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Thread: ECM Veneziano A1 Your Thoughts and Recommendations

  1. #1
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    ECM Veneziano A1 Your Thoughts and Recommendations

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    The Time has come for us to upgrade.

    The chosen unit that I want will be the ECM Veneziano A1

    Looks and having a 2.5 litre boiler and a 2.9 litre tank and the availability of it being easily plumbed in have made it the machine of choice. However at $4250 RRP it hurts but we have been offerd 10% off this so the $3825 is a little better. A 2nd hand unit (demo) was sold earlier this year for $2400

    Now this is where you come in....

    1. what have you heard about these units
    2. what are your thoughts about these units
    3. what would you pay for a 2nd hand unit
    4. do you know where I can get a great deal

    Many thanks in advance

    FB :)

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    Re: ECM Veneziano A1 Your Thoughts and Recommendat

    Ive seen it for sale retail for $3,865 without a discount.

    Ill let the experts comment on it but I reckon it has to be one of the best machines out there. It is a commercial machine that you can use at home, basically. I dont know how you could get a better one in a small package like that and one that lookes as good as that. If you can afford it buy it. You will not be sorry, that is for sure.

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    Re: ECM Veneziano A1 Your Thoughts and Recommendat

    Id contact John Doyle. I think hes got one on the bench in his kitchen.

    They sure are pretty. Id also take a look at this thread http://www.coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1121808257 * :) *Lots of shiney stainless to keep clean.

    IMHO Really nice machine.

    -Stephen-


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    Re: ECM Veneziano A1 Your Thoughts and Recommendat

    You have chosen a very nice machine FB.

    In terms of your question, please allow me to offer the following observations.

    Veneziano I understand, is 1 group electronic controlled machine with a 2.5 litre boiler, and stunning looks.

    This makes it basically, if you & others will permit the analogy, a slightly bigger and electronic version/ brother to the Giotto and other machines in the smaller sized "semi-commercial" market category.

    The prices that have been quoted above both by you and by others may well be correct but they seem unbelievable in terms of the two sentences immediately above, purely from an importer - vendor - service provider & Sponsor to this site perspective.

    Its a lovely machine in its entirety but what I think the Veneziano offers above all else, is great looks.

    So *purely for academic purposes, I wish to advise the Forum that in terms of straight coffee making capacity/performance there are machines around for a much lower prices, with many times the capacity. For example, my own company has what we call a 1 group "compact" espresso machine.

    It has a 7 litre boiler capacity, electronic / volumetric control, electric motor & rotary / impeller water pump, fully commercial water connection (not the kind of connection supplied for machines with vibrating solenoid pumps). And its the same "old" thermocycling E61 group that just keeps on keeping on.

    We sell it for $3300.00.

    The same machine in semi automatic form (rather than electronic / volumetric), we sell for around $2900.00.

    Both the above are RRP to anyone coming in off the street, before any kind of CoffeeSnobs discount is deducted.

    Others have machines competing in similar market sectors.

    These are work horses and as such dont have the look of the Veneziano, just rectangular stainless steel bodies. On the other hand with a 7 litre as compared to a 2.5 litre boiler for a far lesser price they offer a different level of capacity/ performance.

    Depends on what the individual is looking for.

    So, looks VS capacity/performance VS budget.....that covers points 2 & 4 of your question. Hope this helps with your, and others decision making processes.

    Regardz,
    FC.

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    Re: ECM Veneziano A1 Your Thoughts and Recommendat

    FC

    Many Thanks.

    Yes I do realize that there are other machines on the market that offer the same if not more for less money. Unfortunately where I live the selection of machines avail is well how do *iput it.....Dismal.

    I had been looking for something that would also suit our kitchen and basically the ECM was standing heads and shoulders above the rest; however I have to say here that the competition was incredible. I visited your web site a great deal and also many others. This is why it has been so hard.

    Our Boema twin we now have is on 24/7 and 12.5 liters of water is constantly being kept heated... ouch!!

