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Thread: Ikon vs. 800es

  1. #1
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    Ikon vs. 800es

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    I have owned the Breville Cafe Roma for 18mths and it is dying a slow death, very wet steam. I have been happy with it to date aside from recent problems.

    I am now trying to decide between the Ikon & the 800 series. The Ikon seems to get good comments on this site but cant see much about the 800. Im not sure if its more expensive normally because it outer casing is more robust. Is what inside the same? How do they differ from the Roma I am used to?

    I have always used pre-ground coffee as I dont own a grinder. I have decided I will buy the Breville Bar Aroma. I have seen the 800es with a bonus grinder for $378. I think it will be about the same cost to buy the Ikon & the grinder anyway so basically it will end up being the same cost wise.

    The thing I dont like about both these machines is Breville have changed the design and now you have to pull out the drawer to refill the water reserve. The older style you could refill from a little window at the back. I guess its just an inconvenience but not a huge deal but I am more interested to hear about how these machines compare to the other if anyone knows? I understand my choices arent ideal for the true coffee snob, but its my budget and I am used to pre-ground beans using a Roma machine. Oh I should add that I only use the machine for cappuccino and hot chocolate.
    Thanks,

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    Re: Ikon vs. 800es

    GDay

    Ive owned both the machines you mentioned. *I had the 800 first & replaced it with the Ikon!

    The main difference is that internally the Ikon has a stainless steel boiler where the 800 was a thermoblock. *I found the steaming control & capacity to be better with the Ikon. 8-)

    A couple of other suggestions if you choose either of these!
    [*]Grab yourself a Krups *non-pressurised double basket (around $13)[*]Buy a decent tamper. *I ended up getting one made from Greg Pullman, as the Breville & Sunbeam machines have smaller than normal baskets.[*]I got the Breville grinder free. *Allthough its doing the job at the moment, it is on the finest setting available & if I need to go any finer...Im in trouble! *Do yourself a favour & get a better quality grinder straight off

    Andrew

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    Re: Ikon vs. 800es

    Yep,

    Id reckon the Ikon is the pick between the two as well 8-). My eldest son owns an Ikon and it provides him with excellent coffee. Dont know why Breville went back to t/blocks with the up-market 800 series, definitely a backward step from coffee snobs point of view.... :-?

    Mal.

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    Re: Ikon vs. 800es

    Quote Originally Posted by Mal link=1196842795/0#2 date=1196862767
    Yep,

    Id reckon the Ikon is the pick between the two as well 8-). My eldest son owns an Ikon and it provides him with excellent coffee. Dont know why Breville went back to t/blocks with the up-market 800 series, definitely a backward step from coffee snobs point of view.... :-?

    Mal.
    Mal, I dont think the t/blocks is the issue.. its the fact its 100% alluminium that bothers me. It is electronically temp controlled. Either way, the 800 series has a semi-plastic group head! BAD, especially of its the "flagship" premium model. The Ikon has more metal in the Group design and would handle more wear and tear. The only issue I have with the Ikon (considering its price) is the very light Group Handle. If Breville could get the Group handle from the 800 series and use it in the Ikon would be a good thing!

    The Group is so often overlooked in these cheaper machines!

    Get yourself a decent grinder!

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    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    Re: Ikon vs. 800es

    Quote Originally Posted by MarcS link=1196842795/0#3 date=1196893858
    Mal, I dont think the t/blocks is the issue.. its the fact its 100% alluminium that bothers me. It is electronically temp controlled. Either way, the 800 series has a semi-plastic group head! BAD, especially of its the "flagship" premium model.
    Well, what I really meant was the t/blocks being used by this particular machine which are, as you say, 100% aluminium and cause for concern. Just seems to be a strange thing to do with what is apparently their flagship model.... quite apart from its other shortcomings :-?,

    Mal.

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    Re: Ikon vs. 800es

    So true Mal... and given there new version of the 800 series that retails for around the same price as the EM6910 - it is a rip off and con job!
    http://www.breville.com.au/800Profes...s.asp?prod=438

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    Re: Ikon vs. 800es

    THANKS ALL ...
    I am now the proud new owner of an Ikon. Havent tried it yet, just fresh out of the box. I hope it lives up to its good name and makes some nice thick glossy milk. I also got the Bar Aroma grinder free, I know its not ideal but its within budget and surely has to be better than no grinder at all which is my current situation.

    I could of got the 800 for only another $30-40 and a part of me was saying to get it, the shop assistants have all said its the better model but they are IMO judging on the outside appearance (less plastic) and group handle. She said the thermoblocks were better its what all machines use etc. To me the outside appearance doesnt mean the coffee is better and I cant help but wonder if the 800 is just the Roma repackaged and glorified a little. One of the aussie review sites has hardly any review son the Ikon and a ton of favourable ones on the 800 so I really was torn but I have read so much about the Ikon here so I trusted the snobs and hopefully it has been a good decision.

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    Re: Ikon vs. 800es

    Quote Originally Posted by LikeMyCoffee link=1196842795/0#6 date=1197248133
    I cant help but wonder if the 800 is just the Roma repackaged and glorified a little.
    You hit the nail on the head there... although the Group Handle is decent.

    Enjoy your new toy... and dont get discouraged if you dont get the milk right straight away... it takes a bit of practice... but once you nail it, forever youll nail it :-)

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    Re: Ikon vs. 800es

    OK interesting comment about the milk. Do you mean with regard to the Ikon or frothing milk in general?

