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Thread: Prosumer or full commercial machine?

  1. #1
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    Prosumer or full commercial machine?

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Gday All,

    Just signed up to CS after much time looking at all the banter. *Im very impressed with your forum.

    Im a home user - currently have a sunbeam cafe series which has just packed it in - good excuse to upgrade.

    Ive done a barista course but thats it, Im want to take my abilities to the next level with a better machine. *Im looking for a single group head machine.

    Im over here in the West and Perth is quite limited in terms of machine suppliers.

    I was in one of them today and have a few options:

    Diadema Junior Lever
    La Cimbali Junior S
    La Cimbali Junior D
    La Cimbali Junior D used

    Significant price differences between those listed above. *First up Im trying to decide whether to go for a HX prosumer machine or full commercial like the Cimbali. *Ive read plenty of good reviews on the Cimbali. *Im not so constrained on budget so like the idea of going for something which will be the last one I buy rather than having to upgrade in 3-5 years but I want to make sure its worth the extra 1-1.5K. *Im up for the challenge of a less forgiving machine and want my abilities to grow with it but will I still get this with something like the Diadema?

    Also, plumbed or not plumbed? *I really like the idea of plumbed and have timber bench tops but I hear about in-line filters and pressure regulators and I start putting it in the too hard basket - any thoughts? *The La Cimbali S has a tank and the D is plumbed. *Also the D has a rotary pump as opposed to the piston pump in the S - is this just to keep the noise down or is rotary the way to go?

    Lastly - used or new? *The used Cimbali looks in good nick - only made ristrettos by an old lady on a sunday and all that - ha ha - nah but seriously it looks good and the guy is going to service it and offer a 6 month warranty - is this a realistic way to go or should I just go for new.

    Are there any other machines I should be looking at altogether?

    Apologies for the barrage of questions straight off - looking forward to your advice.

    Cheers,

    James


  2. #2
    Senior Member Koffee_Kosmo's Avatar
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    Re: Prosumer or full commercial machine?

    Quote Originally Posted by 7B704E76787D7C110 link=1236865499/0#0 date=1236865499
    Lastly - used or new?The used Cimbali looks in good nick - only made ristrettos by an old lady on a sunday and all that - ha ha - nah but seriously it looks good and the guy is going to service it and offer a 6 month warranty - is this a realistic way to go or should I just go for new.
    I think the La Cimbalis sell for around $4,000 new
    If the used machine is in good condition and a good price that would be my pick and use the rest of the funds for a great grinder & the La Cimbali deserves a good grinder

    I read somewhere possibly from Javaphile that the La Cimbali machines are built like a tank

    KK

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    Re: Prosumer or full commercial machine?

    If you can plumb a machine do it, it will be the best decision you ever make and is not at all difficult. The biggest gain in my opinion comes not from having to stop refilling a tank, it comes from the waste side and being able to flush, rinse cups, etc etc without a care about a rotten tray overflowing. The other plus is that you may be able to tap into the filtered water for "free" drinking water, something to consider given Perths water.

    Pete

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    Re: Prosumer or full commercial machine?

    Id go the cimbali Junior D. Be careful I have seen them advertised before, but with vibe pump not rotary - so check it. Like Pete says, i think to be able to plumb in, and drain drip tray is a big adbvantage that makes everything lots easier. the plumbing connections arent hard, and if you cant do it yourself, get a plumber. Even if you have to pay someone to do it, I think for convenient use of the machine it is well worth it.

    damian.

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    Re: Prosumer or full commercial machine?

    Damian, KK, Pete,

    Thanks for the feedback!

    Cheers,

    James

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    Re: Prosumer or full commercial machine?

    The shots that I have had from the BFC machines have generally been nicer than the shots that I have had from Cimbalis. In fact, I cant actually remember ever having had a nice shot from a Cimbali.

    Im sure that you can get whatever machine you want in Perth; Talk Coffee will ship anywhere. Five Senses sell Isomacs, I think.

    Cheers,

    Luca

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    TC
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    Re: Prosumer or full commercial machine?

    Quote Originally Posted by 726B7D7F1E0 link=1236865499/5#5 date=1236925672
    The shots that I have had from the BFC machines have generally been nicer than the shots that I have had from Cimbalis. *In fact, I cant actually remember ever having had a nice shot from a Cimbali. *

    Im sure that you can get whatever machine you want in Perth; Talk Coffee will ship anywhere. *Five Senses sell Isomacs, I think.

    Cheers,

    Luca
    I think I agree with you Luca,

    The Cimbali is well built but I reckon they run a tad hot out of the box. I am sure they can be tweaked though.

    An option if it can be plumbed is a prosumer machine with inbuilt rotary pump like the Giotto Professional, Bezzera Domus Galatea, Minore III or similar.

    I had a play with the Giotto Professional a couple of weeks ago...Very nice! 8-)

    2mcm

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    Re: Prosumer or full commercial machine?

    James;

    If you are considering plum-in machine another machine you should look is the Bezzera BZ40 this machine has 2 x 1450 Watt elements and a 3.4L boiler and rotary pump. This machine is not as good looking as the Giotto or Domus, but is build to last for ever.

    http://www.dibartoli.com.au/product_details.asp?pid=38


    Regards

    Renzo

  9. #9
    Senior Member Koffee_Kosmo's Avatar
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    Re: Prosumer or full commercial machine?