    We constantly hear this machine is good this one isnt etc, and as to getting info from Choice magazine...(would you like instant with that? ;) would have been an even greater joke. So the running around and searching for reviews from a heap of sites led me to the conclusion that these machines all had their good points and bad points. So the next thing for us to concentrate on was the following;

    E61 group head,
    Decent sized boiler 2.0L + (We didnt want much bigger or smaller due to heat up times etc)
    Decent sized heating element
    volumetric control
    Non-Vibra-pump
    Commercial pump
    Plumbing in option
    Internal tank in case we go away
    Spare parts availability
    Aesthetically pleasing

    I was still at a loss and the ECM seemed to be the pick of the bunch, but that price tag worried the heck out of me, its a lot of money. However the decision is made and yes FC there are other machines out there and yes there will certainly be something that will either be better or cheaper, but that is always the course of history and this is the risk we take. However out of the two units we seriously looked at, Diadema and ECM the ECM has hit the top for what we actually want, however that being said the Diadema we looked at came in incredibly close to being chosen.
    Having a service agent withing a reasonable distance would not have ever been an issueas there arent any close by except for Sydney or Canberra.

    So alas we had to make a choice. So I suppose I can still change my mind untill I pick up the ECM, but I would say that it is going to be the ECM in the long run.

    But if any of you have any ideas or thoughts please let me know, Im open for your thoughts. (Tis a foolish man who closes his mind to the thoughts of others)

    Many thanks


    FB

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    Re: ECM Veneziano A1 Your Thoughts and Recommendat

    FB

    the A1

    great machine.

    we have an A1 and its a great unit. Unlimited power.

    total pro machine. ours is plumbed at home.

    had it 1 year-nothing touched or tweaked at all. (gasket)

    it looks stunning, all stainless helps. easy to clean etc.

    electronic dosing is the only way to go, once you have it you dont go back.

    my partner was a barista in France for 4 years and loves the machine also.

    i too did research. all these pro machines under the hood are similar.

    but stick with a brand and parts etc are always there.

    i too looked at others but some machines i think are down right ugly. and i dont want them in my kitchen. thats everybodys personal opinion though, but im not alone there. maybe a poll on ugly machines would be good. like cars looks do matter to me, but if they dont you can get cheaper similar machines.........................

    FB a demo A1 for $2400 well thats amazing. i paid a very good price for mine but a lot more than 2400.00 I can only assumed it was marked //scratched.....etc as that truly is a great price for a demo.

    We have just bought an elektra T1 electronic for our office. 6litre boiler, plumb in only.

    i think i want it in the home too, its amazing.

    good luck on your A1 purchase.

    i would think second hand $3000 or so minimum if its in perfect condition....but i would go for a new one and get your 10 percent. I wouldnt think many second hand units are around as my friend has one also and no one would sell as its not a machine you really need to upgrade from if its for home ////office use..

    really a great buy .

    cheers

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    Re: ECM Veneziano A1 Your Thoughts and Recommendat

    As mentioned to FB on the phone, if you can find a new A1 for 3850 or thereabouts, I would grab it. Just check to see it has not fallen of the back of a truck.
    The RRP of the A1 is now about $4470. So a 10% discount brings it in around the $4000. Still not a bad price.
    I have had one on my kitchen bench now for the past year and it has not missed a bean or should I say a beat. My A1 is in immaculate condition and has only ever bean used on softened and then carbon filtered water. I am sure it would have zero scale build up on any part of the machine.
    THe A1 would be hard to beat in the home. Apart from looking pretty damn good, it will pump out great espresso all day long. Oh and it is right up there in the milk texturing department as well. Not to mention it has a 10 amp plug.
    My machine has bean offered to FB. My reason for selling is quite simple, I need to make room for one of the original Faema E61s I just purchased.
    I was fortunate to be offered a set of original Faema E61s, that is a 1, 2, 3 and 4 group. All have bean restored. They look pretty awsome.
    If anybody is interested in a bit of history on their bench, I could be tempted to sell one of them!!!
    John

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    Re: ECM Veneziano A1 Your Thoughts and Recommendat

    I was fortunate to be offered a set of original Faema E61s, that is a 1, 2, 3 and 4 group. All have bean restored. They look pretty awsome.
    Sounds like an awesome aquisition there Pinot!! Ive always admired the look of them. :)

    Java "Youre making me want new toys!" phile

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    Re: ECM Veneziano A1 Your Thoughts and Recommendat

    The $2400 paid for the A1 to me was also an amazing price. However I must admit that I cannot confirm this to be true, the review of the A1 was on C..Geek.