    I just made a cup using my left over preground GJs. (I know I know) but talking strictly frothing here, my milk was quite watery, no thick texture like I could get on the Roma. I removed the frothing attachment thingy. I was surprised the Ikon took about twice as long to heat the milk as the Roma therefore my previous technique probably wont work. I need to learn a different frothing method.

    Normally I put the tip just below the surface, near the edge and angled outwards. When the whirlpool starts (few seconds) I slowly lower the jug so the want is on the surface of the milk, until about 40deg and then plunge arm into the milk and swirl wrist around. I notice with the Ikon however, I think I need to spend more time lowering the jug as the temperature hadnt even started to rise when the volume had been increased significantly, everything seemed so much slower. I dont mind about the time taken but I dont like watery milk so I have to change something in my technique.

    I might be best reading over the Ikon thread again to see if milk frothing is discussed and posting in there.

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    Re: Ikon vs. 800es

    Remember, this is a boiler machine, the Roma was a TB. Given the same element power, my guess is it will take longer to heat up ~150ml of water in a stainless steel boiler than 10ml of water in an aluminum thermoblock even considering the larger mass of metal.

    Make sure you bleed the steam wand before starting, and another tip is to open the steam knob before it gets to temperature to allow a bit of room for steam to develop. I cant say I do this often with my Silvia but some swear by it; one day Ill compare if it makes a difference! Your technique sounds OK but without seeing it all the way its hard to say. But generally speaking if youve got adequate steam pressure which you should in a boiler machine, more stretch = more air = less watery milk. The wand is probably different to that on the Roma so that could be affecting things, steam tip hole size, etc.

    Greg

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    Re: Ikon vs. 800es

    Thanks Greg, yes I did bleed the steam wand, the instructions were quite clear on that so I was sure to follow. Im not sure I understand what you mean about opening the steam knob before it gets to temperature, oh you mean while the machine itself is heating up and not set to steam to just open the knob ??

    The wand is very different to that on the Roma. I hope its just a learning curve and before long I will be making some nice thick glossy milk.


  12. #12
    nBC
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    Re: Ikon vs. 800es

    LMC- a little irrelevant, but how much did pay for the combo. i plan to upgrade from a cafe roma when i find the right deal. As this seems good bang for buck- But havent found the combo for the "under $300" mentioned elsewhere on the forum. Unless they meant under $400??

    might have to start a new thread?? 8-)

    thanks.

    dave

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    Re: Ikon vs. 800es

    $280 Harvey Norman for both.
    Basically I went in there (knowing no bonus deals were running at the moment) and said that Retravision and Good Guys and few others are running promos with the grinder which they are and I wondered if it were a Breville promo or what the deal was. Anyway was told they had no deals on them at present but if she could rustle me up a grinder for free would I be keen. Yup. So off she went out the back and found a grinder. I think Breville allocate a certain amount to stores as bonus deals and maybe this was a left over one from when the previous promo ran.

    The 800 shelf price is currently on special $334 (cheapest Ive seen yet, $399 good guys this week) and the Ikon is $295 (I swear I saw the Ikon for $199 recently but couldnt remember where). She said I could take my pick which machine for the bundle and ended up giving me the Ikon & BCG450 for $280.

    I did read some other posts from here mid year that mentioned the Ikon bundle for about $250 but havent seen anything close to that of late and I was getting kinda desperate for something new and have been shopping around with prices the past few weeks.

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    Re: Ikon vs. 800es

    LMC: once youve brewed the coffee and hit the steam switch to start heating it up to steam temp, open the knob and let a bit of water dribble out. You should hear the boiler start to boil a bit when you do that, and thats creating a bit of headroom for the steam to hang around in, rather than having a boiler 100% full of superheated water and no steam.

    If you still get stuck you may like to post a video of what youre doing or tell us what area you live in in case any nearby snobs can help out.

    Greg

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    Re: Ikon vs. 800es

    OK I see now, thanks. Ill give it a try.
    The video is a good idea too so if things dont improve I might look at doing that.

  16. #16
    nBC
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    Re: Ikon vs. 800es

    She said I could take my pick which machine for the bundle and ended up giving me the Ikon & BCG450 for $280.
    geez thats cheap. or maybe our local HN are just criminals. Anyway thanks for the reply.

    Dave.

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    Re: Ikon vs. 800es

    NBC Target currently have the IKON & Grinder bundle in their latest catalogue for this week. $299.

  18. #18
    nBC
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    Re: Ikon vs. 800es

    one Ikon +BCG450 in santas sack with my name on it 8-) Wife went into Harveys and asked for the deal. Sales girl essentially turned her nose up and said no way. Which considering all the hype they always seem to carry on with in the media about unbeatable deals etc is very dissappointing. >:(
    Anyway Joyce Mayne were happy with $280 for both. ;D

    just hoping the krups baskets show up before chrissy :-[

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    Re: Ikon vs. 800es

    congratulations nbc, make sure you come join us over in the Ikon thread once you open your pressie and we can share techniques as we both experiment. No peeking before Christmas.

    To be honest I was surprised Harveys did the deal for me. I think it was just that they had some left over bonus machines from earlier deals out the back and thats why I got it. She didnt take one from stock off the shelves, she went for one out the back. I know that Good Guys have all their bonus machines and stock machines separate and the bonus machines are marked as such.

    I havent ordered the Krups baskets yet. Im sticking with the Ikon ones for now. I want to get my milk perfected first then Ill tackle improving elsewhere although I was reading in the other thread the grinder may be pushing it to grind fine enough for the Krups baskets? At the moment, I have my grind set to between Espresso and Turkish for the Ikon baskets, I havent timed yet but I think I could even knock it back finer.



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