    Quote Originally Posted by 55784E537063657E7D78110 link=1236865499/7#7 date=1236930465
    James;

    If you are considering plum-in machine another machine you should look is the Bezzera BZ40 this machine has 2 x 1450 Watt elements and a 3.4L boiler and rotary pump. *This machine is not as good looking as the Giotto or Domus, but is build to last for ever.

    http://www.dibartoli.com.au/product_details.asp?pid=38


    Regards

    Renzo
    And Bezzera give that wonderful guarantee
    Of 50% TRADE-IN VALUE IN 5 YEARS & Lifetime Support

    KK

  10. #10
    Super Moderator Javaphile's Avatar
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    Re: Prosumer or full commercial machine?

    Quote Originally Posted by 486C656566665C486C706E6C030 link=1236865499/1#1 date=1236867290
    I read somewhere possibly from Javaphile that the La Cimbali machines are built like a tank
    Indeed they are. My M28 2gr is now some 20 or so years old. I bought it over 4 years ago and did a complete tear down, descale, and rebuild on it. Since then it has only needed the usual replacement (every one to two years) of the group seals, and the valves o-rings/washers.

    The machine runs 24/7 for 6-8 months of the year and only occasionally in the remaining 4-6 months. The machine has given me trouble free exactly repeatable shots for over 4 years (on top of the 13-17 years of prior service in a cafe where it was badly abused) and is a true work horse. One which I see as probably outlasting me given minimal on-going maintenance.

    Quote Originally Posted by 316E76606B606C656566666E626D030 link=1236865499/6#6 date=1236926603
    The Cimbali is well built but I reckon they run a tad hot out of the box. I am sure they can be tweaked though.
    They do indeed run a tad hot for home use out of the box as they are designed and set up for non-stop use in a cafe type setting. Its an easy matter to drop the temp/pressure in them though. :)

    I recon that if you buy a semi-auto (no electronics just simple switches and relays) Cimbali youll never need to buy another machine in your lifetime. :)


    Java "Can you tell I still like my Cimbali?" phile

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    Re: Prosumer or full commercial machine?

    Thanks guys for all the feedback!

    Cheers,

    James

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    Re: Prosumer or full commercial machine?

    Ive worked on both "pro-sumer" La Cimb Junior and and Diad Junior machines.

    My own opinion from a straight out technical point of view :
    The La Cimballi is needlessly over built. This adds cost, and is at odds to the prime objective which is overall peformance of the machine, not how heavy the dang thing can be made. Its very old style, not that theres anything wrong with that, but it can make the machine hard to work on (the way its put together etc).

    The other Junior (Diad) is also very well built but not needlessly overbuilt. Internally there is a much more modern overall design approach. It comes apart easily for service. Its not as heavy as the other but as others have said I think its a better performer (coffee maker).

    Either will last for decades in the hands of a caring owner so after youve spent the money, the only thing that matters is the type of coffee the machine produces and how easy it will be to service down the track.

    For my hard earned, Id go the Diadema Junior.

    Oh and did you mention water connection?????? Forget it, and the endless discussions about whether a rotary is better than a vibrating solenoid pump. Buy the water tank model and take it on holidays with you every year instead of having to leave it at home.

    Lastly, buy local, thats how you will get the best ongoing service in WA.


  13. #13
    Senior Member ozscott's Avatar
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    Re: Prosumer or full commercial machine?

    I would never go back to a tank and drain tray with no plumbing....and for hollidays I take the EM6910 or if camping for a short time just the stove top and plunger. It is a personal thing, but when I make, as I usually do at home, 10 coffees a day and when friends come over 10 coffees every 30 mins it has to be plumbed in for me now.


    Cheers

    (PS I also use the hot water wand for all my tea pot filling and vege water etc, so for me it is a necessity for a plumbed machine, but even for coffees only I doubt I could go back...using the EM6910 at work is fine tanked ;D but only when Im doing 4 coffees a day (and then the problem is speed of texturing compared to the commercial).

  14. #14
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    Re: Prosumer or full commercial machine?

    Youve been spoilt Oz.... ;D

    Mal.

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    Senior Member ozscott's Avatar
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    Re: Prosumer or full commercial machine?

    I think I am Mal :) i didnt think of it that way, but your right....who would have thought when I started with the Sunbeam Ristretto and pre-ground coffee...

    Cheers
    Oz

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    Sleep is overrated Thundergod's Avatar
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    Re: Prosumer or full commercial machine?

    Quote Originally Posted by 614C484449250 link=1236865499/13#13 date=1237624477
    Youve been spoilt Oz.... ;D

    Mal.
    I agree.
    I was reading your post and thinking that my Expobars 2 litre tank and drip tray goes a long way to not needing a plumbed / drained option, but 10 coffees every 30 minutes? :o

  17. #17
    Super Moderator Javaphile's Avatar
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    Re: Prosumer or full commercial machine?

    With an always on plumbed in machine with a large boiler one will very quickly become spoiled. The instant availability of the hot water for everything from tea, to pasta, to giving a mug a quick rinse spoils one rotten. :) When I turn my Cimbali off for the summer season thats what I miss most.


    Java "Speaking from experience!" phile

  18. #18
    Senior Member ozscott's Avatar
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    Re: Prosumer or full commercial machine?

    ;D Not all the time TG...but when they arrive in large numbers its a lot of fun to work the machine. Cheers



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