    However the decision is made and hopefully in the next week or so Ill be visiting Pinot (aka John Doyle) and hopefully I will be installing our A1 by the end of the day... :-)

    As I had said Earlier there is so much to choose from but a decision has been made.

    John as made an offer that is quite generouse and I think I would be foolish to pass it up.....

    Will all things concidered I think that if one wants a machine that is going to be there for a long long time one must be willing to invest in quality right from the word go........

    John you lucky man... you have scored a nice family group of Faemas...... These were on our shopping list as well.... :)

    See you soon....... It was nice to see a pick of the machine with Pinot as well...... Many thanks for the Photo Andy....http://coffeesnobs.com.au/attachments/aroma1661.JPG



    Dont you just love new toys!!!!!!!
    The difference between Boys and men are the price of their toys........ ahhhh Yup... GUILTY as charged ;D

    FB

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    Re: ECM Veneziano A1 Your Thoughts and Recommendat

    Frenchbean

    i have read the review of the A1 on geek and PM ed the owner some months back.


    She did pay 2400 but 2400 US dollars. being a US website the review etc was done in US dollars and even at that price she admitted for reasons disclosed it was a bargain...................but she loves it..........



    ANYWAY dear pinot

    love to see one the the old faema ,s too

    could a pm or photo of them and price for a 1 or 2 group be sent to me........

    thanks

    marc

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    Re: ECM Veneziano A1 Your Thoughts and Recommendat

    FB,

    gosh yes, there are so many machines around, and many of them execellent performers.

    Good luck with your new toy, you WILL enjoy it. :)

    Regardz,
    FC.

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    Re: ECM Veneziano A1 Your Thoughts and Recommendat

    I looked at the Veneziano for quite a while before and after buying my Giotto and came to the conclusion that you are paying a hell of a lot primarily for drop dead gorgeous looks.

    In terms of features and performance I think you can get more for less, but then it wouldnt look as cool on the kitchen sink. 8-)

    Congrats on the new toy.

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    Re: ECM Veneziano A1 Your Thoughts and Recommendat

    Quote Originally Posted by Wired link=1121947091/0#11 date=1122427256
    I looked at the Veneziano for quite a while before and after buying my Giotto and came to the conclusion that you are paying a hell of a lot primarily for drop dead gorgeous looks.

    In terms of features and performance I think you can get more for less, but then it wouldnt look as cool on the kitchen sink. *8-)
    You might! *But in the case of Giotto vs Veneziano you are getting less for less. *The Veneziano is not only a better looking machine but it has more features and is even more commercial grade inside. *

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    Re: ECM Veneziano A1 Your Thoughts and Recommendat

    Quote Originally Posted by Monti link=1121947091/0#12 date=1122431629
    You might! But in the case of Giotto vs Veneziano you are getting less for less. The Veneziano is not only a better looking machine but it has more features and is even more commercial grade inside.
    Agreed. I wasnt comparing the Veneziano to the Giotto, rather to other similarly featured machines as per FCs comments.

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    Re: ECM Veneziano A1 Your Thoughts and Recommendat

    I was thinking about a Veneziano A1 at one stage. I like the idea of a commercial machine (in particular the rotary pump) that could run off a tank or be plumbed in. Cerebos in NZ sells them more cheaply than Australian vendors. Just another one of those pricing anomolies I suspect.

    In the end I have settled on a dual boiler (Reneka Techno) as I think HX at home is probably not for me and if I get on my high horse probably not ideal for any low volume use (at least if it is a commercial HX machine but the same applies to most domestics).

