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Thread: Boema Group 2 vs San Marino group 2- I need help!!!

  1. #1
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    Boema Group 2 vs San Marino group 2- I need help!!!

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Hey all, I need some help with a machine upgrade for my drive through coffee shop.

    i started trading 2 weeks ago with an old Nuova Simonelli and its slow as a turtle on valium and looses pressure after making 3 coffees in a row and its just bad news.

    So ive had a chat to a few people in the last day and I can get my hands on a 3 year old San marino 2 group for around $2,000.

    Or a Boema 2 group and Boema grinder Ag64( the Barista choice) for around $3,000.

    I need a machine quick sticks that can keep up and need to know what to go with. (keeping in mind that I only can spend around $3000)

    I know the San Marino isnt that great, but it will get get the job done for the next 6mths-1year . but i have no clue about the Boema.

    lend me your advice please. im all ears....... ;)

    Thanks
    Regards Pat.

  2. #2
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    Re: Boema Group 2 vs San Marino group 2- I need help!!!

    Maybe take the nuova simonelli in for a service? Dont think either of those other brands have a very good reputation.

  3. #3
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    Re: Boema Group 2 vs San Marino group 2- I need help!!!

    I think it will come to availability of parts with 2nd hand machines.
    Boema have a mobile van, so I guess it may be OK if you are in Sydney.

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    Re: Boema Group 2 vs San Marino group 2- I need help!!!

    My Nuova has just had a $900 service, at the moment it pours a fantastic shot, and makes soft silky milk but. but it cant handle the job of multiple coffees, like 4 or 5. the pressure just drops off from 1 to under 0.5.

    i have read a lot of reviews about the SM and the feeling is that they run hot if not tuned properly and you have to purge before, during and after extracting to get clean, non blonde, no burnt shot. but other that that there OK. :o

    Still struggling to find anything on the Boema, expt there Aust made and sell new from $4,500-$6,000 depending on the model.

    any hoo. ill work something out.

    Thanks for the thoughts guys ;)

  5. #5
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    Re: Boema Group 2 vs San Marino group 2- I need help!!!

    Maybe you need to up the pressure in your boiler a bit? It is pretty easy to do yourself (just look up adjusting pressurestat), and should improve things. It may lead to needing more flushes before pouring, but will improve the steam a lot.

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    Re: Boema Group 2 vs San Marino group 2- I need help!!!

    Thanks for that. I have just upped the pressure and now its sitting on around 1.4 bar. Ill see how it goes.
    thanks for the help

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    Re: Boema Group 2 vs San Marino group 2- I need help!!!

    How about this from site sponsor Baratzi: http://www.barazi.com.au/Newsflash/Bezzera-Pre-Loved-2nd-Hand-Machines/ellisse-2-group-2nd-hand-2300

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    Re: Boema Group 2 vs San Marino group 2- I need help!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by 1E393D3203133203083439030E29325C0 link=1242373476/5#5 date=1242474227
    Ill see how it goes.
    Hope it makes the difference. If not, other factors that could affect steam would be boiler probe level, or if you had a bad element. Good luck!

  9. #9
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    Re: Boema Group 2 vs San Marino group 2- I need help!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by 4D6A6E61504061505B676A505D7A610F0 link=1242373476/3#3 date=1242435562
    Still struggling to find anything on the Boema
    Just go to their website.

  10. #10
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    Re: Boema Group 2 vs San Marino group 2- I need help!!!

    Hello & welcome Bean On The Run & congrats on making your first post.

    Sounds like your simonelli may have a faulty electric element. Most machines have a 2 part element, if one of them blows / shorts out you can still work until a replacement arrives but with reduced capacity to recover.....OR, the boiler level may be set way too high so there is little room for steam.

    Suggest you call your service tech to come out again....do you run out and buy a replacement car just because your current one needs service? If its not the element there will be something else that is stopping the thing from doing its job and what you are describing is not normal for a large capacity 2 group machine.

    Also, beware of increasing your boiler pressure especially by such a large amount *(1.1 to 1.4). That increases the working pressure and gives you more steam but it also increases the temperature of the water so you will burn all your coffees very nicely and very badly. Remember, every action has a re-action and you need to be aware of what the possible consequences are b4 fiddling. Increasing boiler pressure above normal setting is never really an answer for anything and only masks some other problem.

    You are in business & therefore you need to call the simonelli or other service tech out to check and fix accordingly.

    The Bo-Ema is capable of making a very nice cup of coffee if in good and well tuned condition although that will also depend on the age and specific model of the machine in question. *Bo-Ema are not hard to find, they are in Sydney and have good service arrangements with iundependent technicians mostly all around Australia, but suggest you exhaust your options with the encumbent machine first (unless you already know it was a mistake in the first place in terms of its relative worth vs age vs condition vs prospect of continuing to do a particular job).

    In any case Bo_Ema has a website, they are in the yellow pages, and in the sydney white pages. Suggest a telephone call is always quicker and more satisfying than surfing the net with the likelihood of not getting a swift enough reply to an email or a website enquiry while you are having a problem that really needs sorting immediately.

    Apologies for calling a spade a spade but...I am attempting to help.

    Regardz,
    Attilio

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    Re: Boema Group 2 vs San Marino group 2- I need help!!!

    well i raised the pressure stat last night and tested it out today and I have to say that I did get a little more steam for a little bit longer, i was able to make about 6-7 coffees without it dropping all the way to 0.5 bar.

    But I did burn the shots, even when I flushed the shower before hand * *( 2-3 secs). So its back to the drawing board.

