confused here. Are you saying that both a ristretto and espresso should take the same time to pour? If so, what is the variable that differentiates them - grind?
    Correct on both counts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Orbost View Post
    I thought that a ristretto was the earlier, more fruity part of the pour, and that the only variable was therefore the time you run the shot for. I am a big amateur at this, so happy to be set straight by anyone that knows more than I do.
    A lot of people do ristrettos that way, but it's not a true ristretto. They do this because in a busy cafe, if you serve 100 coffees an hour maybe 1 or 2 of them will be people ordering ristrettos. It would take a lot of time and wasted beans to adjust the grind and dial in the shot as a ristretto, then you'd have to do it all again to get back to espresso. So in pretty much every cafe if you ask for a ristretto they will just cut the shot early. The first part of the shot is thicker and bolder flavours more like a ristretto, but it's not identical. If you have spare time and beans try dialling everything in at 1:2 in whatever time (e.g. 30s), then cut the shot short so it's only 1:1 (I'm guessing 20s). Do that a couple of times and get used to how it tastes. Then adjust the grind setting finer so you get the same 1:1 but in your original timeframe (in this example 30s). See if you can notice the difference. The ristretto shot will probably be darker and more chocolatey tasting, the espresso cut short will probably be brighter, more acidic and a bit underextracted. To be honest though I'm not sure how much difference there will be with a pressurised basket, still a fun exercise though.
    Dimal, simonsk8r and Orbost like this.

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