    If it wasnt Techno then Id also be lining up for a Veneziano A1. Good choice in my view.

    Looked for info on them and opinions for a month or two. Found little to nothing.

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    Re: ECM Veneziano A1 Your Thoughts and Recommendat

    AlMac

    How is your new machine

    i have read up on them some time ago, dual boiler so nice, but no steam and brewing at the same time which seems the only negative.

    Did you buy new, ? uses .... good price ??

    Like to hear your thoughts on the machine ?

    cheers

    marc

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    Re: ECM Veneziano A1 Your Thoughts and Recommendat

    Well a very pleasurable visit to Pinot aka. John Doyle and his lovely wife today has seen me return home with a very nice piece of machinery......but not before a lesson on the doís and doníts and the care of the A1 (which was very important to me)

    15-20mins later after filling the tank and allowing it to heat up, I was enjoying a very very nice espresso.

    Sweeter.............................YES
    Quality of brew Better.........YES
    Ease of cleaning.................Not too bad
    Quality..............................I am biased... But, YES itís great
    Satisfaction........................Immense

    All in all I consider myself to be very fortunate to have a wife that has allowed me to have such a great machine; BTW she got the first brew after the seasoning in. she was happy.

    Many thanks John for this, thereís not much I can really add.

    And the Book........."BARISTA TECHNIQUES by John Doyle" Ladies and Gentlemen this is an investment in Common Sense and with this you WILL gain more knowledge and become better at what you do. John the book is very good and very practical, and very easy to understand. Well Done.

    FB
    :) :) :) :)

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    Re: ECM Veneziano A1 Your Thoughts and Recommendat

    Quote Originally Posted by marc link=1121947091/15#15 date=1122810373
    AlMac

    How is your new machine

    i have read up on them some time ago, * *dual boiler so nice, * but no steam and brewing at the same time which seems the only negative.

    Did you buy new, ? uses .... good price ??

    Like to hear your thoughts on the machine ?

    cheers

    marc
    Marc - Reneka is breaking in a new boiler manufacturer for the Techno at the moment so I am still waiting to order.

    I decided that brew and steam at the same time is not an issue for me and Id prefer all efforts to go into temp stability anyway - a small sacrifice.

    I dont think there is a used market in Australia. My rough calculation is that the total cost landed and in Australia would be around $3,300 - which when compared with Veneziano A1 ($4,300) and Cimbali Junior D1 ($3,900) is very good. Conceptually they are different machines but I think the comparison is a reasonable one. All should produce excellent espresso when properly used. In the end not motivated by price - I want a dual boiler. If it wasnt dual boiler Veneziano A1 would be my choice.

    It is something I have been looking at for a while and saving for - so looking forward to it.

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    Re: ECM Veneziano A1 Your Thoughts and Recommendat

    Gday fellow coffee addicts,
    Newbie here, Ive had the A1 for about 3 mths now (A1 matched with Mini Mazzer) and from my experience with this machine, I agree with whats been posted.

    My intentions for buying this machine is one of satisfaction over time. Being that regardless of cost this is the last machine I intend to buy for the home. Over the last 5 yrs Ive continually upgraded from the $100 Breville thermoblock to the Super Auto Gaggia. (Super Autos are convenient, but the complexity of the unit means long term reliabilty is compromised-ie prone to a lot of down time at the repair shop).

    So along came the A1, This is the first HX machine Ive owned
    and the learning curve is still progressing. However, having said that, from first cup tried, to so far, The quality of espressos extracted have been very good (only managed about 5 god like coffees due to operator rather than unit, but still practising)

    The way I figure is that if you happen to own one of these machines, then you cant go wrong. Sure its overkill for home use but Hey, Who cares? I love this machine. If money is no object, then there is no machine as beautiful for the home (if you can spare the benchtop space for unit and grinder)