    I thought that problem was the size of the boiler, but i think that its actually about 9lts. *but the machine is about 20 years old. so im might be expecting to much out of it.


    Anyway thanks for all the advice. I think Im off to buy a new machine anyway.

    I have 4 options.

    1. San Marino *Lisa * * (4 yrs old)
    2. La Chimbelli m28 * (8 yrs old)
    3. Bezzera Ellisse * * (11 yrs old)
    4.San Remo Venezia LX (3 yrs old)

    All 2 groups, and all been surviced recently and seals changed, all between * *
    ($2,000 - $2,300)

    I would love to know your Thoughts. what would you go with??


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    Re: Boema Group 2 vs San Marino group 2- I need help!!!

    Here is a pic of a similar Nuova Simonelli I found, This is the Premier Maxi. The model after mine. But with the same size boiler and insides!


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    Re: Boema Group 2 vs San Marino group 2- I need help!!!

    Back


  14. #14
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    Re: Boema Group 2 vs San Marino group 2- I need help!!!

    Mine is the single push button model. Not This fancy


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    Re: Boema Group 2 vs San Marino group 2- I need help!!!

    Strongly suggest you "align" yourself with your coffee supplier or local service provider and choose an espresso machine that they handle and that they find "easy to support (easy as in due to that they carry the model and its spare parts and have a service back up vehicle at the ready in your area).

    Also for business reasons, no old machines please. To my mind that makes the 11 yo machine out of the race and the 8 y old machine is borderline. Some companies dont hold stocks of spare parts for anything older than 8 years. That means auto fill boxes and CPUs are usually unobtainable for stuff that old.

    I personally would not buy a coffee machine privately (as in evilbay or similar, or private for sale adds) for a business....there are lots of cases where people buy machines in from other areas then have a problem when they need it to be supported in their locality.

    I believe your first port of call should really be your coffee supplier. Look at it this way. Joes Cafe buys a "recommended" machine (say brand Z) from out of area. His coffee supplier handles brand X and has good support for it. Joes machine has a service difficulty somewhere down the track. His suppliers tech staff need to get va spare part for it...they dont have it, its not "their brand". *Everyone is placed under pressure...needlessly.

    Coffee in business is *not like coffee at home.


    Hope this helps,
    Attilio.


  16. #16
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    Re: Boema Group 2 vs San Marino group 2- I need help!!!

    BotR theres a recurring theme to the answers.
    If you go 2nd hand you need to ensure the availability of service/spares.

    Also, ask your coffee supplier if they can arrange a machine.
    They may be able to do a good deal.

  17. #17
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    Re: Boema Group 2 vs San Marino group 2- I need help!!!

    Totally agree with Attilio going with second hand machines is a risk and spare parts can be an issue. You start loosing money very quickly if the machine isnt working. Have you contacted the site sponsors to see if anyone of them has a machine that can get you going?

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    Re: Boema Group 2 vs San Marino group 2- I need help!!!

    Thanks all for the advice peoples,
    I have just purchased the 3 year old San Remo Venezia LX (2 group) and a 1 year old Mazzer supper jolly grinder for just over $1800 and im rapped with it.

    The machine was so dirty inside, so I stripped off its covers and gave it a good detailing all over. An now it looks and runs like brand new.

    The Nuova Simonelli will live out its days in the office making 3 to 4 coffees a day for staff and clients that come to visit.

    Thanks all for the help Coffee Snoberss, I take my bean off to you. :)

    Regards Pat

  19. #19
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    Re: Boema Group 2 vs San Marino group 2- I need help!!!

    Bean on the run, hope for the best plan for the worst, start saving your pennies now for a new machine just in case. How about descaling and group head seals?

    2700 W and 12L boiler sounds a bit small on the power if you are trying to push it.

  20. #20
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    Re: Boema Group 2 vs San Marino group 2- I need help!!!

    Bean on the run - agree with Moto, a 2700W element will struggle to recover when you are busy. Ive fit out a few carts for guys wanting 2-group units - they have asked for reduced element so they can get away with an "overloaded" 10A plug.

    San Marinos can certainly keep up the load if they are in fair or good condition (be careful though because there are lots of them out there on evilbay that have had a very hard life and little service). Some of the SMs Ive put in heat up quite a bit quicker than others from cold and maintain the temp/pressure well - they have a 4800W element.
    As FC said, the older the machine the greater your risk of regular failures. It is also more likely older machines will have scale build-up (everyone has different ideas of what a service is and when it is needed) and results in a less efficient heating system.

    San Marinos can run too hot very easily (8 out of 10 of the machines Ive played with have been like this). SMs are a pretty solid machine (made by CMA, the same company that makes Wega and Astoria) but they do have a pretty unsophisticated group & heat exchange assembly (big chunks of brass bolted on brass). SMs also use a very solid/large capacity external pump motor and rotary vane pump.
    I cant comment on the Boema.
    Expobar (made by Crem in Spain) make good quality machines and are typically cheaper in comparison to many quivalent Italian machines. Expobar spares and support are easily available from the Melbourne importer.
    If you are strapped for cash and forced to buy second hand, another brand you might look at is La Pavoni. They have very good quality internal components, Nickel-plated boiler and group assemblies, quality pipework throughout (youd be surprised at the gauge and finish of all the piping in a LaPav - over engineered), etc. Pedro (Coffeeparts) has LaPav parts. The thing to watch for on LaPavs are cracks and damage on the external bodywork (ABS plastic) as these bits are difficult, inconvenient and expensive to replace.
    FreshCoffees advice is good - hookup with a roaster and they might just give you the machine for free(sort of) if you buy enough coffee off them each week.

    Jeff.





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