    The biggest difference I found to the information on the web to what I found was that the A1 has a removable reservoir and doesnt require feed tubes to be placed into the reservoir. There are also no metalic plates found in the reservoir(Low water level indicator- which uses electric current past between plates). The unit straight out of the box came supplied with double PF and single PF, one blank basket (for backflush) but no tamper( dont really mind as the company supplied units are usually a cheap plastic scoop/tamp double ended 20 cent unit) There is also a long large spring (dont know what this is for- any ideas?) and a length of silicon? tube( used for plumbing in I suppose)

    What can I say? this is my latest love!!!!! :)

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    Re: ECM Veneziano A1 Your Thoughts and Recommendations

    Hello everyone, I know this thread has been dead for several years but I have had my A1 for 4 months now and I love it even more than I did when I first "stole" it from a dealer for $599 US. The salesman misread the price card in their file and it was supposed to be $1599 but I got it for the quoted price from the owner of the store, he was a little upset with the salesman though!

    When I bought it, it had been sitting for a few years so when I tried to run it for the first time, the pump was frozen. I took the pump head off the motor and it broke free quite easily so I re-installed it and proceeded to back flush it and give it a good cleaning. All was well shortly and I was pumping out great espresso in short order.

    I have pulled about 1000 shots with it so far and the machine is a dream to work with. I did download the manual for it and did some looking for parts and discovered that there is no problem getting all the normal parts for the machine. Since I got her running for the first time in years, I have only had to replace the group head gasket. It started leaking about a month ago and when I went to remove the old one, it shattered into 5 large pieces as it was glass hard. I dont know how it was sealing but it was.

    I am not sure if you can buy this machine new anymore, I doubt it in the U.S. anyway but it is a fantastic buy in the used market. I upgraded to the A1 from an Oscar. I was quite happy with the Oscar until I saw the A1 sitting alone in a back room and it was love at first sight.

    :D

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    Re: ECM Veneziano A1 Your Thoughts and Recommendations

    Wow, let me know if that salesman is offering any other A1s at that price! :o Nice catch!

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    Re: ECM Veneziano A1 Your Thoughts and Recommendations

    Ditto, in fact if you can fill a container of them at that price Im sure we would have little trouble finding home for them here.

    Its a very pretty machine. *I have used a couple that ran a little warm but with some expert tweaking it works fine and it will provide years of great coffee.

    I know a CSr on the Gold Coast that has one in storage... I really think he should store it at the Snobbery, Ill look after it.

    8-)

  23. #23
    TC
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    Re: ECM Veneziano A1 Your Thoughts and Recommendations

    Yes- great machine and they are a collectors item these days- especially the S1 of which there are barely a handful in existence.

    They can be tweaked for great performance.

    FWIW, I have recently knocked back an offer of $morethanIpaidK on my souped up S1 and I dont think I could ever sell it. Its such a pleasure to use every time.

    At this stage, we will not be seeing the A1 or S1 again although there may well be some new A2 and A3 machines someday....

    2mcm

    2mcm

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    Re: ECM Veneziano A1 Your Thoughts and Recommendations

    mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
    MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM
    mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
    MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM
    mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

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    Re: ECM Veneziano A1 Your Thoughts and Recommendations

    Quote Originally Posted by 79757B696E7B764579757C7C7F7F1A0 link=1121947092/23#23 date=1233811231
    mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
    MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM
    mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
    MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM
    mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
    There are some good A2 machines around if the shop has upgraditis Craig ;)

  26. #26
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    Re: ECM Veneziano A1 Your Thoughts and Recommendations

    The Veneziano A1 machines are circa 2003

    But since no one has posted a photo of the A1s great looks I have taken the liberty to post a photo
    Hope no one minds



    KK

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    Re: ECM Veneziano A1 Your Thoughts and Recommendations

    Heres an S1 (not mine)


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    Re: ECM Veneziano A1 Your Thoughts and Recommendations

    Here is a shot of my prize just after I brought her home. The warming tray was sprung a little when I first got her as well as the cover over the water tank was missing and the cup rail was gone also. I have since fixed the cup warmer tray but the cup rail and water tank cover are still missing. Some day I will get around to either buying these parts or making new ones myself. My handle is more than a name, it is an occupation for me so metal working is no big deal at all.

    Those 1000 shots were all as doubles. On week days, *I normally pull a regular double shot to enjoy while I prepare a 6 shot 20 oz decaf latte for the hour long drive to my day job. When I get home there are usually similar shots pulled so that works out to 4 to 5 doubles in the morning and 4 to 5 in the evening or 8 to 10 doubles per day and about 4 or 5 doubles on weekend days so that works out to 48 to 60 doubles per week, say 50 for an average, x 4 weeks is 200 per month x 4 months comes up to about 800 + doubles since I bought the A1. The hot water tap has been put to good use for hot chocolate drinks for the wife as she does not care for coffee herself.

    I have been more than very happy with the machine and it is sad that it is out of production but that only means that the remaining machines will be loved all that much more!

    If I could find more of them at that price I am sure that I could turn them over very quickly but I got very lucky with this machine and I might stumble onto something in the future but who knows. I have a Mazzer SJ to feed my new Stainless Steel love and I did stumble onto a second SJ for $150 US that only needed a new set of burrs. So I have one for regular and one for decaf thus reducing the need to constantly re-adjust the grinder due to switching beans. I normally dont need to adjust for more than a few seconds on the pull from day to day, keeping the shots in the 25 to 30 second range.

    I have found that I love the auto dosing as well. This helps to keep my shots good as the volume of water is the same each time, I only need to worry about adjusting the grind to keep my shots right. This alone has helped the quality of my shots a lot! By reducing the variables it is easier to concentrate on the remaining steps. I have the water supply plumbed in and the drain runs into a 4 gallon water bottle. We just re-did the kitchen and I would have been in the dog house for sure if I drilled holes in the new $8000 counters! So the water line and drain line run out the left rear of *the machine, along the wall and to the right *where the counter ends. I have a salt charged water softener with a sediment filter and a carbon filter under the sink to keep the water clean and soft.

    EDIT:
    Yes the bottom gauge is working. We live on the top of a hill so we have low water pressure. The gauge shows 1 bar of inlet pressure. Though it is less than the book requires, it works fine and we have had no problems with the fresh water. The drain on the other hand, some times I forget that it is not a "real" drain and the bottle fills up past where the hose enters the bottle but not overflowing, this reduces the speed in which the water can drain and the water will overflow the small drain box under the drip tray. I have only done this twice though and I pay more attention to the drain bottle now.

    I do like it plumbed in much more than as a stand alone machine. I used it stand alone/pour over for about a month and that drip tray had to be plugged so that the water would not flow all over the counter. After having the very large drip tray on the Oscar, the tray on the A1 is a bit small, needing to be emptied nearly every other shot. On the Oscar, I could go all day without emptying it. Plumbed in is MUCH better! 8-)


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    Re: ECM Veneziano A1 Your Thoughts and Recommendations

    Great setup.
    I also like the fact you have a separate grinder for decaf.
    I would do that myself but i think the War Dept would court martial me ;D

    Mal

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    Re: ECM Veneziano A1 Your Thoughts and Recommendations

    My chief cook and bottle washer who often acts a a Bait layer and cash flow controller, who I love dearly...

    Would go pair shaped if I used even half of teh bench space that you have...

    While she likes coffee, home cooked and well prepared meals is a first in her books...

    I need lotto to build and extension to the kitchen to manage my Roaster (Fume hood), Reagent / Milk fridge and all the bench space for the equipment...

    PS. It looks great.

  31. #31
    Site Sponsor
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    257

    Re: ECM Veneziano A1 Your Thoughts and Recommendations

    I use my A3 Veneziano for my four cup a day habbit. I admit its a little bit of overkill especially considering it has a 22L boiler and I drink the coffee black. But it does looks great and produces some beautiful shots in the Roastery!

    That said however Im looking at putting the A3 Veneziano on the market within the next month. :( *Will publish on here when I do. *

    The space will then be used to stock a wider range of display model 1 group domestic/commercials so fellow snobs can play with.



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